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Translations: Gintama 515 (2)
Does anyone want to try to argue as to how/why Rigardo could win/has a chance against Luciela?
For me, Yuma has gotten quite powerful, I mean taking on a rank 14 with such ease (~"It felt as though her sword swinging was so slow that it wasn't even moving to me!") and killing an AB with a single thrown sword, lol, which Galatea couldn't even kill and needed help with, (Galatea is a "weakling"! j/k as that chapter/scene doesn't make much sense as Galatea faced far more dangerous adversaries in Miata+Agatha then two weaker ranked ABs), lol. Not to mention about her incredible "Supportive Regeneration Ability ("SRA")", far exceeding Cynthia's own "SRA". Yuma completely regenerating Cynthia's body whole again and then immediately afterwards regenerating Deneve's arm and stabilizing Deneve's yoki too!
So, normally Yuma would/could pose a problem for Deneve... the original/earliest Deneve. (with the only caveat that we haven't really seen if Yuma, and Cynthia, can regenerate themselves or not, whereas Deneve certainly can regenerate herself)
However, Deneve has gotten more powerful, in fact, extremely powerful if I may argue so myself. I actually put/argue that Deneve might be between Clare's and Miria's power level, or even equal to Claymore Clare.
This is why Yuma really has no chance against Deneve. But, don't let this diminish Yuma, as it would be the same for anyone against Deneve, as Deneve (and Helen to a lesser extent as well) has really gotten powerful!
Total Votes: 23
Deneve: 23 votes = 100.00%
Yuma: 0 votes = 0%
Last edited by HegemonKhan; December 24, 2010 at 02:23 AM.
1. Miria's "stealth" or "NYS" has been prohibited from being considered in this Fight, AGAIN because Galatea could NOT sense the "NYS" or "Stealth" Ghosts (as Joe7133 has already point this out in his post before mine/this one), as seen by her total surprise and not knowing who they were when they arrived to save her from Agatha. So, this would cause Galatea to be as completely helpless as Audrey and Rachel were, and thus a very unfair/lopsided/pointless Fight, which is thus why Miria's "stealth" or "NYS" has been prohibited from being considered in this Fight.
2. Galatea is the tallest Claymore. Miria's quite tall too (if I remember correctly), but Galatea is the definately the tallest, making her taller than Miria.
(Ryus can answer this question much more definitively then I can, as he's on another site where this has been addressed in accurate detail, with the exact height measurements and/or calculations of many of the Claymores, and/or maybe some of the Awakeneds as well)
"Miria would probably be slight stronger then a Claymore Alicia" -Joe7133
Personally, I don't agree with this. As I see it, rank 1 Claymores, are still superior to Miria's improvement. But, this is just my own opinion only.
Maybe Claymore Clare might be at a rank 1 Claymore level, with/because of her Quick Sword and ELYSA, but otherwise, I don't see Clare, and definately not Miria at rank 1 Claymore level.
Now, Miria (and Claymore Clare) may be able to fight with equally and possibly win against Rigardo, but I'm just too hesitant to make the jump to a rank 1 Claymore for Miria's level at this point. Remember that Claymore Alicia was fighting equally with Riful (albiet Riful wasn't in her top condition, but arguably Alicia wasn't either, or at least she was worried/distracted about her beloved Beth). Also, the trainee Awakening twins may be quite powerful in their Awakened forms/bodies, but we just do NOT know how powerful (what ranks) they are/would be. Miria just said that they (in their Awakened forms/bodies) are more powerful then her, but she and the manga, NEVER said that they were to be the next ranks 1+2 to replace Alicia+Beth.
