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Translations: Gintama 515 (2)
this is bothering me for 3 days, i reread all the chapters and noticed that in chapter 45 when galatea fought duff, If miria fought duff instead of galatea what could've happened?
Last edited by melvo 17; April 21, 2010 at 10:55 AM.
the biggest problem with Miria is that we don't know exactly how powerful (strong-offensive might) she is. The manga never never never mentions a single thing about Miria's strength/offensive might.
all we have are her battles:
1. Miria was able to cut the multi-armed male AB
2. Miria was able to cut Agatha.
3. Miria was able to cut Riful. (Riful DOES have hard/harder skin like Dauf does)
4. Miria never damaged Rigardo. Whether she had the strength/offensive might to cut him or not we don't know.
can anyone think of any more battles of Miria, in terms of her strength/offensive might?
at the time of the Witches Maw, Miria WAS (and still is, but traitor) a rank 6 (despite being a HA). Galatea was (and still is, but traitor) a rank 3.
unless Miria could cut (and kill) Dauf immediately, Miria would get PWNED by Dauf. At this time, Miria only had her Phantom Step, meaning limited uses of speed bursts.
Galatea was far superior to Miria at this time.
And, even Galatea got PWNED by Dauf.
as for currently,
it is hard to say how Blindness-Yoki-Enhanced Claymore Galatea vs Ghost HA Miria compare.
personally, I feel Miria is superior to Galatea*. but, I'm not that sure of this opinion of my own. it's definately debatable either way.
*(solely due to her-Miria's speed. look at how speed alone made Rigardo superior to the 24 Claymores, of ranks 6-47. then look at how partially awakened weird-horse-legged Clare was boosted up to being a rival/equal to Rigardo, just from the speed she-Clare had gained. last example of speed is of Priscilla decapitating poor Alicia. When priscilla got serious, she moved so fast that by the time Alicia realized Priscilla was right in front of her, Priscilla's hand was already removing Alicia's head from her neck. actually one last example of speed. Priscilla traveled so fast from Alicia+Beth battle to in front of Riful, that Riful couldn't even flinch her eyelids once).
(I won't address why in greater deatail... unless people are interested in what this opinion of mine is based upon in full detail, which will be somewhat lengthy... well kinda maybe)
Last edited by HegemonKhan; April 21, 2010 at 09:28 PM.
To put it simply, during that particular time should Miria had fought Duph, she would've been crushed. No need to go over in-depth with them.
If you want to know the details, it would've been something along the lines of Miria dodging, tries to escape, Duph then seals the entrance, Miria eventually tires out, crushed, Riful captures her. The end. Theres a reason why she was Number 6 at the time.
(this isn't a response to you bowser, as we are in agreement)
here's a more detailed and clear way to look at it:
1. Galatea has no hard skin like Dauf does
2. Dauf has hard skin
3. Both Dauf and Galatea CAN regenerate, however neither can do so within a battle's time frame. So their ability of regeneration is useless in the context of a battle. A dead warrior can't regenerate after the battle is over.
Galatea vs Miria:
Since Miria can cut/slice Galatea up, with her speed, Miria WILL cut/slice Galatea up.
Dauf vs Miria:
Depends whether Miria has enough power/strength to cut/slice Dauf up or not. The speed will definately help Miria (Dauf himself doesn't move much nor quickly, but his rods that he shoots out from his body DO move fast and he can shoot a lot of them too in rapid fire), however, her speed is meaningless if she can't cut/slice (kill) Dauf.
if Miria can't cut/slice (kill) Dauf:
1. Before-Pieta Miria would run out of yoki for her (faster) Phantom Step ability and Dauf will kill Miria.
2. After-Pieta Miria would (in theory) never run out of yoki, as her (slower) Mirage Step ability doesn't need yoki. The battle would be an endless tie, as neither can kill the other.
