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Thread: Madara thread

  1. #796
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member KingOfNight's Avatar
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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    Hakuteiken

    Quote Quote:
    Um, I don't know about this, to be honest. Power of the Yang chakra? It was hinted somewhere? If so, that's fine. I might have missed it.
    Yes, hinted here. The life giving ability is the properties of Yang natured chakra.
    Last edited by KingOfNight; January 10, 2013 at 05:00 AM.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member marshall313's Avatar
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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    This thread is all about hiruzen and not minato.

    Minato has nothing to do in this thread.

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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall313 View Post
    This thread is all about hiruzen and not minato.

    Minato has nothing to do in this thread.
    ^When a Minato fan tells you something like this, you know you have done something wrong.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    @KingOfNight



    Quote Quote:
    Naruto showing the power of the Yang chakra, pretty much confirms it. He lost his Yin half.
    Never did. He showed Kurama's chakra and nothing more.

    Quote Quote:
    Yes, hinted here. The life giving ability is the properties of Yang natured chakra.
    Hinted? Its clearly stated what it is here:
    http://www.mangareader.net/93-56332-...apter-505.html

    Its Kurama's chakra. Thing is its effected by the will aparently. If it has Kurama's will and he is bad then it goes evil, Naruto taking it and purifing it ends up good. No idea how you got to this conclusion... Aparently even the ability to detect evil was intact to Hashirama's wife.

    Before Naruto removed the will and he whent tails it burned crep and it was pure poison even hard to breath in it...

  7. #800
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member KingOfNight's Avatar
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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    @KingOfNight





    Never did. He showed Kurama's chakra and nothing more.



    Hinted? Its clearly stated what it is here:
    http://www.mangareader.net/93-56332-...apter-505.html

    Its Kurama's chakra. Thing is its effected by the will aparently. If it has Kurama's will and he is bad then it goes evil, Naruto taking it and purifing it ends up good. No idea how you got to this conclusion... Aparently even the ability to detect evil was intact to Hashirama's wife.
    Yes...it's Kurama's chakra. What about it ?

    What's in my mind only ? What's the point of this reply ? I don't get it ?
    Last edited by KingOfNight; January 10, 2013 at 08:52 AM.

  8. #801
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Not stating its imposible just that i don't see it happening. Minato was relevant for Naruto, the main guy. It was about Kurama and control. Then he was tied to the main bad guy, well Tobi was at that time... Not sure now.

    So did several other caracter but they where damn good in there old age. Also special powers? Who cares.... If that was 1vs1 i could understand but it was Sarutobi + Konoha ffs... No excuses there for his bad performance.
    True, but we didn't know he'd be relevant, just like how we don't know if Hiruzen will be relevant. He can still make an appearance... he already did when Danzou had a flashback. HIruzen could still be tied to Naruto or Madara somehow.

    Special power is what enabled many shinobi to take on bijuu. But, Hiruzen and Konoha managed to push the Kyuubi back... Kyuubi, the most powerful bijuu at the time. Quite a mean feat even if Hiruzen did need Konoha to help.



    Quote Quote:
    You know when you stated "only because" its absurd man. Its his kill... Fact is just about anybody else is better then him (top tier). What you whant to start stating how horible Sarutobi is because with no Emma (spelling) he would be horible vs Oro and his 2 EDO's?

    What did Hidan use? I forgot? Was it any tipe of jutsu that effects only Biju's like K does to Superman? Or sharingan, mokuton and so on to Kurama? Was it a special ability? If Hidan used his magic circle is irrelevant.
    Not really, since Minato's unknown. But the point is, something special is needed to take on the bijuu, at least alone. Minato needed Hiraishin, the Fourth Kazekage needed gold mixed with sand, Third Raikage needed tough body, etc. It's how they could take on bijuu on their own, while Hiruzen has no such power to speak of. Even Danzou had Mokuton and Sharingan to help him (theoretically).

    Hidan takes the blood of his victim and does a ritual. If he gets hurt, the victim feels the same pain too. Hidan killed Asuma by stabbing himself in a vital area. His special ability affects any living thing that bleeds.