I feel your argument doesn't work because this is your argument:
non-stealth/non-"NYS"/non-"cloaked" Miria would pwn Galatea because STEALTH/"NYS"/CLOAKED Miria was able to pwn Audrey.
this makes no sense to me
We have NEVER seen non-stealth/non-"NYS"/non-"cloaked" Miria pwning Audrey, we've only seen STEALTH/"NYS"/CLOAKED Miria pwning Audrey, and ONLY a single time at that. Other then this single instance, Audrey (and Rachel) has NEVER "squared off" (fought) against any/all of the Ghosts, including thus Miria.
We just don't know how any of the Ghosts would do against Audrey and Rachel if they weren't STEALTH/"NYS"/CLOAKED, as we've never seen any of the Ghosts as non-stealth/non-"NYS"/non-"cloaked" battling against Audrey and Rachel.
Ya, Audrey and Rachel got pwned by Riful, and the 4 HA Ghosts didn't, BUT This was AGAIN because of their STEALTH/"NYS"/CLOAKED 'edness, and Clare herself (Clare, the most powerful of the Ghosts) said that Riful would ~"tear her to pieces" if she actually tried to stay and battle with Riful both with and without her STEALTH/"NYS"/CLOAKED 'edness!
Also, Miata called Galatea "Very Strong" along with Miria+Clare. (if you need source, I can find/provide it).
Miata's "Very Strong" = Galatea, Miria, and Clare
Miata's "Strong" = Helen, Deneve, Yuma, Tabatha, and Cynthia
Last edited by HegemonKhan; December 23, 2010 at 02:28 AM.
Total Votes: 27
Teresa: 22 votes = 81.48%
Isley: 5 votes = 18.52%
Teresa vs. Isley
this keeps the others ones nicely aligned Teresa
Teresa needs no introduction, and there's already massive debates with all the information there is about Teresa vs Priscilla already on this site, such as the Teresa vs Priscilla thread here.
(Please use such threads like the one mentioned above and other threads or sources for reference if need be, as all the information there is about these two and their match up with each other is already out there)
most or all threads on this site for reference:
01. Teresa vs Priscilla
02. Beyond a Claymore, but not an Awakened
03. Priscilla Compendium Thread
04. ~Is 10% yoki release all Teresa could do? thread
05. Fantasy Fights Thread
06. ~Will Priscilla become a good guy? thread
07. ~how Teresa could stop Quick Sword
08. ~Should Priscilla be cosidered an Abyssal One? thread
09. Defeating Priscilla thread
10. Priscilla vs Destroyer thread
11. ~Is Priscilla off or def type? thread
12. ~Why didn't Teresa fight Abyssal ones? thread
13. ~Who is this mysterious little girl? thread. it's about Priscilla, because the little girl is Priscilla
So, this is the long awaited re-match to finally settle it once and for all, grins! This time though there will be no corruption, we'll have a known winner, once and for all!
Teresa will NOT "hold back" against Priscilla, Teresa will use her full power and will be intent on killing Priscilla. No softness BS, no mercy, no laxness, no letting down her guard, no letting down her yoki release or power level, no thinking the fight is over and stopping, none of that we've already seen. This is Teresa of the Faint Smile at her full power, full ruthless cruelty - "take no prisoners", this is the true legendary:
"TERESA THE MONSTER"
this keeps the others ones nicely aligned Isley
Isley was first mentioned to us by Riful telling Clare about him having "acquired/tamed" (it's revealed later that actually Priscilla pwned him) a female one horned winged demon Awakened (Priscilla). He's then shown to us with Raki emerging from one of the towns in Alphonse with the underground cells where the Slave Traders had taken him to, just a few chapters before the Pieta Battle. Isley is the 1st Abyssal One, and is known as Isley the Silver King. He's actually the cruelest of the 3 Abyssal One, according to Riful, and revealed by himself as he tells Rigardo to CRUSH ALL LIFE at Pieta, and not just the 24 Claymores there. Luciela as well affirms the cruelty of Isley, saying how she hates his "pretty boy" true-real human-appearing body, as underneath he HATES others and intentionally sent his entire 30 AB army to a suicidal/kamekaze death.
