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Thread: Lost in translation: Number 510

  1. #16
    Translator 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member boyakist4649's Avatar
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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 510

    Quote Originally Posted by juUnior View Post
    Its really like that? It isn't the other way around: that Rikudou Sennin came from Uchiha and Senju? <he was the ancestor of both clans?> He didn't separate anything me thinks.
    Sorry - I don't have the time to pull the reference, but didn't Madara explain to Naruto that the Rikudou Sennin, right before his death, had given his powers to the two brothers (I think his two sons), and the two brothers ended up to be ancestors of the Uchiha and Senju, respectively?

    I don't think the Rikudou came from Uchiha and Senju - I think the Uchiha and Senju came from the Rikudou Sennin...


    Quote Originally Posted by Roflkopt3r View Post
    I wonder if there is a relation to the "Idiot"-crow? .
    Thanks for your input ^_^

    A little word about the crow...
    The crow is considered to be one of the larger pests in Japan, and it has appeared in many series as an "aho" crow. The sound the crow makes, heard from a Japanese, sounds like "Ahh-ho-!" which sounds like the word for fool/stupid, "Aho"'
    I have seen this joke from Japanese comic series of the 1970's that I have read - before my time.

    As for its relationship with Kakashi - it's probably too much extrapolation on our part to say it has to do with the crow. Kishimoto tends to have the names of the characters in the Naruto series reflect another word.

    Hatake Kakashi (Field Scarecrow)
    Haruno Sakura (Cherry blossom of the spring)
    Umino Iruka (Dolphin of the Sea)

    My guess is that Kishimoto originally aimed to write a lighter, more comedic manga series, not too serious.
    Last edited by boyakist4649; September 20, 2010 at 08:23 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  3. #17
    Intl Translator MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted juUnior's Avatar
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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 510

    Oh, I was misunderstood. Of course I agree with what you are saying about "brothers" and whatnot, but I was referring to page 11 of the current chapter, bubbles 2 and 3. Does it not say that RS himself was the ancestor of Uchiha and Senju? <in this particular matter I am referring to Sleepyfans translation, because it sounds way different than what Mangastream wrote in theirs release>
    ..:: I LoVe I's ::.. [Naruto] Share your thoughts on: Boobies

  4. #18
    Translator 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member boyakist4649's Avatar
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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 510

    Quote Originally Posted by juUnior View Post
    Oh, I was misunderstood. Of course I agree with what you are saying about "brothers" and whatnot, but I was referring to page 11 of the current chapter, bubbles 2 and 3. Does it not say that RS himself was the ancestor of Uchiha and Senju? <in this particular matter I am referring to Sleepyfans translation, because it sounds way different than what Mangastream wrote in theirs release>
    Sorry - this is the first time reading the Sleepyfans translations for me ^^

    Here's a comparison and breakdown of what the two bubbles in question say. For whatever reason, this was a week of small mistakes...

    Mangastream:
    The Uchiha and the Senju wre once one and the same.
    The Sage, who was the two clans and the two bloodlines in one person, used his powers to create many things

    SleepyFans:
    Uchiha and Senju were once one.
    As the ancestor of both clans, the sage of the six paths had the blood and power of both and used them to create everything.

    Japanese:
    もともとうちはと千手は一つだ
    その二つの始祖である六道仙人はその二つの血と力を持ち あらゆるものを創った。

    Breakdown:
    もともと(originally)うちはと千手は(Uchiha and Senjyu)一つだ(were one)
    その二つの始祖である六道仙人は(Rikudou Sennin was the ancestor to those two) その二つの血と力を持ち (and with the two bloods and powers) あらゆるものを創った。(created many things)

    Me:
    The Uchiha and the Senju were once one entity
    The Rikudou sennin was their (Uchiha and Senju) ancestor, and used both their bloodlines and powers to create many things

    In other words:
    The Rikudou Sennin was the ancestor to both Uchiha and Senju lines

    Additionally a comment about the Sleepyfans translation,
    "I am the only one who can be the second sage of the six paths" - is read a bit differently in Japanese... please refer to my previous post:

    Quote Originally Posted by boyakist4649 View Post
    In light of a mistranslation (IMHO), allow me to clarify a critical point in this week's chapter:

    Mangastream: Two of the six paths are now one being!
    Original Japanese: 二人目の六道にして 今は唯一の存在。

    Let's break it down literally to avoid further misunderstanding.
    二人目の (the second person) 六道(Rikudou)にして  今は (now) 唯一 (The only) の存在 (existance/being)

    The first sentence:
    二人目の六道にして This is meaning that "something" takes form as the Second Rikudou Sennin - in this case we are likely talking about Madara.
    The second sentence:
    今は唯一の存在 Means that: they are now one being.

