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Thread: Claymore 109 Discussion / 110 Prediction thread

  1. #46
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member HegemonKhan's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 109 Discussion / 110 Prediction thread

    My understanding:

    The ONLY threat to Priscilla was/is Teresa. So, if Priscilla smells Teresa's scent still lingering around, she assumes that Teresa is still alive, and that means Priscilla's survival/reign is under threat. So, Priscilla is obviously concerned, as this faint smell of Teresa is the ONLY threat/weakness to her life!

    The problem for Priscilla:

    Where the F^^* is "Teresa" (Clare) ????

    Well, this human whom giving off Teresa's smell must obviously know "Teresa", and he is looking for this Claymore, whom must be Teresa.

    So, Priscilla simply tags along Raki, waiting for him to find and thus lead Priscilla to "Teresa" (Clare), whom Priscilla can than kill "Teresa again" !

    (it's no different than what police would do. Say there's a criminal and he has a brother or a GF. The police don't know where the criminal is, so the follow/track the brother or his GF, in hopes that the brother or his GF will go/lead the police to him, whom the police than would arrest)

    (the only difference, is that while doing this, Priscilla is behaving like a sweet innocent human girl... either Priscilla is wickedly deceptively cunning or she's got major dissociative disorder, "multiple personalities" disorder)

    -------------------------

    as to why Priscilla didn't kill Raki:

    the easiest simpliest possible (and possibly best) explanation:

    she grew/became fond of or even loved him.

    the problem however with this:

    she seemed to have completely forgotten and totally uninterested with Raki's life.

    a possible explanation:

    in changing back into her Awakened body/form (or from what caused it), Priscilla forgot and/or no longer cared about Raki, and she also was already away from him when this happened.
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; November 04, 2010 at 09:04 PM.
    "The internet’s perfect for all manner of things, but productive discussion ain’t one of them. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional “live audience” quickly conspire to create a “perfect storm” of perpetual bickering." - Charlie Brooker

    "I hold the wolf by the ears, I am in a dangerous situation and dare not let go" -an old saying in Latin

  2. #47
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
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    Re: Claymore 109 Discussion / 110 Prediction thread

    There was something I wanted to bring out for everyone to see if they remember.

    I remember, this was more obvious on the cartoon of the manga, that when Miria finished "checking" how strong Clare was before they were to face their first AB that Clare feinted.

    While she was feinted, you could see through her mind. In her mind, you'd see a picture of what looked like Teresa doing certain moves. This moves showed Clare the flow of yoki.

    Now, while inside the destroyer, she was able to link her mind to Rafaela. Now that Clare is inside the destroyer with what looks to be Prisiclla, could she link Teresa's mind to fight against Priscilla's?

    Remember that Rafaella did tell Clare that if she died fighting inside the destroyer's mind that she would die in reality?

    Also, another thing to think about. What if the destroyer was Clare awakened and she had chosen that form. Remember that when you awaken you choose your form. As far I can see from through the manga, that image is only mentioned whenever Clare was around to remind her of the twin goddesses Clare and Teresa. The being "Clare" that came out of the destroyer could just be a fake to lure Prisiclla into the awakened being.

    Another theory: Raki was turned into a more human claymore than the average claymore by Isley as it was the only way for him to become strong enough to "protect" clare. Isley could have chosen not to turn him into full claymores as male claymores tend to awaken easily and become out of control.

    Why would priscilla not kill rakki when she met him? My theory is the obvious one regarding the "smell". Also, throughout the manga we never see priscilla actually attack children and when she met rakki he was just a child.

    Why not kill him eventually? Remember that Isley had feeling for rakki and Priscilla? He felt like in a family with them. Priscilla could have grown fond of him as well. Also, when the destroyer awakened she didn't necessarily attack anyone but chose to just flee towards it. I guess Rakki just got caught on the crossfire while he probably ran towards Priscilla to stop her.

