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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
Total Votes: 13
Deneve: 11 = 84.62%
Helen: 2 = 15.38%
Miria would win this conflict. She easily defeated a host of Claymores including the current #3 and #5, Audrey and Rachel respectively. Had she gone to the Organization to annihalte everyone, she would have savagely and ruthlessly executed everyone, including the twins.
Renee can sense Youki from a great distance and has great speed. Apart from this, Yagi does not disclose anything on Renee's battle experience and effectiveness. Given that Miria has prevailed against other "groups" of high ranking Claymores and "groups" of ABs, she would easily prevail against this single opponent. The Lady of Illusions wins.
There are unofficial versions online that I read in English, Portuguese, Spanish, Italian and every time when I'm able to do it, in French, and all of them the translation is almost the same. I'll quote:
Italian: “quando libero il mio youki …divento la piu forte tra la mie 47 compagne.”
Spanish: “no os habia dicho que el incremento de mi poder cuando lo libero … es el mayor de entre las 47 claymores.”
French: “on m'a dit que quand je libere, mon pouvoir est ...celui qui augmente le plus de toutes les 47 claymores.”
Portuguese: “Após liberar energia youma … dizem que entre as 47, sou a mais forte.”
Brazilian official version: “[...]Consideram minha youriki liberada …a maior de todas as 47 guerreiras.”
I collect the official Brazilian versions, and the Japanese officials versions that I also import. My Japanese teacher supports those translations and so does my friend who is also fluent in Japanese.
It's said in all those languages that - when releasead - Galatea's youki power is the biggest or the strongest among all 47 warriors, but we exclude Alicia & Beth because everyone knows they are a special case.
Only by this, to me, Galatea would be the winner because by increasing her youki, her power would rise as all her attributes, and they would exceed Ophelia's as it became clear that the #3's youki is bigger or stronger than #4's, and everyone knows that youki is a very important factor in a fight, especially in a 1x1 match, at least, who can think logically. Anyway, that post you recommend is just a good speculation, as good as any other if you ask me, since in all manga it isn't stated in any where any formula of that kind...
By the way, Riful says it's virtually impossible to control her opponent's movements, especially if he/she is stronger than her, then it's easy to deduce that if the opponent is weaker it would much easier to manipulate him/her, and Ophelia would be weaker, and she could be irritated/deceived by Galatea's ability to read emotions and feelings.
Ps.: Man, you got me tired now, lol.
for me, Teresa+Priscilla, have the undisputedly greatest power levels in the manga, thus far.
This would mean that Galatea can't have the greatest power level, so whatever is what is actually suppose to be said in the raw Japanese manga by Yagi, Galatea must be refering to having the greatest/highest/biggest "multiplier".
Also, Galatea HERSELF, said that she was inferior to Awakened rank 2 Agatha. (though, *maybe* she's lying/faking being this weak...)
I have my own totally speculatory formula too, lol.
BPL = Base Power Level
FPL = Final Power Level
YR = Yoki Release = 0-100%
GM = "Galatea's Multiplier"
BPL x YR x GM = FPL
some made up examples and (very poor choice of) numbers for them:
Human: 1 BPL = 1 FPL
Claymore Clarice: 10 BPL x 10 YR x 1 GM = 100 FPL
Claymore Ophelia: 100 BPL x 10 YR x 1 GM = 1,000 FPL
Claymore Galatea: 50 BPL x 10 YR x 10 GM = 5,000 FPL
Claymore Ophelia: 100 BPL x 70 YR x 1 GM = 7,000 FPL
Claymore Galatea: 50 BPL x 70 YR x 10 GM = 35,000 FPL
Awakened Ophelia: 200 BPL x 10 YR x 1 GM =2,000 FPL
Awakened Galatea: 100 BPL x 10 YR x 10 GM = 10,000 FPL
Awakened Ophelia: 200 BPL x 100 YR x 1 GM =20,000 FPL
Awakened Galatea: 100 BPL x 100 YR x 10 GM = 100,000 FPL
Claymore Irene: 1,000 BPL x 10 YR x 1 GM = 10,000 FPL
I believe Goral has some theory about different qualities of yoki.
