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Thread: Restoration of Ichigo After Aizen's Defeat

  1. #31
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Lee.J.Baxter's Avatar
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    Re: Restoration of Ichigo After Aizen's Defeat

    Quote Originally Posted by Javiersansano View Post
    Regarding the misspelling, it is just that english is not my native language.

    Regarding the theme of my post, What I'm trying to say is that there is no "REAL" or "SUBSTANCIAL" difference between the different races of spirit beings. About your question, what I'm saying is that once Ichigo accepted his own sword in his inner world, you could say that there is no more zanpakutoh, nor shinigami, nor hollow, just one being. And the conciousnesses of Zangetsu and Ogichi are not sleeping, they merged with Ichigo, but Ichigo, and most of the Shinigami are so "accostumed" to having a separate entity with them, they consider that if said entity is gone, there is no more power. I think that Isshin recovered his powers, but because of that mental barrier, he thinks that his zanpakutoh is just a lifeless tool which retains the ability, but not the spirit, when the spirit is always with him. Ichigo will probably recover his powers the same way as Isshin, just faster, and will find himself with the same issue of "thinking" that Zangetsu is gone, and only the ability of his zanpakutoh remains, which would explain why Isshin did not use shikai, simply because he still "thinks" that shikai is a "REAL" concept, when it is nothing more than a failed approach to reach the original state zanpakutoh and shinigami have. The physical form of said state is the Sword merged with the hand, just like Aizen said. This might also imply that Tensa Zangetsu was never a bankai in the sense of the word that Byakuya has, but a more succesful approach to the original state, while the sealed and shikai forms are result of the chaotic state Ichigo had at first.

    Anyway, once Ichigo finds himself on the need of recovering his powers, he will, but wil mistakenly think that zangetsu is gone. Once Ichigo becomes aware that Zangetsu and himself have merged, that his sword does not answer to him because the spirit of the sword is no longer there, and that he has never been left alone, THEN Ichigo will go back to the Trascended state he reached through the training in Dangai.

    Let me put it this way. The sealed form is the best state the zanpakutoh can be in order to merge with the wielder. Shikai and Bankai are the independent approach that the swords take to unleash the whole power, but by being independent, it means that the wielder does not "release" himself. In Ichigo's case, his sealed form was innappropiate for that purpose, and the same his shikai. Against any other example, his bankai, being the "simplest" form possible, was the best form to merge with Ichigo, and the Final Getsuga Tenshou is what to others, would be both the Shinigami and the Zanpakutoh, as one, reaching a true "Bankai" . To summarize: Zanpakutoh in sealed, or more specifically, in its "simplest" form, plus shinigami, who can't evolve by itself

    I hope I made things more clear to you.
    I think I get the general idea of what you're saying; basically, Zangetzu and the inner hollow are just peices of Ichigo's soul. All that's happened now is that they've been glued back together into a single being. A shinigami is formed when part of a plus' soul splits off into a zanpakutou, a hollow is formed when part of a plus' soul splits off into a mask, and a vizard/arrancar is formed when part of a plus' soul splits off into a zanpakutou and mask. If you glue the parts back together, you get a plus again (or a human in Ichigo's case, being as he's not dead).

    Note: this also explains the hunger of shinigami and hollows; pluses haven't divided their soul, so all of their energy is part of their body. Shinigami/hollows basically shove half of their power into their mask/zanpakutou, whereas vizards shove 2/3 of their power into their mask and zanpakutou. The reason why Ichigo probably became so powerful with the FGT is because all of his energy was now put back into his body, allowing him to release as much as he wanted.
    Last edited by Lee.J.Baxter; October 21, 2010 at 04:10 PM.
    Predictions
    • Just as Quincies are evolved beings born from Humans, Shinigami are evolved beings born from Hollows.
    • Once Yhwach dies, Ichigo's Quincy powers will disappear and his soul will become unstable, causing the onset of Soul Suicide.
    • Yhwach isn't going to be the final antagonist.

