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Thread: Madara thread

  1. #361
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member enmymiguel's Avatar
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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    the 3th hokage, stronger then madara,
    ohh yea just like the 1 tails beast is stronger then the 10 tails. and minato was weaker then konohamaru.
    I must create a real village, until i demonstrate what a real kage is. I cant Die!

  2. #362
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Exodi's Avatar
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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    It's so incredibly illogical to say that Madara as he is right now wouldn't "do shit" to Hashirama.

    I mean:
    http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...5-page-12.html

    So, basically.....correct me if I'm wrong, please:

    Hashirama was stronger Madara. That's established.
    so......ET Madara w/ Rinnegan and Hashirama's abilities can't touch Hashirama?

    That makes so little sense I don't even know how to argue against it.


    My interpretation: The only reason Hashirama might still be able to stop an overpowered immortal zombie is because that zombie uses the Mokuton that Hashirama so beautifully developed. As it is now, Hashirama does not have the same lasting power that Madara currently has, even with his special healing abilities and what have you.

    I'm not even going to touch the main point of the thread. All I have to say is WOW.

  3. #363
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Well to be fair Orochimaru had no bloody idea Minato was in the DG seal, he did not even knew what that is before Sarutobi used it on his but. He just belived Minato was dead. So it does not apply here. To tell the truth even SARUTOBI belived HE stopped the 3'th coffin.
    The thing is at that point in time Kishi had no idea how he is going to use this tech and that people sealed are not going to be able to be summoned. But yeah anyway you look at it you can't make the above claim.
    I thought about it, but later on, didn't Kabuto point out the very same thing? How did he know of the seal if Orochimaru didn't? Maybe Orochimaru knew this failure could happen, but still wanted to give it a shot.

    ---------- Post added at 01:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:36 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by KingOfNight View Post
    Orochimaru's Edo Tensei was perfect. He used it at 100% potential, however Kabuto simply broke the 100% limit and took it to possibly 101%. So it's not like there was anything wrong with his Edo Tensei, it's just that Kabuto went further beyond perfection. And even if we assume that Hashirama wasn't at full power, he would at least be somewhat 80-90% of his power, does that make it anymore believable for Hiruzen to defeat him ?
    There is huge hole in that fight, though. Hiruzen, who was clearly not in his prime anymore fought two prime time Shinobi of Kage level, and Orochimaru, who was also not below that level, either. If this was a hypothetic battle in which Hiruzen was also in his prime, this could have been sort of believable, or at least, debatable, but the way he pulled this out, it just looked like a cheap move.
    Orochimaru was almost impossible to stop by that time. That's why fellow Konoha Shinobi wished Minato was there, as he was the only one that could stop Orochimaru at that point.

    It's not about winning the debate or not. I just can't seem to see bringing all these pieces together without violating consistency (=

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  5. #364
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    Yeah.... who knows at this point?

    I think a lot of things in the manga have been thrown out the window, so it's hard to form a coherent argument with supporting evidence. Because something from the earlier part of the story will clash with something later.

    Could be. If Madara and Hashirama are now super-badass, Kishi could very well make the 3rd even MORE badass in some other flashback, you know?

    But... you know what? I really don't dwell on such things in Naruto anymore!

  6. #365
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    @KingOfNight


    Quote Quote:
    That not what the point of my argument here. Again I'm not trying to compare Hiruzen to anyone at all, so you don't need to go through the whole thing of putting him in a battle against anyone.

    And you know what, this isn't gonna be a useful argument in anyway, the thing here is :

    Based on feats = Madara stomps both of them.

    Based on hype (and i mean straight up hype from K-man) = Hashirama stomps Madara and then get stomped by Hiruzen.

    Even I, in no way think that Hiruzen would win, but that's what K-man been shoving down our throats with all that hype.

    But you know what, since I myself aren't convinced that Hiruzen could pull it off, you two win !
    W8, w8 Hashirama would stomp Madara? You people really make me go "wtf". The EMS version of Madara was just about EQUAL to Hashirama, they had a lot of battles ending in DRAWS. Then 1 last, long battle where Hashirama finaly defeated Madara be a hair... Where do you people get this Hashirama turning Madara into a fodder (some other guy said this)or stomping him? Then Hiruzen stomping Hashirama? Even asuming he is stronger by no means he is stomping anything.
    Also you fail to take into account diferent counter that people have. If you do not have a good counter to Amaterasu like Raikage then you die and you are not able to do shit.
    How is Sarutobi even getting passed Hashirama's INSANE regen if he does not decide to kill himself?

    You know its posible for Madara>Sarutobi>Hashirama>Madara considering that Sarutobi does not have the exact tools Hashirama has. Just because Hashirama can put down Madara and Sarutobi can put down Hashirama it does not mean Sarutobi can put down Madara.

