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Thread: A Song of Ice and Fire (Original Book Series) [SPOILERS - BEWARE]

  1. #31
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    Re: Song of Ice and Fire (Original Book Series)

    I'm really dying of waiting. Hope the book will be big, because it would be a pity to have something like 500 pages, while we have so many characters and plotlines to be revealed.

    Also it would be interesting to see if those two Targariens will unite. Even though I don't like Deineris, but it would be more logical for them to be together to rule the Kingdom.
    And of course Starks should come back to Winterfel.

  2. #32
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    Re: Song of Ice and Fire (Original Book Series)

    I would expect a lot more twists and turns. There are some obvious things that aren't really secrets anymore, but I also think GRRM as intentionally misdirected the readers with some things.

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    Re: Song of Ice and Fire (Original Book Series)

    Totally agree with you, but that's given. Still the last big twists for me were the role of ex-head of Royal Guard when he revealed himself to Deineris and became her bodyguard and also even more when it was revealed that Reigar's son Eigon is alive. Even though I was a bit dissapointed because of the death of Kivan Lanister. Even though he was an antagonist I liked him.
    Also I believe we will learn the mystery around those White Walkers. That's actually the creepy thing, but I really want the story to turn more in that direction and it would be also a good oportunity to unite Vesteros.

  4. #34
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    Re: Song of Ice and Fire (Original Book Series)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    Totally agree with you, but that's given. Still the last big twists for me were the role of ex-head of Royal Guard when he revealed himself to Deineris and became her bodyguard and also even more when it was revealed that Reigar's son Eigon is alive. Even though I was a bit dissapointed because of the death of Kivan Lanister. Even though he was an antagonist I liked him.
    Also I believe we will learn the mystery around those White Walkers. That's actually the creepy thing, but I really want the story to turn more in that direction and it would be also a good oportunity to unite Vesteros.
    Yeah, I liked Kevan, but his death only marked the return of The Spider

    I think we might have more of that supernatural factor, but I'm not sure if we will right away. The last Bran chapter in Book 5 left me with a sense of dread for Bran and I'm not sure if we'll be hearing from him directly anymore Which is a shame, because there's something about his chapters that was just so ominous...I don't trust the Children of the Forest entirely. There's something weird about them...or at least to me. Loved Bran's story in the last book

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    Re: Song of Ice and Fire (Original Book Series)

    Totally agree with you. I also had the same ominous feeling from Bran's chapters. Also I think Children of the Forest might be somewhat connected to the Others or might have their own agenda. But I hope Bran won't dissapeer as a storyteller of at least some chapters.
    About supernatural factor... I think we might get more of it in the upcoming book, but I believe that in the next book it will become the main factor, because I hope that all the politic problems will be resolved in the upcoming book. Or at least the main politic problems, like the nemies inside Vesteros.

  6. #36
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    Re: Song of Ice and Fire (Original Book Series)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    Totally agree with you. I also had the same ominous feeling from Bran's chapters. Also I think Children of the Forest might be somewhat connected to the Others or might have their own agenda. But I hope Bran won't dissapeer as a storyteller of at least some chapters.
    About supernatural factor... I think we might get more of it in the upcoming book, but I believe that in the next book it will become the main factor, because I hope that all the politic problems will be resolved in the upcoming book. Or at least the main politic problems, like the nemies inside Vesteros.
    Bran was still obviously present in the story in later chapters (one of Reek's chapters in Winterfell) through the Weirwoods. My only concern is that if Bran takes the exact same path as Bloodraven did then he's never leaving the spot he is. He might end up being immensely more powerful and influential than he would ever be elsewhere (aside from maybe atop a dragon ). I also worry about Hodor and the Reeds and what their fate would be. That's the only thing telling me that we might get more Bran POV chapters.

    The Children of the Forest may be neutral, who knows. Not sure if I think they're connected to the Others though, considering they bother protecting themselves from the Wights.

    Oh I don't know if I see that happening to be honest. With Varys returning to the forefront, and Littlefinger plotting his schemes in the Vale I think it'll just be more chess pieces added to the game. I also remember GRRM mentioning a timeskip being possible at some point, but something tells me it won't be in the middle of the next book, more likely for the final book.