  2. #32
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member conn-man's Avatar
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    Re: Restoration of Ichigo After Aizen's Defeat

    So what are the chances ichigo develops new powers? Should we believe that he's just gonna go back to the same old shikai and bankai? Or will things be different some how?

  3. #33
    Little tocs-Coming Soon 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member thornofcarrion's Avatar
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    Re: Restoration of Ichigo After Aizen's Defeat

    This thread needs revival . So we see a group of people who wants to restore Ichigo's powers. First of all, we do they want to restore Ichigo's powers? DO they want something in return? Most of all, does it mean they know about FGT and its effect? Has there been other shinigamis who had similarly lost powers? The introduction, of Xcution brings lots of interesting questions.

    About the method of reviving the powers, are we in for another inner-world journey. I have always believed that Zangetsu never left Ichigo. Rather he went into an exile sort of of state. Can anyone think of any other method? If Zangetsu still resides within Ichigo then I think he can not let him die. Perhaps a life threatening situation may entice Zangetsu to save Ichigo, as Ichigo's existence means Zangetsu's existence.

    Another method could be involving his Hollow. How I do not know, I am trying to make sense of this theory, if I can.

  4. #34
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Restoration of Ichigo After Aizen's Defeat

    I wonder if this people had anything to do with ishin regaining his powers. The manga has not actually given any indication that what happened with ishin was the result of a 20 year long natural process. It is entirely possible ishin got some help. Not sure how ichigo would regain his powers though. His situation is probably not even comparable to that of uryu considering uryu could at least see spirits when he lost his powers. Ichigo should also be pretty much unable to access his inner world for the most part....

    Wonder if the reiatsu orihime and uryu noticed around ichigo was actually the beginning of the process? I recall orihime's power said they awoke because orihime was constantly showered by ichigo's reiatsu so perhaps the same could apply to ichigo to some extent. Putting him under some reiatsu could perhaps be the trigger for him to unconsciously fight it back and regain it. I can't really think of anything else though.

    I don't think zangetsu died or anything of the sort and such a thing is not really possible in the least. Zangetsu/shirosaki is an inherent part of ichigo's soul. I don't think zangetsu could disappear without actually harming ichigo seriously. I think zangetsu right now is in a situation comparable to that when ichigo had yet to awaken his power. He could not hear zangetsu's voice, he could not use his power either... I do think this is more of a deeper thing though, his very reiatsu seems to have been sealed or lost.

  5. #35
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Restoration of Ichigo After Aizen's Defeat

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    I wonder if this people had anything to do with ishin regaining his powers. The manga has not actually given any indication that what happened with ishin was the result of a 20 year long natural process. It is entirely possible ishin got some help. Not sure how ichigo would regain his powers though. His situation is probably not even comparable to that of uryu considering uryu could at least see spirits when he lost his powers. Ichigo should also be pretty much unable to access his inner world for the most part....

    Wonder if the reiatsu orihime and uryu noticed around ichigo was actually the beginning of the process? I recall orihime's power said they awoke because orihime was constantly showered by ichigo's reiatsu so perhaps the same could apply to ichigo to some extent. Putting him under some reiatsu could perhaps be the trigger for him to unconsciously fight it back and regain it. I can't really think of anything else though.

    I don't think zangetsu died or anything of the sort and such a thing is not really possible in the least. Zangetsu/shirosaki is an inherent part of ichigo's soul. I don't think zangetsu could disappear without actually harming ichigo seriously. I think zangetsu right now is in a situation comparable to that when ichigo had yet to awaken his power. He could not hear zangetsu's voice, he could not use his power either... I do think this is more of a deeper thing though, his very reiatsu seems to have been sealed or lost.
    I believe that was retconned with the hogyoku giving(awakening) them powers.

