Is Edo Tensei another name for "fanservice"?

[anrufen]

Well, Die hard Kishi fans will find or try to find every logic to uphold their "This is the greatest piece of writing ever and everything makes sense.....if it wasn't then there is no way I would like it"! But c'mon guys its out there...the last part was kind of fan service....and also something to make up for his mistakes where he killed of too many of the potential war contributors! Although I am liking his build up to the war and I am no doubt happy to see some characters (like Kimimaru) but I can still admit that this at least had some intention of fan pleasing in it!

[AlB]

Well, Die hard Kishi fans will find or try to find every logic to uphold their "This is the greatest piece of writing ever and everything makes sense.....if it wasn't then there is no way I would like it"! But c'mon guys its out there...the last part was kind of fan service....and also something to make up for his mistakes where he killed of too many of the potential war contributors! Although I am liking his build up to the war and I am no doubt happy to see some characters (like Kimimaru) but I can still admit that this at least had some intention of fan pleasing in it!

dude, of course it was fan-service! why is fan service always a negative thing? yes, the current plot development is fan service, but at the same time does it lessen the worth of the manga or what?

and btw, as far as I understand, a good plot, a good manga is always a good fan-service

[SacredNic]

I fail to see how it is fan-service. Not all fans appreciate the characters who have died to reappear again later on

In any story, resurrection should be used sparingly, and with care, otherwise you run the risk of death not ever being the ultimatum and thus holds no true value. I believe that Kishi initially respected this, as earlier on in the manga, during the Gaara dying arc, so much emphasis was placed on Granny's achievement of being able to bring Gaara back to life at the expense of her own.

Of course this is now flushed down the toilet due to Pain's ability to bring back everyone he killed during his raid against the village .. and now we see Kabuto's ability to bring back over a dozen dead characters back to life without batting an eyelid. So to me, this is very bad storytelling, and Kishi is delving into cheap plot-devices

[THM Nindo]

I kinda agree about Haku and Zabuza...
it does sound like fanservice...

But, it seems to me that he's summoning many of them to off-balance some of the shinobi of the alliance.
We know that the kid from the mist (forgot his name) that works for Mizukage knew well of Zabuza...

Maybe he summoned him and Haku to throw him off during the battle.

[3c]

Of course this is now flushed down the toilet due to Pain's ability to bring back everyone he killed during his raid against the village .. and now we see Kabuto's ability to bring back over a dozen dead characters back to life without batting an eyelid. So to me, this is very bad storytelling, and Kishi is delving into cheap plot-devices.

I don't necessarily agree. Edo Tensei was introduced and established very early on in the manga, it shouldn't surprise us at all. When you have mastered such a technique it makes no sense to only bring back a few when you can technically bring back as many as you like. The only reason Orochimaru didn't bring back more than 2 (he tried 3) was because he chose those particular characters because his opponent was Hiruzen. I wouldn't be the least surprised if he had a dozen more up his sleeve, or in mind but simply hadn't performed the procedures yet.

Technically it shouldn't be that surprising that Kabuto made so many appear at the same time, the technique should only cost chakra when he makes them, what Kabuto did now was simply summon them which shouldn't be that difficult. The real question, and the most interesting one really, is how or if he can control all of those at the same time. Are they bound to his chakra? Or do they magically produce chakra themselves (which makes absolutely no sense) so that Kabuto simply has to unleash them (which would be overly hax).

As for Mass Edo Tensei being bad storytelling, well yeah partly. But at the same time I can understand why Kishi did this. No one cares about new villains at this point, not in that great a number. At this point I'd rather have a set of great fights with awesome characters I care about rather than a set great fights with totally random new characters playing the villains. Kishi's mistake lies in the past (aswell as many other mistakes), with the current story he most likely chose one of the best choices. What Kishi SHOULD have done was introduce such characters early on, he could have used the mercenary plot given by Pain and hired powerful individuals. He also should have made this an Akatsuki + two villages vs three villages = no need for Zetsu army. He could have easily written Iwagakure into a cruel bitter village, wanting revenge on Konoha, and Kirigakure should have been the Bloody Mist.

[Darth Executor]

Edo breaks almost every rule in this entire manga....its just gotten stupid.

Kabuto is now controlling 30+ characters with no drain on his own chakra.

What rule does it break? Where does it say Edo Tensei even drains chakra to maintain? The "heavy" price for Edo Tensei is a human sacrifice. Human sacrifices are a dime a dozen for unscrupulous people like Kabuto. I agree that it's obvious fan service, but there are no rules being broken other than those made up by people who, coincidentally, have no actual say in what the Naruto world rules are.

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Or do they magically produce chakra themselves (which makes absolutely no sense)

Why does it make no sense? You do remember that Sasori's Kazekage puppet still had his own chakra, right? And these aren't even puppets, they are built around actual human beings who should have no problem producing chakra.

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^That is true, why would kishi or any other author do something which the readers will hate?

Because he has a story to tell?

Anyway, they're obviously all there to give every good character one final battle. I suspect that once the awesome fights get underway the complaining will largely disappear.

