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I'm sure it was discussed before, but I couldn't find anything related so I'm just curious what's this about.
Recently I've came across 2 old pages where Whitebeard was mentioned for the first time and I couldn't believe my eyes, how come I didn't notice this before?
3rd (middle) panel: http://www.mangastream.to/one-piece-...3-page-13.html
Whitebeard's back, you can clearly see the swastika.
First panel: http://www.mangastream.to/one-piece-...4-page-11.html
Again, you can clearly see it in the flag. I mean... what the hell was Oda about back then? It's clear that he felt bad or something and he changed it later on, but I still can't understand why he would draw it like that.
Swastika itself is a symbol of various good things, Oda clearly was about this stuff (read wiki i linked) but later prolly lots of peoples was complaining and redactor or smthn make him remove it.
Dam u Hitler!
I know about swastika's , I just didn't know about it being in the manga. I started with the anime, then I read the manga but really quick and didn't put much attention to details. I just wanted to point it out to others and see if there was another meaning to it shown in the manga.
So far I found this: http://img.mangastream.to/manga/one-piece/159/09.jpg original tattoo
i dont think oda ever revealed why he used a swastika but many mangeka do its as its a symbol in many reliogions and cultures. kishi and kubo have both used them in naruto and bleach. for some reason oda is the only one of the big three who stopped using it in the manga probably because it is pretty noticeable. i personally liked the old version more probably because the new jolly roger is kind of boring and looks like he didnt really try making it look cool. i think kishi kept using it in the manga but the anime adaptions of naruto censored it.
I came upon that same page a few years ago and did some research after pondering that very same question
Truth is, the svatiska as a symbol is nearly as old as human civilization - going as far back as the Paleolithic. Before the nazi regime gave it its widespread negative connotation, it was (and still is in indian religions, if Wikipedia can be trusted) used as a symbol for good luck, wealth, and prosperity. In modern japan, the symbol is associated with Buddhism and even used on maps to locate temples.
So in Whitebeard's case, I would say Oda (as do other mangakas) picked the symbol for its historical meaning, possibly without giving thought to its darker aspects, which after all are essentially perceived in western culture.
I wouldn't give it too much thought. Japanese aren't really burdened by racism problems of the western cultures. So when Kubo draws Ichigo's hilt in the shape of a swastika or when Oda draws a swastika on a pirate flag, it doesn't mean much. Certainly not that he's a nazi. He changed the flag design due to western market, which should be a proof in itself of how important that symbol was to him.
Just to clear up any misunderstandings about this "swastika". Oda took it out kindly too avoid any butt hurt feelings that it may inadvertently cause for the international fans. There is a slight difference between the swastika and the manji. The manji is based off of the heavy influence of Buddhism in Japan. It's by no means intended to be racist. Although, I have this really subtle suspicion that the Japanese are obsessed with German culture based off of a couple of works. To name a few (...Bleach, Valvrave, FMA)
for all that's worth Oda didn't use a Swastika (crossed "SS" 卐) but a Reverse Swastika (crossed "ZZ" 卍).
The reverse swastika "卍" or "Manji", being a kanji and all, is part of the japanese language. It doesn't mean "Nazi" just because they used it a thousand years after it was commonly used in asia and i think it means good things or balance or something in its original meaning... it's easy to misunderstand without being born in East Asia or being a fan of History Channel and that's probably why they made Oda change it to the Anime Jolly Roger.
It's not uncommon for other mangakas to use that symbol. The main character of Blade of the Immortal (Mugen no Juunin) takes the name Manji (written "卍") and has a big 卍 on his back.
Quite sure this has absolutely nothing to do with Racism or National Socialism it's a reversed one.
It's not a Swastika but "Sauwastika".
Like Th232 said, that's a Manji and iirc symbolize something of unknown/unlimited power or potential.
It's not like nazi themed villains or characters are predominant in japan's fiction work. They base their stories on everyone and everything.
The Nazis also rotated the symbol 45 degrees (such that if you filled it in, it would be a diamond rather than a square). Whitebeard's is squared on the bottom like the Asian source.
Jesus Christ, talk about ignorant.
Is it ignorant on Oda's part for using a symbol that similar to the Nazi's symbol? Well not really a coincident since the Nazi was intentionally used this Indian symbol because they thought the White Aryan came from there. Or is it ignorant for people not to know this religious symbol that common to Buddhism and Hinduism (I would argue Taoism too since in China they mix everything up) and then cry wolf about it? Yes yes yes yes yes yes, freaking yes.
You can go watch old chinese television series with Buddhism and you can see that sign everywhere as a seal to demons.
I almost get detention for drawing it when I just got here on the USA. And when I told my teacher that was a religious symbol. Am I ignorant of WW2 history back then? Sure I was, because I came from vietnam where we didn't spent on that much time studying about it just like usa spent a day in school studying about vietnam war. Is she ignorant about the fact and still insist that she was right after my explanation? YES YES YES YES freaking yes.
Why would billions of people who used this for thousand of year as a symbol of peace should be responsible for the monstrosity of that of the Nazi?
There are plenty in manga/comic too especially old ones. One example is Yu Yu Hakusho.
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Last edited by weixiaobao; January 13, 2014 at 10:16 AM.
I was having doubts about it's meaning and I popped (not pooped, OK?! ) the question in order to clarify my doubts. I had knowledge about some of the symbols, but I didn't know in which way they were used in the manga. Now I know, so stop hating. You are being the ignorant one now. Gee!
And even you, you were "ignorant" of the history of this symbol. Hence, I and many had "inform" you of the matter. Beside, from your tone, you said something along the like "what the hell is Oda thinking?" And you used, "he felt bad about something." You already charge him with the crime. Your post was trying to get people to verify this and or assure your judgement in the first place. The educated African American lady have an article ranted on how racist is pokemon. Her tone was even worst than yours.
Yes, accusing someone of racism or ignorant is not a good thing when you were indeed "ignorant" of the issue.
I don't fault you, because you are the norm. Not too many westerners know this. But you are open to criticism, once you open your mouth and think Oda had done something wrong or being ignorant while you, yourself, is ignorant of the matter (like my history teacher).
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