Galatea vs Dauf:
1. Before-Pieta Galatea LOST to Dauf.
*Galatea (not using her full power) was about to be crushed to death by Dauf's rod, but Clare saved her (and then Galatea saved Clare from awakening, by helping Clare regain control of her yoki and body)
*Galatea (using her full power) was able to cut/slice Dauf at least some places (we don't know if Galatea could slice/cut Dauf's vital spots of his body to kill him though), however, Dauf still PWNED Galatea anyways. When Clare arrived with Jean, Galatea was nearly dead with a huge Dauf rod impaled through her stomach (just like Beth was with the Destroyer's rod, except the the Destroyer's rod was even bigger, well thicker lol anyways, and of course had its infection). Galatea was completely out of the fight, having spent all her yoki, except for a tiny bit, which she used to keep Dauf's mouth closed as Jean Drill Sword 'ed through Dauf's chest.
2. After-Pieta Galatea is open for us to decide.
I personally think Galatea would be able to handle Dauf now. So the question, comes down to whether Galatea has the power/strength to cut/slice Dauf fatally to kill him, or not.
Actually, I'm not so sure, due to the fact that Galatea herself said that she couldn't even beat Agatha. Now, granted, Agatha is a rank 2, whereas Dauf is a rank 3. Still, it's hard to say if Agatha is superior to Dauf.
So, maybe Galatea actually still would get PWNED by Dauf. Or, maybe Galatea could handle Dauf. It's hard to tell.
1. she's a higher rank than Dauf is. Agatha=rank 2 > Dauf=rank 3.
2. Galatea herself said that she could NOT win against Agatha.
3. Agatha DOES pwn Galatea (however, Agatha has "help" from Miata also attacking Galatea)
4. Agatha was afraid of Miata. Using Miata's combat immaturity/stupidity in continuing to attack Galatea, Agatha took the opportunity to gradually use her special "needle rain" attack on Miata as she was the threat, not Galatea. Agatha had to destroy Miata first, because Miata had the power to destroy Agatha. Galatea didn't.
5. as mentioned, Agatha has her special and powerful "needle rain" attack.
6. Agatha's Awakened body acts as like an exoskeleton/shell that envelops her real "human" body, allowing her (her real "human" body with its vital organs) to move around inside her Awakened body.
7. Agatha can also use her Awakened body to create a fake "human" body to fool her opponents.
8. Agatha can be cut easily though.
9. Agatha was helpless against the teamwork of the 7 Ghosts, and Clare really showed off against Agatha and at her expense (socially-embarrasment and literally-death, lol)
10. Cid was able to decapitate Agatha's fake "human" head.
so... Agatha IS quite impressive (at least ignoring the teamwork of 7 Ghosts against her). But, how to analyze how she'd compare to Dauf. Is Agatha truly superior to Dauf as a rank 2 and he is just an inferior rank 3 to her? Or, are they equal to each other, despite their different ranks? Or, is Dauf actually superior to Agatha, despite their different ranks? Whom would win (whom would kill who) if it was Agatha vs Dauf, Agatha or Dauf?
Last edited by HegemonKhan; April 22, 2010 at 11:36 PM.
I'd give the upper hand to Galatea. Even during her fight against Agatha we never saw her fight at her full power due to her vanity. If she were to forgo her vanity and just release (remember, the power boost she gets from releasing her Yoki is greater than any other warrior of her time) then I'm pretty sure she could take Miata. But if she let her vanity get in the way she'd be dead.
those are some very good points White Silver King!
though, i'd say it still depends if Galatea gets faster, when she releases her yoki, like you pointed out that we haven't seen her release near 80% yoki (or did we... I'll have to go back to the Witches Maw chapters and see if it tells just how much yoki she released or didn't release).
If Galatea has the Yoki Control Ability or not. (This however to work, requires the user to be more powerful by X amount than the target is, or for the target to be distracted).