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  4. #48
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Moie's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 109 Discussion / 110 Prediction thread

    Upcoming chapters:
    1) Clare somehow gets unrocked(lol)
    - is she herself still?
    - priscilla alive?
    - super clare now? --> super priscilla now?
    2) Raid on org:
    - fails, Clare has to Rambo it if 1c is true?
    - pass, we find out some stuff not know to us until w/e time we know it lol
    3) Raki TOTALLY screws everyone:
    - c'mon we all know he's gonna get em screwed somehow
    4) If 2b, more info on "other" continent and/or mainland(if any)
    - If this happens this would be a good time to make it AT LEAST bimonthly...

    Other than that, first and foremost, what are thoughts on this and then... idk,,,
    Still dealing with confusion and disappointment of 109

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  6. #49
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Goral's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 109 Discussion / 110 Prediction thread

    I've just got an idea. Everyone is assuming that attack on Rabona was done by the organization (for one reason or another) and no other option has been considered. But I've just remembered that organization wasn't the only party that could control youma and ABs. Riful and Isley could do it also. Of course they're not suspects in this case but I'm mentioning them to establish that it's not impossible for other parties to be involved. And there is one person who also we've seen controlling youma/AB (AB to be precise) and who would have motive to do so. Guess who. Yup. Rubel. I'm thinking, if he really believed that Miria could have destroyed organization if she weren't alone then it would be worth a risk to finish what he started. Now was the time to act. So he sent his private army that he was gathering through all those years and sent them to a certain death just to piss the ghosts off, antagonize the rest of Claymores that weren't completely sure about MiB's true colors and make them attack the Org. Now was the time. Assuming that #10 is their only black card and twins and most of the Claymores were exhausted or injured there would be no better opportunity to act than now. And he of all people would know that such small and weak army wouldn't do any damage to the ghosts. I just can't picture him as someone who would do nothing about it and just wait another century for another Miria to appear.
    As for his private army, certainly some will ask "how could he control them?" or "where did he hide them?". The first question is easy to answer - the same way he controlled male AB. For all ABs and youma knew Rubel had organization's backup. So if they messed with him they would risk messing with whole organization which wouldn't have problems with wiping them out. He could demenstrate it by killing random AB using Raphaela or some other Claymore or by sending a request to kill some AB using his authority as a handler. Or he was able to kill AB himself. He didn't have to be stronger than all of them combined, it would suffice if he was stronger than the strongest of them. And we know that among ABs that attacked Rabona were only the weakest ones so he wouldn't need to be as strong as Raphaela. More difficult to answer is the second question. Either he could send messages remotely (e.g. he had his private Galatea who could not read emotions but "write" them and send them, among other things she could do for/to him) or he had his army stored not far from organization's HQ, all in one place. The only way they could remain undetected would be to be under suppressant pills which he could easily access without suspicion.

    This could also explain the reason why Dae even appeared and what he was doing somewhere. He was checking on a report that a small army of ABs and youma gathered somewhere and he was investigating it as an outsider. He didn't know who he could trust on this and who was the traitor among them. Him stumbling upon Destroyer and Raki were only coincidences which were a good cover to him and worked to his advantage, masking his real agenda.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Moie's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 109 Discussion / 110 Prediction thread

    That really sounds far fetched... slightly probable. Though with 109 (still grieving) I'm not sure about much anymore.

  9. #51
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member HegemonKhan's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 109 Discussion / 110 Prediction thread

    that's a good point Goral, as I think everyone has been so "tunnel-visioned" in that it had to be the Organization.

    But as you roughly said, if not the Organization, than who, lol.

    the problem I have with your Rubel as suspect are these things:

    If you believe he's indeed a spy against the Organization, then you need to also consider this as well, as Rubel himself said this approx... :

    Rubel: ~"I could have had the Organization destroyed by an outside force, long ago, but the problem with this is that they would just continue their research elsewhere, and I would probably have been caught, and thus we'd have to re-infiltrate the Organization with them now WARY of infiltration."

    Rubel: ~"No, instead, a much better attack is to crush their motivation, their interest in developing controllable living weapons (Claymores-Awakeneds). This can be done by having/causing their own research (living weapons, Claymores-Awakeneds) be far too negative/dangerous/disasterous. I want to "teach" them that developing controlable living weapons, is just an impossible fantasy."

    Also Rubel said this in ch 106 or 107: ~"%&^ Miria! Your suicide act, occured too soon..."

    hmm... what does Rubel mean by this?