    I expect more people to come together in Meereen and the Free Cities in pursuit of Dany, and with Aegon making landfall and waging war and taking allies who knows how messier this might get

    One of the other things I'm interested in is what Victarion is going to do with that Dragon horn and his enchanted (maybe?) arm. When Moqorro translated the writing on the horn, the instructions were sort of ambiguous. Something like anyone who blows the horn will die (we knew that already from the Kingsmoot) and that the horn must be claimed in blood...not very clear what that means. Moqorro is so awesome by the way, much more skilled than Melisandre

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    Re: Song of Ice and Fire (Original Book Series)

    Actually GRRMs original plan was a timeskip after Storm of Swords. He started to write the fourth book, named Dance of Dragons, but noticed that there were changes in the world and the political field he just needed tell, and too often relied to flashbackish reminiscence. So he scrapped it all and started to fill the gap by writing Feast. Which lead to new problems, namely the "Mereneese Knot". But small time-skip at some point is still plausible.

    Or that's how I've understood the picture.

    I really started to like Victarion in Dance (though it still seems like a lot of readers hate him). It seems like all my fav characters have personal red priests.
    Last edited by Ustegius; January 15, 2012 at 10:22 AM.

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    Re: Song of Ice and Fire (Original Book Series)

    xi0
    I don't know if Bran actually can move from the place he is now. Of course he might do it with the help of Hodor, but still he will be pursued by Wights, thus for now I think he will stay there and maybe he will try to help his brother John as I hope he is alive and will kick not only Others, but also those Night Watch members who tried to kill him. Still it would have been interesting to see Bran being able to move his legs again.

    Also it would be interesting to see more about Stanis as I want to see Bolton going down. Also I hope to see Jaime Lanister being in action again and especially it would be interesting to see him on the Wall. And of course it would be great to see chess games from Varys and Littlefinger.

    I don't know if it would be interesting to see timeskip, especially if we take in concideration the situation around the Wall with Wights and Others.

  11. #39
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    Re: Song of Ice and Fire (Original Book Series)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ustegius View Post
    Actually GRRMs original plan was a timeskip after Storm of Swords. He started to write the fourth book, named Dance of Dragons, but noticed that there were changes in the world and the political field he just needed tell, and too often relied to flashbackish reminiscence. So he scrapped it all and started to fill the gap by writing Feast. Which lead to new problems, namely the "Mereneese Knot". But small time-skip at some point is still plausible.

    Or that's how I've understood the picture.

    I really started to like Victarion in Dance (though it still seems like a lot of readers hate him). It seems like all my fav characters have personal red priests.
    Ah, well I still see people talking about a timeskip at Westeros.org like it's still going to happen so who knows.

    He solved the Meereenese knot beautifully IMO by the way. The whole scene there was getting stale and annoying, and I was particularly annoyed with Dany. Making Selmy a POV character towards the end of the book wasn't only a great POV to read from, but it also gave a lot of back story not only on his life but history involving other characters.

    Yeah I like Victarion a lot. I never understood the hate for the Greyjoys really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    xi0
    I don't know if Bran actually can move from the place he is now. Of course he might do it with the help of Hodor, but still he will be pursued by Wights, thus for now I think he will stay there and maybe he will try to help his brother John as I hope he is alive and will kick not only Others, but also those Night Watch members who tried to kill him. Still it would have been interesting to see Bran being able to move his legs again.

    Also it would be interesting to see more about Stanis as I want to see Bolton going down. Also I hope to see Jaime Lanister being in action again and especially it would be interesting to see him on the Wall. And of course it would be great to see chess games from Varys and Littlefinger.

    I don't know if it would be interesting to see timeskip, especially if we take in concideration the situation around the Wall with Wights and Others.
    Not exactly sure if Bran can help Jon, and that's mainly because I don't even have the first guess on what's going on with him.

    Bolton is going down one way or the other. Not sure what the future will be for Jaime or Brienne for that matter.

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    Re: Song of Ice and Fire (Original Book Series)

    xi0
    I think Jaimee was taken by Brienne to Kat Stark. So there are two posibilities:
    1. She will kill Jaimie, but I don't see how it will contribute to the plot, so I hope this won't happen.
    2. Another posibility is that they will become allies and will try to get Riveran and Winterfell back.

    About Bran being able to help John (if he is alive, but I hope he won't die as he is my favourite character) )... that's not easy of course. Still we all remember that undead guy who was protecting Brand with his friends on their way to the Children of the Forest. If Bran will manage to make such an undead body (because I suppose it was made by that guy who teaches Bran now), then he might be of some use. Also the guy who teaches Bran... might he be some Stark (an old one of course)?

