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Thread: Claymore Tournament Discussion Thread

  1. #61
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Fê - forever alone's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore Tournament Discussion Thread

    Irene is too fast for him, she might cut him till he runs out of youki, she can dodge his attacks, she can cut his neck - as we have seen - there're some soft spot there, so, she could cut it. She could cut his back, and I do think Irene is powerful enough to cut him, if she releases youki, that is.

    Galatea cut his hand - but I don't recall if she had released youki to do so - then I think Irene would chop him till he runs out of energy.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member killy-.-'s Avatar
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    Re: Claymore Tournament Discussion Thread

    Dauf was #3 and was weaker than Isley or Ricardo, who would win a battle between Ricardo and Dauf? if u said Ricardo then Irene would win as well

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member HegemonKhan's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore Tournament Discussion Thread

    speaking of Dauf vs Rigardo... next week dun dun dun (hehe)... we'll find out who will win

    ----------------------------------------------------

    I had to look it up:

    Galatea's arrival begins with ch. 44

    wow... Galatea is able to cut him quite a bit without releasing yoki!

    Pre-yoki release Galatea:

    1. ch 44 page 18. Galatea is piercing something of Dauf's, lol.

    2. ch 44 page 20. Galatea slices/cuts (but doesn't sever it) Dauf's left arm (specifically at his weak joint-elbow).

    3. ch 44 page 21. Galatea pierces his right soft hand/palm. She might have released some yoki however, but I'm not sure. I can't see if she has circular (silver eyes = under 10% yoki release) or cat-snake pupils (golden eyes = 10% or more yoki release)

    4. ch 44 pages 21-22. Galatea severs Dauf's right hand (at his weak joint-wrist)

    5. ch 45 page 13. Galatea says that all she can manage to cut/damage is Dauf's jaw.

    Yoki Release Galatea:

    1. ch 46 page 22. we see Galatea clearly with her snake-cat pupiled golden eyes, which means Galatea is releasing/raising her yoki now.

    2. ch 46 page 23. With her now released/rising yoki, she slices Dauf's cheek/jaw hinge.

    3. ch 46 pages 24-25. Galatea is now probably near 80% yoki release, as we are now seeing her "ugly face and body" (Masculine-ripped/bulked-muscled Galatea).

    4. ch 47 pages 8-9. Despite her "ugly face and body", Galatea was unable to damage Dauf further and instead she has Dauf's rod impaled through her stomach, and nearly out of yoki

    5. ch 47 pages 11-25. Galatea is still however able to help fight against Dauf.

    6. ch 47 page 20. Galatea "sheathes" her sword, lol, and instead uses Dauf's rods to impale into his hand to hold it to the castle's stone floor.

    7. ch 47 page 25. Galatea is out of the fight (but not Clare).

    8. ch 48 pages 21-22. Galatea uses the near last of her yoki to close Dauf's mouth.

    After the Dauf battle and/or after Clare "wins" and "slices/cuts" Riful:

    1. ch 49 pages 10-13. Galatea somehow musters to move and dodge Riful's ribbon-tentacles (whereas Clare gets possibly pinned for a second against what's left of the castle's stone wall).

    2. ch 49 pages ~24-30. Galatea recovers quickly, lol. Though we know she can regenerate too (but not as well as Deneve can). well, so does Clare and Jean recover quickly too, but they can't regenerate... meh... recovering quickly and regenerating seem to be separate things from this, lol.
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; December 09, 2010 at 11:02 AM.
    "The internet’s perfect for all manner of things, but productive discussion ain’t one of them. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional “live audience” quickly conspire to create a “perfect storm” of perpetual bickering." - Charlie Brooker

    "I hold the wolf by the ears, I am in a dangerous situation and dare not let go" -an old saying in Latin