    __________

    Personaly i hope the training is going to be very short ... I realy don't whant ichigo going trough the same stuff all over again just so he can get his powers back ...
    One thing is for sure, Ichigo is going to go trough some life threatening situation (like when he got his real shinigami powers).
    Also its most defenetly sure he is not going to get his god level abilities back (the ones just before FGT) or the bad guys/good guys wold have to be better then all the captains put togeder and that would be realy lame.
    The large room in xcution's home is most definitely for Ichigo's training.
    Now how would they actualy go about training him and how much of his powers he is going to get back is up in the air for me.

  6. #36
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member shaheer's Avatar
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    Re: Restoration of Ichigo After Aizen's Defeat

    lol the only way to get ichigos power back is to wack inoe to scream for ichigo : KUROSAKI KUN TASKE TE, and you will witness ichi going bankai from this inept state at ease.
    remember when he was shot down by cero obscura he came back from death hearing the shout of inoe, this inept state is nothing in compared to that

  7. #37
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Restoration of Ichigo After Aizen's Defeat

    Quote Originally Posted by shaheer View Post
    lol the only way to get ichigos power back is to wack inoe to scream for ichigo : KUROSAKI KUN TASKE TE, and you will witness ichi going bankai from this inept state at ease.
    remember when he was shot down by cero obscura he came back from death hearing the shout of inoe, this inept state is nothing in compared to that
    Well to be fair that was not Ichigo. It was a brainless hollow. Also Ichi was not dead, if he was dead his body would have dematerialize. He was just critically injured then using will power he's hollow side was able to take control and use that regeneration power they have.

    But yeah it would be interesting to see what would happen if Inoue would start screaming. Perhaps someone killing her or one of his friends in front of him ? Like when Naruto got 6 tails when Hinata "died". This is actualy very intersting. What would happen if Ichigo would get this level of stimuli?

  8. #38
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member shaheer's Avatar
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    Re: Restoration of Ichigo After Aizen's Defeat

    Quote Quote:
    But yeah it would be interesting to see what would happen if Inoue would start screaming.
    lol man you took me seriously? seriously if sth so generic happens then bleach literary has gone as downhill as it can get.

  9. #39
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Richo's Avatar
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    Re: Restoration of Ichigo After Aizen's Defeat

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    I don't think zangetsu died or anything of the sort and such a thing is not really possible in the least. Zangetsu/shirosaki is an inherent part of ichigo's soul. I don't think zangetsu could disappear without actually harming ichigo seriously. I think zangetsu right now is in a situation comparable to that when ichigo had yet to awaken his power. He could not hear zangetsu's voice, he could not use his power either... I do think this is more of a deeper thing though, his very reiatsu seems to have been sealed or lost.
    Remember how long Ichigo has been in coma after he lost his powers, I call that serious harm being done to his body that he could not even stay conscious....
    I honestly have no idea if powers would return to shinigami/hollow since Ichigo fused his hollow and zangetsu into 1 being. I wish to believe that Ichigo could get a entirely new zanpaktou and inner world but thats already been proven wrong by Isshin who shortly after recovering his powers used a Getsuga Tenshou on Aizen with great mastery and also had deep background information about his own zanpaktou and his son.

  10. #40
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Restoration of Ichigo After Aizen's Defeat

    Quote Originally Posted by Richo View Post
    Remember how long Ichigo has been in coma after he lost his powers, I call that serious harm being done to his body that he could not even stay conscious....
    I honestly have no idea if powers would return to shinigami/hollow since Ichigo fused his hollow and zangetsu into 1 being. I wish to believe that Ichigo could get a entirely new zanpaktou and inner world but thats already been proven wrong by Isshin who shortly after recovering his powers used a Getsuga Tenshou on Aizen with great mastery and also had deep background information about his own zanpaktou and his son.
    It's not that ichigo fused them or anything of the sort. They have been one from the very beginning. Back when shirosaki frst appeared we saw him going back into zangetsu and we know for a fact that when ichigo had the second round against shirosaki it was zangetsu who was a part of shirosaki. I think the last form we saw from shirosaki/zangetsu meant the power struggle between them was over as ichigo had control over the two of them. Anyways, zangetsu and shirosaki have always been essentially the same, seeing them fuse does not really change anything IMO.

