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Thread: Vinland Saga 65 Chapter Discussion

  1. #16
    SQUEE x 9000 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Kaiten's Avatar
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    Re: Vinland Saga 65 Chapter Discussion

    I hope so. I'd love for the action to switch back to England for a little while. I'd like to see what Canute is up to. There's bound to be some action when the focus shifts back there.

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    Pink Warrior 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member baboysai's Avatar
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    Re: Vinland Saga 65 Chapter Discussion

    wow that was a great chapter! like you guys said, much character development for Throfinn, shown in one chapter (oh i love the story telling )

    not necessarily that Thorfinn would be a guard someday (which I think is kind of not much of a step up for him).. I was thinking that the chapter showed that he learned more about the political state of things, showed interest in balance, different levels of social classes, which would make him overall a good leader in the future.

    Before he would just fight, but now that he's slowly being aware of the bigger picture, that's very good training.

    Since the farm is "protected" or belongs to the domain of King Harald, what do you think will be the conflict with Canute in the future?

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    Re: Vinland Saga 65 Chapter Discussion

    i think canute will conquer england and then will go to Denmark to get his brother and his forces will come by the farm with thorkell, and thorkell sees thorfinn and he gives him his dagger from his dad back

  4. #19
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Ratatosk's Avatar
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    Re: Vinland Saga 65 Chapter Discussion

    yeah, I don't give Canute's brother long to live.. so Thorfinn will be a guard whether he likes it or not soon.

    Wonder what work they get the slaves to do in winter?
    Love how Snake only guards the farm when it's not raining and is that a bible he keeps falling asleep reading? hehe.

  5. #20
    SQUEE x 9000 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Kaiten's Avatar
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    Re: Vinland Saga 65 Chapter Discussion

    I don't know how the story will play out in the manga but Canute does not kill Harold, Harold dies of natural causes after a very short reign. Canute will conquer England, inherit Denmark, then build an empire along the North Sea.

  6. #21
    SQUEE x 9000 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Kaiten's Avatar
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    Re: Vinland Saga 65 Chapter Discussion

    Moved the last post to the real vinland saga thread and responded.


    Quote Originally Posted by baboysai View Post
    wow that was a great chapter! like you guys said, much character development for Throfinn, shown in one chapter (oh i love the story telling )

    not necessarily that Thorfinn would be a guard someday (which I think is kind of not much of a step up for him).. I was thinking that the chapter showed that he learned more about the political state of things, showed interest in balance, different levels of social classes, which would make him overall a good leader in the future.

    Before he would just fight, but now that he's slowly being aware of the bigger picture, that's very good training.

    Since the farm is "protected" or belongs to the domain of King Harald, what do you think will be the conflict with Canute in the future?
    I think if he were to become a guard it would be a step down from Viking but better than being a slave. I'm really curious how he regains his freedom, it's the only theory I can think of so far.

    His time on the farm is definitely giving him a larger world view. I guess it was usually the opposite in the middle ages; farmers who couldn't think of a bigger world. But Thorofinn is getting a lesson in domesticity, farming, local politics, and things that don't involve boats or swords.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ratatosk View Post
    yeah, I don't give Canute's brother long to live.. so Thorfinn will be a guard whether he likes it or not soon.

    Wonder what work they get the slaves to do in winter?
    Love how Snake only guards the farm when it's not raining and is that a bible he keeps falling asleep reading? hehe.
    I love Snake. He may seem lazy, he had his chance to show off last time he appeared
    Last edited by Kaiten; July 29, 2010 at 05:14 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  7. #22
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner ChronicSavior's Avatar
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    Re: Vinland Saga 65 Chapter Discussion

    Regardless of the offered excuses, is anyone else a little annoyed at the fact that after all this time we get handed a chapter centering around farm equipment? This farm arc in itself is becoming a big bore.


    Quote Originally Posted by baboysai View Post
    wow that was a great chapter! like you guys said, much character development for Throfinn, shown in one chapter (oh i love the story telling )

    not necessarily that Thorfinn would be a guard someday (which I think is kind of not much of a step up for him).. I was thinking that the chapter showed that he learned more about the political state of things, showed interest in balance, different levels of social classes, which would make him overall a good leader in the future.