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Goral's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryus View Post
    I see (...) Galatea being on par with Irene due to her rank being the same and for being able to solo Dauf for as long as she did while Clare went to find Jean. (...)
    Their rank wasn't (always) the same. Irene was a very, very strong #3 and she was #2 until Priscilla appeared. Galatea was "only" a strong #3. In a fight against Irene she would stand no chance not because she was much weaker in youki department (we have no idea how Irene's A compared to Galatea's A) but because all of her assets would mean nothing to the power of a QS. Her high factor by which her power increased would be much less worthy than Irene's AWAKENED arm. "In short quicksword is a technique where one arm goes berserk with full youma power and the rest of the body strives with all it's might to control it". Full power > Galatea's 50% youki release plus she can do it instantly while Galatea needs more time for her release. I won't even take into account that we don't even know that the factor by which Galatea's power increases is bigger than Irene's since it doesn't matter anyway in this case.
    Galatea's other asset - manipulation and youki reading would also mean nothing. Because QS is a berserk technique (i.e. there are random slashes since the arm goes berserk and the only thing you can do is to constrain it to not awaken completely) and all slashes are always at full power there is no way to detect them precisely not to mention manipulate them. Galatea couldn't manipulate Duff the moment he went all out. Irene is fighting always at full power. We also know that Galatea would stand no chance thanks to Clare. Clare managed to easily overcome much more powerful manipulation than Galatea's with her QS. Not only did she break the manipulation on her arm but on her whole body also. And she has much weaker mental stat (and much weaker QS) than Irene. Irene as a highly intelligent and mentally strong warrior would be impossible to manipulate even without her technique but plus QS Galatea would be pwned.
    Galatea's regeneration would be also worthless. Irene would manage to hack her and kill her in less than a second while Galatea would need hours to regenerate even a small part of her body. She couldn't regenerate one arm during her fight with Agatha so I can't see how it would help her DURING her fight.
    So in the end the only thing that could help her would be her youki release. If before the fight started Galatea released as much youki as she could without going over her limit she would have some chances (like 1:1000). But if she suddenly bumped to cloaked Irene just like Ophelia did she would be pwned even more easily since she had lesser combat stats than Ophelia even.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryus View Post
    Please recall Galatea held the same rank as Irene for a reason... and had very similar stats to her in the databook. In fact if you add up the points like a gpa (A+=4.5, A=4, B+=3.5, B=3, etc) Irene scored a 22.5 and Galatea scored a 22...
    You're right that going by that line of thought it would be like that. But let's look at their stats closer.
    They have roughly the same amount of youki but Irene is more agile and is stronger (unless Galatea releases her youki). Overall her combat stats are higher than Galatea's. Galatea has better youki sensing but it's worthless against QS so it wouldn't help her in a fight. Irene has higher leadership which is worthless in a 1vs.1 fight. And lastly Irene's mental stat is superior to Galatea's which would make manipulation that much harder to succeed (not to mention that Irene with her intelligence and good sensing would know immediately what was going on just like Riful, Clarice and Agatha knew).
    So while they are comparable even by comparing the stats Irene wins rather easily. And there is one last thing I forgot to mention. Irene is an offensive type of warrior and Galatea is defensive. And usually offensive warriors have higher ranks than defensive warriors (we don't know any defensive #1 or even #2 warrior). That's because in combat more powerful attack is more valuable than being able to regenerate after the fight. Galatea didn't have Deneve's ability to regenerate instantly (and besides ABs we don't know any other being that could do sth like that). Not to mention that to become defensive warrior when your adrenaline rises you run away instead of fighting which shows you're not fit for battle from the start. Defensive warriors can overcome their fears with time but they'll always be less fit for battle than average offensive type.

    BTW, I doubt that Galatea would go with organization's orders and try and kill Teresa if she was the leader or a member of this mission. Once she would see that Teresa protected Clare and that Clare cared about Teresa I think she would retreat and either face the punishment or desert from the organization. She was too soft when it came to children and too good of a character. That's one of the reasons why I like Galatea much more than Irene :P.
    Last edited by Goral; December 12, 2010 at 07:23 AM.

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  7. #65
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member HegemonKhan's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore Tournament Discussion Thread

    Irene could arguably be a rank 1 too, and only wasn't so because of the two "monsters"/rank S Claymores, Teresa and then Priscilla, taking or overshadowing the rank 1 spot from her

    Also, for those of you who think Ophelia was more powerful then Galatea:

    Ophelia > Galatea

    Irene utterly pwns Ophelia. (Ophelia, Sophia, and Noel couldn't even see Irene's Quick Sword but Clare could, hehe)

    Irene > Ophelia

    therefore:

    Irene >> Galatea

    (Irene is far superior or more powerful than Galatea)


    It seems at least Agatha's attacks (tentacles) are fast for her size, according to Galatea:

    ch 75 page 25

    ---------------------------------------

    anyone want to comment about the new winners of their Fights?

    Yuma, Deneve, Miria, and Galatea


    Anyone want to comment about the new winners, and any of the Fights that we have had? Or to continue discussion of the Fights we have had?
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; December 18, 2010 at 06:31 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    "The internet’s perfect for all manner of things, but productive discussion ain’t one of them. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional “live audience” quickly conspire to create a “perfect storm” of perpetual bickering." - Charlie Brooker

    "I hold the wolf by the ears, I am in a dangerous situation and dare not let go" -an old saying in Latin

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    Re: Claymore Tournament Discussion Thread

    So... the tournament is over, right? Teresa will beat Isley, Luciela will beat Rigardo, Miria will probably beat Galatea, and Deneve will likely beat Yuma, but it doesn't matter, because Luciela will make it to the final and lose to Teresa, because if Teresa beat Priscilla then there's NO WAY Luciela stands a chance. No one remaining can beat Teresa, not if neither Priscilla nor the Destroyer could.