Isley's combat specs. His swordsmanship is legendary. He can create his Bow N Arrow arm mode while not in his Awakened body, but his attacks with it is much weaker and he can't control the flight path of his arrows. We also see Isley battling Deneve+Helen too, but I forgot what he does/attacks with in this battle. Though you guys/girls can look it up on your own.
However, Isley in his Awakened body, a huge but extremely fast (faster then even Rigardo) Centaur body, is much more formable obviously. He has many Arm Modes. His Bow N Arrow Arm-Mode with is much more powerful and he can control the flight path of his arrows. He's also got his Axe Arm, Claw Arm, Broad Sword Arm, Shield Arm, and Lance Arm. Isley can regenerate, though we haven't ever seen him doing so within a battle's time frame.
this keeps the others ones nicely aligned
Cast your vote and discuss (logically) why you voted for who you voted for. Have fun, but keep it clean!
Last edited by HegemonKhan; December 27, 2010 at 12:14 AM.
HK that is, in itself, my point. If "cloaked" Miria can pawn Audrey so can "non-cloaked" Miria. Audrey isn't the sensing type as pointed out by Riful, so fighting against one with a suppressed arua shouldn't have put Audrey at any disadvantage due to lacking the ability to read Miria's arura. She's a visual based fighter to begin with so fighting against a yoki suppressed warrior isn't a handicap. Plus Audrey already knew of Miria's suppressed aura so it's not like she was taken aback by a surprise attack.
The series has shown no benefit cloaked auras minus the ability to hide once out of sight and hindering advantages of yoki reading/prediction. It's not like we're saying this is a fight in a dense forest, thus giving a cloaked Miria an advantage by letting her more easily setting up sneak attacks. Look I'm not saying Miria was on par with an awakened Riful that would be like 50 times how strong I'm implying Miria is... but I do see this as implying Miria is roughly on par with Alicia in human form and lets face it Alicia would pawn Audrey in human form. I see Miria as reaching about the pinnacle of #1 but without hitting the "beyond Abyssal" level that I see Teresa and Priscilla as being the only members of as of yet (in human form).
Please recall there last fight... Audrey looked very worried before it began but Rachel charged in anyways. Slashing Miria's throat only to notice too late it was a phantom and the real Miria was now behind her. At that moment Audrey made her move but she scored 2 hits on a phantom herself only to to have her chest sliced open by Miria. So Audrey got the attack from behind while having full knowledge of Miria's abilities but still ended up face down on the ground after only a move. Audrey had no disadvantages that would have effected that exchange other than sheer lack of yoki against Miria. Lets face it if we where to repeat that fight a thousand times over with Miria's yoki uncloaked it would have turned out like that every time or if Miria choose to attack first ended without Audrey being able to take a single swing. That fight was on par with Cynthia's attempt to swing at Rigardo.
Sorry I see Miata as calling the smell around Rabona and the later comparison of the ghosts as two separate events and thus different comparisons that don't directly correlate. On top of that Miata seemed unable to distinguish if that very strong warrior outside of Rabona was solely Galatea, solely Agatha, or if she was mixing up both of them. Miata never called Galatea very strong to her face or in her presence, only outside the city and I see that as a major difference. Plus person X is called very strong by character y... Now lets say now character y is standing next to character x and lets say Teresa and then character y only calls Teresa "very" strong but calls X strong too does that make X weaker or only Teresa that much stronger than the last "very" strong statement. In short I see it as a mistake to assume two separate "very strong" statements are in fact gauging the same level of power, especially after new characters are revealed and it was never clear who the first "very" strong warrior was.
excellent point about Audrey, I would never had realized my error in thought! thank you! Miria is indeed far superior to Audrey as you so greatly explained, and thus superior to Galatea, unless Audrey really is weak for a rank 3. maybe I should change my stance about Clarice's Era being equal to Clare's Era, and believe Clarice's Era is indeed weaker
I have to disagree with you about the Miata scent thing though.
