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Thread: Bakuman Vol 14 (ch116-ch124) Discussion

  1. #361
    in absentia 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity saladesu's Avatar
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    Re: Bakuman 124 Discussion / 125 Prediction

    Anyone notice that in page3, Kosugi's t-shirt has Whitebeard from One Piece on it?

    I find it a little hard to believe that Yuuigi na~ is falling SO rapidly. I guess k-dom is right that the speed of it is because of this 10 chapter cancellation deadline, but even so, it seems unrealistically fast.

    Nanamine seemed pretty intelligent at first, but now I think he's just desperate and grasping at any straws he can get. He's immature and all he wants to do is beat Ashirogi, be the "best" in Jump, regardless of his methods.

    I'm still confident that Nakai will play a bigger role to come. I was hoping he would play a bigger role in this current arc, but since its ending I guess I can give up on that... But I hope his comeback wasn't for naught... -.-

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  3. #362
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    Re: Bakuman 124 Spoiler Thread

    Was fun to see Nanaime freak out, i hope he will be gone whitin a few chapters:P
    Last edited by saladesu; March 12, 2011 at 08:22 AM.

  4. #363
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    Re: Bakuman 124 Discussion / 125 Prediction

    nakai ,with that suit, is so much like a mafia member
    Btw i hope nanamine's manga gets axed.

  5. #364
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    Re: Bakuman 124 Discussion / 125 Prediction

    I loved this chapter, hiramaru's scene was hilarious as usual. The page showing nakai making his way to Aoki's was just as funny though, his flab was impressive. I hope Nanamine has a trump card just to make it more interesting, there's no way the arc is over yet, obha has a nack for turning things on their head.

  6. #365
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member sir_arles's Avatar
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    Re: Bakuman 124 Discussion / 125 Prediction

    Great chapter.
    Damn, I hate nakai.




  7. #366
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Evil Mind's Avatar
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    Re: Bakuman 124 Discussion / 125 Prediction

    Hmm what to say about this chapter...

    To start with Nanamine's downfall. Sadly Nanamine is the bad guy for this arc and was forced to fail to teach the young boys and girls "There are no easy answers but hard work". Nanamine made a number of mistakes with his method and tactics. With his method, the idea sounds good on paper but proved unstable in practice mostly due to human nature and Nanamine's own failing. Keeping 50 people focused and united is a difficult task and requires real leadership which Nanamine I guess lacks. I think he should have at lest given those 50 people a way to feel connected and responsible for the project with credit and/or pay. By just using them for ideas as he had they were quick to turn no each other when thing got tough. In the end his method strikes me as simply brute forcing answers.

    He also lacked good judgment. We are at first lead to believe that Nanamine is a tactical genius but really he had an unstated amount of time to conceive the first two steps of his plan (leaking online and running strait to the EiC to overstep his Editor). Other then those two plots he hasn't show more genius really. Getting Nakai to draw for the second chapter on felt more like chance then planned. Also every choice we see Nanamine make is bad. He can't make the hard decisions of what good ideas to cut for what's best for the story, He fooled into competing with Ashirogi and makes the bad decision to compete with the same type of story (remember when Ashirogi tried to do mainstream battle to compete with Eiji?). His dislike of Editors was a really bad choice as with his method an Editor is really useful in help refine a story vs the cluttered mess we are told it is.

    So to sum up Nanamine's downfall was foreseeable, even in the span of 4-6 weeks I can accept but the manga pushed though it to fast for my liking.

    As for Nakai I think there will be a battle between him and Hiramaru for Aoki love in the next serialization meeting. I'm hoping to see him totally crushed and then raise from the ashes as a likable character again.

  8. #367
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member D.Blue's Avatar
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    Re: Bakuman 124 Discussion / 125 Prediction

    You know... I think there's a high possibility that somehow Kosugi will finally have a word on Nanamine's work (after he loses all of his supporters and have no one else to rely on, who knows?) and it gets a boost in quality, saving itself from being axed.