    Also I have a question. Have you ever thought about the one similarity between The Other and Rglor? They both can perform necromancy in one way or another.

    Also I don't know if it will happen, but I think it would be interesting to learn the true story behind the Fall of Valiria.

  13. #41
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    Re: Song of Ice and Fire (Original Book Series)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    Also I don't know if it will happen, but I think it would be interesting to learn the true story behind the Fall of Valiria.
    Well I think the Fall of Valiria is thanks to some natural catastrophe...it is said at some point that fire came from the ground...so a huge volcanic explosion is not out of question, with earthquakes and stuff...now all this could be attributed to Rhllor as his punishment or something w/e...

    What interests me in this new book is Littlefinger...I like the Spider more than him, but now the Spider's role is sort of set in stone, and now I think I understand what he meant, by telling Ned Stark that he is serving the realm...but Littlefinger...he is still intriguing, well at least more intriguing that Varys at this point IMO

    Victarion's story is interesting, although he is not an interesting character, and the deal with the horn might turn out to be of great importance, but I'm more interested in Euron

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    Re: Song of Ice and Fire (Original Book Series)

    I agree that volcanic explosion is quite plausible, but maybe it was really something based on Rhllor or even something provoked by valirian mages. Actually I think it would have been better if someone reopened some secrets of valirian magic, because in order to fight Others they need this magic. Othervise I can't see them winning, because all the North is now out of manpower and the war between northern clans is still not over. All the other parts of Vesteros also lack in manpower and also aren't united. Even with the help of Dragons and people from Free Cities (or how they are called) won't be a gamechanger in this situation, because there are just tons of Wights and Others and the Wall is damn huge.


    I agree that Littlefinger also interests me at this point. But I don't see him gaining more than he already has. I hope he will understand the need to unite the country under that young Targarien.

  15. #43
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    Re: Song of Ice and Fire (Original Book Series)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    xi0
    I think Jaimee was taken by Brienne to Kat Stark. So there are two posibilities:
    1. She will kill Jaimie, but I don't see how it will contribute to the plot, so I hope this won't happen.
    2. Another posibility is that they will become allies and will try to get Riveran and Winterfell back.
    I think Brienne is doing what she's doing because of her honor, but she has to know there's something off about Cat and that it's not worth serving her.

    I can't see Jaime and Cat teaming up either. The truth aside, Jaime hasn't followed through with his oath to her. You saw Cat was willing to kill Brienne as well over not fulfilling her oath either.

    Something tells me other parties will come into play, which will prevent them from reaching the Brotherhood without Banners.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    About Bran being able to help John (if he is alive, but I hope he won't die as he is my favourite character) )... that's not easy of course. Still we all remember that undead guy who was protecting Brand with his friends on their way to the Children of the Forest. If Bran will manage to make such an undead body (because I suppose it was made by that guy who teaches Bran now), then he might be of some use. Also the guy who teaches Bran... might he be some Stark (an old one of course)?

    Also I have a question. Have you ever thought about the one similarity between The Other and Rglor? They both can perform necromancy in one way or another.

    Also I don't know if it will happen, but I think it would be interesting to learn the true story behind the Fall of Valiria.
    I don't think Bloodraven "made" Cold Hands, he simply warged into him as a Wight. The Children of the Forest said that he was dead long ago, but there is something odd about him...unless it's just Bloodraven being able to control all those Ravens and the elk he rides as well.

    Bran could use Hodor in this manner, but that would be sort of cruel. Hodor is still finding ways to get outside of Bran's reach inside the caves. Maybe I'm completely wrong about Bran replacing Bloodraven as the last Greenseer, but who knows.

    All clues point to The Three-eyed Crow as being Bloodraven (Brynden Rivers), one of the Great Bastards of Aegon IV. He remained loyal to the throne during the Blackfyre Rebellion and killed his brother Daemon in the war. He eventually became Hand of the King for Aerys I. There were rumors about him being an evil sorcerer and for some unknown reason he was sent to The Wall the same time Maester Aemon was. He eventually became Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. After that, not much else is known, but knowing how the NW ventures beyond The Wall and the supernatural things that occur up there, it wouldn't be surprising if he became the Last Greenseer...the rumors about him being a sorcerer are probably somewhat true. There really isn't any reason to believe that he's a Stark, he has Targaryen blood.

    It's obvious that there are similarities between the R'hllor and The Others. The Others exist within the prophecies the Red Priests have.