    It's not irrelevant. Though I think we're talking about bijuu, not jinchuuriki. In that case, Hiruzen would stand a better chance because jinchuuriki are limited, as we see with Naruto and his bijuu mode.



    Quote Quote:
    Who cares HE DID had it. I am not arguing with you if Minato would be better if you remove his most vital skills... Nobody is removing anything from Sarutobi... Minato's skill is perfecly legit AND its not a keke... This showes how GOOD he was.
    You don't understand the point here. I'm saying, a special ability is required to take on a bijuu alone. Hiruzen had none, hence why he needed backup. Even then they still pushed back the Kyuubi.



    Quote Quote:
    No he sealed half of its chakra. Not yin/yang. That is long forgoten and retconed. Both times when Minato is adresing it its made clear its just half its chakra/power. He made it clear that is the max he can seal as anything more is imposible. If he could he would have sealed 75% or whatever. It has nothing to do with yin/yang anymore.
    How does that go against him sealing yin/yang? Yin or yang can still be half of Kyuubi's power. I doubt he'd have sealed that much since the Kyuubi was meant for Naruto.



    Quote Quote:
    Well obviously as it has 9 but to asume its this powerfull when its at half power makes me scrach my head...

    Then his chakra mode is just as big as the 8 tails. You can argue here its just chakra but its a reprezentation of Kurama's form. So she does have the same hight she used to have... Even when poping out of CT and you can remember hot big it was... That CT was formed out of MOUNTAINS.
    Considerin that it still looks as small as it did after Minato sealed half of its chakra, it's hard to believe it got its chakra back. I think the Kyuubi's claw was big enough to make a huge hole in Minato and Kushina, but now its claw doesn't look big enough to do that damage. Kyuubi was a lot larger than what we see now.

    Why would Minato seal half of Kyuubi's chakra with Death God seal if the Kyuubi was just gonna get its chakra back? Makes no sense.



    Quote Quote:
    Why would anybody if having the chanse give a gun to a cop to defend him and not a random x individual with no skill in gun usage? Your answer its simple, those where better that that job.
    Think about it, we know Kakashi can do it BUT he used the dogs to go after Zabuza after he was marked. That had a double use as it also grabed Zabuza so he can't get away but still.
    Doesn't make any sense here as we see no one else using their nose throughout the manga. If all it took was chakra to the nose, then Sakura should theoretically be the best since her chakra control is among the best.

    The dogs were used as surprise attacks, not because Kakashi was unable to track or was worse. Kakashi himself could have gotten Zabuza, but he needed to surprise Zabuza and hold him down. The dogs were able to do that without a problem.



    Quote Quote:
    Why would JMan use his nouse to track Tsunade? If i would be him i would put up a barrier but anyhow i don't get it, Tsunade?

    Its no need to see the entire world. Its not something specific or hard. Its puting chakra in your nouse. Its easy as hell. Yeah perhaps they can't do it as good and i can give you that but diverting chakra to there nouse... Come on lol.
    Easier to find her than asking people around? Not only that, but he could have detected whether anyone was with Tsunade by smelling another scent on her. Trackin via smell would have been more useful than asking people around.

    Apparently that's not easy, since it's hard enough to put enough chakra on foot to walk on trees, and to keep constant amount of chakra flowing like walking on water. If it was easy, why bother summoning dogs to track someone like Sasuke, Gaara, or Itachi?

  9. #802
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    @M3J

    Quote Quote:
    Special power is what enabled many shinobi to take on bijuu. But, Hiruzen and Konoha managed to push the Kyuubi back... Kyuubi, the most powerful bijuu at the time. Quite a mean feat even if Hiruzen did need Konoha to help.
    I don't care what it enabled. Minato used the teleport only to save Sarutobi's arse. He stoped Kurama with seals and seals alone. He even had a shield that would not allow Kurama to leave.

    Diference is from Minato stoping it alone to Sarutobi doing crep nothing with a village behind his arse. Again i could understand if it was a 1vs1 but like this? Patetic. This si the godlike shinobi as Kishi puts it.

    Also they pushed out Kurama when Tobi lost control of Kurama and that gave them an opening.. Why do you think it happened at the same exact time? Even there and Minato saved there buts.