    Now, let's take it into context: Madara just talked elaborately about how the original Rikudou Sennin separated himself into two parts: an "Uchiha" part and a "Senju" part. However he says that he is an "Uchiha Madara which gained the power of Senju Hashirama" thus making him in control of both Uchiha and Senju parts. Madara is saying that he is the second Rikudou, and he is the only one who has combined what the original Rikudou Sennin had separated.
    I hope I clarified things. Then again, I may have been confused myself ^^
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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 510

    Ok iam new here so hi to everyone!

    I am a somewhat regular poster in onemanga and was discussing the "mistranslation" of the latest chapter of Naruto.

    I use mangastram to read Naruto so that's where i first read the chapter.
    I have now read the Sleepyfan translation and yours.

    I must say that i was one of the people that supported the translation where Madara said that he's two of the six paths and Nagato was the third.

    Of course i have no knowledge of japanese so my opinion wasn't based on my translating abilities rather basic deductive logic(at least i hope so...)

    How can Madara refer to himself as the second Rikudou when he doesn't posses all of his powers?

    I mean he obviously didn't have the Rinnegan so he couldn't have been the second Rikudou.

    Also if the above is true and Madara wasn't the second Rikudou then neither Nagato was the third as we know nothing about a second.

    Furthermore in a picture in the latest chapter it shows the Rikudou Sennin having a Rinnegan-Sharingan mix doujutsu.

    So if that's the case we can safely say that Nagato didn't have all the Rikudou Sennin's powers either,he just had the Rinnegan.

    Now i know that Kishi can justify anything but with the above logic the mangastream translation seems more fitting.

    I just wanted to ask if you are completely sure about the translation you gave and if you are if you can help me fill/explain the gaps/misunderstandings i mentioned in this post.

    Thank you in advance and sorry for the long post!

    Edit
    That post is in no way insulting your translating skills,
    sorry if you're offended
    Last edited by Mangahelper; September 20, 2010 at 02:11 PM.

  7. #20
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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 510

    We still need a closer look to Ridoku's rinnengan, because the rinnengan we have seen with the tomoes are either in the background or Jyuubi's eyes. Probably his eyes would change just like Naruto's eyes changed whenever he would access to Kyuubi's chakra or get very mad.

    As Madara talking about being ridoku, probably is related with Izanagi itself, this mean the ability to create and we can say that that Nagato has these abilities whenever we saw Jigokudō calling out Gedo a capable of restoring the rest of Pain's path.

  8. #21
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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 510

    Quote Originally Posted by Alterno View Post
    We still need a closer look to Ridoku's rinnengan, because the rinnengan we have seen with the tomoes are either in the background or Jyuubi's eyes. Probably his eyes would change just like Naruto's eyes changed whenever he would access to Kyuubi's chakra or get very mad.

    As Madara talking about being ridoku, probably is related with Izanagi itself, this mean the ability to create and we can say that that Nagato has these abilities whenever we saw Jigokudō calling out Gedo a capable of restoring the rest of Pain's path.
    I agree we need a closer look but lets look at what we have.

    We have seen both the Rikudou Sennin and the Juubi with these Rinnegan-Sharingan eyes.

    So that could mean two things:

    1.This mix doujutsu was Rikudou's original doujutsu and all we saw at Juubi's eyes was the projection of his when he was trying to control/seal/supress it.

    2.Rikudou's doujutsu and maybe whole powers comes from the Juubi so they both had the same eyes.

    Ok lets assume that Rikudou's powers didn't originated from the Juubi:

    If Rikudou had only Rinnegan then we shouldn't have seen the mix doujutsu in Juubi's eyes as if that was the projection of his eyes it should have been only Rinnegan.

    Now lets assume that Rikudou's powers where originated from Juubi:

    Then we have 2 scenarios

    1.Rikudou had Rinnegan and obtained Sharingan through becoming Juubi's jinchuuriki.

    2.Rikudou had the mix doujutsu from the start same as Juubi's.

    Well that's how i see it.
    If you think i am mistaken somewhere above feel free to correct me.
    Last edited by Mangahelper; September 20, 2010 at 02:58 PM.

  9. #22
    Translator 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member boyakist4649's Avatar
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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 510

    I should really get to sleep... ^^
    I hope I can answer your questions, and also further clarify any misunderstandings.... I should really post these when I am more awake... it's been a rough week... sorry everyone if I still make no sense!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mangahelper View Post
    Ok iam new here so hi to everyone!

    How can Madara refer to himself as the second Rikudou when he doesn't posses all of his powers?