    Infected Raki whom will break the yoki-mental control of all the AFs/AEs and Awakening Twins possibly at the Org HQs, successfully destroying it/them this time?

    for the Ghosts to attack with Miria?

    for Clare?

    etc..

    --------------------------------

    Rather than Rubel ordering the attack on Rabona, could it not be Dae?

    Dae did say he had to check up on something/go somewhere during his trip back to the Org HQs...


    the question is, does the manga show Rubel make any mention/indication of knowledge of the attack on Rabona? I don't recall reading anything. But if so, than he did, and your possibility of this would be right. I'm too lazy though to go back and look.

    ---------------------------------

    P.S.

    I'm still maintaining my now old and thus far still surviving theory that Rubel is actually the true-real LEADER of the Organization
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; November 06, 2010 at 12:10 AM.
    "The internet’s perfect for all manner of things, but productive discussion ain’t one of them. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional “live audience” quickly conspire to create a “perfect storm” of perpetual bickering." - Charlie Brooker

    "I hold the wolf by the ears, I am in a dangerous situation and dare not let go" -an old saying in Latin

  10. #52
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member wickedsmile's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 109 Discussion / 110 Prediction thread

    HK:

    Rubel (prounounced Rubelle in the Anime) perplexes me as much as Priscilla if not more. The manner by which he speaks to Clare implies some care for her well being but yet, he sends her to die with Miria/Deneve/Helen on the male AB Hunt. He counsels Clare against getting attached to Raki, almost as a parent looking after a child. However, he amusingly tosses the black card to Clare without empathy or care, almost as if it were an amusing occasion. Later, he conveniently "encourages" Clare to head north to Pieta to fight in what he knew was a suicide mission.

    We know that he gave Miria information on the Organization. It's unclear if he mis-informed her or worked with her to the detriment of the Org. He does the same to Clare after three of the Ghosts clear a small tow of an AB. It's logical to assume that he works to further his goals but what are they? Is he the proverbial cold war spy or is the mastermind behind the Org? Could he also be an Org. member that has gone rogue?

    WS

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  12. #53
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member HegemonKhan's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 109 Discussion / 110 Prediction thread

    you want my Rubel theory? lol.

    Rubel is actually the LEADER of the Organization, not Rimuto. Rubel is in around as many pages as is Clare, which would make him the antagonist, as Clare's clearly the protagonist.

    What does Rubel want? POWER and WORLD DOMINATION. He's creating his ultimate army of HAs or will plan to use their successful testing to make himself into a "god-Awakened being".

    And Clare is Rubel's precious creation. Implanted with none other than Teresa her self's flesh! Not only that, but because it's Claymore flesh, Clare has the potential to be Rubel's personal ultimate weapon, his "right hand" of death. Able to fully release her yoki and Awaken/de-Awaken at will, while keeping her human mind. She has the potential to be the "end game" HA.

    Rubel immediately gave her difficult missions to push her improvement/growth in power at blazing speed. Quickly giving her a mission, where she'll Awaken, becoming a HA, and using/allowing the boy, Raki, to help her de-Awaken. Clare was specifically trained for this mission too, as she got training in infiltration (aliasing and seduction) unlike any of the other Claymores. Than sending her to save the other HAs (Miria, Deneve, and Helen), as the rest of the Organization's Black Coats were trying to kill off HIS HAs! Well, Rubel almost faithfully-like knows that every mission he gives her, she'll succeed at and jsut grow more and more powerful for him.

    ach.... I better stop... lol... as this could go on way to long!

    and I'm very tired, lol! but I couldn't help responding before I went to bed! lol

    -------------------

    quick response to your post than:

    actually, I think Rubel wasn't trying to kill off Clare

    here's a quick single supporting source for this notion of mine for now:

    ch 25 page 19
    "The internet’s perfect for all manner of things, but productive discussion ain’t one of them. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional “live audience” quickly conspire to create a “perfect storm” of perpetual bickering." - Charlie Brooker

    "I hold the wolf by the ears, I am in a dangerous situation and dare not let go" -an old saying in Latin

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Moie's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 109 Discussion / 110 Prediction thread

    EH....
    I don't think Rubel (pronounced rubl by me) is as grand as you make him sound. He might be with all that's happening, does one really know what to expect? If he is then does there exist that dragon continent? Or maybe that plays a crucial part in his reason as a final boss...
    What if he's just some lackey trying to make the most of all the situations playing out? Maybe he will come out as a final boss but maybe he's just not the leader to begin with? Maybe he's using the HA's as diversional pawns so he may carry out whatever devious plot he may or may not(unlikely that doesn't) have.

