Claymore Tournament Discussion Thread

[HegemonKhan]

that's awesome fan-arts from both of you!

Love Helen's face, as it has that "Helen look", great eyes and mouth and hair, it really gives her, her silly-playful-naughty-drunk look, hehe.

Love Galatea too, though I can't make any comments as they'd be inappropriate... hehe, other than awesome fan-art of Galatea! actually, for some reason... I'm thinking of a news reporter when I look at your Galatea pic...

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if you want a quick look at part of the claymore sword, just look at my avatar pic (it's Clare's hand and sword)

[daichi383]

I've decided since i've got time im gonna redo deneve if thats ok :P

[TheNewHorde]

u know... i just remembered. i think i drew a pic of Miria a few years ago, should i pull it out and put it in for the claymore competition too?

well, it's kinda bad though, and it was a direct copy off one of the manga covers too. think it's probably better off just to use official art than my old Miria. -___-

speaking of which, is she taken yet? *clicking back to front page to check*

[HegemonKhan]

daichi:

if you can get it done today, then sure you can redo it.

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TNH:

Miria is already taken, but if you want you can do her too, in case the other person doesn't provide her today. However, if the other person does, we're using his/her fan-art cause he/she had Miria, and we thus wouldn't use yours. Though, if you already think that your Miria isn't that good, you can not do her, up to you. But, remember we're taking the other person's fan-art if he/she provides it.

[TheNewHorde]

Finished Alicia.

http://thenewhorde.deviantart.com/ar...eart-186871471

sry none of it is shaded or colored, not very confident in doing that and doing it takes a huge amount of time for me since I'm not that skilled.

edit: actually, heck no. there's some changes I want to make to Alicia, hold on...

edit: changes made. ok, this is what i'm using for the fanart. (same link)

[HegemonKhan]

Awesome Alicia, hehe.

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*The Claymore tournament is starting today, Mon. Nov. 22!*

(Let the massive yoki flows be released! Muhahaha!)

[TheNewHorde]

Galatea and Miria in the same sub division?

Alicia and Teressa in the same sub division?

oh sh*t, now I gotta choose between voting for my fav or my own drawings, lol.

[HegemonKhan]

Well, it's the Claymore Tournament, you choose on who would win the matches, for this

As much as you (and we) like your (and everyone's) fan-art(s), you (we) don't use that to decide on your (our) vote(s), lol

[wickedsmile]

Hi HK:

Please remove my post if it's out of line or out of place in this thread. I was wondering if anyone who participates in the tournament could draw a portrait of Galatea or Cynthia, while giving her a true to life appearance. On Deviantart.com, a person by the handle of Lily did this for Phantom Maria with unbelievable success. She also did the same for Clare, Rigaldo, Teresa and Galatea but I find her interpretation of Miria, the most successful. It's just different to have one of our favorite characters come to life.

WS

[HegemonKhan]

Since you're asking/requesting for the participants of this Claymore Tournament for a "life-like?" pic of Galatea, I'll leave it up.

Though, I'd suggest try going to this site's main page, and scrolling down (to the art section) and looking into and making a request in the appropriate section of the art threads on this site, or just going to other sites with artists (or specifically Claymore artists) and ask/request around.

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any predictions of who's going to win the entire tournament?

any comments about the characters whom were chosen and whom weren't included?

Of the characters whom weren't included, how'd you think they would do?

[Ryus]

They wouldn't fight each other... ever. Well, pretty much no matter what minus mind control or some other loop hole situation. Hell, during the Deneve vs Tabitha fight Helen stopped Tabitha not Deneve... So even when trying to stop her friend from going at it she didn't stop Deneve but her taget, I just can't ever see them fighting.

[HegemonKhan]

They wouldn't fight each other... ever. Well, pretty much no matter what minus mind control or some other loop hole situation. Hell, during the Deneve vs Tabitha fight Helen stopped Tabitha not Deneve... So even when trying to stop her friend from going at it she didn't stop Deneve but her taget, I just can't ever see them fighting.

that can be said about most of the Claymores and Ghosts, lol. This Claymore Tournament obviously has to ignore this. Just pretend they'll fight each other. Pretend that they won't actually die, even if they kill the other, or pretend it's an extremely intense and real spar match.

but at the same time, all the more so, isn't it awesome to have them "fighting it out" to see whom would win?, *grins*

anyways, can/could you please provide an explanation for your vote? (you can edit it into your post, instead of making a new one, or you can make a new post)

[Ryus]

that can be said about most of the Claymores and Ghosts, lol. This Claymore Tournament obviously has to ignore this. Just pretend they'll fight each other. Pretend that they won't actually die, even if they kill the other, or pretend it's an extremely intense and real spar match.

but at the same time, all the more so, isn't it awesome to have them "fighting it out" to see whom would win?, *grins*

anyways, can/could you please provide an explanation for your vote? (you can edit it into your post, instead of making a new one, or you can make a new post)

Yeah... tell that to Tabitha and Deneve. Never fight just cause they're allies... Now Helen and Deneve and more then just allies but the best of friends, so they unlike the rest of the ghosts just wouldn't fight each other to the point one would clearly win.

