i think smoker should be lower than VAs
Smoker has always been in a low position compared to his actual power. And this is no surprise, since he is the kind of guy that tell his superiors to eat shit if he disagree with the order.
Last edited by Fox666; October 03, 2010 at 11:08 AM.
Smoker: Smoker winning simply because of his logia ability is the same thing for Crocodile or pretty much any Logia user... Their power defines them... Luffy wouldn't really be much
postpre-time skip if he wasn't rubber.
Vice-Admirals: All Vice-Admirals posses Haki as well as Rokushiki. Moria's power without the aid of minions or massive preparation is very weak. Lucci although possessing Rokushiki he showed no signs of haki & I find it very unlike that he would prevail against a skilled haki users and a veteran fighter such as a Vice-Admiral.
Shanks: Shanks stopped Akainu's attack were the entire WB & Allies forces failed... He went toe to toe with whitebeard even if neither was series. This makes him at least admiral level and I see no reason why he would be considered weaker than that by anyone. There is the possibility that he is stronger and as we see more of his powers I will edit his rank accordingly. Same goes for Benn Beckman... As I've stated earlier by his own admission Oda says that Benn Beckman has the highest I.Q of any one piece character along with his position as a Yonkou first-mate and a apparently gifted haki users his position can also only go up from where he is currently ranked.
Daz Bones: if you can not cut steel & Do not posses haki Daz Bones in practically untouchable... Turning every part of his body into Blades/Steel and we saw from his fight with Zoro that he has trained his DF ability rigorously being able to reacted to even Zoro's fastest attacks.
Bon Kurea: Bon Kurea although a cool character is a mediocre fighter at best... And without haki he can not touch most other DF users, such as Daz Bones...
Jimbei & Crocodile Crocodile is bad ass however I don't think he is quite above the level I have him at atm... His lack of haki takes away from his overall ability. Jimbei has only displayed certain abilities and seeing as this list is trying to stay away from building people up on assumptions alone until he shows us more fighting abilities his current rank is sufficient and in no way meant to slander his capabilities I am simply observing the level of a imprisoned, injured, tired and over extended Jimbei.
Pacifista: I believe you are correct about the pacifista moving to level 6.5 It seems a fitting place for them I was having trouble deciding where they should go seeing as it took the entire SH crew to take down 1 after which they were spent...
Jozu: Is practically in destructable and the only reason why people think he is weaker than Ace is because he lead a higher number division... As from what we saw in the marine ford war the only person that could slow him down was Aokiji and only when he was distracted by the possibility of an Injury to his crew.
Brook, Robin & Franky Are all in the same boat pre-time skip. Their abilities destroy fodder & middle ranking fighters but against top tier fighters. I.E Ryuuma, Moria, Pacifista they really do no significant damage. They are not as weak as the 'weak trio' (Nami, Usopp & Chopper) by far and they don't suffer from those three's fear of everything abnormal (even though they are surrounded by abnormally strong people...) Moving any of them up or down will cause to much decent. Some people think A is stronger while others thing B or even C. Same goes for Sanji & Zoro their opponents are all roughly around the same level so no reason to put any above the others...
Last edited by BlackSword; October 03, 2010 at 11:26 AM.
smoker was outclassed by boa easily. he looked like fodder against her. he doesnt have haki which the VAs have. i think youre overrating him.
I think that when it comes to Luffy vs Smoker it's a special case. Luffy always had trouble with him and his seastone juttle. However, I think that against other opponents Smoker wouldn't have results much better than Luffy.Quote:
I don't think that Haki automatically turn someone as stronger than Luffy. It's not that rare afterall. All Kuja have it. The Priests have it. Probably all Whitebeard commanders have it.Quote:
Also, I must say, it's not because we never saw Crocodile or Moria using it against Luffy that they can't use it. Both are New World veterans who fought against Yonkou back them. Why wouldn't they know Haki?
In fact I bet all Shichibukai can use Haki.
About Moria... he is lazy but he is still strong. He is weaker than the other Shichibukais, but still has his Kage Kage no Mi ability. He can use Shadow Asgard, and also impaled Oars Third (how many marine ships shoot him without any apparent injure?).
Either way, I can't see Moria being defeated by guys which Doflamingo played in the Shichibukai meeting in Marijoya...
I bet Beckman is not far from Rayleigh or Marco. But that is purely based on his position as first mate of Shanks. We have not seen he fighting yet.Quote:
And Shanks stopped Akainu attack. But a lot of people with Haki did the same. There is nothing that really count to measure his power, yet. Who knows if he guy has eaten a Devil Fruit in the last 10 years or what.
So they may be very strong, but we cannot measure it.
Well, I at least did not had the impression of Daz Bones being far from Bon Kurey.Quote:
Well, as I said before, I doubt Crocodile doesn't possess Haki. While there is no proof of it yet, I would avoid using "don't possess Haki" to rank character. =PQuote:
According to Sanji, the Pacifista are not behind the real Kuma. At least, they cannot be much far. Other than that, we did not saw many Pacifista being destroyed in Marineford (excluding Hancock). I think I saw 1 being destroyed by a New World pirate, after the Pacifista army killing hundred or thousands of pirates? It's interesting how the author avoided showing a confront beetween important characters and the Pacifista.Quote:
Yeah, but we saw him attacking like... 2 times? I personally think Ace is a lot strong, and there is no shame in being behind himQuote:
While Jozu is fast while doing a rush attack, he doesn't looks the agile type. Ok, he compensates that by having a diamon armor, quite scary when you think about it.