    Now based on hype, CURENT hype Madara was INVINCIBLE if you do NOT put Hashirama into the ecuacion. Nobody but HASHIRAMA could stop him.

    This here is a clear indication of Kishi changing shit as the manga whent on. He needed Madara to be THAT good and for that Hashirama needed to be God of shinobi and that is what he is now.

    @Hakuteiken


    Quote Quote:
    I thought about it, but later on, didn't Kabuto point out the very same thing? How did he know of the seal if Orochimaru didn't? Maybe Orochimaru knew this failure could happen, but still wanted to give it a shot.
    It was made clear that Orochimaru did not know the DG seal. Sarutobi himself said so and Oro confirmed it. Obviously AFTER it was used on Orochimaur he knew about it... Then Orochimaur simply told Kabuto about it. Orochimaru simply did not know at that time he tried to pull Minato that the DG seal existed, then after he himself got hit by it he obvliously knew about it and informed Kabuto to.
    Last edited by xXan; December 29, 2012 at 03:54 AM.

  7. #366
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member NinjaStar's Avatar
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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    @marshall313: No. You said that Madara said that even with the Rinnegan he could not defeat Hashirama.

    I asked you to show me where Madara said this. And in BOTH PAGES that you posted Madara doesn't even say Hashirama's name!!! Do you understand what's wrong with this entire situation? You either just got caught in the most despicable lie you could've tried to sneak by with, or you really... REALLY dropped the ball on your Tagalog-to-English translation.

    Even more disgusting, you said that Hashirama (the guy who couldn't put Madara down throughout the entirety of his professional career) beat him down like he was a fodder. You... you ought to be ashamed of yourself.
    To be fair, Hashirama was the successor to the younger son of the sage, the embodiment of love. While it is true that he fought in many battles im sure he took no joy in them, and its probably why he was the one to suggest the alliance, in fact im sure of it. He tried to settle things peacefully and he only went all out when Madara forced his hand. Im not saying Hashirama could kill him at any time, just that you saying Hashirama going all out with intent to kill every time isn't necessarily true.

    @Topic

    People say that Tsunade is the weakest kage ever but based on feats i honestly think she would beat Sarutobi's ass.

  8. #367
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    @NinjaStar


    His fights involved him having comrades on the battlefield. He would MOST DEFENETLY defened them and himself. At best you can claim he would not land the killing blow if possible but no moron would not go all out because he likes peace. Those where life and death situation where he was puting his life, the life of his comrades and the future of his clan on the line. There is no way he was going easy on Madara because he likes peace.

    Oviously if he could complete his mission by avoiding fighting Madara he would take it BUT if the engage happened he would fight to his best. In the end Hashirama was a shinobi.

  9. #368
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member marshall313's Avatar
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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    Quote Originally Posted by Exodi View Post
    It's so incredibly illogical to say that Madara as he is right now wouldn't "do shit" to Hashirama.

    I mean:
    http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...5-page-12.html

    So, basically.....correct me if I'm wrong, please:

    Hashirama was stronger Madara. That's established.
    so......ET Madara w/ Rinnegan and Hashirama's abilities can't touch Hashirama?

    That makes so little sense I don't even know how to argue against it.


    My interpretation: The only reason Hashirama might still be able to stop an overpowered immortal zombie is because that zombie uses the Mokuton that Hashirama so beautifully developed. As it is now, Hashirama does not have the same lasting power that Madara currently has, even with his special healing abilities and what have you.

    I'm not even going to touch the main point of the thread. All I have to say is WOW.
    Madara said that only hashirama can stop HIM now. He was talking directly to himself, not on a jutsus or for being a zombie but rather on his caliber right now.

    Well, maybe madara forgetting something that he's an ET and had the rinnegan when he claimed those statement.

    And maybe kabuto lied about something. He was a mad sciencetist who did the experiment on madara's body/powers. So maybe he just forgot to include madara on the list,that

    Hashirama's power is a myth like the rikudou's sennin.

    But rather, madara and hashirama's power are a myth like the rikudou sennin. Yeah,

    With that, we can assume that madara already surpassed hashiram when he gained the rinnegan.
    With that, we can assume that madara's power can touch hashirama.
    With that, we can assume that madara can easily kick hashirama's ass.

    But the problem is, what if kabuto didn't lied?

    What if kabuto knew that the difference between madara's power aka rinnegan couldn't still surpassed hashirama's power, who died last 50 years ago?

    Do you really think that the legendary power of madara is almost comparable to hashirama's power as a myth?

  10. #369
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Xiraiya's Avatar
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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    I'm not convinced Hashirama could stop Edo Madara, I do think he can stop EMS Madara however, they are probably pretty close in power, I would say Hiruzen is a step below that with the 2nd Hokage under him.

