Garp, Sengoku & Rayleigh Vs The Admirals

[MaiSiaoSiao]

Another thing, if Croc had been able to soak the water off Luffy's skin, then Luffy wouldnt have beaten him. AND, Croc explains in the Impel Down/Marineford arc, when he destroys the door, that he uses his hand to absorb water, since he placed his hand on the door, he placed it on the ground when he shriveled up everything at the palace, and was holding Luffy/Mr. 3 when they were drying up

Luffy was able to beat Crocodile because he drink alot of water and kept it inside him.And pump it to other parts of his body when they wwere being dehydrated.Plus he spat water on Crocodile "disabling" his abilities so that he cant dissolve into sand.Thats why luffy could hit Crocodile.

[Franckie]

Why are people picking 3 top-tier fighters who are 20 years out of their prime vs 3 top fighters who are still in their prime? Rayleigh was losing to Kizaru. Blackbeard (+crew) taunted Sengoku + Garp to a fight, yet ran from Akainu. Aokiji is equal in strength to Kizaru and Akainu. The 3 Admirals win this fight with mild difficulty because Garp, Rayleigh and Sengoku have lost too much power at their age to be a major threat to an Admiral.

[Bobbina]

BB taunted Sengoku and Garp cuz he can actually fight them. Akainu's a logia and BB doesnt no haki. He doesnt need haki that much in a fight with Sengoku/Garp.

Then HOw did LUffy beat Croc when he had a bunch of blood on his body? he didn't have it in his body and pump it around. Plus if what u said was true, then Croc could have absorbed all the water that Luffy spat on him

[LeKuaSimi]

Croc needed his right hand to drain water. Did everyone forget that?

[Bobbina]

Yes LeKua, thats what i was talking about.

[BlackHair]

Why are people picking 3 top-tier fighters who are 20 years out of their prime vs 3 top fighters who are still in their prime? Rayleigh was losing to Kizaru. Blackbeard (+crew) taunted Sengoku + Garp to a fight, yet ran from Akainu. Aokiji is equal in strength to Kizaru and Akainu. The 3 Admirals win this fight with mild difficulty because Garp, Rayleigh and Sengoku have lost too much power at their age to be a major threat to an Admiral.

Just 'cause they are not in their prime anymore, doesn't automatically mean they would lose to the current Admirals. Also using BB as a measurement is no real argument. He wasn't taunting only Sengoku and Garp, in fact he taunted the whole MHQ. Also he thought he could beat WB with his darkness fruit, though he ended up being crushed.

Granted, Rayleigh was loosing to Kizaru, however unlike everyone else, we know little to nothing about Gap and Sengoku. Garp is portrayed by the manga as Roger's equal with WB. We know that the current Admirals couldn't beat WB even though the had several advantages.

So Im forced to vote for Tie, since we are lacking informations. Either way, it won't be a easy win for any side, that much is clear.

[beastboy]

I voted Tie.
I would vote for Admirals, but then I remembered Sengoku holding Garp down so that him wouldn't kill Sakazuki. Of course it doesn't indicate Garp>Sakazuki, but it certainly indicates that Sakazuki wouldn't have an easy fight.
And Garp might be hold but he is not dumb, if he knew that he couldn't kill Sakazuki, he wouldn't have said that.

Sengoku did pretty well in the few things we saw him doing...
And Rayleagh was holding Kizaru pretty well, he was tired, but he wasn't loosing.

Less Stamina =/= Would Lose

Rayleagh was tired, but judging by his words (wanting to deal with booth, Kizaru and Kuma) I don't think he would lose against Kizaru...

So a Tie, until more evidence its provided.

[BlackHair]

While I agree with ur vote I've to disagree with ur part about Rayleigh.

And Rayleagh was holding Kizaru pretty well, he was tired, but he wasn't loosing.

I believe we had this discussion before. If damage-lines such as heavy breathing, sweating and the damage on his coat does not indicate "loosing" then what else?

Rayleagh was tired, but judging by his words (wanting to deal with booth, Kizaru and Kuma) I don't think he would lose against Kizaru...

He wanted to deal with him. Keyword in here is "wanted to". But he couldn't since Kiz was more than trouble for him already.

Croco also wanted to take WB's head, just like Buggy. Does that mean they were capable of doing that? No, same case with Rayleigh.

[Bobbina]

If Croc really thought he couldn't beat WB, would he gone after him? In brute force, WB owns Croc anyday. But Croc had the element of surprise and thought he could ambush WB. Buggy's just stupid. Rayleigh was thinking that he could help the SH and stop the WG from achieving their goals, (so basically winning, the title doesn't say defeat, there's a difference.) with a little help of wit and strategy. Sengoku wouldn't be Fleet Admiral if he was so good at strategies and fighting. The WG's policies would have the Admirals overrule Fleet Admiral if they were better. Garp wouldn't be so famous if he was the Retired hero of the marines. The fact that he is still so feared and admired, means that his power, hasn't gone down that far. The admirals' would have a good fight, but not so powerful to beat them. Maybe tie, but probably not beat.


