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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)

View Poll Results: who would win?

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  • Gin

    4 7.84%
  • Yama

    43 84.31%
  • To hard too tell

    4 7.84%
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Thread: Gin vs Yama

  1. #1
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Gin vs Yama

    Rules and Conditions:



    Scenario 1

    1. The fight takes place in FKT
    2. Yama can't use bankai
    3. Gin can use bankai
    4. Gin is dead serious and will go for the kill at the beginning.


    Scenario 2

    1. The fight takes place in FKT
    2. Yama can use bankai
    3. Gin can use bankai
    4. Gin is dead serious and will go for the kill at the beginning.


    I think Gin's bankai, is on a higher level than Yama's shikai as far as how haxx it is. I just saw the episode Gin used it. It became even more evident Gin was just playing around and could have killed Ichigo at any time. I don't think anyone other than Aizen and the powered up Ichigo could handle Gin's bankai.

    Gin would just point Kamishini no yari at Yama and than that would end it in my opinion. I know other people think differently though so that's why I created this thread.
    Last edited by En Yang Ji; November 16, 2010 at 12:24 PM.

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  3. #2
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Richo's Avatar
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    Re: Gin vs Yama

    Gin might be strong but if yama can solo shunsui and ukitake, then gin shouldn't pose much of a threat either.
    I admit gin has a hax bankai and its special ability is nasty aswell but dust (as how it is described) is highly flamable even iron dusts catches fire (I talk from experience).
    so i give this to yama for having 1. superior stats in databook, 2. being the strongest shinigami alive (admited by Aize himself)

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    Re: Gin vs Yama

    Quote Originally Posted by Richo View Post
    Gin might be strong but if yama can solo shunsui and ukitake, then gin shouldn't pose much of a threat either.
    I admit gin has a hax bankai and its special ability is nasty aswell but dust (as how it is described) is highly flamable even iron dusts catches fire (I talk from experience).
    so i give this to yama for having 1. superior stats in databook, 2. being the strongest shinigami alive (admited by Aize himself)
    Yama was only able to take on those two because neither was using bankai. The speed of Gins bankai is what causes me to believe he could beat Yama.

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    Re: Gin vs Yama

    The speed isn't all that impressive if Ichigo, once he's paying attention, can dodge. A straight up thrust is not hitting pretty much any of the captains reliably, especially Yamamoto, bar a backstab strike or something. His Serial blade tech might help, but frankly the asinine stance is the killer of that move. Anyone with half a brain should be able to flashstep out of the way of that, and then Gin's wide open.

    Gin's bankai, though incredibly hax, has a lot of ways to work around it frankly even without someone who is just that good taking a gander at it. Yamamoto godstomps here. Possibly without even his Zanpakuto, depending on if he can get close enough for a single bone tech.

  6. #5
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Gin vs Yama

    Yamamoto babyshakes Gin. The only time Gin's ever successfully struck anyone with his zanpakuto is when their back is turned, or they're preoccupied and he relies on a surprise attack. I'm confident that's because it's crap against anyone proficient with shunpo thanks to it's linear line of strike.

    Yamamoto won't tank a stab unless he's close enough to injure Gin considerably, so Gin can't rely on Yama tanking on purpose so he can activate his disentigrating dust. Something like, pushing the sword aside while he rushes in to One Bone him is how I see the fight ending in either scenario.

    Quote Originally Posted by ki0
    Yama was only able to take on those two because neither was using bankai.

    Niether was Yama-jii. It took them both to stand against Yama for however long they did, while they were all in shikai. If they upped the ante to bankai, he could aswell, which would still leave him stronger than them both combined.
    Last edited by ninjabot; November 16, 2010 at 01:31 PM.

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    Re: Gin vs Yama

    Quote Originally Posted by Random101 View Post
    The speed isn't all that impressive if Ichigo, once he's paying attention, can dodge. A straight up thrust is not hitting pretty much any of the captains reliably, especially Yamamoto, bar a backstab strike or something. His Serial blade tech might help, but frankly the asinine stance is the killer of that move. Anyone with half a brain should be able to flashstep out of the way of that, and then Gin's wide open.