    Teresa is busted.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member HegemonKhan's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore Tournament Discussion Thread

    we're still going to have the 4 fights, Teresa vs Isley and Miria vs Galatea should be interesting, and maybe Rigardo vs Luciela. Though, I don't see Yuma having much chance against Deneve, lol.

    More people chose to vote for Teresa so she won, she was chosen by us to be "busted". There were many who voted for Priscilla and the Destroyer to win, yet Teresa was voted as the winner for both of those Fights. Priscilla or the Destroyer could have "busted" Teresa, if more of us had voted for them and not for Teresa.
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; December 20, 2010 at 04:05 AM.
    "The internet’s perfect for all manner of things, but productive discussion ain’t one of them. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional “live audience” quickly conspire to create a “perfect storm” of perpetual bickering." - Charlie Brooker

    "I hold the wolf by the ears, I am in a dangerous situation and dare not let go" -an old saying in Latin

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    Re: Claymore Tournament Discussion Thread

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about how busted Teresa is. If anything I wish the characters had been tiered so the final four weren't so lopsided. Teresa, Destroyer, and Priscilla should've been in different brackets, so that votes get more interesting, not less. I'm simply saying Teresa will beat Isley. Some people might vote for Isley. Not enough. If Priscilla and Destroyer couldn't beat Teresa, then no new arguments are going to come up that suddenly allow characters weaker than Teresa to beat her. I'm looking forward to Miria vs. Galatea. That's the single most interesting remaining fight.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member HegemonKhan's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore Tournament Discussion Thread

    the final 4 are a bit lopsided. At least Deneve vs Yuma is, imo. As for the other 3 they could be interesting, Teresa vs Isley, Galatea vs Miria, and Luciela vs Rigardo. Well, Luciela vs Rigardo might be interesting, or it might be like Deneve vs Yuma.

    If Teresa, Destroyer, and Priscilla were in different brackets, they would've eliminated those brackets' contestants. And we'd get the final 4 as those 3, so we just put them against each other to begin with.

    There were some contestants in each bracket to make the final 4 interesting, however some of those contestants didn't get to the final 4, such as Raftela and others. I did not expect Yuma to be in the final 4

    -------------------------------

    about the Teresa vs Isley upcoming Fight:

    while some of us voted for Teresa to win over Priscilla and the Destroyer, and thus Teresa would (presumably) easily win over Isley too, however not all of us did vote for Teresa. So, this Fight allows all those people to consider whether they think Teresa could win against Isley. So, it works out nicely.

    and there's no reason why those who voted for Teresa over Priscilla and the Destroyer can't post why Teresa would pwn Isley too

    --------------------------

    the upcoming Galatea vs Miria Fight, could be a really big one too. Lots of fans on both sides, laughs.

    -------------------------

    Luciela vs Rigardo upcoming Fight could be interesting... we'll have to see if it turns out to be or not.

    ------------------------

    Also, I think the Christmas holidays has interfered a bit with participation of the Claymore Tournament a bit last week, and probably this week too as everyone's getting ready for it.
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; December 21, 2010 at 02:57 AM.
    "The internet’s perfect for all manner of things, but productive discussion ain’t one of them. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional “live audience” quickly conspire to create a “perfect storm” of perpetual bickering." - Charlie Brooker

    "I hold the wolf by the ears, I am in a dangerous situation and dare not let go" -an old saying in Latin

  14. #70
    MH Senpai MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Bugzee's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore Tournament Discussion Thread

    I've been following this tournament very closely but have failed to post yet. Don't ask why. I have no excuse. ><

    Anyway, back to my main point; I've enjoyed reading and following all the fights and stages so far but ONE THING I believe is missing in this tournament is the lack of or the unforseen advantage of choosing more than one location for each fight/stage. The environment and scenery of each fight/battle will greatly effect and influence each character's capabilities. I think different locations (different terrains/conditions as well) would increase the overall entertainment and discussion of these tournaments.

