Gotei 13 Timeskip Changes

[Revolation]

IMO there are a couple VCs that could be approaching low captain level:

- Yachiru was able to casually speed blitz the, Ichigo who just OHKO'd Renji when serious. Ichigo in all likelihood was low captain level at that point. Also from what was shown Yachiru it appears she has a large amount of reiastu.

- Nemu is a custom made shinigami, depending on Mayuri's talent and wishes she could be incredibly strong for a VC. If Mayuri wished it she could have a body as durable as his, with powerful unusual abilities just like him. How haxx her zanpakatou is, how much reiastu she has, her speed, strength, even her innate talent as a shinigami are dependent on Mayuri.

- Hisagi is possibily low captain level. He was able to fight Findor, Allon, than manage to fight a hollowified Tousen enduring injuries from each fight. IMO this indicates he has a good deal of reiastu, the other VCs were almost killed after being hit by Allon. Hisagi also was skilled enough to dodge a blitz from a hollowified Tousen. Renji showed that VCs are able to deal good damage to captain level opponents when he used a level 30 kido on Syazel (albeit with full incantation, at close range). Renji is unskilled at kido and used a level 30 kido, imagine if a VC adept at kido used a higher level kido or if Renji used his bankai against Syazel. Bankai increases the combat ability of a shinigami 5-10x. Even though Renji noticed there was a large difference between Syazel while he was in his shikai state he said nothing of his bankai state. Hisagi seems more skilled overall than Renji, depending on what his bankai is he could be low captain level.

This. It's about time somebody besides me realize Nemu is most likely the strongest VC along with Yachiru. I mean look at what Urahara did with Ururu who is in a normal human-like body. Able to completely own a unreleased arrancar. Now just wonder what Mayuri has done with Nemu, a shinigami. It seems like he'd be the type to constantly be making modifications to her, while urahara seems content with Ururu as she is.
Both Nemu, and Yachiru are always sidelined by their captains so we'll see how strong they are when the time comes. As I've said before, Mayuri wouldn't create junk. Whether he wants to admit it or now, Nemu is his "magnum opus".

Though neither of these two will ever become captains. Only way for that to happen if if either of those captains die and way in the future for yachiru's case since she has the maturity level of a........yachiru. lol.

I already discussed the other VCs in the first post after the opening post so that's all i have for now.

[BulaNe]

Personally, I think the new captains will be mostly taken from the (pre time-skip) VCs like Hisagi (9), Renji (5) or even Rangiku (3) (mostly because of this page). It's like no proof at all, but Kubo tends to give us a small hints now and then. Some people have compared 1st with currently last chapter, so why don't give Renji a promotion since Rukia got one.

I'd actually welcome a new characters rather than promoting the old ones. Kubo can give the VCs some (in Bleach universe) ridiculous powerup, but it doesn't make much sense for SS/ 46-ppl-thingy to wait another year or two until they achieve a captain level. But well, it's Kubo we are talking about (not meant to ridicule his work in any way - I love Bleach, but we can expect nearly anything).

Since it was somewhere stated (probably Masked databook) he was originally a canon character, I'd love to see more of Ashido (Menos Forrest from Anime) - he was a captain material imo and I liked that character as a whole, but I really can't see it coming.

I don't think any of the Visoreds will return. They stated how much they detest shinigamis and don't care about SS a on a few occasions and their only motive was revenge on Aizen.

But well, there always can be some 3rd seat that just didn't stand out, but was powerful enough to become a new captain (apart from Ikkaku who will never become one simply because he doesn't want to). Kisuke was that way too.

[MyuuMyuu]

Personally, I think the new captains will be mostly taken from the (pre time-skip) VCs like Hisagi (9), Renji (5) or even Rangiku (3) (mostly because of this page). It's like no proof at all, but Kubo tends to give us a small hints now and then.

You're right, that could possible be a hint. however i don't hope Rangiku becomes captain..she is so hilarious as Hitsugaya's vice-captain, it would be sad to split them up..

[kkck]

i can't imagine rangiku being promoted to a captain seat. She is not significantly different from renji or hisagi either, she also should not have nearly enough time to get actual captain level power, let alone a bankai she did not even have before the timeskip. If any of the known VCs get promoted they would never match up to the other captains. What would be the point of having captains who do not even begin to approach basic captain level power?