Think about it like this. Garp and Rayleigh and Sengoku all know haki, and can counteract Kizaru's speed with CoO, Can defeat their Logia's with CoA, I assume Sengoku could use shockwaves to destroy Aokiji's ice creations, And Akainu's power, I'd say could be defeated with CoA.

(This is all my opinion, and we haven't seen much of Garp nor Sengoku, so what they can actually do, I don't know. Feel free to disagree reasonably, and don't take my comments badly, I try to make as little criticism as possible, but occasionally some slip)

[SoshiBoySooyoung]

Sengoku's Buddha palm shockwave = Win

[bittman]

Think about it like this. Garp and Rayleigh and Sengoku all know haki, and can counteract Kizaru's speed with CoO, Can defeat their Logia's with CoA, I assume Sengoku could use shockwaves to destroy Aokiji's ice creations, And Akainu's power, I'd say could be defeated with CoA.

The Admirals also have haki, it's a bit of a moot point. Could potentially argue that the old farts are better at haki than the logia admirals, but even then there's no evidence.



If I go into the depths of their powers, all three admirals have ridiculously great ranged attacks. Rayleigh is shown to be without a fruit, and thus close-range. Garp is also a close range fighter unless he resorts to throwing cannonballs, leaving Sengoku as the only potential mid-long range fighter in the old farts.

Also, I doubt Akainu's power could be defeated with CoA. Shanks, the overhyped "haki master" to some, didnt "defeat" Akainu's fist, but merely blocked. There is a vast difference there. No-one counteracted Kizaru's speed. Rayleigh stopped the mirror movement technique, but that is not Kizaru's primary movement method, merely a way to move great distances in an instant. And ice structures are not Aokoji's most fearsome technique, his OHKO of freezing your very body is though, and if Jozu's raw power could be easily contained by it, the three old farts are doubtfully going to break free.

P.S. Lol buddha palm.

[Bobbina]

Well, I'm saying that the "old farts"' haki can counteract their DF's. And sorry for the language failure, I meant to say counteract, instead of defeat, but that would be repetitive. And about CoO, I didn't believe Kizaru could be countered with CoO when I saw that. I was thinking that, (if my theory that CoO is basically enhanced senses and interpereting them in an understanding way.) The three "farts" could predict where he would go, especially if its true that Kizaru can only move in a straight line. And with Aokiji, his freezing moves are short-ranged. He has to touch the object that he freezes. And when he trys to get to the old "farts", Sengoku could have owned him, or Garp/Rayleigh could have attacked him. Fending off a frontal charge in which the enemy his fighting with fists is much easier than charging a suspecting enemy with super reactions/power. Besides, I doubt the old farts are gonna use raw power to break out of the ice. Shanks was never trying to defeat Akainu. He was just saving Coby. That's extremely hard, to block a full on, huge fist of lava while unsheathing your blade, while actually going to that spot, and not letting a person right in harms way get hurt. I doubt Shanks could counteract, even if he wanted to. Akainu's pros: Logia, hard to hit. (countered with CoA)
Extremely hot. (Countered if you don't touch him)
Can fire LOTS of big projectiles. (Countered with CoO and insane reflexes)
When hit, will burn you. (Countered with the "suit of armor known as CoA.)
Can flow to move around very quickly, even flying. (Countered with insane jumping and speed and CoO.)
Knows haki. (Countered with basically more haki and insane power/speed/physical skills/DF)
Aggressiveness, and heartlessness. (Since everyone is gonna fight anyway, not really helpful here.)
Sorry if I don't include some, but that's pretty much what it is.

Ah..... Screw repetitiveness and super grammar naziness. I'll just say what I say in whatever words fit

[Franckie]

Just 'cause they are not in their prime anymore, doesn't automatically mean they would lose to the current Admirals. Also using BB as a measurement is no real argument. He wasn't taunting only Sengoku and Garp, in fact he taunted the whole MHQ. Also he thought he could beat WB with his darkness fruit, though he ended up being crushed.

The 3 old fighters not being in their prime is the chief reason they'd lose. When all things are apparently "equal", stamina is the deciding factor, and old age causes stamina issues. There's other factors to consider as well. In terms of feats, powerscaling, and plot importance, the 3 Admirals win out on all 3.

BB gives us a pretty good idea on the respective differences. Fighting broke out between the BB Pirates and Sengoku + Garp - which is not a "neutral" fighting ground that you tend to emphasize - before Shanks and crew intervened. Later on, when BB and crew learn Akainu is approaching, all of them flee. What do you think that implies? That the BB pirates cannot defeat Akainu without suffering heavy losses themselves (we saw a similar thing occur during BB vs Ace) and that Akainu is stronger than either Sengoku or Garp.