    Before he would just fight, but now that he's slowly being aware of the bigger picture, that's very good training.

    Since the farm is "protected" or belongs to the domain of King Harald, what do you think will be the conflict with Canute in the future?
    Character development my ass. There are far more interesting ways to "develop" a character while at the same time not put them to sleep.
    Last edited by ChronicSavior; July 30, 2010 at 06:40 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  8. #23
    MH Senpai 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Drmke's Avatar
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    Re: Vinland Saga 65 Chapter Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by ChronicSavior View Post
    Character development my ass. There are far more interesting ways to "develop" a character while at the same time not put them to sleep.
    Different mangaka go different routes with character development. Yukimura is going what I call the "Vagabond route". He is not focusing on making his character a super-strong badass who can kill everyone, but instead going a more realistic route where the character learns of his own weakness and short-comings and becomes a stronger person. He is also learning more about the world he lives in. The point of the farm equipment was him learning even peasants can invent something truly amazing (especially for that time) and essentially "change the world" in a sense. All this is important if we can ever hope to see him grow up to be like his dad.


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    Pink Warrior 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member baboysai's Avatar
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    Re: Vinland Saga 65 Chapter Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by ChronicSavior View Post
    Regardless of the offered excuses, is anyone else a little annoyed at the fact that after all this time we get handed a chapter centering around farm equipment? This farm arc in itself is becoming a big bore.


    Character development my ass. There are far more interesting ways to "develop" a character while at the same time not put them to sleep.
    Well aside from "different routes", I thought I liked the subtlety in story telling.

    I'd been rereading Vinland Saga lately, and maybe your reaction is understandable because comparing this chapter (this arc, to be more general) with the rest of the earlier volumes it is very "quiet" and peaceful.

    The intensity of the first few volumes were what probably characterized the manga as a whole, being a violent, war-ridden place. But this arc does not go out of the trend because right from the start, we were shown Thors and Thorfinn's life in peace. Thors escaping the battlefield to become a "True Warrior", which he defined as one who wields no weapon.

    It is hard to let Thorfinn develop as a character, reaching and understanding his father's level, if he were to stay in the battlefield all the time. He practically grew up in the battlefield, forgetting what peace means, and for what other purposes should man exist but be in battle.

    Because he has been so suddenly uprooted from the battlefield, and without any other skills forced into farming, he becomes sensitive to other aspects of life which will ultimately make him understand what his father was "fighting" for.

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  11. #25
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner ChronicSavior's Avatar
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    Re: Vinland Saga 65 Chapter Discussion

    I'm obviously, or at least I thought I made it clear enough, not against character develop. If the author had bothered to do this kind of thing chapters, if not volumes, ago, it wouldn't seem so awkward, forced, or just simply out of place as it does. Aside from this so called develop, nothing else is happening, the story as a whole is at a deafening stand still. I enjoyed the "story telling" as much as I could without being too pissed off to appreciate that Vinland Saga is back! But as far as I'm considered, that's about the only thing worth mentioning with the released of this chapter. I don't mean to offend any of the hardcore fans, but "meh". It is what it is, at least for me anyhow...


    Quote Originally Posted by Drmke View Post
    Different mangaka go different routes with character development. Yukimura is going what I call the "Vagabond route". He is not focusing on making his character a super-strong badass who can kill everyone, but instead going a more realistic route where the character learns of his own weakness and short-comings and becomes a stronger person. He is also learning more about the world he lives in. The point of the farm equipment was him learning even peasants can invent something truly amazing (especially for that time) and essentially "change the world" in a sense. All this is important if we can ever hope to see him grow up to be like his dad.
    I can believe that. But why didn't he make this realization more subtle? Why didn't he span all this inner dialogue and sensitivity out into more earlier chapters? I mean, he's probably gonna do that now, span this all out I mean, but that's what I'm not looking forward to because he kinda missed the opportunity not to bore his audience.