    I mean, what will happen to Kosugi after Nanamine's demise? What about Nakai? I agree with some of you fellow readers that Ohba has been wasting a lot of oppotunities in Bakuman (Death Note had the same problem, in my opinion - I think the author simply lacks the ability to focus on a single idea and spread it over a long string of chapters), but Kosugi simply CAN'T leave the stage without showing any sort of redeeming quality. Same for Nakai.

    If the worse happens, I will feel obliged to agree with Reclaimer's constant hatred towards the poor thing, and I don't really wanna do that.
    Have you ever tried to install Windows on your computer using a USB stick? ...It's painful.

  9. #368
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    Re: Bakuman 124 Discussion / 125 Prediction

    Pinkie promise. Those two are killing me XD

    No matter how I look at it - "manga with too many ideas going on at once" is the definition of the last 50 chapters of Death Note.

    I also think Nanamine had to fall so the story would have a moral ending. His idea isn't as stupid as he makes it look.
    Last edited by natli; March 12, 2011 at 04:20 PM.

  10. #369
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    Re: Bakuman 124 Discussion / 125 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by saladesu View Post
    I'm still confident that Nakai will play a bigger role to come. I was hoping he would play a bigger role in this current arc, but since its ending I guess I can give up on that... But I hope his comeback wasn't for naught... -.-
    Nakai's roll in this arc was BIG, and I don't see it slimming down in the future. =P (I know, bad pun. I'm going to hell)

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Mind View Post
    To start with Nanamine's downfall. Sadly Nanamine is the bad guy for this arc and was forced to fail to teach the young boys and girls "There are no easy answers but hard work". Nanamine made a number of mistakes with his method and tactics. With his method, the idea sounds good on paper but proved unstable in practice mostly due to human nature and Nanamine's own failing. Keeping 50 people focused and united is a difficult task and requires real leadership which Nanamine I guess lacks. I think he should have at lest given those 50 people a way to feel connected and responsible for the project with credit and/or pay. By just using them for ideas as he had they were quick to turn no each other when thing got tough. In the end his method strikes me as simply brute forcing answers.
    The problem with his method can be summed up on the internet discussion on page 13. You don't have your 50 person group write your series, you have your 50 person group give advice with no expectation that you will always take it. But, yeah, never let common sense and competent plotting get in the way of a didactic message.

    Quote Originally Posted by D.Blue View Post
    I mean, what will happen to Kosugi after Nanamine's demise? What about Nakai? I agree with some of you fellow readers that Ohba has been wasting a lot of oppotunities in Bakuman (Death Note had the same problem, in my opinion - I think the author simply lacks the ability to focus on a single idea and spread it over a long string of chapters),

    If the worse happens, I will feel obliged to agree with Reclaimer's constant hatred towards the poor thing, and I don't really wanna do that.
    You agree with me on the former, so why not agree with me on the latter? =3

    Quote Originally Posted by D.Blue View Post
    but Kosugi simply CAN'T leave the stage without showing any sort of redeeming quality. Same for Nakai.
    Nakai did it once before, and you'd think so about Kosugi, but I'm not sure Ohba realizes how much a douche he has made his character into. See Takagi in the previous act and his bullshit half-assed apology to Mashiro and nothing to Miyoshi. I'm still pissed about that.

  11. #370
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member suarhnir's Avatar
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    Re: Bakuman 124 Spoiler Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Reclaimer View Post
    I'll stop hammering on Kosugi the minute he grows a spine and stops saying stupid things.
    oyos

    you can't really expect a newbie like kosugi to really have much confidence right off the bat. you also need to realize that the editor in chief must have recognized kosugi's talent/skill to assign him to the 'new genius' nanamine (giving the rookie a big project; his first serialized manga). kosugi has the skill to be a good editor, but he's dealing with a kid who is incredibly stubborn and full of himself. kosugi has been trying to help (after some encouragement) but nanamine either disregards it or shuts him up before he even gets the chance to say anything. have you ever tried reasoning with a child/teenager who won't listen? it's not easy, however kosugi is slowly being more vocal against nanamine but at the same time nanamine is lashing out more as he is slipping.

    as for the apparent rushing of the series, it's not just in bakuman, its a good majority if not all shounen jump series. back in the day we complained of 'arcs/fights' taking forever but now we are complaining that it's too short. we live in a time that we can get things in a short amount of time, so we get more demanding for things to be faster (in the case of manga, a quicker resolution of arcs/fights).