    I didn't say ichigo didn't suffer serious harm though, I just think zangetsu wasn't actually ripped out of ichigo's soul. Zangetsu is an inherent part of ichigo's soul, he is not a different person from ichigo(he has his own personality though). Movies and fillers aside, I don't think it is actually possible for zangetsu to die without ichigo going through the same thing given that zangetsu in many ways is ichigo and is an inherent part of ichigo.


    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    I believe that was retconned with the hogyoku giving(awakening) them powers.

    __________

    Personaly i hope the training is going to be very short ... I realy don't whant ichigo going trough the same stuff all over again just so he can get his powers back ...
    One thing is for sure, Ichigo is going to go trough some life threatening situation (like when he got his real shinigami powers).
    Also its most defenetly sure he is not going to get his god level abilities back (the ones just before FGT) or the bad guys/good guys wold have to be better then all the captains put togeder and that would be realy lame.
    The large room in xcution's home is most definitely for Ichigo's training.
    Now how would they actualy go about training him and how much of his powers he is going to get back is up in the air for me.
    Aizen said that bit however the part about ichigo's reiatsu awakening their power was also stated. I don't think there necessarily is a contradiction here though. The orb does not create things out of nowhere. The orb has it in it to grant wishes however as aizen said for those wishes to be granted they have to be within the realm of possibilities of the user to begin with. In that sense, it is very likely ichigo's power and the orb played important roles here.
    Last edited by kkck; December 20, 2010 at 05:47 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  11. #41
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Richo's Avatar
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    Re: Restoration of Ichigo After Aizen's Defeat

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    It's not that ichigo fused them or anything of the sort. They have been one from the very beginning. Back when shirosaki frst appeared we saw him going back into zangetsu and we know for a fact that when ichigo had the second round against shirosaki it was zangetsu who was a part of shirosaki. I think the last form we saw from shirosaki/zangetsu meant the power struggle between them was over as ichigo had control over the two of them. Anyways, zangetsu and shirosaki have always been essentially the same, seeing them fuse does not really change anything IMO.
    I think you should reread my own quote again, since its obvious you did misunderstand my statement. Zangetsu and Shirosaki were never 1 being, either of them always made part of the dominant part of the 2 thus 1 being in control and the other dormant. What i mean with Ichigo fusing them into 1 being was that they are 1 and not 2 seperate "beings" anymore. I can only think of 1 example of such a situation which is:

    Spoiler show

  12. #42
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member DarkBankai's Avatar
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    Re: Restoration of Ichigo After Aizen's Defeat

    Quote Originally Posted by thornofcarrion View Post
    This thread needs revival . So we see a group of people who wants to restore Ichigo's powers. First of all, we do they want to restore Ichigo's powers? DO they want something in return? Most of all, does it mean they know about FGT and its effect? Has there been other shinigamis who had similarly lost powers? The introduction, of Xcution brings lots of interesting questions.

    About the method of reviving the powers, are we in for another inner-world journey. I have always believed that Zangetsu never left Ichigo. Rather he went into an exile sort of of state. Can anyone think of any other method? If Zangetsu still resides within Ichigo then I think he can not let him die. Perhaps a life threatening situation may entice Zangetsu to save Ichigo, as Ichigo's existence means Zangetsu's existence.

    Another method could be involving his Hollow. How I do not know, I am trying to make sense of this theory, if I can.
    Your post gives me an idea, and reminds me of what tensa zangetsu/shirosaki said to ichigo when he was training for the final getsuga tenshou,

    It was revealed that tensa wanted to protect above all else ichigo and that by learning the FGT he would no longer be able to protect ichigo.

    ~~ now as to what you referenced in your post, I also think that zangetsu never left ichigo, and resides within him. I also think back to when zangetsu told ichigo that it rains in his inner world when ichigos mind is troubled, and this was confirmed when ichigo entered the FGT training, his mind was underwater, because of all his lifelong crappy mental state that the once beatiful city was now underwater. SO..