Strength alone is useless, if you can't hit or keep up with your opponent. Especially if your opponent uses that speed advantage to kill you first... lol.
actually we already see this type of battle:
Galatea vs MIATA (+Agatha, lol)
Miata is faster then Galatea, and Galatea gets pwned by her (though Galatea wasn't trying to fight-kill Miata, whereas Miata was. And Galatea had to deal with Agatha as well, but so did Miata too...)
MIATA had the speed advantage (as well as power level advantage being a rank 1, according to Rimuto and Rado), and Galatea seemed completely helpless against her speed advantage.
So, I'd say Miria should be able to pwn Galatea, unless Galatea can become as fast as Miria (from releasing her yoki) or if Galatea has and is able to use Yoki Control on Miria.
(Clare herself didn't keep up with the slower Mirage Step using Miria, but her Windcutter did, when they sparred their 2nd time against each other)
Last edited by HegemonKhan; August 30, 2010 at 05:33 PM.
^I meant Miria. But I think she could defeat Miata if she was actually trying to kill her, got over her vanity, didn't have to deal with Agatha (Miata wasn't focusing on her nearly as much as Galatea was) and wasn't trying to protect Rabona. Those are a lot of things holding her back.
Well, now that I have read the last chapters of the manga, I'm sure Miria wins. Reasons are:
As for Miria v Galatea. Pre-Pieta, Galatea wins. Post-Pieta, Miria wins.
Last edited by Freeloadersan; January 22, 2011 at 05:23 PM.
Galatea rank 3 vs Miria rank 6 = Galatea wins.
Blind/Hiding/Sister Latea vs Ghost Miria = Miria wins.
Not much to say, you can see the outcome of their power after Miria trained hard and Galatea just sitting and hiding.
I can't believe Galatea allowed herself not to advance as much as Miria did. But she's just a minor character anyways.
maybe not, as Helen shown by taking Galatea to Clare+Destroyer+Priscilla "blob", as Galatea is the best of them at Yoki Sensing Abilities, and might be able to play a major role in saving/helping our Clare, hehe.
the problem with Galatea is that she turned "civilian" too, just like Irene. Irene and Galatea "forever" gave up their "sword". They wanted to live out the rest of their lives in peace and not as warriors. they gave up on fighting, on being warriors. this is the only reason Galatea has been surpassed.
Last edited by HegemonKhan; January 22, 2011 at 11:49 PM.
I think with her fight versus Dauf she didn't went all out. I mean I'm not really satisfied with her performance. She said she had the highest or strongest yoki from all of the warriors of her generation when she released it. But what's the use of it? I think that was not very efficient at all. I was expecting for something. I was expecting that she can beat Dauf at that time or just be of equal with him. And honestly, I'm quite disappointed.
We can tell that, yes she is logically beatable since Dauf is the male's generation Rank no. 3 and we all know the difference of males between females in terms of power as explained by... Oh I forgot who told that but I'm pretty sure he's one of the MiBs. Also, Dauf is an AB and she's just a plain warrior. There is a huge difference.
Another thing that I was thinking at that time was that she know she can match Dauf or do heavy damage to him but she held back since she doesn't want to anger Riful. But I won't hold to that, I think that conclusion can go to nothing. I think her idea to use Jean so they could neutralize Dauf can support to that.
Galatea's battle versus Agatha is another thing that bothers me. If I remember correctly she didn't even scratched Agatha. Yes, she told it herself that she cannot match her. And her chances decreases when Miata turned on her too.
But I think Miria can't also match Agatha plus Miata just by herself unless she can perceive her real body. I think it was Tabitha who did that. Plus, they were six of them slicing off Agatha simultaneously. Wow! It took seven powerful warriors to kill Agatha, I wonder what Galatea is thinking expecting that she could kill Agatha if Miata sided with her. I might be missing something again here.
So how did Galatea became rank no. 3 in the first place?
If you ask me, I think she is pretty weak when we consider her combat ability especially when it comes to 1 vs 1. And I'm basing it on the story. Again, this conclusion might go false since I've never seen her fight other ABs or more powerful enemies. But her yoki perception is superb. Nobody can match her in that.