  12. #371
    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Knifeshade's Avatar
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    Re: Bakuman 124 Discussion / 125 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by saladesu View Post
    I'm still confident that Nakai will play a bigger role to come. I was hoping he would play a bigger role in this current arc, but since its ending I guess I can give up on that... But I hope his comeback wasn't for naught... -.-
    I won't deny he's going to stay a while now that the author has brought him back. But he's a waste of ink, for me. He's going to have do something really amazing to stop me from cringing at his existence.

    From a certain angle, because Nakai was once part of Team Fukuda, he feels like second-tier character material after main characters like Ashirogi, Eiji, Azuki, and Miyoshi.

    But he's totally different to people like Fukuda/Hiramaru/Aoki, he has no dreams and no passion now. And no brain from what I'm lead to believe. Aoki gave him a chance to work together again and also to become a serialized mangaka. "Hurr durr you have to go out with me then derrp". He's only an assistant for Nanamine and decides going to Aoki to boast, as if he's a mangaka, would be an awesome thing? How conceited can he get. His character has deteriorated to the point of lower than trash ever since Hideout Door got cancelled. It better be something amazing if his character's getting a 180 development flip. =/
    Last edited by Knifeshade; March 13, 2011 at 02:23 AM.

  13. #372
    in absentia 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity saladesu's Avatar
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    Re: Bakuman 124 Discussion / 125 Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by suarhnir View Post
    oyos

    you can't really expect a newbie like kosugi to really have much confidence right off the bat. you also need to realize that the editor in chief must have recognized kosugi's talent/skill to assign him to the 'new genius' nanamine (giving the rookie a big project; his first serialized manga). kosugi has the skill to be a good editor, but he's dealing with a kid who is incredibly stubborn and full of himself. kosugi has been trying to help (after some encouragement) but nanamine either disregards it or shuts him up before he even gets the chance to say anything. have you ever tried reasoning with a child/teenager who won't listen? it's not easy, however kosugi is slowly being more vocal against nanamine but at the same time nanamine is lashing out more as he is slipping.
    I agree that part of the problem is that Kosugi is new and lacks experience + confidence. I don't hold that against him. I think he has proven on certain occasions that he's worth his salt (one of the first to realize something was off/strange about Nanamine's stuff before he knew what was going on), but on others he's also displayed a great lack of experience and confidence.

    Rookies are always given to new editors, that's the way Jump works. I don't think Kosugi was assigned to Nanamine because he was particularly good or anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by suarhnir View Post
    as for the apparent rushing of the series, it's not just in bakuman, its a good majority if not all shounen jump series. back in the day we complained of 'arcs/fights' taking forever but now we are complaining that it's too short. we live in a time that we can get things in a short amount of time, so we get more demanding for things to be faster (in the case of manga, a quicker resolution of arcs/fights).
    Pacing is a problem in a good number of manga, I agree. But that doesn't mean we have to like it Nevertheless, I wonder if there really has ever been a new manga that had rankings like 2>2>9>13>15 (iirc). Isn't the drop too great, too fast? If a series fell over a period of time and maybe hit 15 on its 10th chapter I could understand, but by its 5th chapter? That really seems way too fast by any standards!

    Quote Originally Posted by Reclaimer
    Nakai's roll in this arc was BIG, and I don't see it slimming down in the future. =P (I know, bad pun. I'm going to hell)
    Haha

    Well... I dunno, I personally don't see his role as that big. He did help with "Yuuigi na~" and was significant in keeping its rankings higher than it might have been otherwise (and making ch2 rank so high), but he didn't actually DO anything, not of his own accord (per se) anyway. It was Nanamine who recruited him and got him to work.