    Quote Quote:
    Not really, since Minato's unknown. But the point is, something special is needed to take on the bijuu, at least alone. Minato needed Hiraishin, the Fourth Kazekage needed gold mixed with sand, Third Raikage needed tough body, etc. It's how they could take on bijuu on their own, while Hiruzen has no such power to speak of. Even Danzou had Mokuton and Sharingan to help him (theoretically).
    No. Minato can stop it with hos seals alone... Kurama was NOT stoped by his ST... ST only saved Hiruzen's arse.

    Sarutobi not having jutsus to stop Kurama with an entire village when he was said to be the strongest Kage and a godlike shinobi is just epic lol.

    Quote Quote:
    Hidan takes the blood of his victim and does a ritual. If he gets hurt, the victim feels the same pain too. Hidan killed Asuma by stabbing himself in a vital area. His special ability affects any living thing that bleeds.
    The victim most defenetly does not feelt the same pain. The victim does get hurt the same way but the pain is diferent. Some people can take it more easy then some. Also Hidan could not do anything that would kill the host. So non letal force only.... Also i don't remember him getting it from a biju, only a host. Does it even work on a biju?


    Quote Quote:
    It's not irrelevant. Though I think we're talking about bijuu, not jinchuuriki. In that case, Hiruzen would stand a better chance because jinchuuriki are limited, as we see with Naruto and his bijuu mode.
    Same question as above. It was on a host not a biju from what i remember. I would love to see Hidan get blood from Kurama and then starting to kill himself to hurt Kurama... That would be epic lol...

    Quote Quote:
    You don't understand the point here. I'm saying, a special ability is required to take on a bijuu alone. Hiruzen had none, hence why he needed backup. Even then they still pushed back the Kyuubi.
    1 Naruto did it with nothing but seals.
    2 Sarutobi did had backup and that is the point. He failed completly WITH said help...

    From my part you don't understand the point, point is Sarutobi with help FAILED BADLY. If he was 1vs1 (said this a lot of times now) i could understand but when Minato can seal the bloody thing away and stop its movements with shields and he can't do crep shit (sorry for the language) with the bloody village behind his back it get's completly ridicolus for the man stated to be the strongest Kage and godlike.

    Quote Quote:
    How does that go against him sealing yin/yang? Yin or yang can still be half of Kyuubi's power. I doubt he'd have sealed that much since the Kyuubi was meant for Naruto.
    It does as Minato states he is sealing as much chakra as he can. He does not state anything about sealing the yang or yin chakra or anything of the likes. He said about chakra capacity and how much is possible for a man to seal. Seriously its retconed.
    In part 1 people could summon ET zombies from the DG belly and people could stop said summons with handseals... Then in part 2 was made clear by Kabuto that this is imposible.

    Quote Quote:
    Considerin that it still looks as small as it did after Minato sealed half of its chakra, it's hard to believe it got its chakra back. I think the Kyuubi's claw was big enough to make a huge hole in Minato and Kushina, but now its claw doesn't look big enough to do that damage. Kyuubi was a lot larger than what we see now.
    If nothing else Kishi is bad with sizes. Even in curent chapters. Looked at this stuff before. In 1 panel naruto is bigger then that monkey biju teeths and in other smaller ... or something like that. I don't remember exacly and to lazy to look for them.
    Quote Quote:
    Why would Minato seal half of Kyuubi's chakra with Death God seal if the Kyuubi was just gonna get its chakra back? Makes no sense.
    Think of what 50% did to Minato, a full grown man. It left him close to incapacitated. Sealing the entire thing in a newborn would be to dangerous. It does make sense. Then as Naruto grows up and Kurama regenerates all will be well as Naruto grows with it.

    Obviously its not direcly stated but that is how it looked to me.

    Quote Quote:
    Doesn't make any sense here as we see no one else using their nose throughout the manga. If all it took was chakra to the nose, then Sakura should theoretically be the best since her chakra control is among the best.
    Depends. Aside for, perhaps when she was a little kid and in the mist when did she need it?

