A Song of Ice and Fire (Original Book Series) [SPOILERS - BEWARE]

[TheMoa]

damn, thanks to farfalla I read the christmas gift and now I'm going crazy!!!!

The discussion between you guys is way too long.. so I'll just put some stuff that I saw you discuting and have my own opnion about.

SPOILER ALERT from the 5th book

1 - For me is kind of obvious that TEC is BloodRaven, the birthmark and " a thousand of eyes and one" is more than enough for me.

2 - I don't think that the Children of the forest are bad, they fought against the Others in the past and they use to give dragonglass wepons to the NW. And the wights were attacking coldhands. Mel saw Bran as the servant of the great other, but I think it's just her poor judgment of the vision.

3 - I hated hated Danny's chapters so much in DwD, I don't care about Essos anymore(Just Arya in Braavos)

4 - I wanna see the Boltons going down, and going down hard, more than the Lannisters and the Freys(ok, maybe not the freys). I think there was some truth in the pink letter, but now all of it!

5 - I think there is no R'hllor, it's just magic and the priests think it's a gift from their god, it is the way they see it, not what it really is. Like the old gods, there are no old gods, just greenseer.

6 - I got pissed with Martin in Jon's cliffhanger... The problem isn't he dying or not, it's just kind of unfair having a huge cliffhanger like this having to wait 5 years for the answer. But I do think he's Azzor Ahai... and I'm one of the L+R=J believers.

7- I got tired of Cersei always remembering the prophecies of Maggy the frog, it was kind of dragging, anyway, I hope Tommen don't die, he's cute. I got tired of "words are wind" and "nipples on a breastplate" too

Anyway, I hope we'll get some kind of closure in the north soon and some real development of the Targs in KL(not just Aegon, Danny should come to Westeros soo) ... the last book sould be just about fighting the others and tying things up

[xi0]

2. I'm not saying the Children are bad necessarily, just the atmosphere in Bran's chapters was so depressing to me. Yes he's a cripple, and he'll never walk again...but THIS? It's too much a for a kid to handle.

3. I'm not one of these types who get overly angry at things in books, but Dany really was aggravating me in the fifth book. I suppose it was a way for GRRM to express his frustration at the Meereenese knot through the story, and if having Barristan as a POV character was the solution, then I'm happy with that. He's a great character.

4. After reading the latest leaked chapter on GRRM's website, I can't really believe anything the letter Jon got. I'll have to see it in person. The Boltons are more despicable than the Lannisters because they're traitors. It's only a matter of time before the Northern lords find out the truth and we'll really see the meaning of "The North remembers"

5. That's a good point there. I think I was sort of going for that when I was pointing out the differences between Thoros and other Red Priests. It also explains the similarities between certain aspects of each religion. The Drowned God = R'hllor, The Stranger = The Many-faced God, etc.

6. I'm hoping we won't have to wait 5 years But yeah, there's too many clues to Jon being Azor Ahai. But if there's no R'hllor then what exactly is AA? If R+L=J, then the waking dragons from stone aspect of Mel's words will be fulfilled. He'll either restore House Targaryen himself, or he'll help Dany or Aegon do it.



I'm also interested in Qaithe's prophecy coming true. To go forward you must go backward...now Dany is back among the Dothraki, what will that mean for her?

[TheMoa]

I hope we won't have to wait 5 years too, but I don't want to fool myself.. lol

I agree that the atmosphere of Bran's chapters was depressing, but I don't believe he's going to be a tree luke bloodraven... anyway, Jojen looks like a dead body walking around.

I think the north knows about the Boltons, they just believe that Jeyne Polle is Arya and stay under control(This is what makes Theon so dumb, if he told the truth to Stannis and than the north lords, he would have a better chance of survival)

I think AA is just another prophecy like many others, but it came(the prophecy) from the Red Priests.

I'm also interested in Qaithe's prophecy too, my only problem is that it was long ago(it's kind of hard keeping tabs with every detail of huge books from a different language), I'll probably give it another read

[xi0]

But how exactly is Bran going to become a Greenseer if he isn't among those Weirwood roots?

I'm not sure if the Northern lords really know the full story of The Red Wedding. Those that do are simply biding their time, like the Manderly's. Theon is mentally screwed up from all the torture. He never talked about Jeyne's identity because he was deathly afraid of what Ramsay would do to him if he found out. Something tells me he won't keep it under wraps much longer.

