Bleach Tournament Discussion Thread

[El Samurai Guapo]

I agree with you for the most part. Although I do personally feel that a fight between Kisuke and Shinji could probably go either way. I believe that not even Kisuke could beat sakanade in close quarters combat;however, I think that Kisuke would still have a good chance in a fight against Shinji (Kisuke would try to avoid a direct CQC fight with Shinji though...). Likewise, I do think that shinji does have a good chance against Kisuke...since Shinji should definitely have the advantage in close combat and he likely has some advantage in power as well, particularly considering shikai + Mask. Although raw power isn't Kisuke's deadliest aspect. It's Kisuke's extremely high intellect, his very versatile shikai which provides both defense and offense, his inventions such as portable gigai, sealing kidou techniques that he developed himself, as well as his kidou mastery, in general, which he has actually displayed in the manga...that really make him a very dangerous individual. Then again, Shinji does have extremely powerful ceros too, which Kisuke must avoid at all cost because those would certainly hurt...to say the least. I could discuss Shinji's and Kisuke's abilities further, but I should probably just stop here.

I think both Shinji and Kisuke have abilities that could allow them to take the other out. And they're definitely among the most powerful/dangerous in this tournament.

Oh yeah, a fight between Kisuke and Shinji could definitely go either way. Kisuke is the one person in bleach who can never be underestimated. I only think I would favor Shinji somthing like 6.5/10 times against Kisuke. Mostly cause of hollowfication. If this was strictly a battle between Shinigami, I'd probably lean slightly toward Kisuke. The problem is, if we factor in the mask, not only does Kisuke have to worry about fighting with a huge handicap (whichever direction[s] Shinji chooses to have inverted), but he's also fighting a top-tier captain who just got a SSj-like boost in reiatsu, speed, power, and defense along with deadly ceros. Kisuke could try to avoid CQB, but good look escaping masked Shinji while your sense of direction is all screwed up. What Shinji told Aizen indicates that he's mastered using hollowfication too. We got no idea what kind of time limit he has, but it can't be less than 3 minutes (which is a pretty long time IMO). Of course, a well placed Shibari could completely turn things around...

In any case, the final match should definitely be between these two.

[thornofcarrion]

Here is a post made by one of our member in Claymore Tournament Discussion thread:

I've been following this tournament very closely but have failed to post yet. Don't ask why. I have no excuse. ><

Anyway, back to my main point; I've enjoyed reading and following all the fights and stages so far but ONE THING I believe is missing in this tournament is the lack of or the unforseen advantage of choosing more than one location for each fight/stage. The environment and scenery of each fight/battle will greatly effect and influence each character's capabilities. I think different locations (different terrains/conditions as well) would increase the overall entertainment and discussion of these tournaments.

If we are slowly going to see future tournaments being held for the Big 3 (I know Bleach is already in the works) then I would strongly urge the staff to consider implementing this idea. Off course, there will be some limitations and you guys won't be able to make said locations too detailed and have too many stipulatons and so forth but I think it would help make the big 3 tournaments A LOT MORE enjoyable. Discussions wouldn't simply be what power one character has, how to counter attack then come up with a basic fighting tactic and go in for the kill...eventuallly.

Character powers and personalities will be discussed, balanced and weighed up with the location/environment and how it can effect the end result...and eventual winner. ><

If it's not too late, I would love to see this being "tested" if you like in the Claymore tournament. I know I'm referring *mainly* to the possible future tournaments but I thought this would be the best place to post. ^^

Thanks for your suggestion Bugz. The problem is, certain conditions/terrains/locations may provide leverage to a contestant. As a result, the battle(s) will not be fair. I mean, a character getting leverage and other is not getting any, makes it a bit biased. Our intentions are to make the tournament, as fair as possible. We do have limit some characters but to make the tournament more open and competitive.

I will pass on your thoughts to others staff as well.

[Hystzen]

I don't think that's how it works. Shinji's first fight is the victor of the Kensei/Grimmjow fight—which should obviously be Kensei.

Then we have Kensei vs. Shinji, and while Kensei's bankai could be a threat, it has no feats yet. So judging by shikai Tachikaze, Shinji wins. His next opponent after that would be Nel, Harribel, or Kenpachi. All of which he would godstomp.

excuse me while i take out my eyes and put new ones in your correct.

still this could turn into a popularity contest.

yamma win just he yamma (people as read his name in battle threads now and say insta win for yamma no matter what)

Shunsui- he beat number 1 espada 1 on 1 in shikai ya know (he didnt but you know what it like arguing it wasent a 1 on 1 fight to shunsui fans)

Ichigo will be first out (people got in there head that kubo made him weaker as series went on and sucks with mask) no it a story law always stronger people out there. (by this logic people think goku in DBZ got weaker after going SS as the fights after people where faster and stronger then him)

Vizards suck according to this forum

hopefully im wrong and this doesnt go into a pop contest

[En Yang Ji]

I think we should wait to hear the opinions of other posters before voting. Does Ichigo have his mastered bankai, but just can't use final form? Do characters have any info on the opponents abilities

[thornofcarrion]

I think we should wait to hear the opinions of other posters before voting. Does Ichigo have his mastered bankai, but just can't use final form?

Other than capping some characters, we are not adding or subtracting anything. By mastering you mean, he has acquired maximum skill in that department. If so, then we are considering how his bankai is shown in the manga, nothing less and nothing more.