    Quote Quote:
    Easier to find her than asking people around? Not only that, but he could have detected whether anyone was with Tsunade by smelling another scent on her. Trackin via smell would have been more useful than asking people around.
    Depends on the situation, it depends on the plot and other thing. Detecting her in an entire city is not the same as doing it when she get's into close proximity like with Sarutobi and the 2 kages... The number of people and smells .... It would make it to hard... Also Sarutobi did not track anybody in an entire city. It was close proximity, melee distance actualy.

    Quote Quote:
    Apparently that's not easy, since it's hard enough to put enough chakra on foot to walk on trees, and to keep constant amount of chakra flowing like walking on water. If it was easy, why bother summoning dogs to track someone like Sasuke, Gaara, or Itachi?
    Because those can do it better and because what i said just above. People showed it in h2h range. Not accross huge distances.

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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    @Uchiha_Blood

    Someone can take half my blood away... FOREVER... Gues what... I can make more. So this is irrelevant.

    The other links are just as ??? marks as aparently it was retconed. Those are not relevant anymore. Minato would have sad if it was Yin or Yang. All he stated is that he is sealing half the chakra in himself as more then that is IMPOSIBLE. He addresed it clear enough... He sealed some of its power in himself and some in Naruto. Nothing about Yin/Yang crep.

    Part 1 you can summon crep from DG sealing jutsu. Part 2 and Kishi needing it not to happend and aparently you can't... Retcons..

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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    You don't understand the point here. I'm saying, a special ability is required to take on a bijuu alone. Hiruzen had none, hence why he needed backup. Even then they still pushed back the Kyuubi.
    Define special ability.
    If by special ability you mean Mokuton and Sharingan's suppression abilities, then Third and Fourth Raikage, Hidan and Kakuzu, Tobi and Deidara and finally Naruto showed to be able to match Bijuus without them.

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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    @Uchiha_Blood


    Minato defeated Kurama with nothing but seals. ST was needed to save Sarutobi's old arse.

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    Define special ability.
    If by special ability you mean Mokuton and Sharingan's suppression abilities, then Third and Fourth Raikage, Hidan and Kakuzu, Tobi and Deidara and finally Naruto showed to be able to match Bijuus without them.
    Naruto himself is a Jinchuuriki, so, he's a bit irrelevant.
    Aside from that, a Kekkei Genkai needed to counter it, or, you have to be like the Raikage with super durable bodies.

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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    @Uchiha_Blood

    Someone can take half my blood away... FOREVER... Gues what... I can make more. So this is irrelevant.

    The other links are just as ??? marks as aparently it was retconed. Those are not relevant anymore. Minato would have sad if it was Yin or Yang. All he stated is that he is sealing half the chakra in himself as more then that is IMPOSIBLE. He addresed it clear enough... He sealed some of its power in himself and some in Naruto. Nothing about Yin/Yang crep.

    Part 1 you can summon crep from DG sealing jutsu. Part 2 and Kishi needing it not to happend and aparently you can't... Retcons..
    How it is retconned if Yondaime's summoning failed?
    Kabuto said pretty clearly Oro failed to summon Yondaime because his soul was trapped.

    As for the sealing issue, how it is retconned? What suggests that Kyuubi regained that missing half, when Yondaime and Jiraiya, the two most knowledgeable guys in the matter said otherwise?

  17. #809
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    @Uchiha_Blood


    Minato defeated Kurama with nothing but seals. ST was needed to save Sarutobi's old arse.
    Minato didn't defeat the Kyuubi. He had no way to handle it on his own.
    His greatest technique is Hiraishin, and you cannot take down a Bijuu with a kunai.

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    Re: The 3rd Hokage is PROBABLY stronger than Madara

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    @Uchiha_Blood


    Minato defeated Kurama with nothing but seals. ST was needed to save Sarutobi's old arse.
    Are seals special abilities?
    That's my point, one can subdue a Bijuu without having haxed and convenient abilities

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    Naruto himself is a Jinchuuriki, so, he's a bit irrelevant.
    Aside from that, a Kekkei Genkai needed to counter it, or, you have to be like the Raikage with super durable bodies.
    In their battle though he couldn't access Kyuubi's chakra, so that was all him until Kushina showed up.
    As for Gekkei Kenkais, Hidan, Kakuzu, Deidara and Yondaime did so without them, if I'm not mistaken ( I remember all of their abilities being Hijutsus )

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