    Soil. Can you dig it?

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Goral's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 109 Discussion / 110 Prediction thread

    What's with the ungratefulness to gernot? Thanks to him we have as accurate translation as we can but besides me, Ryus, Piggy and racjona (3 Poles and American) no one has thanked him. Let me remind you that there can't be an English scanlation without a translation and finding scanlation (Chinese especially) is very easy, but finding accurate, English translation not really.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Saint Markus's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 109 Discussion / 110 Prediction thread

    Claire is now evolving with having all those different body parts and then merging with the two warriors, she's gonna be mad strong.

    the idea of fighting the organization is going to be awesome, maybe they are really demons and using the claymores to prepare for an all out war on mankind.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member wickedsmile's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 109 Discussion / 110 Prediction thread

    Hi Goral:

    You've put forward a few ideas that do make sense and that are probable. It's not entirely impossible that Rubel had a group of Yoma and ABs at his disposal. During Clare and Jean's encounter with Rafaela and Rubel, he disclosed something interesting.

    Rubel stated that orphan girls from the different parts of the continent are sent East where the Org.'s HQ resides. As we have discovered, "ALL" claymores are orphaned young girls that have lost their families to Yoma attacks. However, Rubel also reveals that the male orphans are sent "north." To date, we have seen only one female Yoma. Clare imperils herself to save Raki when the female Yoma takes him hostage, but ultimately kills the monster. While the female orphans provide replenishing stocks for the claymore ranks, the male orphans may provide the same purpose but for the creation of Yomas.

    It may explain how villages are razed by "hordes" of Yomas after "disagreements" with MIBs. Clare remarked that Yomas live solitary lives, yet hordes of Yomas descend to destroy villages. This would imply an outside influence on their behavior. We witnessed this in the Witch's Maw as Clare approached Riful's layer.

    WS
    I don't want to die. Even if that makeshift family was all nothing more than an illusion, doomed to someday fall apart. I so wish, so wish, it could have lasted the tiniest bit longer. - Norihiro Yagi

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member HegemonKhan's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 109 Discussion / 110 Prediction thread

    this has been touched upon in the past.

    (but I never realized/thought about the HORDE of normal yomas issue, as it never occured to me, I knew the Org had control of use of a few normal yomas, but it never dawned on me how the Org could send a horde of normal yomas to wipe out towns, which has been now proven to be something done many times by the Org. GREAT JOB mentioning this! thank you!)

    1. we still don't know how the normal yomas are made, if they even are actually made. They might be their own species, and not a creation being made by the Organization, but merely controlled/enslaved/used instead.

    We do know that the normal yomas did come with the Organization (the Organization and the normal yomas are NOT native to the island. They are foreigners from the continent), and that the Org can have control over them (also they can have control over ABs as well).

    (I don't want to list the all the "evidence" for the Org's control over the normal yomas and ABs, as I'm too lazy at the moment)

    2. it's possible that there was an Org "lab" in the northern land, Alphonse, which the slave traders send the male orphans (including Raki, and this is where he could have been made into a Claymore, though there's fatal problems with this idea though) up there to that town with the underground cells (just like the Org HQs has for their newly "created" Claymores).

    And that maybe Isley was a partner in on it. It would explain the 30 male ABs that he had (althought there's ~40 male ABs of the 47 male ABs already accounted for so precisely), and why he never really attacked the Org HQs (those 11 ABs were more like a GIFT from Isley to the Org for them to use to make their first 11 AFs/AEs, which would be the first ones used to hunt poor Isley eventually to death. "Never make a deal with the Organization, as it always ends with a knife in your back" -HK).

    And Isley's 30 male AB army, conveniently destroyed that town, to remove any trace that it was possibly once an Org "lab" making male Claymores/Awakeneds with the orphaned boys.

    so, it *could* be possible...