Yeah, but the difference is that Melisandre mentions that AA = The Prince the was promised, which is what Rhaegar was told he was and then he in turn thought it was Aegon, and Maester Aemon in turn thought it was actually Dany since the rumors of her raising dragons reached him. I think we can say that AA=TPTWP, but who knows?



On another topic, do people think that Aegon is actually Rhaegar's son? There's obviously some reason to doubt it. Varys was involved in smuggling the real Aegon out of Kings Landing apparently, so who knows?

Anyone think Septa Lemore isn't who she says she is? Tyrion was suspicious of her. Fans suggest she may be the mother of Tyene Sand (one of Oberyn Martell's bastards) ...some even think that she might be Ashara Dayne but that's a stretch really.

Also, why didn't Jon Connington just chop is freaking hand off? It's like he's accepting his death

[Jorge D. Dragon]

I actually do believe that Aegon is Rhaegar's son. It was handled quite good and I think it will be more logical to let it be like this, than make another twist. I hope that now Aegon will rule Westeros. Maybe Deineris will come also to Westeros, but actually I don't like her and I don't think she will contribute to the realm that much. Still her dragons and supposed army should be good.

Septa Lemore is really very suspecious. I believe her identity maybe revealed at some point. It won't be strange if she actually occur to be one of the famous nobles.

And I agree about Connington. Totally didn't get the point why he didn't chop his arm. It was beyond ridiculous for me.

[otomo20]

Its said that greyscale might show up in one hand and when they chop it it just starts off in the other ( what a...magical disease).

Dont know much about the Septa, she is a little more mysterious then the other ship mates yet I found duck and the halfmaester to be more interesting.

As for Aegon being real, We cant guess that, but there are certain hints he might be fake, he is called " The Mummers Dragon" and tyrion at one point thinks something like " He might yet be a targ this one"

Connington is cool though, yet destined to fail I believe, you dont spend 4 books building people yet throw them off for some new comer, either stannis, dany or jon will be king by the end of the show.

[Jorge D. Dragon]

I actually hope that Aegon would be a real Rhaegar's son. At least it was quite logical at the end, when you look through Varis's words throughout all the books. Especially, when he talked with Ned Stark in the begining.

If we talk about the King... the most suited would be Stannis. The second place would go for John and then Aegon if we assume that he is a real deal (Targarien). I really hope we won't see Deineris. She is totally not suited for the Throne. She just brings disasters where she goes and is totally incompetent to be a ruler.

[xi0]

I think Dany wouldn't rule alone, she'd probably marry like any other noble woman. Plus, "the dragon has three heads" might factor into it.

Good point about the Mummer's Dragon Moa. "A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd" - That was part of the visions she had in the House of the Undying in Qarth. If you read the prophecy and the refrain "mother of dragons, slayer of lies", it pretty much tells you that Aegon is an impostor (along with Stannis not being Azor Ahai or at least he will be in Dany's way in her quest for the throne).

[Jorge D. Dragon]

You maybe right on this. Still I just can't make me think that Dany may become Queen now... Actually since two books ago I really wanted her to die. And actually as the plot progresses she looks more like her father and thus I only dislike her even more. Thus I pray for Aegon to be true born Targarien.
Though it's actually interesting either way if he is or isn't true Targarien. The only problem with one of the ways is that Dany may try to fight him, but it will only bring more problems to Westeros. Even now the realm is half destroyed because of the War and tons of people are dead, so if the War will last longer there just won't be anyone to fight against Others and Wights.

I really hope that John isn't dead and that he will be real Azor Ahai.

P.S. I'm feeling like I'm somewhere around the Wall.) We have -23 Celsium and around 80 or more % of humidity now (on Monday it was around 95% of humidity).

[xi0]

Dany is more of a Targaryen than Aegon would be, considering her parents were siblings (a Targaryen tradition) and Aegon has Martell blood in him. Maybe that might make her mad like her father, who knows.

I don't want Dany to die, she hatched the Dragons. It'll be interesting to see how she factors into the situation in Westeros, considering the fact that Aegon is already there, winning battles and allies. If he continues taking advantage of the fractured kingdom, I wonder what Dany will happen upon once she gets to Westeros. Maybe she'll have to fight Aegon because the prophecy says he's an impostor. If he really is a Targaryen, I can't see her taking up arms against him, she is his aunt.