this is just too complicated for me. I like to keep it as simple as possible (so I can understand, lol)
just some comments to what I read from your posts:
1. Miria did say that the FPL gaps from ranks 6 -> 5 -> 4 -> 3 -> 2 -> 1 grows larger.
whereas: ranks 6-9 are roughly equal in FPL, ranks 11-19 are roughly equal in FPL, ranks 20-29 are roughly equal in FPL, and ranks 30-47 are roughly equal in FPL.
as we know now: rank 10 is a special case/rank (unknown FPL)
entirely made up figures:
(x2 gap in FPL)
(x3 gap in FPL)
(x4 gap in FPL)
(x5 gap in FPL)
(x6 gap in FPL)
2. I also feel that Dauf was superior to Galatea, that she could not fatally damage him, could not kill him, but we've no idea if Ophelia could fatally damage him as well. Clare too could not even slice him (except once through his hand when she was releasing yoki and peeved, ~"Tell me the name of the man in the north, I'm going to KILL HIS WOMAN! RAWRRRR!". Riful: ~"That's some attitude towards me, the Abyssal One Rif.." Clare: ~"STFU! Just tell me his name, so that I can find him and kill his woman! RAWWRRR!" hehe, awesome dialogue! one of my favorites). ONLY Jean's Drill Sword was able to fatally damage Dauf (and they would have killed Dauf too, if Riful didn't save her beloved Dauf from them), as it seems to be the most destructive attack thus far in the manga. Later on, Helen would use her extendable Drill Sword to possibly almost killing Isley too, lol.
Last edited by HegemonKhan; November 26, 2010 at 05:18 AM.
I voted for Noel, as for me, speed+agility wins over brute strength. (what good is strength, when you can't hit? Also, strength is more for going against Yomas, as all Claymores are "soft-skinned", a.k.a. easily cutable, killable with whatever strength level. Now, if a Claymore doesn't have the strength to parry another Claymore's sword swing, like Raki against Ophelia with her hitting his Rabona broadsword into his shoulder, then strength matters, but I don't think we've ever seen such with swordsmanship parrying between Claymores). Noel, thanks to her speed and agility, faired/did better against Teresa and Priscilla, than did Sophia. Noel, never got cut (I think) by Teresa, and she was able to slice off Awakened Priscilla's arm, whereas Sophia wasn't able to damage her at all.
Otherwise, they are quite equal to each other in their performances.
Last edited by HegemonKhan; November 26, 2010 at 06:04 AM.
Why would we exclude A&B? It's written in black and white - "Galatea's youki is the biggest of all 47 warriors". All. Which means including A&B.
Moderator message by: HegemonKhanEditted this out to avoid a flame war
Last edited by HegemonKhan; November 27, 2010 at 05:40 AM. Reason: basically it said that Fe's opinion of the translations were wrong and vice versa, nearly becoming a flame war
sighs. this might be the most difficult fight decision of possibly the entire tournament, at least for me.
****I finally decided to vote for Galatea****
here's my reasoning and thought processi:
Galatea did fight pretty well against Awakened rank 3 Dauf. Also, Clare couldn't kill Dauf either (though Clare did better against Dauf than Galatea in my opinion. And not jsut defensively with her-Clare's unique yoki sensing ability. Clare had greater "raw brute strength" than Galatea with being able to stop Dauf's rod and shove it back at him with enough force to knock him over, not to mention succeeding in "cutting" Riful, hehe. Though Galatea had greater "cutting strength"). However, Clare was able to kill Awakened rank 4 Ophelia. This suggests that Awakened rank 3 Dauf is indeed superior to Awakened rank 4 Ophelia. So, since Galatea did pretty well against Dauf, she should do even better against Ophelia.