As for WB, yes, BB was careless and came close to dying. Nonetheless, BB tanked a bisento slash across the chest and a quake to the head without incurring fatal damage.

Granted, Rayleigh was loosing to Kizaru, however unlike everyone else, we know little to nothing about Gap and Sengoku. Garp is portrayed by the manga as Roger's equal with WB. We know that the current Admirals couldn't beat WB even though the had several advantages.

Garp is not portrayed as Roger's equal. Garp is portrayed as someone who is (was) close to Roger's level during his prime. At one point, Garp and Roger may have been equal to each other, or Garp was even stronger than Roger (e.g. Luffy-Smoker), but Garp, at his prime, was not equal to prime Roger.

Current WB cannot defeat an Admiral without getting KO'd himself. The best showing he had against an Admiral was Akainu, who came out on top. Akainu was winning against WB in direct combat and fared better than WB did when WB sneak-attacked him.

On a side note, the only "advantage" the Admirals had against WB was WB's old age. Other "advantages" such as Squado's stab wound and fighting on Marineford did not grant the Admirals a magical boost in power. Squado's stab is unsubstantiated considering WB tanked far worse (e.g. Kizaru's lasers); WB had preparation time that was used to cancel out MHQ's home advantage, WB had unexpected back-up in the form of Luffy and company; and the Admirals engaged WB in 1on1 skirmishes, two of which involved WB launching a surprise attack on an Admiral.

[Bobbina]

Franck, I've said this already: BB didn't know haki, therefore couldn't fight Akainu too well without being owned. Even if he did, remember? When BB was there he challenged the whole of Marineford. That meant including the other admirals. Besides BB was probably running away because there was no need for such injuries. At marineford, He was symbolizing the start of a new era, in which he was the ruler. Also, the fact that Akainu was present meant that the WG wouldn't be willingly. giving BB a ship, and that meant that they were trying to fight and kill BB, and just staying to fight Akainu wouldn't go unnoticed, the marines getting vital info or sending reinforcements, in which needless injuries would be present. Anyway, you can't possibly think that with so much marine forces, including Sengoku and Garp together, is weaker then Akainu? About WB, I think BB's power is to absorb things, including attacks, and therefore not getting fatally injured, yet still feeling pain. He's still a logia, after all.
BTW, The reason why we're insisting that the 3 oldies'll win is cuz we think they're better in power, whereas, not as powerful in stamina. Do u remember Garp tossing those cannonballs? he was about to toss 1000 of em. Have u ever tried tossing a ball 1000 times? Even just making the motion? Pretty sure that means Garp could do his super punch more than 1000 times. Less than before, of course, but still hella powerful


As much as I agree with ur first paragraph, I have to disagree. WB was gonna defeat Akainu, if he hadn't thought that sending him to the bottoms of marineford wasn't enough. Sure, Akainu wouldve dealt him a big one, but the way WB was just striking Akainu, I'm sure Akainu wouldn't have left the battlefield on his feet, stable. Besides Akainu was doing better cuz hes a logia. Most people there couldn't hit Akainu, whereas WB giant size and his position as commander stopped him from moving to avoid enemy attacks. Also, Akainu wasn't the main force. WB was the most important person on the pirates side, so many people aimed for him. Sure Akainu was also important, but there was also 2 other admirals. Plus the pirates' objective was to save Ace, not to destroy the Marines. The Marines were trying to defeat them, by destroying their army.
As I have stated, Akainu had no wounds about, and WB had like 100's of cuts and bullets, as well as swords still stuck in him. Plus a few cannonballs. Plus his mental wounds. He had lost so much, including men, like Moars (mini oars) and Ace and alot of men, his ships, etc. Also Squard's betrayal. He understood why, and had Squard apologize and all, but it still pains him. Akainu didn't have much of a disadvantage when he was "surprise attacked." The fact that he retaliated right after one blow meant that he had recovered and was able to attack again, but still was defeated. Also, the back-up didn't matter, as the fight was over before WB's men even got there. Besides, Luffy couldn't help WB, even if he wanted to at the time. Nor any other important people. On another note, he was fighting well against the admirals; he wasn't losing. Besides, how did he have surprise attacks? Other than the one against Akainu after he killed Ace, the admirals surprise attacked HIM.WB was gonna attack the marines then Aokiji froze him. The other time he was gonna attack the marines again, but Akainu blocked his attack. How is that launching a surprise attack?


P.S. If Garp wasn't so powerful, would they have cheered so much when he started fighting? They didn't do THAT when the admirals moved out. Sure, it was grand, but Garp's entrance, everyone was all, "ITS HIM! THE LEGENDARY MARINE!!"

[Fox666]

BB didn't know haki

Blackbeard was the first character to use the word "Haki" in the manga