    If we are slowly going to see future tournaments being held for the Big 3 (I know Bleach is already in the works) then I would strongly urge the staff to consider implementing this idea. Off course, there will be some limitations and you guys won't be able to make said locations too detailed and have too many stipulatons and so forth but I think it would help make the big 3 tournaments A LOT MORE enjoyable. Discussions wouldn't simply be what power one character has, how to counter attack then come up with a basic fighting tactic and go in for the kill...eventuallly.

    Character powers and personalities will be discussed, balanced and weighed up with the location/environment and how it can effect the end result...and eventual winner. ><

    If it's not too late, I would love to see this being "tested" if you like in the Claymore tournament. I know I'm referring *mainly* to the possible future tournaments but I thought this would be the best place to post. ^^

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    Re: Claymore Tournament Discussion Thread

    Thanks for the suggestion Bugz. I will copy some portion of your post and paste in Bleach Tournament Discussion thread.

    I can't specifically remember that terrain or specific location have played a role in Claymore battles in manga. Not that I remember, wouldn't mind if someone refresh my memory.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member HegemonKhan's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore Tournament Discussion Thread

    In my opinion, for Claymore manga at least, such real-world factors really don't come to play in it, as we're dealing with supernatural powers that far over-ride these real-world factors.

    Real world factors, that in my opinion, never come/came into play in Claymore manga, and my reasoning as to why/how (not) so:

    1. Environment (battle field location/selection, fighting on your "turf" or not-the enemies' turf)

    There's really only five instances that I can recall where this came into play.

    first, is trainee Clare using the building's cover to put her deception-plan into action. This was significant in allowing Clare to kill the normal yoma. However, as a ranked Claymore, use of such environment really played no significant role in the manga, as we have a great example of that being the case in the Pieta battle. In the Pieta battle, at its start/beginning, the Claymores were hiding in the buildings, and yet this was pointless as they give off yoki and the ABs could sense it, as was seen with them killing off some of the Claymores in the buildings, knowing right where they were. So, this environment strategy actually backfired a bit on the Claymores. It's hard to use the environment to hide/sneak attack in the Claymore world, as there's yoki which can be detected/sensed. It's like me trying to hide behind something from a snake when it has infra-red (heat) sensing/"seeing" or any animal which has a good sense of smell. Regardless of hiding behind something and being unable to be seen via vision, I can still be "seen" by my body's heat and/or my body's odor/smell.

    second, is Clare using her knowledge of the area (how'd she have knowledge of this area? is this area the same area of when she was a human child with Teresa?), to fake her death against Claymore Ophelia, by falling off the cliff into the river below. But, as can be seen, this had nothing to do with an actual battle performance, but rather to do with escaping from the battle with Claymore Ophelia.

    third, is using the "spiderman" male AB using the Paburo Mtns as his "turfed" (advantaged) battle selection/location (environment). This seemed to help him a bit, as he could jump onto the cliff face, and the poor Claymores only had a narrow cliff ledge to fight on. However, Deneve seemed to have no problem getting back up to this narrow cliff ledge after "falling to her death" off of it to the ground/river below. And, he was fast enough to fight perfectly fine without having used this environment to his advantage. Only Miria using her Phantom Step was faster then him. So, I'm saying the the "help" it gave him, it was really extremely minor and non-significant.

    fourth, is the battle between Dietrich and her team vs the male AB, which Deneve and Helen were first watching above on the cliff and then helping out in it. I can't remember off-hand if moving to the lake was to the Claymore's advantage or the male AB's advantage, and am too lazy to go back and look it up at the moment. But, it was to one side's advantage, that I know is correct. So, in this single instance, the environment, came into slight play, but really barely at all actually. They weren't that hindered by it, despite the "advantage and disadvantage" to each side.

    There is the Dauf battle against Clare, Jean, and Galatea. However, this swung in favor between the two sides, lol. It actually helped Dauf more then the Claymores, but when Jean then appeared, it was to the Claymores' advantage. However, regardless this "advantage" to both sides, was extremely minor and non-significant as well.