[Ero-Sanji]

i can't imagine rangiku being promoted to a captain seat. She is not significantly different from renji or hisagi either, she also should not have nearly enough time to get actual captain level power, let alone a bankai she did not even have before the timeskip. If any of the known VCs get promoted they would never match up to the other captains. What would be the point of having captains who do not even begin to approach basic captain level power?

To be realistic though, there's no such thing as being on "a basic captain level". I mean just look at the difference between the captains... There are some criteria you have to fulfil and both Renji and Ikkaku are able to do that. Remember, you often have to start at low point to reach the top, not everyone are prodigies, who are at the top as Hitsugaya, Urahara and Zaraki. I'm sure there are a lot of captains through out the history that started out kind of like Renji and Ikakku could be doing. There's also the fact that Ikakku got his through pure training and not the Urahara way. However, both of them want to succeed their captains so I find it highly unlikely for either of them to actually become captains for another squad.

The only ones I could see being promoted are Hisagi and Kira. Revealing a new Bankai isn't strange at all seeing how Ikakku did it and power wise I can't see a problem with it, as well. They are new and will grow into their posts, just as most new bosses eventually does. It will also bring forth a natural sense of order and not a necessity prodigies.

[CitrusHour]

I think probably Hisagi, Ise or Kotetsu have the highest chances of being promoted. Two of them we have absolutely no idea of their power levels.

˙Heck, Kotetsu is obviously brilliant at Kido! Stringing together so many spells like that.

˙Ise, we haven't seen her fight yet. She has the manner of a captain at least (still unlikely though.)

˙Hisagi was already taking the responsibilities of his captain under tow and he certainly had the character of a captain. Bankai? He's terrified of his zanpakto. He might HAVE a bankai but might also be too afraid to use it. Time skip may have healed that fear.

˙Renji just doesn't have the 'character' of a captain.
˙Nemu is strong but is pretty much Mayuri's servant. Think he would let her even take the test?
˙Rangiku lacks the power and probably the aspiration to be a captain.
˙Hinamori... actually a mild chance. She is incredibly skilled in Kido, can do fair damage and would make an interesting story tool later on. (Imagine her breaking Aizen out of prison.)
˙Kira most certainly does not have the steel to be a captain.
˙Yachiru. Would she want to not work under Ken-chan anymore? Same with Ikkaku. He would be swamped with 'work.'
˙Yama's VC was pretty much confirmed to be eternally useless by Kubo.
˙Omaeda... Let's not go there.

And no one loves Iba.

[kkck]

To be realistic though, there's no such thing as being on "a basic captain level". I mean just look at the difference between the captains... There are some criteria you have to fulfil and both Renji and Ikkaku are able to do that. Remember, you often have to start at low point to reach the top, not everyone are prodigies, who are at the top as Hitsugaya, Urahara and Zaraki. I'm sure there are a lot of captains through out the history that started out kind of like Renji and Ikakku could be doing. There's also the fact that Ikakku got his through pure training and not the Urahara way. However, both of them want to succeed their captains so I find it highly unlikely for either of them to actually become captains for another squad.

The only ones I could see being promoted are Hisagi and Kira. Revealing a new Bankai isn't strange at all seeing how Ikakku did it and power wise I can't see a problem with it, as well. They are new and will grow into their posts, just as most new bosses eventually does. It will also bring forth a natural sense of order and not a necessity prodigies.

Ok, lets ignore people like hisagi, who merely get seated officer positions upon graduating the shinigami academy, or renji or kira who were in a more advanced class than rukia even though rukia was not precisely untalented. Lets take a look at gin, who not only finished the shinigami academy in 1 year but also got a seated position right off the bat, killed the third seated officer from his division and was aizen's right hand from the start.

We know for a fact that at that point aizen was well above the captain level, at least it seems like he already had the strength he had recently. His choices for VC at the time would be obvious, either tousen who blindly followed his orders or gin, the kid whom he actually thought of as his VC from the start (even though he knew gin wanted to kill him).