    Clare did search all over the northern land (alphonse) for Raki, but didn't find any Org "lab", though as I said, that town that Raki was held in the cells underground could have been it, but as said, Isley's 30 AB army destroyed it.
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; November 08, 2010 at 01:48 AM.
    "The internet’s perfect for all manner of things, but productive discussion ain’t one of them. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional “live audience” quickly conspire to create a “perfect storm” of perpetual bickering." - Charlie Brooker

    "I hold the wolf by the ears, I am in a dangerous situation and dare not let go" -an old saying in Latin

  22. #59
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Goral's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 109 Discussion / 110 Prediction thread

    About my far-fetched theory, I'll present what I've written on Animesuki:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryus View Post
    Actually my question is how come Rubel would have thought they where in a state to be finished off? (...)
    As I've written in my post: "Assuming that #10 is their only black card and twins and most of the Claymores were exhausted or injured there would be no better opportunity to act than now." So assuming that Rubel knew only about this trump card he would think that it was now or never (50 years? When would we see another Miria?). Even if all the ghosts weren't in Rabona it was more than certain they would come there at some point and see the destruction of Holy City. Even if they didn't decide to retaliate he wouldn't lose a thing. And in case they decided to counter attack and organization wasn't in a state to be finished off he would win anyway because he would get rid of all HAs (half-awakends). It would be even better if they managed to destroy the org. So it was a not lose/win/win scenario.
    But I agree with you that it's highly unlikely (more like impossible) and far-fetched idea and if anything he only suggested such attack or contributed to it in a restrictive manner (i.e. "to some extent" - not sure if restrictive manner is the right word for it). The text on the side of the newest chapter makes it even more obvious. It's in black and white: "The warriors squelched the attack on the holy city Rabona that the organization had devised..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryus View Post
    Plus even if they eat pills they'd still need to feed and would leave a traceable path of bodies...
    It would depend. If they were scattered and Rubel could contact them somehow then there wouldn't be more bodies than the usual amount. If they were gathered in one place on the other hand it shouldn't be that hard to not leave a trace. For example Rubel could send humans to them directly using various methods and because they wouldn't emit youki there wouldn't be much of a trace left. He could use bandits for that or attack villages that have only paid up recently (and could not afford to use Org's help again). He could also inform about it ABs and youma and let them feed by themselves (since they would be cloaked no nearby Claymore would detect them and if they knew which villages to attack it would be rather easy to not arouse suspicion).

    @An4rchy99
    Yeah, I know it's far-fetched with the pills (although less than with remote-communication via youki or some other means). But still, the same doubts can be cast on Organization. How did they manage to gather this monster army in such short amount of time without Claymores noticing? How did they control them? Where did they hide them?

    Quote Originally Posted by An4rchy99 View Post
    I also agree to this... I have mentioned somewhere that Dae had discovered the truths about Rubel and now he's in trouble... We know that there was a huge network of MiB handlers and finding a concentration of Yoma and AB would surely raise curiosity.
    Yeah, I know you've mentioned it. Actually I've just used your idea since it fitted to my ridiculous theory . I would rep you for that post but I have to spread it first.

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    Banned 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Claymore 109 Discussion / 110 Prediction thread

    HegemonKhan, as I live and breathe. Nice to see you outside of mangafox. Sorry to get off topic, but I'm actually less interested in whose controlling the yoma (almost guaranteed to be the organization) and more interested in what the Ghosts plan on doing about it.

    Do they really think that they'll do better than Miria? If they're going to attack HQ they're going to need a plan. Of course I'm sure that Dietrich will probably be able to fill that role but what assurance do we have that they'll be more prepared for the organizations measures. I'm also interested in that mass (of whatever) that Clare and possibly Priscilla are trapped in. Is that mass all that's left of the Destroyer, or is that mass simply containing Clare and Priscilla?

    Those are some of the items that capture my attention. Granted, the current discussion also demands attention but I think it's been implied several times already that the organization has some control over yoma. So it really isn't that taxing to figure out that yes, they did send yoma to attack Rabona. They've done it before to towns that didn't pay up. In this case, they simply decided to use them to root out "traitors" so to speak.

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