    ---------- Post added at 01:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:33 PM ----------

    I also think the Doom of Valyria is just mythology. It was some volcanic event, and it may still be going on based on what was seen in the fifth book.

    Littlefinger pretty much said what his plans were. He plans on Robert Arryn dying, installing Harrold Harydyng as Lord of the Eyrie and Defender of the Vale since he's the only remaining true-born member of the Arryn bloodline (even though it's through the female line), and marrying Sansa to him so she can reclaim Winterfell. Now, I'm sure he has other tricks up his sleeve. Some fans even speculate that he's in league with the Iron Bank of Braavos due to his time as the Master of Coin, since his grandfather was a Braavosi. That seems a little too farfetched to me, but who knows?

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  17. #44
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    Re: Song of Ice and Fire (Original Book Series)

    xi0

    Quote Quote:
    I think Brienne is doing what she's doing because of her honor, but she has to know there's something off about Cat and that it's not worth serving her.

    I can't see Jaime and Cat teaming up either. The truth aside, Jaime hasn't followed through with his oath to her. You saw Cat was willing to kill Brienne as well over not fulfilling her oath either.

    Something tells me other parties will come into play, which will prevent them from reaching the Brotherhood without Banners.
    Yes, Cat is really different now, but it is understandable when your son is killed in front of you and beheaded and then you are killed and both of you are thrown in a river. The thing is that she doesn't actually want to be a person who can resolve anything, she just wants to make vengence and this is always a problem (not talking about the Cicle of Hatred from Naruto) ).
    Actually if we speak about Jaimie I think he tried somehow to fulfill his oath, but of course it didn't go as smooth as it should be, but hey in normal situation I wouldn't see him doing even this. He actually changed considerably while travelling with Brienne and after loosing his right hand. He is really quite honerable now.
    Still I agree that it would be odd to see Jaimie team up with Cat and her men.

    Quote Quote:
    I don't think Bloodraven "made" Cold Hands, he simply warged into him as a Wight. The Children of the Forest said that he was dead long ago, but there is something odd about him...unless it's just Bloodraven being able to control all those Ravens and the elk he rides as well.
    About Cold Hands... I actually had a thought at some point that he could have been Ed Stark's brother who dissapeared behind the Wall. Actually I would really like to learn his fate, even though it's logical to assume that he is dead by now.
    I agree that the most logical possibility is for Bran to become the next Greenseer, but maybe the author might change his destiny a bit. Maybe it's not the only place for Greenseer to live?

    Quote Quote:
    All clues point to The Three-eyed Crow as being Bloodraven (Brynden Rivers), one of the Great Bastards of Aegon IV. He remained loyal to the throne during the Blackfyre Rebellion and killed his brother Daemon in the war. He eventually became Hand of the King for Aerys I. There were rumors about him being an evil sorcerer and for some unknown reason he was sent to The Wall the same time Maester Aemon was. He eventually became Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. After that, not much else is known, but knowing how the NW ventures beyond The Wall and the supernatural things that occur up there, it wouldn't be surprising if he became the Last Greenseer...the rumors about him being a sorcerer are probably somewhat true. There really isn't any reason to believe that he's a Stark, he has Targaryen blood.
    That's really interesting! I've never thought of him being Targarien. That's actually quite logical as you point it. They do have similiarities. Also there is one thing. In Melisandra's fire premonitions she saw the sorcer from north (supposedly behind the Wall) who she thought to be evil. I thought she meant Three-eyed crow, thus he must be evil, but in what way? Are all the Chilred of Forest evil or does he have his own agenda? Or was she posibly speaking about Bran (though I think it's rather unlikely)?

    Quote Quote:
    I also think the Doom of Valyria is just mythology. It was some volcanic event, and it may still be going on based on what was seen in the fifth book.
    I also think that it might be just volcanic eruption, but still why do people still call the road that goes near the sea around Valiria the Demons Road? Maybe it's not only about the Volcanic eruption or that volcanic eruption wasn't natural, but was some kind of punishment or even a conclusion of a bad experiment?

    Quote Quote:
    Littlefinger pretty much said what his plans were. He plans on Robert Arryn dying, installing Harrold Harydyng as Lord of the Eyrie and Defender of the Vale since he's the only remaining true-born member of the Arryn bloodline (even though it's through the female line), and marrying Sansa to him so she can reclaim Winterfell. Now, I'm sure he has other tricks up his sleeve. Some fans even speculate that he's in league with the Iron Bank of Braavos due to his time as the Master of Coin, since his grandfather was a Braavosi. That seems a little too farfetched to me, but who knows?
    Would be actually interesting if he has some connections with the Bank of Braavos, but still I think that in some books Martin will need to resolve most of plotlines to let Westeros fight Others and Wights together, cause otherwise they don't have any chance to survive.