Now, I was thinking how do the organization rank their warriors? They rank them depending on their usability. They put those which they can use for utility purposes like tracking, silent purges, data gathering and the likes. And Galatea is very useful considering those objectives the organization have.
But that theory is not applicable during Teresa's era. So now I'm really confused. We can see during Teresa's era, they were ranked based on their raw power. Teresa was the strongest, followed by Irene and so on. We can see that all those in the top 5 are offensive warriors. I think this can also be true with Isley and Riful's era. I just don't know with Luciela's era.
I honestly think that at that time when Galatea is still rank no. 3, Miria can match her. Because really, with that yoki release during her fight versus Dauf, I think that was a waste. I think that is not effective unless you make use of it. She lacked a certain 'technique' to put that enormous yoki into something useful. Well, she might get overpowered if she possessed something like that.
Miria is not that dumb like Dauf, so I think she knows how to counter Galatea's Yoki manipulation ability. But I don't know how Galatea would react to her Phantom ability. If Galatea can perceive her movements beforehand and have the speed that can match Miria's then that will make her far superior than Miria.
In this case, I was wondering if Galatea and Teresa have the same ability, except Galatea's has a wider range. I was thinking if her Unparalleled yoki sensing ability is the same with Teresa's Acute yoki sensing ability.
I am really confused. I might be missing something and I will be very thankful if somebody could tell me about that.
Last edited by Godeye_Galatea; January 23, 2011 at 07:47 AM.
If Galatea had the same ability as Teresa, she would've been able to dodge Dauf's attacks similar to how Clare dodged that first male awakened. Instead, she focuses her ability to manipulate the yoki of her opponents. It's still a great ability, and it would work with most opponents. Combining her ability with the number 10's ability would result in some pretty bad beatdowns, I think.
Considering how Clare did vs. Dauf, and the fact that Clare had strengthened quite a bit, I think we can see why Galatea had the number 3 rank. Not only was she strong, she had excellent control of her yoki, accodring to Riful, and her experience in combat was seen when she inferred that not all of Dauf was impervious to normal attacks...unlike Clare, who had consistently attacked the same spots.
While it didn't seem that she had the same ability as Teresa, we could see that when using her combat experience, yoki manipulation, and actual strength, she fought fairly well against an awakened former number 3. She's a defensive warrior, so she's not going to have an ability like Quicksword or Drill Sword, so treating her as if she wasn't worthy of the number 3 merely because her destructive capabilities weren't equal to Jean (who was described as having the most powerful strike; this probably excludes Alicia and Beth, though) is a little unfair, I think. If we had seen her lose to Ophelia or something, I could understand, but she was plenty strong.
After the time skip, we see her fighting with Miata (who is described as being able to reach Number 1 status) and Agatha, an awakened former Number 2, at the same time. I think that alone is a testament to Galatea's strength.
here's my take on Dauf battle in the Witches Maw chapters:
*Due to her ELYSA/PYS and Power Level, Clare was able to defend herself very well against Dauf's rods.
~ 0-49% YR:
she couldn't damage Dauf at all
~ 50-79% YR:
she couldn't even damage him with the Quick Sword.
she was able to pierce Dauf's hand (just missing Riful's fake head), had the strength to stop Dauf's shot rod and shove it back at him with enough power to knock him over, and her Quick Sword was powerful enough to stop/deflect/knock down his rods. She also was able to repair/heal her legs+feet and save Galatea from getting killed by Dauf's rod. Lastly, she learned to project her Quick Sword, but it still was unable to damage Dauf, and she (or was it Galatea) was able to pierce Dauf's hand with his own rod too.
*Galatea has great Swordsmanship and Power Level, however, without having the EYLSA/PYS like Clare, her defense against Dauf's rods, ultimately faultered (or she ran out of yoki, as possibly her unique Power Level Multiplier Yoki Ability (PLMYA) drains/saps up her yoki quickly) and we see her nearly dead with almost no yoki left and one of Dauf's rods impaled through her stomach, about to be killed, but Clare and Jean show up just in time.