    I think that zangetsu is dying inside ichigo, and that no mere near death experience will call out zangetsu, and have him save ichigo, ::: Rather I think that ichigo will need to have the near death experience just to get into his inner world, and from that point he will need to rescue zangetsu, from ...himself. Ichigos mindset lately, since he used the FGT must be just killing tensa zangetsu one day at a time. I think that once ichigo gets into his inner world and sees zangetsu suffering because of his own crappy mindset that he will re-ignite his spirit and will regain his power saving zangetsu from ..again, basically himself.

    IMO...


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  13. #43
    Little tocs-Coming Soon 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member thornofcarrion's Avatar
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    Re: Restoration of Ichigo After Aizen's Defeat

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkBankai View Post
    I think that zangetsu is dying inside ichigo, and that no mere near death experience will call out zangetsu, and have him save ichigo, ::: Rather I think that ichigo will need to have the near death experience just to get into his inner world, and from that point he will need to rescue zangetsu, from ...himself. Ichigos mindset lately, since he used the FGT must be just killing tensa zangetsu one day at a time. I think that once ichigo gets into his inner world and sees zangetsu suffering because of his own crappy mindset that he will re-ignite his spirit and will regain his power saving zangetsu from ..again, basically himself.

    IMO...
    I do not know if it will happen but I do like the part about Ichigo saving Zangetsu from himself. It can sure re-lit the resolve he had. But the question is, what exactly is FGT and why Zangetsu has to leave him afterward. In my opinion, Ichigo's power restoration should be directly linked with it.

  14. #44
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member DarkBankai's Avatar
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    Re: Restoration of Ichigo After Aizen's Defeat

    Quote Originally Posted by thornofcarrion View Post
    I do not know if it will happen but I do like the part about Ichigo saving Zangetsu from himself. It can sure re-lit the resolve he had. But the question is, what exactly is FGT and why Zangetsu has to leave him afterward. In my opinion, Ichigo's power restoration should be directly linked with it.
    as for what exactly is the FGT and why did using it cause him to loose his power, Im not entirely sure, Mostly i think that the FGT is not ment to be lasting, but like an apex of power that can be reached when needed by a shinigami with the right spirit and do or die situation facing him, like aizen trying to destroy everything and ichigo trying to save everything.

    If ichigos FGT were lasting, meaning that once achieved it stayed that way, then he would be uber powerful and who could challenge him? so i think that its fitting that he gets to use it but then looses it.

    but really the rest is up for speculation because only tite knows for sure.


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  15. #45
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Restoration of Ichigo After Aizen's Defeat

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkBankai View Post
    as for what exactly is the FGT and why did using it cause him to loose his power, Im not entirely sure, Mostly i think that the FGT is not ment to be lasting, but like an apex of power that can be reached when needed by a shinigami with the right spirit and do or die situation facing him, like aizen trying to destroy everything and ichigo trying to save everything.

    If ichigos FGT were lasting, meaning that once achieved it stayed that way, then he would be uber powerful and who could challenge him? so i think that its fitting that he gets to use it but then looses it.

    but really the rest is up for speculation because only tite knows for sure.
    Then again who could chalange Ichigo with his powers just before the FGT ? He was tanking Aizen's .. well everything before he used FGT. If Ichi's get's his full powers back (those he had just before FGT) then the villains would have to be as powerfull as all the captains put togeder.
    Now Aizen could have eventualy Kill him (if not for Urahara's seal and FGT) but that is because Aizen was immortal and Ichigo could not outlast him or do any damage to him (that Aizen can't regenerate). Anything else but Aizen with the hogyoku would be completly destroyed ... Hell Ichigo could have destroyed all of SS.

    Ichigo is going to get his powers back ... but he is not going to get that level back or Kishi would have to somehow increase all the other caracters powers to (to some insane level).

    Look at Isshin. He does not have his full powers back and i assume Ichi is going to get the same deal.

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