Sorry, but these two would just never fight baring that loop hole situation and if it did arise we'd need to know the details of why they where fighting for a proper scenario. I mean choosing these two to battle is about as pointless as asking who'd win Clare vs Teresa if Teresa came back from the dead in goddess form but Clare had achieved her goddess form too and where to duck it out.

Point being they just care too much about each other to ever go all out against each other in a fight. Say what you want about ignoring this clear logic of this but without a scenario how are we to judge which one of the two would be the least likely to not hold back... this is a major and repeated theme found through out Claymore, BEING FIT FOR BATTLE, and against a loved one how can one be fit enough to go all out against them?

Sure Helen could drill sword Deneve in half from behind with and extended limb like she did against Isley then finish Deneve off before she can heal, or Deneve could take a glancing blow from that attack and chop off Helen's arm but for these two to fight one could only win if they went all out against each other and that situation will just never arise minus an awakening in which case there stats above would have changed. They are just too close to each other in terms of power and they like each other way to much to ever go that full out against one another. With out a loop hole situation they'd have a short meaningless battle like Clare vs Miria in the north with both traded blows but will stop once they realized the other was about on par with them... thus making it a draw and a pointless argument. If one was clearly stronger than the other than one might be willing to defeat the other safely (like Miria vs the org warriors) but that isn't the case here and there bonds are especially deep, even by Claymore standards. I mean Deneve even made a plan on dying together for crying out loud and later Helen tried to make sure it would happen.

[Goral]

Eh, you're making a problem where there isn't one Ryus. It's just a game, it doesn't have to make sense and the fights don't have to be probable. We're assuming here they would fight and that's it. But if you really need a reason for them to fight you can imagine that Raftela mind f**ks both of them making them think they're fighting someone else (Riguald/Rubel/some Claymore they would think killed Miria). In fact we may see sth like this in coming chapters ;P.
Or they could fight over a guy (Raki/Galk/Cid) or Helen can become schizofrenic.

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Copied from here:

As stated above...

Galatea was #3 due to Beth being #2... her stats in the databook are on par with Irene a demoted #2 and well above Sophia's the demoted #3.

Raphaela was a demoted #2 tied in power with a number #1 so why even mention her? You know as well as I that is just a bad example.

As to Ophelia nothing proves that she is stronger than Audrey... so why go calling it a fact. You gotta prove your claims or admit that it's just your take on the matter. Irene raped Ophelia and just below her in ability was Sophia, sure Ophelia would probably beat Sophia but sword technique would be a factor here since Sophia has no technique. Who's to say the gentle sword can't give Audrey a chance against Ophelia with the ripping sword? Fact is there's just too many unknowns to say with certainty Ophelia is clearly better than Audrey and even if she is nothing disproves that it wasn't Clare's generation being stronger than previous generations. Your claims are stronger than the facts you have backing them, recall Clare's gen was preparing for an all out war when other gens where solely lab rats in no need of extra training. Now look I agree Audrey would likely lose to any of those you mentioned but none the less that doesn't prove she isn't a solid #3... we have only 2 skewed generations to compare her too and there where 70 plus other generations with untold #3's in each. Or maybe... she's only #3 since Mitia was too unstable maybe she was made #4 until she became more stable, thus making the #4 by default #3 since they needed someone to take on the duties of #3 but we have no facts to support such a claim and calling a whole generation weak that's been hinted at not being such is just foolhardy.

As to Renee vs Old Miria... I'd call that one close but side with Renee. Miria has the phantom move sure but it's a limited technique back then and Renee was fast too and being an eye likely had yoki precognition and therefore could defend against any attack Miria threw at her and then defeat her once she tired out. Miria would have to be very cleaver and lucky to win that fight.

As to Dietrich vs Flora I'd side with Flora but only due to Flora's sword technique. Stat wise I feel Dietrich is superior (can you see Flora keeping up with Deneve and Helen and then fight amongst Hellcats and AFs and survived...)