    (if your comment actually wasn't a serious one, just made for the sake of the pun, then well, ignore this )

    Quote Originally Posted by Knifeshade View Post
    I won't deny he's going to stay a while now that the author has brought him back. But he's a waste of ink, for me. He's going to have do something really amazing to stop me from cringing at his existence.
    Yeah I think he'll hang around, but the question is, will he be a minor character popping up every 20 chapters or mentioned in passing like Shizuka Ryuu, or will he actually have a role to play?

  14. #373
    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Knifeshade's Avatar
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    Re: Bakuman 124 Discussion / 125 Prediction

    I like to think because the pacing was so fast that there has to be a comeback of some sort. If Nanamine's series really did get cancelled before the 10 weeks is up then that really takes away some of the tension/build up from the earlier chapters.

    Either that or the author really wants to end this arc ASAP and start on the next....

  15. #374
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    Re: Bakuman 124 Discussion / 125 Prediction

    I think Nanamine's series will slowly become better because of his helpers leaving. Think about it the main problem everybody (Kosugi, Ashirogi Muto and Hattori) have pointed out is that there are too many ideas in his manga. With this many people leaving his chatroom won't it be less cluttered and a means for him too slowly clean up his manga. This might be what will rescue him from getting axed and get him back his cockiness and manipulative side. At that exact moment when he's at his best and his most arrogant that's when I want Ashirogi Muto to just crush him with superior skill and experience. When that's happened Ashirogi will notice that by using some form of skill or something they will be able to make PCP more interesting or get an idea for a new series.

    I really like his style as a 'villain' and hope he stays for a while cause there's a lot of interesting stories to write about him. Knowing the style of this manga he will probably get busted by the editorial staff.

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    Re: Bakuman 124 Spoiler Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by suarhnir View Post
    kosugi has the skill to be a good editor, but he's dealing with a kid who is incredibly stubborn and full of himself. kosugi has been trying to help (after some encouragement) but nanamine either disregards it or shuts him up before he even gets the chance to say anything. have you ever tried reasoning with a child/teenager who won't listen? it's not easy, however kosugi is slowly being more vocal against nanamine but at the same time nanamine is lashing out more as he is slipping.
    Is telling a child/teenager to do as I say an effective means of getting to do something? Kosugi said the equivalent when he told Nanamine to let him have the final say in decisions. (That statement forever precludes him from being a good editor. Anyone who could EVER think to say that cannot by definition by a good editor because that isn't even slightly what an editor does)

    Quote Originally Posted by suarhnir View Post
    oyos
    as for the apparent rushing of the series, it's not just in bakuman, its a good majority if not all shounen jump series. back in the day we complained of 'arcs/fights' taking forever but now we are complaining that it's too short.
    My reading of jump has dwindled to almost nothing recently, but I don't think this is true unless your definition of back in the day is a lot different than mine. I haven't mathematically compared the lengths of arcs in long running series like One Piece or Hajime no Ippo, but they don't feel shorter, and they don't feel too short.

    Quote Originally Posted by saladesu View Post
    (if your comment actually wasn't a serious one, just made for the sake of the pun, then well, ignore this )
    Solely for the pun.

    Quote Originally Posted by saladesu View Post
    Yeah I think he'll hang around, but the question is, will he be a minor character popping up every 20 chapters or mentioned in passing like Shizuka Ryuu, or will he actually have a role to play?
    Every 20 chapters would be pretty good for this series.

    Quote Originally Posted by Knifeshade View Post
    From a certain angle, because Nakai was once part of Team Fukuda, he feels like second-tier character material after main characters like Ashirogi, Eiji, Azuki, and Miyoshi.
    Main characters have to get face time. How much face time have the latter 3 characters gotten recently? Even if the series is suffering from character bloat and they are not particularly related to the arc, main characters get face time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Knifeshade View Post
    I like to think because the pacing was so fast that there has to be a comeback of some sort. If Nanamine's series really did get cancelled before the 10 weeks is up then that really takes away some of the tension/build up from the earlier chapters.
    I refer you to the previous arc. Ohba has been failing on that a lot recently, so there is no reason to expect it to change. (By recently, I'd say at least since halfway through Death Note, but you can confine that to recent in Bakuman if you prefer)

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