  18. #45
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    Re: Song of Ice and Fire (Original Book Series)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    Yes, Cat is really different now, but it is understandable when your son is killed in front of you and beheaded and then you are killed and both of you are thrown in a river. The thing is that she doesn't actually want to be a person who can resolve anything, she just wants to make vengence and this is always a problem (not talking about the Cicle of Hatred from Naruto) ).
    Actually if we speak about Jaimie I think he tried somehow to fulfill his oath, but of course it didn't go as smooth as it should be, but hey in normal situation I wouldn't see him doing even this. He actually changed considerably while travelling with Brienne and after loosing his right hand. He is really quite honerable now.
    Still I agree that it would be odd to see Jaimie team up with Cat and her men.
    Lady Stoneheart is probably less frightening looking than Dondarrion was. Remember, Dondarrion was killed and revived by Thoros 4-5 times iirc. Lady Stoneheart probably isn't riding into battle, so the constant dying and reanimating isn't going to take a toll on her because she isn't in those situations. Cat is like she is because of what happened to her, not because she's a zombie. That makes it even more depressing.

    You already saw that Cat only wants vengeance, that's why she nearly killed Brienne (a maybe actually killed Podrick and Hyle Hunt) and didn't even ask about Arya or Sansa.

    Jaime is on the road to redemption. He lost everything, and sometimes that's what it takes to humble a person. It's obviously a lie that Brienne told Jaime though, not even a fake Sandor could be roaming the countryside since the Brother Without Banners took his helm after Brienne killed Rorge. I'm not sure what to make of it...maybe Jaime's fate is unavoidable? He would certainly be of more use on The Wall than in the grave.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    About Cold Hands... I actually had a thought at some point that he could have been Ed Stark's brother who dissapeared behind the Wall. Actually I would really like to learn his fate, even though it's logical to assume that he is dead by now.
    I agree that the most logical possibility is for Bran to become the next Greenseer, but maybe the author might change his destiny a bit. Maybe it's not the only place for Greenseer to live?
    That seemed to be a popular theory among fans, not to mention that he refused to show his face. He could also be one of the rangers from the Prologue of the first book, but that theory is less sexy I'll admit

    I think it's the place where the Greenseer is the most powerful, because he's underneath all those Weirwoods and entangled in the root system. Unless there's another place like it, I don't know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    That's really interesting! I've never thought of him being Targarien. That's actually quite logical as you point it. They do have similiarities. Also there is one thing. In Melisandra's fire premonitions she saw the sorcer from north (supposedly behind the Wall) who she thought to be evil. I thought she meant Three-eyed crow, thus he must be evil, but in what way? Are all the Chilred of Forest evil or does he have his own agenda? Or was she posibly speaking about Bran (though I think it's rather unlikely)?
    Click here for more info about TEC

    It's pretty much accepted that it's him. A lot of the info comes from the Dunk and Egg stories I believe.

    We already know that Melisandre's prophecies are really cloudy and inexact, compared to Moqorro for example. Her prophecies are more ambiguous. It could be Bloodraven, it could be Bran, who knows? I would imagine that how insanely faithful members of the Red Faith are, that they could believe that anyone north of the wall is associated with "The Great Other".

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    I also think that it might be just volcanic eruption, but still why do people still call the road that goes near the sea around Valiria the Demons Road? Maybe it's not only about the Volcanic eruption or that volcanic eruption wasn't natural, but was some kind of punishment or even a conclusion of a bad experiment?
    Fans even say that the Braavosi caused the Doom of Valyria somehow, since the city was formed by escaped slaves from the Valyrian Freehold. It's a Volcanic event in my opinion, no doubt about it. From the descriptions we got from Victarion's chapter when they could see a glow on the horizon and it wasn't the sun (or something like that). Could be a punishment yeah...it may be related to Dragons, and the source of their power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    Would be actually interesting if he has some connections with the Bank of Braavos, but still I think that in some books Martin will need to resolve most of plotlines to let Westeros fight Others and Wights together, cause otherwise they don't have any chance to survive.
    Yeah, it's sort of a crack theory in my opinion. All these open plotlines makes me doubt whether he'll really be able to finish it in two books.

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