    It's like we've suddenly hit this brick wall of something this manga has been lacking for volumes (sensitivity, realistic emotions, thoughtful realizations etc.), and Yukimura is trying to make up for it in a not so subtle way; by just throwing it all at us and hoping we get the message. But whatevaz, it's still interesting, if only barely...
    Last edited by ChronicSavior; August 01, 2010 at 02:53 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Wentwarth's Avatar
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    Re: Vinland Saga 65 Chapter Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by ChronicSavior View Post
    I can believe that. But why didn't he make this realization more subtle? Why didn't he span all this inner dialogue and sensitivity out into more earlier chapters?
    Because the life Thorfinn was leading up to now didn't allow for that. He literally had no one who would encourage him to learn more about the world and the fact that he was focused on just one goal since he was a child (as well as the flashbacks) should speak volumes about his upbringing amongst Askeladd's men. Thorfinn couldn't have gotten any of the realizations he's getting now when there wasn't any peace in his life, IMO.

  13. #27
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner ChronicSavior's Avatar
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    Re: Vinland Saga 65 Chapter Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Wentwarth View Post
    Because the life Thorfinn was leading up to now didn't allow for that. He literally had no one who would encourage him to learn more about the world and the fact that he was focused on just one goal since he was a child (as well as the flashbacks) should speak volumes about his upbringing amongst Askeladd's men. Thorfinn couldn't have gotten any of the realizations he's getting now when there wasn't any peace in his life, IMO.
    This is when the "subtle" aspect should have come into play. If Yukimura had eluded beforehand that something like this could/would happen, this stand still wouldn't seem so misplaced. But, truth be told, the mangaka probably hadn't invented it in his mind yet, lol. Ahhh, the wonders of writing blind.

  14. #28
    Pink Warrior 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member baboysai's Avatar
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    Re: Vinland Saga 65 Chapter Discussion

    But I disagree, ChronicSavior, that it had been misplaced.

    Was this peaceful arc really so misplaced when right at the very start of the manga we see a deserting warrior Thors living his life, learning new trades (forging and farming), running away from all sorts of battle except for one: be a good father and live a long life for his children?

    At this point, though I had also not expected this would recur any time soon in Thorfinn's life, there had always been signs everywhere that this story will lead to the dream of Vinland, the dream of living in peace.

    So this volume about Thorfinn, Canute's twisted sense of gaining peace for his people, and then of course followed by a final conflict, with a cast of matured characters all with a change in perspective, (let's not forget the one final VIOLENT crusade to show irony of "violence to gain peace"), is not so misplaced.

    I wouldn't call it that "Yukimura eluded us" into thinking this was a violent manga and then suddenly became gay. Reread the first few chapters to remind you this is not gantz.

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    SQUEE x 9000 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Kaiten's Avatar
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    Re: Vinland Saga 65 Chapter Discussion

    I forgot about Thors, somehow. This arc makes even more sense now. He needed to know the life his father lived, why his father left the battle field.

    I don't think there could have been any character development during England Saga. It seemed to me that his quest for revenge and living for battle stunted his growth. So long as he was on the battlefield growth as a human being would be impossible. We are only seeing the beginning in this chapter. Until this month he looked so lost and listless.

  16. #30
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner ChronicSavior's Avatar
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    Re: Vinland Saga 65 Chapter Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by baboysai View Post
    But I disagree, ChronicSavior, that it had been misplaced.
    Lol, I don't think Vinland Saga revolves around violence as Gantz does. When I say "stand still" and "misplaced" I'm referring to the overall plot, which, as far as I can remember was the war, and Thorfinn's contributes to it. Since Thorfinn was removed from the war effort, the actual plot has disappeared as well, and to fill up the gap Yukimura gives us unnecessary character development. Why is it unneccessary? Because Thorfinn is the main character of this story; his character development should be forever present throughout the entire story according to the choices and actions he makes as a person/protagonist. Not when the author has to fill up some random void he accidentally created.

    I don't really consider the flash back about Thorfinn's father relevant. That was character development for Thors, with a little bit of Thorfinn thrown into the mix, as far as I could tell. As to why Yukimura decided to spend time developing a dead character? Pssst, your guess is as good as mine.

    Themes, such as "peace" and "violence to gain peace" are all up to the readers' perspective; clearly ours' are completely different. I could go on and on picking this story's flaw apart, but I don't wanna anymore *humph* I suppose you've just sunk your teeth into Vinland Saga a lot deeper than I did. Enjoy your manga.

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