    Gin's bankai, though incredibly hax, has a lot of ways to work around it frankly even without someone who is just that good taking a gander at it. Yamamoto godstomps here. Possibly without even his Zanpakuto, depending on if he can get close enough for a single bone tech.
    Ichigo noted himself that he didn't have the reflexes to see KNS extend or contract. The reason Ichigo could dodge is likely because Gin was playing around. He was anticipating Gins thrust, but Gin doesn't have to thrust to extend his sword. All he has to do is point his sword. Gin was playing around, Ichigo noted that it would been to Gins advantage to just attack him instead of slicing buildings and giving Ichigo a chance to figure out how fast KNS is.

    Ichigo wouldn't have been able to Dodge if Gin was serious. Imagine if Gin pointed his sword at Ichigo, Ichigo jump to the left and gin just waited a second to see where Ichigo would go and shot him. It would be just that easy for Gin to beat Ichigo at that point.


    @Ninjabot: IMO Yama may be stronger if he used bankai. My point is with bankai captains of a certain level can beat Yama's shikai.
    Last edited by En Yang Ji; November 16, 2010 at 01:36 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  8. #7
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Gin vs Yama

    And Gin wouldn't have been able to endure those GT's or out maneuver Ichigo if he hadn't lost the will to fight (his hollowfied KGT barely harmed Yammi, but Byakuya, someone not known for pure destructive force, managed to shred his face with the weakest form of his Bankai). Ditto for patched Zaraki.

    That's testament to how much weaker Ichigo was during his fight with Gin.

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    Re: Gin vs Yama

    Quote Quote:
    Ichigo noted himself that he didn't have the reflexes to see KNS extend or contract. The reason Ichigo could dodge is likely because Gin was playing around. He was anticipating Gins thrust, but Gin doesn't have to thrust to extend his sword. All he has to do is point his sword. Gin was playing around, Ichigo noted that it would been to Gins advantage to just attack him instead of slicing buildings and giving Ichigo a chance to figure out how fast KNS is.

    Ichigo wouldn't have been able to Dodge if Gin was serious. Imagine if Gin pointed his sword at Ichigo, Ichigo jump to the left and gin just waited a second to see where Ichigo would go and shot him. It would be just that easy for Gin to beat Ichigo at that point.
    The vital flaw in your argument is that Gin himself outright notes he missed and that Ichigo was dodging his thrusts. Whether he was playing around or not, that already tells you it's entirely possible to dodge blows Gin entirely wanted to hit. I'd also go into the long discussion of whether or not Gin was 'playing around' but suffice to say I already have the evidence I need provided by the man himself to prove that it's possible for someone severely lacking in speed at that point in time to dodge and more importantly block his thrusts.

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    Re: Gin vs Yama

    Quote Originally Posted by Random101 View Post
    The vital flaw in your argument is that Gin himself outright notes he missed and that Ichigo was dodging his thrusts. Whether he was playing around or not, that already tells you it's entirely possible to dodge blows Gin entirely wanted to hit. I'd also go into the long discussion of whether or not Gin was 'playing around' but suffice to say I already have the evidence I need provided by the man himself to prove that it's possible for someone severely lacking in speed at that point in time to dodge and more importantly block his thrusts.
    Ichigo dodged the downward swing not the thrust. Ichigo being able to block only means he placed his sword at the right place when Gin pointed his sword at him. Gin was either playing around or Gin was right about it being a lucky block.

  11. #10
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    Re: Gin vs Yama

    Uh, no, the context of that entire scene makes no sense at all if it was a swing (He noticed on the first, dodged the second? He blocked the first and the second did connect if we're talking swings, and don't get me started on that third one between panels). He dodged a thrust. Repeatedly no less, including one aimed at the head. Which given that don't start me down the playing around discussion. >>

  12. #11
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Gin vs Yama

    Well, the ability gin has certainly would kill yama but I have my doubts about gin actually getting that hit. I guess it depends on how exactly yama handles the battle. with bankai yama should pretty much one shot gin. If yama can't use bankai then I see gin holding out for a while but I don't think he'd win. I don't think he would get that crucial hit on yama 90% of the times.

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    Re: Gin vs Yama

    ^That in essence. Getting the vital hit in takes a good amount of luck. Like Barragon thanks to his hax he pretty much never has a 0% chance of victory if it's possible to damage the opponent (Unless it's against Barragon I suppose, or someone who can survive the poison), but unlike him it's significantly harder for him to utilize it. Gin has a chance, especially if we restrict Yamamoto to no Zanpakuto, but it's not significantly high unless the person is primarily close ranged, ie: Harder for Gin to miss. And even then there are ways.