[Zatono]

I'm still pretty sure the only reason these guys were brought back is to just help develop all of our old and new characters.

Neji is almost guaranteed to fight his dad, I assume that the kid who's crushing on the Mizukage (forgot his name) will fight Zabuza.

Shikamaru gets to talk to Asuma one last time and tell him how he's gonna be the sensei for his child.

Etc, Etc. I could go on about who would fight who and why, but it'd be a stretch for some.

[THM Nindo]

I'm still pretty sure the only reason these guys were brought back is to just help develop all of our old and new characters.

Neji is almost guaranteed to fight his dad, I assume that the kid who's crushing on the Mizukage (forgot his name) will fight Zabuza.

Shikamaru gets to talk to Asuma one last time and tell him how he's gonna be the sensei for his child.

Etc, Etc. I could go on about who would fight who and why, but it'd be a stretch for some.

If it helps get some more depth to the characters, I'm all for it.

But, I don't think that Kishi will be that predictable...
For example, I doubt that Chiyo will fight Sakura (or Kankuro)

We were all expecting Deidera to fight Gaara but he ended up fighting the Tsuchikage...
(Well, Deidera is not dead yet, so he might end up fighting Gaara, though...)

[juUnior]

but I can still admit that this at least had some intention of fan pleasing in it!

If you call it fanservice, then it means you should like it and not see whether its bad or good from story telling perspective.

I'm somewhat torn between fanservice and actually good story telling.
For once, I always like the idea of seeing the villains <especially> MORE than its need to be seen <which often lacks in many mangas>, so I'm very pleased to see "old" villains - their time is done, but seeing them JUST for the battle purposes makes me happy <fanservice+storytelling>
Second, former jinchuurikis - now I see why Kishi didn't want to bother with them in some fights, he wanted them to shine now <or in other words: he wanted to not spoil the fun of seeing them in action> I would call it a good story telling and once more: fanservice <he could as well not to bother with them anymore, fans already given up hope to see them in action>
Third: jeezzzezzz I have no idea what I wanted to say xP Let's just say: each "good" character who is not a RANDOM TO KISHI will have a nice battle, probably one on one with the WAR in the background <booms out there and there> with zome zombie which Kabuto summoned using ET. The rest of randoms will probably deal with Zetsus just for the background. That's probably how I see it.
Downside of this? The rest of the characters who are considered RANDOM by Kishi will probably show for some few panels how they deal and destroy Zetsu clones.. xd

So, yeah, I think its good that Kishi brought "dead" characters - now I'm even more looking forward to WAR than before <before = when Kabuto only shown 5 Aka zombies with one hidden - I thought that only Kages would have a battle with zombies, Naruto vs Sasuke, somewhere Madara, and the end; now its so much more to see >

[POW]

@DementedKirby

Firstly let me say the title of this thread is made of pure WIN LMFAO!!!


- Secondly I would point out Zabuza is not S-class but A-class otherwise he would have pwned Kakashi at the level he was at during the opening arc. Kisame is the strongest of the 7 Mist Swordsmen but his death was very recent so Kabuto has not had time to setup an Edo for him.



- However getting back to the main point yes Kabuto Edo's are a bit of Fan service but there is a good reason why. Most of those shinobi minus the Akatsuki members have never had any decent fight scenes. We never got to see the Jinchuuriki fight nor Hanzou even though he was pumped up as some legendary Shinobi.

The fact that Gaara can still use sand should answer any questions about the Edo Former Jinchuuriki abilities. Also lets not forget the Kages as we never saw the 4th Kazekage and only saw the 3rd Raikage in flashback with the last Kage probably being the 2nd Tsuchikage who we no nothing about.

So finally Kishi is answering the cry that we have always wanted to see some of these powerful background shinobi and their abilities so I for one am excited and hope he gives them decent screen time.

^That is true, why would kishi or any other author do something which the readers will hate?

I dont know ask Kubo

[DementedKirby]

@DementedKirby

Firstly let me say the title of this thread is made of pure WIN LMFAO!!!

Lol! Thanks!

- Secondly I would point out Zabuza is not S-class but A-class otherwise he would have pwned Kakashi at the level he was at during the opening arc. Kisame is the strongest of the 7 Mist Swordsmen but his death was very recent so Kabuto has not had time to setup an Edo for him.

I still think that they don't know he's dead. It'd be great for him being there to be part of their plan and then his death be a major wrench in it. I'm tired of Madara having everything go his way. It's annoying. He's gotta sweat some more.

- However getting back to the main point yes Kabuto Edo's are a bit of Fan service but there is a good reason why. Most of those shinobi minus the Akatsuki members have never had any decent fight scenes. We never got to see the Jinchuuriki fight nor Hanzou even though he was pumped up as some legendary Shinobi.

The fact that Gaara can still use sand should answer any questions about the Edo Former Jinchuuriki abilities. Also lets not forget the Kages as we never saw the 4th Kazekage and only saw the 3rd Raikage in flashback with the last Kage probably being the 2nd Tsuchikage who we no nothing about.