Another interesting topic, is where in the hell is Maege Mormont and Galbart Glover? Did they ever make it to Greywater Watch to have Howland Reed sign Robb's succession orders? We know Jason Mallister had to surrender Seagard to the Freys, but we can assume Mormont and Glover sailed up the Neck before that. Does anyone think that we might hear from Howland Reed in the next book? GRRM said there were no new POV characters (unless it's a prologue/epilogue, I'm assuming).

(I heard of how cold it's been in Russia, stay close to the fire , hopefully the wall will weep soon)

[Jorge D. Dragon]

I don't really want her to die. I just don't see her as a good Quenn as she isn't a manager type and also isn't actually bright in any sense of the word. Though still if she comes to Westeros with the Dragons and with some manpower things might get interesting.
If Aegon is Rhaegar's son he should be a king, but he might marry Dany or not, still she might become close with him (if they are both Targariens) and it might make Westeros finally united. The thing I really fear if Dany will try to get her Throne if she thinks that he is an imposter, cause it would be a disastrous War if she uses the Dragons, cause she can barely control them. She really needs something to handle them better. Maybe some things from Valiria?

Another interesting topic, is where in the hell is Maege Mormont and Galbart Glover? Did they ever make it to Greywater Watch to have Howland Reed sign Robb's succession orders? We know Jason Mallister had to surrender Seagard to the Freys, but we can assume Mormont and Glover sailed up the Neck before that. Does anyone think that we might hear from Howland Reed in the next book? GRRM said there were no new POV characters (unless it's a prologue/epilogue, I'm assuming).

I think we might see them in the upcoming books, but I don't think that they will be that of a trump card. Still it's interesting will they help to destroy Bolton's rule or not?
I'm really dying to read a new book. It should be very interesting and I hope it will be out soon and will be huge.

(I heard of how cold it's been in Russia, stay close to the fire , hopefully the wall will weep soon)

Yeah, I hope the spring will come sooner))) Still even though I don't like winter, I can live with -10 Celsium, but not when it's -20 or even colder))

[xi0]

Well she's not going to forget about the prophecy she saw about the Mummer's Dragon. Something tells me she will fight Aegon. And Victarion has something from Valyria And if you recall when Euron's man blew the horn, it also coincided with Drogon leaving Dany for some time. Might have just been a coincidence though.

I'm not really interested in what the letter means, it's obvious it's sort of pointless. Bran and Rickon are still alive, just not everyone knows it yet. I'm more interested in finally seeing Howland Reed and what he his crannogmen will do.

[Jorge D. Dragon]

Let's see. Don't know if it will be good or bad, but still interesting for the action. The only thing I don't know when she will eventually go to Westeros, cause if she will use land route (I don't see her going by sea without her men as she could have already done it,but didn't) she will eventually get to another City, where there will be slaves and she will try to free them and for this she will have to spend not only a lot of time, but also a significant amount of manpower and that will make her weaker in terms of fighting for the throne.
Yes, Euron's men blew special horn from Valiria, but for it to control the dragon the price is too high - person's life and that's really a problematic weapon as I don't think Dany will use it.
If Victarion has something useful - that's good. But actually I think the most important thing he has, well... not the thing, but a person is his Red Priest.

[xi0]

Her coming back to the Dothraki, I'm not sure what will come of that. Your theory that she'll want to free every slave from each slave-city is a funny one, but somewhat true. I'm imagining her overrunning her enemies in Meereen with the Dothraki horde for some reason. Just because she's far from the sea now, doesn't mean she will be for long.

Yeah, it's obvious Moqorro operates much in the same way as Melisandre does...a manipulator of sorts.

Marwyn the Mage was supposedly leaving the Citadel to seek out Dany too, but we haven't heard from him yet.

[Jorge D. Dragon]

The thing is that if she frees as many slaves as she can it might get her to the point when she'll have an enormously big army of slaves (even though I would call it more like a tribe or croud ), than she will need tons of food to feed them and also it will take her longer to travel as big armies can't travel fast and also she won't manage to travel by see if she would have had an oportunity to do it, because she won't manage to put all of them on the ships and also her Dragons are too big at this point. They need to be somewhere near land.

It would be damn interesting to see more from Moqorro and also from other important Rhglor's priests. I believe there are some of them who are considerably stronger than those we know now in terms of so-called magic and predictions.

Marwyn the Mage? I don't remember this one. Can you remind me about him?