  14. #13
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member exacta's Avatar
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    Re: Gin vs Yama

    Quote Originally Posted by ki0 View Post
    [B]

    Gin would just point Kamishini no yari at Yama and than that would end it in my opinion. I know other people think differently though so that's why I created this thread.
    It sounds like you forgot that Gin told Aizen that what he said about how the length of Kamishini no yari and how fast it extends and contracts was a LIE. He didn't specify exactly how fast and long it is in comparison to shikai, but it's not so fast that all he has to do is point it at you(unless he's fighting close range).

    Therer's no reason to say Gin was toying with Ichigo. He even said he wasn't gonna hold back, and if he wanted to toy with him, why would he bother immediatley going Bankai? He even went so far as to try and throw him off mentally when he explained his Bankai so he could get an advantage. Gin definitely took that fight seriously.

    Gin's Bankai is still dangerous, but he's got no chance against Yama IMO. Even Aizen wouldn't fight him. Granted, if Gin could pull a stunt on Yama like he did with Aizen in Karakura, he could kill him, but Yama has no reason to trust/pretend to trust Gin, so that scenario is impossible. If the fight took place in Soul Society before Aizen's betrayal.Aizen's death, Gin could trick him like he did with Aizen, and then he'd have a good chance.
    Last edited by exacta; November 16, 2010 at 04:07 PM.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member El Samurai Guapo's Avatar
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    Re: Gin vs Yama

    Quote Originally Posted by exacta View Post
    It sounds like you forgot that Gin told Aizen that what he said about how the length of Kamishini no yari and how fast it extends and contracts was a LIE. He didn't specify exactly how fast and long it is in comparison to shikai, but it's not so fast that all he has to do is point it at you(unless he's fighting close range).
    It is actually still damn fast. Gin could retract the blade back to the length of a wakizashi faster than Ichigo could see, even while he was focusing on it.

    Quote Quote:
    Therer's no reason to say Gin was toying with Ichigo. He even said he wasn't gonna hold back, and if he wanted to toy with him, why would he bother immediatley going Bankai?
    How about the fact that Ichigo turned his back on him twice and Gin didn't snipe him in the back of the head? Or the fact that Gin's real motive was to kill Aizen, not Ichigo. Gin obviously wanted Ichigo to face Aizen in the event of his own failure.

    I think Gin has a chance against anyone, provided they don't know about the poison trick. Yamamoto isn't exactly reluctant to letting himself get stabbed to create an opening on his opponents for himself either.
    Last edited by El Samurai Guapo; November 16, 2010 at 06:04 PM.

  16. #15
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    Re: Gin vs Yama

    Quote Originally Posted by exacta View Post
    It sounds like you forgot that Gin told Aizen that what he said about how the length of Kamishini no yari and how fast it extends and contracts was a LIE. He didn't specify exactly how fast and long it is in comparison to shikai, but it's not so fast that all he has to do is point it at you(unless he's fighting close range).

    Therer's no reason to say Gin was toying with Ichigo. He even said he wasn't gonna hold back, and if he wanted to toy with him, why would he bother immediatley going Bankai? He even went so far as to try and throw him off mentally when he explained his Bankai so he could get an advantage. Gin definitely took that fight seriously.

    Gin's Bankai is still dangerous, but he's got no chance against Yama IMO. Even Aizen wouldn't fight him. Granted, if Gin could pull a stunt on Yama like he did with Aizen in Karakura, he could kill him, but Yama has no reason to trust/pretend to trust Gin, so that scenario is impossible. If the fight took place in Soul Society before Aizen's betrayal.Aizen's death, Gin could trick him like he did with Aizen, and then he'd have a good chance.
    I don't think Yama could react to it. If he can he wins easily. If he can't I think Gin would win. I don't think Yama could position his blade at the same time Gin moved and pointed his. He would have to be able to basically read his mind to tell in time IMO.

    - Gin would of had more of an advantage if he just attacked Ichigo instead of giving him the chance to figure it out.

    - Gin could attack Yama when Yama switches to offense. Yama would have to concentrate and stay on the defensive to evade KNS.

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