Do characters have any info on the opponents abilities

I think it would be better if all the battles occur without any contestant knowing his/her opponents' abilities.

[kamakazi_1996]

obviously ichigo wont have his final gestuga tensho form otherwise he would simply annihilate all of them

im still slightly confused though......... is ichigos new bankai included in this fight? or will it be his old crappy bankai?

if he has his new bankai included in this fight, i think he may be able to take on the likes of stark, ukitake, shunsui and even the captain commander

[thornofcarrion]

The problem with his bankai form that he used against Aizen was, it was quite dominating. Even without FGT, Aizen was pushed back with the bankai alone. In my humble opinion, the hollow mask (vesion 2) is a decent upgrade for Ichigo to win against opponents as you mentioned. One more thing guys, I have been part of the Claymore tournament as well. I noticed how fanbase effects the outcome. We never know who will win and who will lose.

[El Samurai Guapo]

One more thing guys, I have been part of the Claymore tournament as well. I noticed how fanbase effects the outcome. We never know who will win and who will lose.

Of course fanbase affects the outcome. Expect the likes of Byakuya, Shunsui, Kenpachi, and Isshin to be the finalists. At least there's one popular character (Urahara Kisuke) that's actually worthy of his hype. Less popular characters like the vaizards, any arrancar, Tessai, even certain captains like Mayuri, Soi Fon, or Sajin are out early.

[Hystzen]

Of course fanbase affects the outcome. Expect the likes of Byakuya, Shunsui, Kenpachi, and Isshin to be the finalists. At least there's one popular character (Urahara Kisuke) that's actually worthy of his hype. Less popular characters like the vaizards, any arrancar, Tessai, even certain captains like Mayuri, Soi Fon, or Sajin are out early.

look at flow of chart...sajin would lose his next round with isshin (WHY IS ISSHIN ON THE LIST!!)

final is yamma + Aizen..Aizen is bottom half winner , yamma top..this is just fan logic of course.

[Jackk]

Other than capping some characters, we are not adding or subtracting anything. By mastering you mean, he has acquired maximum skill in that department. If so, then we are considering how his bankai is shown in the manga, nothing less and nothing more.

I'm not Kio, but... I think he meant post Dangai training Bankai Ichigo. Although I believe that that was more Ichigo using both his mastered Tensa zangetsu's power (bankai) + inner hollow's powers combined. Considering that tensa zangetsu and his inner hollow had fused together and ichigo had to fight that during his dangai training. Further, Aizen in his 3rd evolved form couldn't even feel Ichigo's reiatsu etc.... so it couldn't have been Ichigo simply using his shinigami powers alone, he was using all his powers. Final getsuga tenshou turned him into getsuga allowing him to basically become one with all those powers, making him even more powerful at the cost of his powers etc.

Anyway, it's a shame because I think that if we don't include post dangai training Ichigo, then people are going to say that Ichigo is weak (since most people here seem to think that vaizard Ichigo is weaker than soul society arc Ichigo....), but if we include post dangai training Ichigo, then who's going to beat him? He was extremely powerful. I suppose it would have to be Ichigo with his second mask, like you said in your previous post.

Also, I do have a question.... Is Ishida allowed to use his Final quincy form in this tournament?

I think it would be better if all the battles occur without any contestant knowing his/her opponents' abilities.

I agree with you here. I think it would be fair this way. I mean, some of these fighters are already pretty good at analyzing their opponent's abilities in the middle of the fight. Giving prior knowledge about their opponent's abilities to certain fighters, would definitely not be fair. And this is coming from the guy who has Kisuke's hat as his profile picture.

[igotthegoods]

still this could turn into a popularity contest.

yamma win just he yamma (people as read his name in battle threads now and say insta win for yamma no matter what)

You're right. It absolutely could turn into a popularity contest. And then again, people may vote against a strong/popular character (like Yama, for example) just because they don't want to see them win. In the end, people will vote for whoever they want based on whatever they want. There is no way to control it. We just have to hope that everyone will vote for the character that they feel would actually win.

The staff actually debated quite a bit about including/excluding certain controversial characters, but ultimately decided that if we felt they had shown enough in the manga that they could spur an interesting battle discussion, they could be included. The real purpose of the tournament is to create and foster fun and entertaining discussions, after all.... even if little bit of competition keeps things interesting too. Also, if you notice, we tried to avoid pitting characters against each other in the early rounds who have already faced off in El Campo in order to keep things as fresh as possible by avoiding redundancy.

Also, I do have a question.... Is Ishida allowed to use his Final quincy form in this tournament?

Yes, it would be allowed.

Oh, and I'm not sure if this has already been stated, but all characters should be assumed to be trying as hard as they can to win each fight. Personal relationships will not come in to play. Even two allies who you would not expect to ever see fight in the manga would hold nothing back.

[Mauricio Raphael]

This seems to be a good idea. I can't wait to participate!

Here are some matches that caught my eyes:
Barragan vs. Tessai - might be a more epic version of Hachi vs. Barragan
Nel vs. Harribel - current Espada #3 vs. former Espada #3, yay!
Starrk vs. Mayuri

[maraxusofk]

How do characters without their full powers revealed fare?

[thornofcarrion]

How do characters without their full powers revealed fare?

Like I said we only put limiters on Ichigo and Aizen. If we don't, the two of them are so dominating that either of them would win the tournament. We tried to make this tournament as much open as possible.

[El Samurai Guapo]

So when does this start?