Then we have this bit 60 years later:
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/bleach/v15/c130.5/30.html

Seriously? Gin made fodder of a third seat back then, so I would think it is reasonable to assume he was at least vaguely close to actual VC level by then. Even then, we see him 60 years later as a mere VC.... Hard to tell how strong he actually was then and also back in the day but I doubt he would have remained a VC for 60 years if merely 2 years were enough to climb from VC to captain level power.

Now, lets some instances of numeros/fraccion/vc class people fighting captain class people. Lets start with a funny one.
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/bleach/v24/c210/17.html
Shaolong was a numeros and grimmjows fraccion which implies his actual caliber was around that of a VC. EVen then, we see a half dead hitsugaya who was about to pass out from the sheer severity of his wounds and still gives the fodder treatment to shaolong.

Next one:
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/bleach/v27/c235/20.html
Grimmjow took the full blast of someone who had already displayed enough power to be a VC and what was the result? Even though grimmjow was already wounded he was not even remotely phased by the attack, he got a hold of rukia without her even having a chance to defend herself and almost had her head blown off.

This one is awesome:
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/bleach/v44/c378/3.html

Yami fought rukia, a perfectly good character with enough skill to be a VC, renji, who was arguably the strongest of the VCS thanks to bankai, and chad, who took out a former espada and in a worst case scenario is renji's equal. What was the result? The 3 of them got the fodder treatment at best, yami was not even phased. What happened later on?
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/bleach/v44/c382/9.html
Kenpachi ended up having a moderately difficult time even with his eyepatch on. Heck, kenpachi seemed kinda bored... I guess we could make a similar point out of nnoitora defeating chad.


This one is fun too:
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/bleach/v39/c333/8.html
Soifon played around with the guy but when she was mildly serious the guy could not even remotely respond to her movements. Heck, soifon actually looks bored.

Every instance of someone like a numeros/fraccion/vicecaptain fighting someone who is of captain level has been that of unilateral extermination. Not a single time there has been someone of VC tier who can give a espada/captain a run for their money. Its not just a large difference, it is abysmal. I agree in that people don't have to start at the top to be captains but it honestly seems like the current VCs aren't even in the same mountain so to speak. They can't even put up a fight for the most part.

[Ero-Sanji]

@Kkck

I'm sorry but I didn't get the Gin part, what did it have to do with anything?

Anyway, the rest I understood but I still don't agree.

Let me tell you why:
Age is a huge factor in Bleach! Don't forget that. Renji, Hisagi, Kira, Hinamori, Rangetsu, and the rest are far more younger than their captains and their captains have had far more time to train to even compare with. Yes, there are exceptions, Gin and Hitsugaya and obviously Ichigo but apart from them there is a fine line of generational differences. Even amongst the Captains there are huge gaps between the generations.

Just look at Yamamoto, but that's too obvious. Look at Shunsui, he defeats espada #1 with nothing but his Shikai. Byakuya and Zaraki has to give everything they've got even techniques they detest and normally wouldn't do just to defeat #5 and #7. That's a crazy proof of the gap between generations. On top of that the same guy that Shunsui took out, defeated two former captains, with shikai and hollow masks. See, what I'm trying to point out?

If and thus when, lets say Hisagi becomes captain, he will be a lot weaker but that will change with time. In between 50 and a 100 years he will be at a higher level than the current Byakuya.


The generations could (very) roughly be shown like this:

1. Yamamoto
2. Shunsui, Ukitake (and perhaps Unohana)
3. Yoruichi, Urahara, Visored captains
4. Byakuya, Soifon, Tousen and Komamura (Zaraki)
5. Almost every current vice captain

Then there's always the so called "geniuses", like Aizen, Hitsugaya and so on and so forth. Also remember what Shunsui said, in about a hundred years that's when Hitsugaya will surpass him. So, no I still can't find it any wrong for any of them, if they have achieved Bankai to get promoted to Captain status.

Let us also not forget that the Arrancar are not regular enemies and Aizen's creatures have defeated promising characters before like Kaien who got defeated by metastacia. Not saying that your oppinion is wrong, but in my opinion, I feel it's only natural.

[kkck]

I agree with the age difference (I even said I wouldn't be surprised if they do at some point become captains) but the fact is that the difference in power is right there now. 2 years is not even remotely enough for them to get that kind of power. If we go by age, hisagi, renji and kira are still at least 40 years away from captain level power.