As to Jean vs Nina, I'd side with Nina. As odd as that sounds Jean showed no swordsmanship beyond drill sword and Nina could use shadow chaser long before Jean could rotate her arm enough to use drill sword.

I just reread what Rubel said and I stand by my earlier statement... he stated Miria had grown vastly stronger and that was to sole reason for #3 and #5's defeat in reply to a MiB stating this gen was weak and therefore any mention of this gen being weak was inaccurate. It was Yagi's way of telling us this gens warriors are just as strong as any normal generation but the ghosts had just gotten WAY stronger.

@Ryus
In chapter 85 Deneve implies that MiB might be lacking manpower and IMO that encounter, the one in the North (were Nina and others were rescued), Riful's encounter and Miria's, all suggest that they were more focused on making AFs and better soul-linked warriors than regular warriors.

As for my examples, it's still a valid argument. Warriors #3-5 were stronger than Audrey and it doesn't matter that Raphaela was special. It only shows that this generation was stronger than current one and that was my point.

As for Ophelia - many things prove she was stronger than Audrey. Irene was definitely a better warrior than Ophelia but the latter had potential to surpass her. Her combat stats, i.e. youki, strength and agility were at A level, better than Irene's and Galatea's, however she wasn't even #3 with those stats (most probably because she was mentally unstable, similar to Miata's case).
Yeah Galatea fought against Duph and managed to survive - that much and at the same time only that. She couldn't harm him even at 50% youki release state (or even more) after her manipulation skill lost effectiveness. Duph had the same injuries when Clare was heading toward Jean and after she came back, he didn't even make a sweat (at least from what I saw Galatea didn't impress him).
On the other hand Ophelia fought single digit AB at 30% of her strength - that's a big difference (especially if you take into account how much stronger Galatea would become after releasing youki, suggesting that if she didn't do it at the start of her fight with Ophelia she would more likely loose).
As for Irene vs. Ophelia, Galatea wouldn't stand a chance against her either. She would even have lesser chance than Ophelia because she wasn't as agile as her and probably wouldn't even survive Irene's attack (the fact alone she survived such attack even though she was an offensive warrior tells us what a monster she was). In Ophelia vs Galatea fight my money would be on Ophelia too. She was crazy but wasn't stupid and manipulation trick would be probably useless against her, especially if she used the rippling sword.
Duff couldn't move much and Galatea managed only to make shallow cuts on him (and only on specific, non-armored places). Sure she didn't have that much space to dodge but it was enough for someone of her size to do it. Galatea at the time she fought with Duph had only manipulation skill, without it and without releasing youki she couldn't dodge his attacks and Dauph could only aim by twisting his neck. If it was in opened space it would be much more difficult to fight him.
In Ophelia vs AB from Gonahl fight we don't know anything about this AB, beside she was really powerful (definitely former single digit). Clare needed only a glimpse of her strength to know she doesn't stand a chance, after training with Irene she didn't budge when fighting Duph.
Although he was big, he wasn't slow compared to Claymores and his burping had enormous speed. We saw that even though Galatea knew he was aiming at her she didn't manage to dodge because she was too slow and as I wrote above he aimed only by twisting his neck. By moving his entire body it would be more difficult for Galatea to handle the situation.
Possibility of getting behind him wouldn't increase Galatea's chances since she wouldn't be able to cut through his armor (she got behind him at least once and it didn't make much difference). Not to mention if she got behind him Dauph would have serious problem to turn his body.
Ophelia is the one being underestimated, sure AB managed to twist her neck but her strength was substantial. How many claymores would have still their heads on their necks if sth like that happened to them ? If someone is of superior strength than even "delicate" move like that could be deadly, meaning Ophelia was really strong and tough.

So unless you would like to change your opinion and say that Galatea was roughly equal (or weaker) to Audrey, Ophelia being stronger than Audrey is a fact. Your argument that Ophelia was raped by Irene is no argument since the same would happen to Galatea (especially if she foolishly attacked cloaked Irene, she wouldn't even see Irene's attack coming and even if she did she wouldn't be fast enough to react since she couldn't even dodge Duff's pole).

As for Renee vs. Miria, be honest Ryus. Miria could escape Riful's attack from point blank range (not to mention she could sit on her head instantly without her doing anything) using her slower version of her phantom, whereas Renee couldn't do a thing against Riful even though as an eye she should have sensed her coming with enough lead/advance/anticipation (don't know how to say it in English :P). Sorry but your "precognition" argument goes out the window. I don't even know how did you come up with it in the first place. There is no indication Galatea has "precognition" ability, not to mention Renee. AFAWK only Clare and Teresa had such ability.