Galatea also did very well in a 1v2 against rank 1 Miata and Awakened rank 2 Agatha. Whereas, rank 2 Irene completely pwned Claymore rank 4 Ophelia, and then Clare with Irene's arm and Quick Sword (dealing/having half of Irene's power) pwned Awakened rank 4 Ophelia too.
After facing Awakened rank 3 Dauf and then a 1v2 against rank 1 Miata and Awakened rank 2 Agatha, Blindness Enhanced God Eye rank 3 Galatea had to be saved by Ghost rank 40 Yuma throwing her sword at 1 of the 2 ABs (whom were ~ ranks 26-47) that were double teaming Galatea, killing it for Galatea?! HUH, this makes no sense... V.V
Galatea's erratic/uncertain power level makes her an uncertainty, which favors towards Ophelia, and away from her-Galatea.
sheer power level (though we do not know how it compares with Galatea's power level, grr).
"Rippling Sword", if Clare's unique yoki sensing proved useless, so would Galatea's yoki sensing also. Galatea would be just as helpless as Clare was.
Ophelia really has no flaws or uncertainties.
Galatea had a hard time against Dauf's rods, and Agatha's tentacles (though it was 1v2 against her-Galatea), so she might have a hard time against Awakened Ophelia with ehr shooting projectiles with her short-blade-arm-thingies.
Claymore Ophelia killed an Awakened single digit ranked female AB with a single sword slice attack! (Ophelia knew she could play around/tease/trick/defeat it easily, so she allowed it to think it could win and let it have its way with her, just like Teresa had done with Awakened rank 1 Rosemary, as Teresa knew she could easily kill Rosemary too, so Teresa let Rosemary smash her around a bit). Whereas Galatea had to be saved by Yuma from a double team of 2 ABs (whom where ~ ranks 26-47).
Claymore Ophelia can't regenerate, whereas Galatea can.
If Galatea's power level is greater then Ophelia's or if she can distract Ophelia (though this might be unlikely, as Ophelia seems quite the solid warrior, and wouldn't allow herself to be distracted by Galatea), THEN her Yoki Manipulation will work against Ophelia.
Ophelia never battled Awakened rank 3 Dauf, rank 1 Miata, nor Awakened rank 2 Agatha, only rank 2 Irene and Clare with Irene's arm and Quick Sword.
Ophelia is certainly extremely powerful. I'm not in any way denying this.
The problem is that we don't know how powerful Galatea is, as she fought near-unkillable Dauf, and then a 1v2 against rank 1 Miata and Awakened rank 2 Agatha, which she seemed to not be using/releasing as much yoki as she had when she fought against Dauf. Which doesn't make sense either. Though, as I think I said in a previous post, someone had the theory that Galatea was able to resist yoki better and so she could release the same amount of yoki before when she fought Dauf and had her "ugly face and buff-masculine body", but now not have that "ugly face and buff-masculine body"
As impressive as it was for Ophelia to kill that single-digit ranked female AB with a single sword slice attack, I know I can accurately say that it certainly wasn't a rank 1-4, so that would make it only being a rank 5-9. Now Awakened Hilda was a rank 6, but I too have doubts about that battle, as I feel that Awakened Hilda probably didn't really even fight back, wanting/allowing herself to be killed. Whereas or compared to, Galatea, who was battling Awakened rank 3 Dauf, a 1v2 against Awakened rank 2 Agatha and rank 1 Miata.
Last edited by HegemonKhan; November 26, 2010 at 07:13 AM.
Voting for Galatea... ranks exist for a reason. Ophelia's yoki in the databook was equal to Galatea's however this means that Ophelia would be unable to over power Galatea's attempts to use yoki manipulation on her. On top of that even though both where ranked A in the databook Goral is right about that line, so even if Ophelia is in the same league as Galatea (with the most conservative of translations) Ophelia will always come out below her. In short no matter how much Ophelia releases her yoki to overcome Yoki manipulation Galatea can always do one better... on top of that Ophelia has a weak base will in the databook so she won't last long against an opponent who can control her actions and whom she can't land a hit on.