My point about gin was along the lines of that. He had strong powers from the get go and it still took another 80 years for him to become a captain.

[Ero-Sanji]

I agree with the age difference (I even said I wouldn't be surprised if they do at some point become captains) but the fact is that the difference in power is right there now. 2 years is not even remotely enough for them to get that kind of power. If we go by age, hisagi, renji and kira are still at least 40 years away from captain level power.

My point about gin was along the lines of that. He had strong powers from the get go and it still took another 80 years for him to become a captain.

But that's just it, what power?
The current captains has been captains for a very long time, we don't have a clue on how strong they were when they became captains. I mean, Zaraki has been a captain for over a hundred years, that's a really long time to get stronger. Give Hisagi or whomever that amount of time and they'll get there too, I'm sure they can do it within fifty, as well. I'm not saying that should one of them become a captain that they are supposed to be as strong as the current ones, because even among the current ones there's a huge difference. (Another example is Soifon who loses to Yoruichi who doesn't even use a zanpakto.)

Remember when Renji approached Ikkaku and personally recommended that he should replace Aizen's seat? Right there is further proof that strength isn't everything and that Bankai alone is pretty much all that is required. When it comes to Gin, we do know that he spent a lot of years just like Renji and Ikkaku studying his captain and that could like wise have been the reason to why it took the time it did.

In the end it's just a matter of opinion I guess, but either way should one of the stronger lieutenants get a promotion through the criteria of having Bankai, at least I will accept it.

[zimbardo]

I personally can't see any of the current VC's taking a captain's role quite yet.
I also can't see any of the visards taking up a captain role either. Firstly soul society has never been all that big on forgiving people (or admitting that they may have been wrong), and secondly I think the visards hold too big a grudge to go back to working for soul society.
The only option left (though I think it is unlikely) is a member of the royal guard stepping back into a captains position till someone better can be found. Now there is only one member of the guard that I could see Kubo possibly reintroducing. And this would be a good time as any to re-introduce her.
That said, I am more interested in seeing whose VC position Rukia took up. Could it possibly be Ukitake's?

--- edit ---
Aha, seems someone has pointed out that it is Ukitake's division! Finally he has found someone to replace Shiba

[g0dzax]

I agree with what you said,but still remember in that Turn Back The Pendulum arc,Urahara was a 3rd member of Yoruichi's division and he got promoted to a captain.This would be a plausible way to introduce new captains.

[zimbardo]

I agree with what you said,but still remember in that Turn Back The Pendulum arc,Urahara was a 3rd member of Yoruichi's division and he got promoted to a captain.This would be a plausible way to introduce new captains.

True, but can you think of any 3rd seats that could be promoted? Iemura? Enjōji? Kotetsu? Kotsubaki?
The only 3rd seat who I could even vaguely consider, Ikkaku, is a no go for many reasons.
1/ He doesn't want to.
2/ Although he has bankai, he rarely uses it - and is leagues off everyone else with a bankai (except maybe renji).
3/ He is not someone who I would consider 'leadership' material.
I'd consider most of the vice captains over Ikkaku : /

[g0dzax]

Yeah,you have a point there.But if no VCs can take the captain seats,no 3rd positions,no Visoreds,Royal Guards seem very unlikely,then how the heck will Kubo introduce new captains?

[Ero-Sanji]

Yeah,you have a point there.But if no VCs can take the captain seats,no 3rd positions,no Visoreds,Royal Guards seem very unlikely,then how the heck will Kubo introduce new captains?

I can only think of two options. Either he skips it or he chooses one of the VCs. If it weren't for Rukia's sudden promotion I don't think this would have been such a hot topic, to be honest, so the vacant seats might as well be vacant. Although as I've stated before it's still pretty open for some of them to get a promotion especially Hisagi, who has the "so called" leadership mentality but also Rangiku's little notice of how he was currently training. 2 years might not seem as a long time, for a shinigami but given the right circumstances, I think it's possible for some of them to get stronger, just look at Hitsugaya who got severely beat by the first Arrancar invasion leader, month's later we saw him toe to toe with a high ranking espada.