So finally Kishi is answering the cry that we have always wanted to see some of these powerful background shinobi and their abilities so I for one am excited and hope he gives them decent screen time.

I totally agree. I always thought that it sucked that we never saw the jinchuuriki in action. Now we get a chance to see that. How that affects the fillers remain to be seen. However, I did myself the favor of never seeing the anime after they decided to put more filler during Shippuuden when the First Part has 2+ years of filler . So I could care less how the anime's jinchuuriki will be affected . As for the previous kage, it'd be awesome to see them in action. We never got to see Gaara's father's abilities. Though if he was easily defeated by Orochimaru and Kabuto then he's really nothing to be awed about.

[mattiaildivino]

The current Mizukage and Raikage, those are their first names. As for the dude with Zabuza, no one knows who he is yet.

excuse me but where are these names said? i know that Killerbee(and the raikage) would be of the Yotsuki clan http://www.cloudmanga.com/Naruto/408/#3.
the current raikage is the 5th? because the third raikage is the one that 30 years ago sealed the hachibi,but Hizashi Hyuga killed a raikage,so this is the 5th.

[THM Nindo]

excuse me but where are these names said? i know that Killerbee(and the raikage) would be of the Yotsuki clan http://www.cloudmanga.com/Naruto/408/#3.
the current raikage is the 5th? because the third raikage is the one that 30 years ago sealed the hachibi,but Hizashi Hyuga killed a raikage,so this is the 5th.

1. Those names were given in the special 10years book, if I recall.
2. The Yotsuki clan is the clan of the guy that was interrogated, not the one of the Raikage.
3. Hizashi Hyuga killed a head of a clan, not the Raikage.

[Sannom]

BTW how come kabuto did not bring kisame back? I guess he will in time.

Not too hard to guess : all those people Kabuto summoned are probably the "other pawns" he talked about when he first met Madara. It means he prepared them way before meeting Madara, with sacrifice and everything. Kisame and Konan were killed after Kabuto joined Madara in that desolate land that he uses as a hideout, Kabuto doesn't have the resources for new Edo Tenseï summons in that place. He would need to make some prisoners during the war if he wants to summon more ninjas.

and now we see Kabuto's ability to bring back over a dozen dead characters back to life without batting an eyelid. So to me, this is very bad storytelling, and Kishi is delving into cheap plot-devices

Kabuto didn't resurrect them, they're undead, puppets in his hands. That's why we call them "Edo Tenseï zombies", meaning they're not really alive.

[anrufen]

dude, of course it was fan-service! why is fan service always a negative thing? yes, the current plot development is fan service, but at the same time does it lessen the worth of the manga or what?

and btw, as far as I understand, a good plot, a good manga is always a good fan-service

I mean no offense when i say that your understanding may be a little incomplete (not that mine is totally complete, but your last logic kinda led me to believe it may be a little more than yours...at least in this case...so please bear with me). Fan Service is being referred to that which is a forced move on the author's part. See, an author who concentrates on making a good story and be a good story teller is, as u so nicely put it, is also doing fan service...however, the satisfaction from such service is story driven...it comes due to the story!

What the thread creator and myself is saying is that this certain storyline is Fan-service driven...as in the fans' satisfaction will be the prime concern and that will direct the course of the story.

Such situations usually arise when the publishers want to avoid any risk of loosing ratings or in other words loosing money. I personally blame the publishers more than the author, as he is the same guy who wrote stories that had such great impact, that even with its dwindling quality, I still wait for it every week.

And this downward trend in story quality is exactly because of the failure of the publishers to see this manga as a work of art but instead as a money maker. Their misplaced importance on money is the reason y priority is being misplaced on fan service rather than on the story itself! A good story will generate income and satisfaction automatically...I just wish the publishers wud give Kishi more freedom and let him focus on the story.

I fail to see how it is fan-service. Not all fans appreciate the characters who have died to reappear again later on

In any story, resurrection should be used sparingly, and with care, otherwise you run the risk of death not ever being the ultimatum and thus holds no true value. I believe that Kishi initially respected this, as earlier on in the manga, during the Gaara dying arc, so much emphasis was placed on Granny's achievement of being able to bring Gaara back to life at the expense of her own.

Of course this is now flushed down the toilet due to Pain's ability to bring back everyone he killed during his raid against the village .. and now we see Kabuto's ability to bring back over a dozen dead characters back to life without batting an eyelid. So to me, this is very bad storytelling, and Kishi is delving into cheap plot-devices

Heh heh....thank you for speaking my mind! See what u said in the first line says EXACTLY what i m trying to say....a good story will satisfy all fans...where as a stunt to sustain popularity will please only those who fail to see or are too stubborn to accept it for what it is!

While I am happy with the fact that some of my dream matches may very well be shown....I am not pleased with the overall story direction!

Bak to the exact line of discussion. I know you guys like this manga enough to ignore some of its shortcomings....but at least revival of Haku, Zabuza and Kimimaru should have given some hint. It screamed "Dream matches thou mused about in forums shall now come to pass, and thou shall be happy!"