    I do not believe Hiruzen could defeat Hashirama but I do believe both he and Minato could hold their own in that group of power houses, you can't take what we saw then VS what we saw now, words are important, all dialogue implies people like Minato and Hiruzen could fall under that tier of power with Madara and the like, you have to account for the fact that Kishi's art and thoughts have changed over the years, do you think if Madara was fighting around when the Chuunin exam happened, that it would be anything like today?

    No, the power was scaled on an entirely different level, it doesn't mean the dead characters all magically got stronger per say, it means their power is displayed differently.
    Last edited by Xiraiya; December 29, 2012 at 05:31 AM.

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  12. #370
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member IChallengeYou!'s Avatar
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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    Quote Quote:
    As if his current power isn't enough to defeat the man who trashed him like a fodder
    You lost your entire credibility when you have said this, why do you still bother?

  13. #371
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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    Hishirama is in fact capable of stopping Madara (it doesn't mean he is stronger now but he is capable of stopping him). From Madara's own words, you should understand that.
    "I told you already, only Hashirama is capable of stopping me". http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-cha...89-page-7.html

    Irrespective of what the fanbase says, they cannot deny what Madara said. You cannot speak for the man who witnessed Hishirama's very power. There must be a reason why he said what he said & whether you want to accept it or not, it doesn't change the fact.

    It's also quite funny that Kishi places Minato & Sarutobi above Hishirama. We have no feats suggesting such (& frankly we don't need those silly feats) but he repeatedly made it clear that those two were above Hishirama. Unless Kishi says otherwise, don't oppose his words.

  14. #372
    MH Senpai 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Uchiha_Blood's Avatar
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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    It's also quite funny that Kishi places Minato & Sarutobi above Hishirama. We have no feats suggesting such (& frankly we don't need those silly feats) but he repeatedly made it clear that those two were above Hishirama. Unless Kishi says otherwise, don't oppose his words.
    Kishi costantly ignores or goes against the databooks, things that people pay money to have, believing them to have any weight in importance.
    I don't think he cares about random interviews he made to please his fans

  15. #373
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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    Kishi costantly ignores or goes against the databooks, things that people pay money to have, believing them to have any weight in importance.
    I don't think he cares about random interviews he made to please his fans
    It wasn't just databooks or interviews but it was also implied in the manga. Kishi wasn't obligated to say whom was stronger either yet he said it (thus until he says otherwise, we can't oppose his words regardless of our doubts).

  16. #374
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member marshall313's Avatar
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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    Quote Originally Posted by IChallengeYou! View Post
    You lost your entire credibility when you have said this, why do you still bother?
    Well, that's your opinion.

    But does it OK for someone to say that minato is a bug compared to madara? Has he lost his credibility too?

    It's OK for someone to say that minato is freaking useless to any of the uchiha, especially to sasuke? Has they lost their credibility too?

    It's OK for someone to say that minato is a fodder to itachi? Does they lost their credibility too?

    If not, then saying that I lost my credibility when I said that madara is a fodder compared to hashirama is somehow a biased argument.

    Madara used the kyubi to fight hashirama? Why? Because his power isn't enough to defeat hashirama.
    Madara is just lucky on why he's still alive. While hashirama, after that fight was still alright.
    Madara hiding on the cave for how many years? Even though hashirama is already dead.
    Madara gained that rinnegan and yet he was so fond to used hashirama's jutsus, why? Because he remembered how those jutsu bitchslapped him.
    The way ha hailed hashirama's name, and the way he remembering the old times together with hashirama is kinda odd. He was no doubt jealous on hashirama's power/caliber.

    And lastly, the way kabuto defined hashirama's power as a myth like the rikudou is enough for me to say that their power level, even now, aren't comparable. It's just my opinion. Nothing more.

    That ''fodder''was specifically counter to someone's post for saying that minato is a bug. Because for God's sake, minato and hashirama are the only one who can kill madara. Not itachi and there's no way in hell that t'was sasuke.

    A bug who can kill madara in an instant isnt a useless bug at all. If that bug can't really fight madara head on, then he can seal him in an instant. End of game. Thus the bug is useless? I doubt that.

  17. #375
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member KingOfNight's Avatar
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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    It's also quite funny that Kishi places Minato & Sarutobi above Hishirama. We have no feats suggesting such (& frankly we don't need those silly feats) but he repeatedly made it clear that those two were above Hishirama. Unless Kishi says otherwise, don't oppose his words.
    Slow down there, don't involve Minato in everything. The only one that was said to be stronger than Hashirama is Hiruzen. Minato doesn't come close to Hashirama and Madara's tier.
    Last edited by KingOfNight; December 29, 2012 at 07:41 AM.

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