As for Dee vs. Flora, read my post in Nina vs. Dee thread. If not for her dodging Helen's and Deneve's attacks I would say she came out rather bad in her encounter against AB, worse than Nina. And yes, I can see Flora dodging Helen's and Deneve's attacks or at least blocking them. She was the fastest "sword-drawer" after all.
Plus Miria said to Clare that she "shouldn't be outdone even by high ranking single digit warriors". But she was talking about Clare, not Helen and Deneve and they surely were weaker than Clare. And judging by their performance against Dee they were only slightly above her but had their partial-awakening skills that gave them the edge.
And about fighting among hellcats and AFs, for all we know she was only a bystander waiting for both sides kill each other. I don't see a reason why Flora would make any worse than her if she knew what Dee knew. In addition her WC technique would protect her from getting a parasite.

As to Jean vs. Nina - Jean held the longest against Riguald and still managed to protect her body from instant death, i.e. she performed better than Flora. Nina had problems with keeping up with "way faster than average AB" and needed help for her attack to succeed. To me the obvious winner would be Jean.

Sorry not much time to reply... getting ready for Thanksgiving tomorrow (huge American Holiday... expect slow day tomorrow on any English forum). I was referring to Miria during Pieta not 7 years later vs Riful... so, you know, when her power actually was equal to her rank and Renee and thus support your original argument. What does it matter how strong she became later in this debate? Your argument here is nonsensical, are you seriously telling me Miria could avoid Riful during Pieta when she couldn't keep up with Rigardo who was slower than Isley? Next off Riful was looking away from Rachel and towards the passed out low rankers when miria jumped on her... Once again your argument is overstating the facts.

As to Dietrich I just see her as not a good commander by being lead to water... and the timing of the battle implies the org was trying to get every last scrap of AB flesh before Isley fell so they could pump out AFs. I'm not so sure they where short on man power but get didn't care about losses if it meant more AB flesh before Alicia and Beth where sent against Riful. To the org they mattered not Dietrich's team... if they died so what but if they got the org more flesh great! Next off Deneve also implied Die still stood a chance by herself... the comment was directed towards Dietrich's team which Deneve stated as being all being noobs lower than rank 30, so it had nothing to do with Dietrich or her power but her crappy team. She had a bad team which either she couldn't control due to being foolish noobs or was forced into a bad fighting location by the AB and couldn't get the noobs out of the fight. Deneve's comment has no standing with Dietrich's power at rank 8 vs previous rank 8s.

As to Jean you're kinda implying she lasted more than 3 panels... hell, after 1 panel Rigardo went for the opening. Don't see much point in debating this... as a positive for Jean... half the people I know just think Flora froze like also Miria did, she was just overwhelmed at the monster she was fighting. With Nina you're right she had problems with a supposedly fast AB but was always just a step behind... with a team she preformed far better than Jean's team did against that bug AB in the Pieta. Yet, I fully admit that was just my take on the winner and it is debatable who'd win here.



Oh come on... that was my bloody point too or did you miss it? Look your argument seems to run along the lines of Teresa was a #1 and therefore all other number ones are weak and below par. My argument is Teresa was a #1 and since she was so much stronger than other #1's she isn't to be taken into account for averaging out the power of the standard #1. Now I ask, which line of thought is most likely to figure out if a generation was weak or not as a whole? the one that counts the exceptions as the rule or one that tries to take into account the exceptional warriors at each rank and works around them.

Yes, the top five warriors of Clare's generation where exceptionally strong but if you ignored Teresa and Priscilla of Teresa's generation and Alicia and Beth of Clare's gen... Clare's gen would likely stomp Teresa's gen too and therefore it is Clare's generation being exceptionally strong and not likely Clarice's generation being exceptionally weak. I mean if Clare's gen can rape Teresa's gen it's not a surprise if Clare's gen also beat Clarice's gen. Even if Clarice's gen is below par your argument doesn't prove it, at best speculates it... so please drop the whole "it's fact" routine. We get that Clare's generation had exceptional warriors in it but it doesn't prove one way or another the other two known gens where weaker than average or the other two gens ability to fight one another. For your argument to have any merit you have to also prove Teresa's gen over all (minus Teresa and Priscilla) would rape Clarice's gen overall (minus Alicia and Beth) to show a trend... good luck with that...

[wickedsmile]

Goral:

It doesn't even need to be that complicated as to involve Raftela. Deneve gets hungry and steals one of Helen's apples. Helen, the apple binge eater, goes haywire and seeks retribution against the thief.

I would say that their fight ends in a draw. They split an apple and share a pint.

WS