Vice Admirals vs Pacifista

[Dark God Zeus]

On the Vice Admiral side

Momonga
Onigumo
John Giant
Tsuru
Ronse

vs

Kuma (PX0, with paw ability)
four as-seen Pacifista, with "ally detection" off (IE, they will kill their allies).

Basically I'm seeing these two as the ultimate mobile attack forces (since the admirals/fleet admirals have to remain static).

[kkck]

John giant and ronse seem less than impressive but momonga, onigumu and tsuru could be trouble. If the VA rank holds any merit then what luffy did to one of them should not be out of the scope of their power. Tsuru's ability could put a pacifista out of comission potentially very fast. not too sure about how they would fare against kuma though. Garp should be quite capable of punching through a horde of pacifista though.

[vagabond87]

VA all the way...
You underestimating power of VA. Only Kuma can do something against them.
For everyone who thinks that Luffy could defeat Momonga before time skip- give somoeone at least as strong physically as Lucci sword and haki, then put pre-war Luffy against that person.
Current Luffy is on strongest VA level but still not on Adimral level.
Pacifistas are fodder for Luffy now, same for Vice Admirals.

John giant and ronse seem less than impressive but momonga, onigumu and tsuru could be trouble. If the VA rank holds any merit then what luffy did to one of them should not be out of the scope of their power. Tsuru's ability could put a pacifista out of comission potentially very fast. not too sure about how they would fare against kuma though. Garp should be quite capable of punching through a horde of pacifista though.

Luffy didnt do anything against any VA. You are probably writing about guy from the Gigant squad that Luffy taken out with Gigant Rifle, but he wasnt Vice Admiral.

[kkck]

I am not even sure luffy could defeat a VA right now. They have been fighting for 20 years or more for the most part, I don't think luffy right now would have a particularly easy time against the VAs that matter at least. IMO the VA should be held in a similar regard to the commanders, shichibukai or even admirals.

[zelllogan]

I seriously think that kuma can beat all those vice admirals alone.
So far, VA didn't do anything worth remembering (VA did nothing but watch at Enies Lobby, VA did almost nothing during the war).

Since we know that all VA have Haki & some rokushiki, I really think they are overrated. I even go as far as telling that smoker is porbably a bigger pain in the ass than most VA. I may underrate them myself but with what we have seen, they seriously have shown nothing. When marines or shishibukai are talking about lucci , I have the impression that he was the best rokushiki user , way better than VA.

The main argument to say they are strong is that VA is one of the highest ranking. I agree it's a good argument but I still see VA as a rank more than a strength indication

[kkck]

It's true that we have not seen the VAs do much however its not like we have seen them repeatedly fail (even ronse and john giant were taken out by WB which does not make them weak). I think oda intentionally did not show the VAs during the war to have something to show later.

[Fox666]

I seriously think that kuma can beat all those vice admirals alone.
So far, VA didn't do anything worth remembering (VA did nothing but watch at Enies Lobby, VA did almost nothing during the war).

Since we know that all VA have Haki & some rokushiki, I really think they are overrated. I even go as far as telling that smoker is porbably a bigger pain in the ass than most VA. I may underrate them myself but with what we have seen, they seriously have shown nothing. When marines or shishibukai are talking about lucci , I have the impression that he was the best rokushiki user , way better than VA.

The main argument to say they are strong is that VA is one of the highest ranking. I agree it's a good argument but I still see VA as a rank more than a strength indication

Agree, Kuma alone could be a worth match...

Smoker is strongly underestimated because of his rank as captain/commodore. But seriously, the moment he was introduced (as a captain) he would eat Commoder Purin Purin (a higher rank than him) in the breakfast. And Marineford arc Smoker would wash the floor with the Vice-Admirals. And I wouldn't expect otherwise from Rob Lucci or Sentoumaru.

[MonsterEnvy]

Agree, Kuma alone could be a worth match...

Smoker is strongly underestimated because of his rank as captain/commodore. But seriously, the moment he was introduced (as a captain) he would eat Commoder Purin Purin (a higher rank than him) in the breakfast. And Marineford arc Smoker would wash the floor with the Vice-Admirals. And I wouldn't expect otherwise from Rob Lucci or Sentoumaru.