Miata was clearly talking about Galatea in my view. Miata had just sniff-followed Galatea's yoki's odor trail to Rabona, and indicating that Galatea is in Rabona when she then makes the comment about "Very Strong". This to me directly says she's referencing Galatea, and for further support, Miata had NO idea about Agatha, prior to Agatha's emergence. Miata being the uber smeller she is, could certainly distinguish between Galatea's yoki's odor trail and Agatha's smell or her yoki's smell. So, again, I still feel Miata was adressing Galatea as "Very Strong".
Well, I believe Audrey is more of a # 4 and just #3 since Miata is so unstable. On top of that Clare's gen was clearly stronger than Teresa's (excluding Teresa/Priscilla and Alicia/Beth)... so yes Audrey maybe weaker than Galatea but Sophia was rank 3 for a time and Audrey and Sophia seem about the same to me (all be it, one's defensive and ones offensive). So over all I believe the gens are on par just with Clare gen having unusually strong #3-5 and Miata's unstableness likely effected Audrey's ranking. Put another way only Rachel and Audrey of the new gen seem weak to me, all the rest seem as about as strong as the previous gen if not stronger, for example who doesn't see Anastasia kicking Eva's butt.
Now as to the scent... I see no reason why it couldn't be solely Galatea's scent but that still doesn't mean that her very strong statement A had as much weight as statement B. After all Miata didn't say of the 2 are very strong and oh lets not forget about Galatea over there... she said all the others are strong too but those 2 make the rest look like jokes. I belief Galatea was included in that statement or at the very least if she wasn't inferred to be than she would have gotten her own listing as being very strong again too. After all Miata was informing mommy of just how amazing ever warrior standing in front of them was and it'd be most like her to tell her if Galatea qualified as very strong or just strong there too. Miata doesn't strike me as the type to not tell mommy the full truth. So once again I see this as two separate "very" strong statements each with a different basis of what constitutes "very strong", the possible statement referring to Galatea was based on there past experiences up till the vs fodder yoma and ABs and the later statement implying Clare and Miara was based on after witnessing Agatha and Galatea in a fight. I short "very" strong is ambiguous at best and two very strong statements from the same person don't always have the same context. Put another way if Miata was hunting down deneve she might have called her very strong since in she sense she is, but after seeing Miria and calling her very strong too doesn't make Deneve as strong as Miria just because both where called very strong.
Next off I just see the way she worded it as implying they where stronger than even her... and Galatea said herself she wasn't as strong as Miata prior to that.
Last edited by Ryus; December 23, 2010 at 12:50 PM.
I voted for miria because she is half awakened and so she has more yoki reserves, otherwise would be hard to see ( gala is defensive type – less yoki reserves- but she is a higher number then miria
Last edited by HegemonKhan; December 26, 2010 at 02:08 AM.
So... anyone out there want to vote for Isley?
If we consider she took down the Destroyer, then all arguments are useless
But I think Isley and Teresa are pretty evenly matched. They're both monsters in the eyes of awakened beings. He can't fight her with arrows, so I think this fight would be similar to Isley vs Pris. Only longer and bloodier. I vote for Teresa.
Teresa for me is still the strongest Claymore so my vote is for Teresa
Total Votes: 24
Galatea: 5 votes = 20.83%
Miria: 19 votes = 79.17%
There's no going back now. LOL! Teresa is the queen/king of all monster in Claymore!
If anyone didn't like Teresa winning the Priscilla Fight and the Destroyer Fight, then this Fight is especially for you guys/girls to decide whether Teresa could win against Isley or not. Please tell us why Teresa and Isley would win or lose, as well as voting for whomever!
Total Votes: 27
Teresa: 22 votes = 81.48%
Isley: 5 votes = 18.52%
Last edited by HegemonKhan; December 27, 2010 at 12:14 AM.