But what happens if someone can bypass his diamon body? I believe that, along with being distracted, are the reasons why he failed against Aokiji.
But now that you said Moria and Pacifista names... if we look at the fewer panels she did something in these battles it was devastating, i.e. almost breaking Moria's neck and closing the Pacifista mouth while it fires... that's scary!
Last edited by Fox666; October 03, 2010 at 12:08 PM.
My classment would be a little different.
Shanks is to me the strongest leaving character in the manga.
BB with his two devil fruits is now way stronger than before. Marco was said to be one of the very few characters in the manga able to fight BB.
Mihawk is the strongest swordman ... he is definitively a level 9.
How can Magellan be so low ... The guy was unstoppable ... Ivankov couldn't stop him at all & was defeated rather quickly.
Shiryuu is said to have Magellan's level.
Coby & Tashigi are level 1 or level 2 at most but those two over Arlong & Bellamy ?
About vice-admirals ... I'll put most of them in level 6 ... Just because the rank is high, it doesn't mean these guys are that strong ...
Level 10: WhiteBeard, Gol D. Roger
Level 9.5: Garp, Sengoku Rayleigh & Shanks
Level 9: Akainu, Kizaru, Aokiji, Marco, Mihawk, BlackBeard
Level 8: Jozu, Kuma, Doflamingo, Hancock, Beckman, Magellan, Shiryuu
Level 7.5: Enel, Ivankov, Ace
Level 7: Smoker, Crocodile, Jimbei, Vista
Level 6.5: Pacifista & Sentomaru
Level 6: Luffy (Pre-Time Skip), Rob Lucci, T. Law, A. Kidd, Moria
Level 5: Zoro, Sanji, Supernova's
Level 4: Daz Bones, Brook, Franky, Robin
Level 3: Bon Kurea, Nami, Chopper, Usopp,
Level 2: Bellamy & Arlong
Level 1: Duval, Buggy, Galdino, Coby , Tashigi
Last edited by zelllogan; October 03, 2010 at 12:18 PM.
Smoker is nowhere near Jinbei , Croc or even Vista.
Sentoumaru and him have to exchange their places in your list.
Shiryu is weaker than Magellan , but he can handle the same "cases" in the prison. Indeed , if he could fight him equally , Magellan would'nt have captured him..
Mihawk is too high too.. how can you put him at that rank without even a single serious fight.
Overall a good list , those points excluded.
Why is Buggy so low? I mean, I know he is comic relief and all... but weaker than Nami, Usopp and Chopper??? What about Buggy balls? ;-)
I think you should move Buggy up to level 4. I think he'd have a decent chance against all the people you currently have there.
Putting Ivankov over Magellan is a mistake. Magellan totally owned Ivankov and neither of them have a special advantage/disadvantage over the other. Maybe they can switch places.
In fact I can't understand all that talk about Smoker being already at VA level before timeskip and that after it even being able to become an Admiral. It was really shown by Rayleigh that Haki matters greatly in a fight between skillfull fighters. So do you think that by any chanse Smoky can be at VA level? He doesn't posess Haki and the only advantage of his DF is being Logia in a sense that you can't touch him. He doesn't have any powerful and devastating attacks. So he will be owned by VA using Haki combined with Rokushiki or sword attacks. Also Smoker is rather slow compared with the majority of really strong persons. He can't stand up to Soru level of speed and it is not that high speed compared to Kizaru, Enel or Kuma.
smoker was again superior to luffy in the war. He's an experienced soldier with a logia. Smoker is a bigger pain in the ass than most vice-admirals. There were 4 vice-admirals at Enies Lobby ... FOUR and they were useless.
It's not because someone has Haki that he is that powerful. The two boa sisters were overclassed by Luffy for example.
OMFG.... I'm so fuckin' tired of people underestimating the V.A.'s!
They did nothing in Enies Lobby because it wasn't necessary... their goal was to destroy marine ford... to kill the SH there was a more than capable fighter( that was what they tought) and the SH's couldn't escape anywhere, if it wasn't for Sanji's more than brilliant plan, and for Merry, they would have been killed without the need of the VA's...
Even if it was Sakazuki or Borsalino in that ship, they wouldn't have reacted until it was needed...
When they needed to act, they didn't have an Hax DF that could stop a boat from escaping while saving the ships from the whirlpool!
And I guess only Aokiji would have, Kizaru would just destroy the Mugiwara, and wouldn't care for the ships, and the same for Akainu... but again they're not admirals they're Vice Admirals, and we can't compare them to those three...
But try to put Smoker in that scenario... First, he would send the 200 captains to arrest the Mugiwara, thinking that Lucci would do the job, and when Sanji did what he did, he wouldn't be able to do anything more.
If you're judging them for Dobberman's praise to Lucci, I guess you misunderstand, he wasn't praising him like if he was god, he was simply saying to the underlings:
"No need to worry, he is strong, we won't even need to move a finger, one day when he was young(...) so that Luffy brat won't stand a chance!
ps:I was talking to the ones who wanted to lower their level, I think they're good in the current Rank!
pps: Iva and Magellan should be traded, Iva 7 and Magellan 7.5!
Last edited by beastboy; October 04, 2010 at 06:35 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Last edited by Fox666; October 04, 2010 at 06:41 AM.