Its difficult to choose coz I think they have almost the same amount of power but in different ways (Sophia = strength, Noel = agility) so I voted for Noel.
I agree with HegemonKhan agility wins over strength.
Vote for Noel... while the databook does support Sophia being the #4 and Noel being #5. There scores are as follows:
- Both have a yoki level of B
- As for Agility vs Strength Sophia has the A+ strength but average (C) agility while Noel is the reverse of that... so it's a trade off.
- Both have B's for willpower and sensing abilities.
- However Sophia has the better leadership score (B vs C)... and I think that is why she is ranked above Noel and why Noel thinks she's the better fighter. In short the org had a choice of the better fighter against a non armored opponent with average leadership abilities vs a warrior better suited for being a battering ram but with above average leadership abilities. In short they where neck and neck combat ability wise with Noel having the slight edge but Sophia could be more reliable as a troop leader and of the two if they where ever sent out on the same mission it's better to have the wiser on in charge (in short she was just more dependable on a hunt and both where about equal and any match up would be close (on paper anyways)). Even if leadership also translates to intelligence in a fight there isn't much of a gap... Plus Noel strikes me as more instinctual of a fighter with very good reflexes and therefore might be able to avoid any "plans" on reflex.
However in a death match situation agility trumps brute strength IMHO... especially against a fellow warrior where there is no armor to give the added strength much meaning. That said Sophia could win this based on circumstance, though the odds favor Noel.
Good match up though... I'd prefer close matches than easy calls. Wish we could have matches between warriors at points in there life though... such as Miria at time of Pieta vs Renee (the whole ghost Miria vs Renee seemed to easy to call IMHO, except the votes will agree with that...).
Last edited by Ryus; November 26, 2010 at 01:31 PM.
Because Alicia and Beth are specials? Because they can awaken? Are those motives not enough for we to exclude them? Interpretation and good sense are always good if we can think logically.
Moderator message by: HegemonKhanEditted this content out to avoid flame war
Don't know if it's off topic, if it is please remove this post.
Last edited by HegemonKhan; November 27, 2010 at 05:39 AM. Reason: basically it said that goral's opinion of the translations were wrong and vice versa, nearly becoming a flame war
I'll allow the already made post(s) as they have good content, Alicia+Beth were being used as a comparison reference for whether Galatea/Ophelia would win, and/or they're about a text line what deals with a factor to consider for whom would win this fight, but no more debating translations (as it's off-topic and about to become a flame war between you two!), because ... translations are translations (no translation is perfect, without getting into why this is)
debate/discuss the Fight, not a single specific translated text line, as there's much more to consider than this single translated text line which is in conflict with each other versions of it.
instead, since the translations are in conflict with each other, use (again) what is "seen" (pic or other non-conflicting translated texts lol) within the manga, for deciding whom would win. Decide if Galatea "has the strongest power level or yoki power level" or not, based on other sources than just those single translation text lines which are in conflict with each other.
feel free to (civilly) discuss/argue/debate whether Galatea has the most powerful power level or yoki power level, based on anything ELSE (but NOT the conflicting translation lines). Feel free to support each of your views using all the OTHER content from manga!
Let's continue to civilly debate/discuss the FIGHT as you two have been doing so well, both making excellent points/posts, and not get into a flame war over conflicting translations!
Discussion/debate of the different versions of the translation line in question is over though, as you're about to get into flame war over it, and I don't want that to happen to you two, as you've both had such great and civil arguments/debating posts so far.
**No more discussion of this translation line and its different-conflicting versions!**
**Flame Wars will be dealt with harshly!**
Last edited by HegemonKhan; November 26, 2010 at 09:18 PM.
Hmmn, I give this to Galetea. My reasoning bieng that she did fight for while with Dauf, and seems to have done even better than Claire did. And the fact she's more stable than Ophelia. Ophelia is prone to doing stupid things like playing games, and toying with her opponents, and if their isn't a huge gap, then that is a mistake.
Total Votes: 13
Audrey: 11 votes = 84.62%
Rachel: 2 votes = 15.38%