A VA would Crush Smoker they all know Haki and only 3 of them were beaten during the war 2 by Whitebeard and 1 by Whitebeard Commanders Knowing Haki is a reqaerment for being a VA

the VA's win Haki enmpowered attacks have been show to smash Pasifista's the only one that should give Problems is Kuma
Smoker would crush Purin Purin

[vagabond87]

Agree, Kuma alone could be a worth match...

Smoker is strongly underestimated because of his rank as captain/commodore. But seriously, the moment he was introduced (as a captain) he would eat Commoder Purin Purin (a higher rank than him) in the breakfast. And Marineford arc Smoker would wash the floor with the Vice-Admirals. And I wouldn't expect otherwise from Rob Lucci or Sentoumaru.

Sorry what???
How wrong you are here... They all know haki, are skilled all round fighters. For Rob Lucci is weaker than most of VA- he doesnt have haki and is hand to hand fighter(most of VA are skilled with swords). Sentomaru is perfect example how strong VA probably are or shpuld be.

[Fox666]

I don't see any point on this "OMG Haki user" argument


Marguerite know Haki, can she beat Smoker?

Gedatsu know Haki, can he beat Smoker?


Nuff said

[zelllogan]

Aisa know Haki ... In the chapter discussion thread, there are even people telling us that Devil fruit users can swim using Haki ..

I hope Haki doesn't become as 'Hax' as some people believe.

Edit: remove some stupid remarks ... unfortunately too late ... Already quoted.

[Fox666]

Hatchan is only 1 step from beating Smoker

---

I think that is not correct. It wouldn't make sense for ranks being different from place to place, since a marine can be transfered.

Either way if that is possible, since East Blue is the "weakest sea" I would expect exact the opposite (a "lieutenant" in Grand Line having the authority of a "Captain" from East Blue).

I think that you misinterpretated a line from Smoker. At one stance he tells Tashigi that "there are people weaker than me with higher ranks". Which makes completely sense since Smoker is the kind that tells his superiors to eat shit.

[kkck]

Aisa know Haki ... In the chapter discussion thread, there are even people telling us that Devil fruit users can swim using Haki ..

I hope Haki doesn't become as 'Hax' as some people believe.


Possible ... but I wouldn't be surprised if marine ranks are different in the new world.
We already know that a "captain" from East blue is normally only a "lieutenant" in grand line (it was said somewhere in the manga).

Somewhere? I don't remember anything even close to that ever being said. Think you can provide a a link? Anyways, I don't think that is precisely the case, a VA in the NW should be a VA in the grand line or anywhere else. VA in particulars should be relevant in any section of the seal. Just dealing with WB was enough of a threat to gather every relevant marine possible. I can't imagine the marines being able to deal with yonkou on a regular basis if only the admirals are strong, the VA should be a sizeably powerful force for them to be able to do their part.

[Fox666]

I can't imagine the marines being able to deal with yonkou on a regular basis if only the admirals are strong, the VA should be a sizeably powerful force for them to be able to do their part.

If you ask me, I don't like it myself. However, that said, what I like or not isn't what I use to judge the power level of a character.

It seems that when it comes to "organizations", there is a small number of top tier fighters.

Of the 3 Great Powers that rule the world, you have the 7 pirates of the Shichibukai, a few officers in the Marines (Kong is techinically not a marine anymore, and once Sengoku and Garp resigned there are only the 3 Admirals we know left), and the Yonkou themselves along with 2 or 3 elite crewmates.

Again, I don't like it myself. However, once it's more than clear established that the Shichibukai are only 7 individuals with limited subordinates, and that organizations is supposed to be equal in military power to the Marines, it cannot be otherwise for the marines not having so many top fighters.

[zelllogan]

most of VA are skilled with swords

most VA have swords ... We don't know if they are skilled.

And that argument can be used for rokushiki & Haki as well. We don't know how proficient they are with Haki and Rokushiki.

The only VA so far that gave me a good impression was Momonga. But it wasn't a exceptional impression. If his Haki or speed was so good, why did he need to stab himself in front of Hancock ? Why couldn't he kill Luffy with his sword ?