    2. Personality/behaviors

    For the most part, these really don't effect the actual battle and the performances of the fighting characters. Clare's Impulsiveness doesn't hurt her intelligence nor her rational thought nor her decision making nor her combat performances. Claymore Priscilla's rage didn't hurt her combat performance at all, if anything her anger/rage helped her. People like to idealolgically spout that anger/rage is bad for fighting, but that was never seen in the Claymore manga, with Priscilla against Teresa, and I'd argue it's not true in real life as well. Yes, people will point to boxing, and how many boxers say that anger is bad in boxing. But, when you're angry, you actually get a lot of physical advantages, and there's actually no negative physical effects on your brain or its decision making/judgment, despite the (wrongly) popular notion of believing so. All anger/rage does is focuses all your brain's activities/thoughts on the fight, which actually is a good thing, you're actually thinking even more clearly/rationally, and NOT less! Also, that level of positive physical benefits/advantages from the adrenaline increasing your body's physical performance abilities, from speed to strength to reaction time to focus to etc, and the rage-anger increasing your aggressiveness makes you actually being the very dangerous one, that is near impossible for your opponent to actually counter unless he's even more "enraged". Yes, you've been shown how angry people flail stupidly around, and because of this, yes it definately hurts them. But, its not the angry that does, it's their flailing around stupidly. Well, there's many people who when they get angry, don't stupidly flail around, they fight more intelligently more perfectly and more less-flawedly, and not less intelligently less perfectly and more flawedly.

    3. combat skills/training

    all Claymores have top level combat skills and training, and if they don't, then their supernatural power levels not only make up for it, but far over-ride what would in the real-world make a difference between combat skill levels.

    Priscilla, Miata, and the trainee Awakening Twins were said to not have the amount of training that the other Claymores have had. However, Priscilla displayed PERFECT combat skills against Teresa. Miata's untouchable when she's focused/ordered by Clarice to attack the correct opponent as her super sense allows her "instinctual training" abilities, that makes her just as good as those more "trained" Claymores. The trainee Awakening Twins obviously weren't completely trained, yet they fought near perfectly or at least very well against Phantom Miria. Priscilla lost not because Teresa had better combat skills (like swordsmanship or combat experience), but because Teresa had a greater power level and thus greater PHYSICAL"skills" (abilities = strength, speed, attack quickness, reaction time, and etc), and not to mention her ELYSA as well. Miata was untouchable because of her power level (rank 1) and her uber senses, albiet her "immaturity" greatly degraded her (especially in her obeying Clarice's order blindly or Clarice herself not realizing to order Miata to attack Agatha first, instead of foolishly solely Galatea like she did). Only the trainee Awakening Twins were actually hurt (they would have lost, been decapitated easily, if Miria had the "stomach" to do so) by their lack of training. However, they were in fact still trainees, so duh... they lack training... lol.

    I'll say it again, ALL Claymores have TOP LEVEL combat training. There's really not any significance in training/combat skills between any Claymore. With the exception of Clarice and the minor/"nobody" Claymores, ALL Claymores are just as combat skilled as Teresa herself. So, "ALL" Claymores have exceptionally perfect combat skills, and there's really no significant difference between them. The Org trains ALL of its Claymores very very very well!
    "The internet’s perfect for all manner of things, but productive discussion ain’t one of them. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional “live audience” quickly conspire to create a “perfect storm” of perpetual bickering." - Charlie Brooker

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    Re: Claymore Tournament Discussion Thread

    I have a question. If you make more tournaments, ¿Where can we propound some interesting fighting?

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member HegemonKhan's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by su5so View Post
    I have a question. If you make more tournaments, ¿Where can we propound some interesting fighting?
    We aren't doing an official Claymore tournament again. However, you can continue to discuss it in this thread, such as the Fights between the final 4 winners, which we decided not to finish/do, thus our apologizes, but we had to end it and omit these last fights between the 4 winners. But, again these would be great to continue to discuss in this thread.

    Also, if you want to propose or propound (<- I learned a new vocab word, lol) more fights and discuss them, there's the Fantasy Fights Thread, which is like a "non-official Claymore Tournament". here it is, so you don't have to look for it:

    Fantasy Fights Thread

    ------------

    But, there will be tournaments coming up for some of the other manga sections, so if you're intereste and/or know these manga sections, you can participate in these as well.

    Lastly, there's also the Manga Awards that is in progress right now as well too.
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; December 27, 2010 at 02:16 PM.
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    Thumbs Up Re: Claymore Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by HegemonKhan View Post
    We aren't doing an official Claymore tournament again. However, you can continue to discuss it in this thread, such as the Fights between the final 4 winners, which we decided not to finish/do, thus our apologizes, but we had to end it and omit these last fights between the 4 winners. But, again these would be great to continue to discuss in this thread.

    Also, if you want to propose or propound (<- I learned a new vocab word, lol) more fights and discuss them, there's the Fantasy Fights Thread, which is like a "non-official Claymore Tournament". here it is, so you don't have to look for it:

    Fantasy Fights Thread

    ------------

    But, there will be tournaments coming up for some of the other manga sections, so if you're intereste and/or know these manga sections, you can participate in these as well.

    Lastly, there's also the Manga Awards that is in progress right now as well too.
    Thanks for resolving my doubt, I keep reading and commenting on the forum.

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