    I mean he obviously didn't have the Rinnegan so he couldn't have been the second Rikudou.
    True... however in this chapter he refers to the Rikudou Sennin as someone that was the ancestor of Uchiha and Senju clans... so someone that has BOTH Uchiha and Senju powers. Subsequently, he points out that there were those that didn't harness these powers appropriately, and we have a picture of Danzou.

    This is my interpretation: Madara refers himself as the second incarnation (coming) of the Rikudou Sennin because he has both Uchiha and Senju blood/powers/etc. He must also have some other characteristics he shares with the original Rikudou Sennin as well. He may not have the Rinnegan, but we also don't know too much about how the Rinnegan came to be, either.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mangahelper View Post
    I just wanted to ask if you are completely sure about the translation you gave and if you are if you can help me fill/explain the gaps/misunderstandings i mentioned in this post.
    This is one of the reasons why I translated the text in question the way I did:
    Japanese counting.

    二人 (futari) was the term used to describe the "2nd Rikudou" that is under confusion. 二(two) 人(people) is a term used to exclusively count people. Had this been describing two paths/roads of the Rikudou, it would need to be written as 二本 where "本" would describe road.
    In the Japanese language, we use these suffix kanji characters to describe what is being counted.
    Subsequently, Madara uses 三(three) 人(people) to describe Nagato as the "3rd Rikudou" as well.
    This is why I translated the text as the "2nd person" rather than the "2nd path". I believe the translation of Rikudou as Six-paths is very misleading.

    I do hope the authors clarify this in more detail over the next coming weeks...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mangahelper View Post
    That post is in no way insulting your translating skills,
    sorry if you're offended
    Not at all - thanks for posting!

    *** am I making any sense at all these past couple days....? starting to wonder about how bad my English is.... ***
    Last edited by boyakist4649; September 20, 2010 at 03:25 PM.
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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 510

    Quote Originally Posted by boyakist4649 View Post
    *** am I making any sense at all these past couple days....? starting to wonder about how bad my English is.... ***
    You are fine... so far I've not complains. I'll complain or ask for real when there's something that I don't understand

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    Thumbs Up Re: Lost in translation: Number 510

    Ok i can understand the explanation you are giving me although i have thought of this myself too but i didn't find it satisfying to be honest.

    At any rate iam not completely convinced though my opinion has changed radically.

    I'll be posting accepting this translation as a fact from now on though i won't reject totally the "path" translation,as it still makes more sense ,though it has tiny to none chance of being true.

    I wanna thank you for this translation and for answering to my post.

    Keep up the good work for all of us that don't know the blessed language of the manga country.

  14. #25
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted sarutobi_sensei's Avatar
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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 510

    Really nice

    Cleared some mistakes from the chapter.

    So Tobi is still not calling himself Uchiha Madara directly but implying that he is him. Oh how I'm going to feel good when it comes to light that he isn't him

  15. #26
    Translator 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member boyakist4649's Avatar
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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 510

    Quote Originally Posted by Mangahelper View Post
    Ok i can understand the explanation you are giving me although i have thought of this myself too but i didn't find it satisfying to be honest.

    At any rate iam not completely convinced though my opinion has changed radically.

    I'll be posting accepting this translation as a fact from now on though i won't reject totally the "path" translation,as it still makes more sense ,though it has tiny to none chance of being true.

    I wanna thank you for this translation and for answering to my post.

    Keep up the good work for all of us that don't know the blessed language of the manga country.
    Thanks for your kind words - I'm not looking to change opinions, merely hoping to put in my thoughts/opinions into this weekly translation process.

    ^_^b
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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 510

    Thanks boyakist4649 - That was really useful. I got really confused when I saw the MS translation initially then discarded as not making any sense at all.

    I am glad to see some confirmation - you are a star!
    Focus on your circle of influence and not your circle of concern
    Jiraiya: Right, I need a title for the next book..Ah...Got it....
    THE TALE OF UZIMAKI NARUTO SASUKE
    About Pain: Yahiko provides the ideals and Nagato is the means

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  18. #28
    Translator 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member boyakist4649's Avatar
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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 510

    Quote Originally Posted by sarutobi_sensei View Post
    Really nice

    Cleared some mistakes from the chapter.

    So Tobi is still not calling himself Uchiha Madara directly but implying that he is him. Oh how I'm going to feel good when it comes to light that he isn't him
    Being that Tobi was planning to use Nagato's "Rinne-Tensei" I am assuming that the actual physical part of Tobi/Madara may be dead. For a couple weeks now we have been getting glimpses of Tobi's face... so I am expecting a full reveal very soon. ^^
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    Re: Lost in translation: Number 510

    thanks clarifying things better

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