*Galatea also had her Weak Yoki Manipulation Ability (WYMA) and it worked against Dauf, until Riful coached/educated Dauf about it, lol. If Riful hadn't, Galatea obviously would have done much better against Dauf. However, I'm a bit baffled by Galatea as to what her plan was, as she couldn't fatally damage/kill Dauf anyways... yet she just walked in so calmly into the Witches Maw to her own suicide... no plan of getting out... no plan against Dauf... no hope against Riful... her actions make no sense...
~ 0-9% YR:
she too was unable to damage Dauf, except his soft hand.
she is now able to slice his cheek and slice of his hand
*We don't know how much she is YR'ing. Also, I have a new theory with her PLMYA, that it causes to have a greater Power Level which causes her to have the effects also at a lower YR. For example, let's say that the Muscle Bulking Ability (MBA) usually requires near 80% YR, but at only let's say 30% YR, Galatea is experiencing it, as can be seen with her uber rippled-muscled body and her "ugly face".
Jean is clearly inferior to both Clare and Galatea, however, her Sword Technique, the Drill Sword, is the most powerful/devasting attack thus far seen, and can thus fatally damage Dauf, whereas Galatea and Clare could not.
Dauf is actually not that great. Both Clare and Galatea were able to handle him quite well. He is dangerous and powerful especially his rods attacks, don't get me wrong, but he's not as great as he seems. Clare+Galatea+Jean were actually about to kill Dauf in the Witches Maw chapters, well Jean was about to anyways, but Riful intervened of course. So, Dauf only lasted as long as he did, because of Riful and his hard body, as he should have been dead long ago back in the Witches Maw chapters.
Now Clare (and Cynthia+Yuma) does engage him one last time, however she had to fight him with her Yoki Suppressed and thus was also only using the Windcutter against Dauf as well, so of course she couldn't damage him like that. It's too bad that we never get to see Clare with her YR'ed and using the Quick Sword against him, to see if she was now powerful enough to damage/kill him. sighs.
Galatea vs Dauf was the best we've yet seen of Galatea's capability. Galatea was releasing the most yoki we've seen as of yet, when she was against Dauf.
Despite fighting rank 1 Claymore Miata and rank 2 Awakened Agatha at the same time, Galatea doesn't YR like she did against Dauf. Galatea was fighting at a lesser capability as she was against Dauf. Also, her Blindness, clearly doesn't effect her negatively at all, as she seems to move around and fight as if she's not blind at all, and can see everything fine, lol.
The only reason I can think of to explain this is Galatea's vanity. She'd rather die then to let the Humans, the Ghosts, and the Claymores (Miata and Clarice) see her "ugly face". As if you notice in her battle against Dauf, only Dauf and Riful were seeing her "ugly face", as she waited for Clare to leave and when Clare+Jean got back, Galatea had already returned to her "normal face". But, she doesn't have this luxury in Rabona.
Lastly, we see Galatea battling in the Rabona Assault Battle, and this is the worst performance we see of her, having trouble with two weak ABs, one of whom Yuma kills with a single sword throw, lol. This pathetic performance by Galatea makes no sense at all. The only reason I can explain this is, well again, Galatea's vanity, so she's not going to YR and show her "ugly face", and Yagi simply didn't want to highlight Galatea in this battle, lol. Otherwise, there's no explanation for Galatea's abysmal performance in this battle.
as to the topic of this thread:
Galatea is completely superior to HA Miria and would pwn HA Miria, unless Miria is too fast for Galatea to defend against. However, Miria can't PS (Phantom Step Ability) that much, so if Galatea can avoid/defend just enough, Miria will be out of her PSAs.
Ghost HA Miria is at least equal to Blind Galatea, and again it comes down to whether Galatea can defend against Miria's PSA or her new but slower "MSA" ("Mirage Step Ability").
Last edited by HegemonKhan; January 23, 2011 at 06:02 PM.