Madaras Lies About Itachi

[xallisto]

it annoys me how many people seem 2 take Madara at his work, just reading a wiki entry on Itachi stating that he spared his brother life because he was more important to Itachi than the village, i dont belive this at all it makes no sense.

why wipe out your own clan children included but spare Sasuke.

i think that the only reason he didint was not beacuse of love or anything of the sort but beacuse Sasuke was not guilty and also to test Sasuke.

Think about it why did Itachi tell Sasuke about the mangekyou sharingan and how to obtain it. why did he tell him not to come before him untill he obtained the same eyes?

Surely if Sasuke killed his best friend (still not convinced that this is the real way 2 obtain it) and gained the mangekyou sharingan then i belive when they met Itachi would have killed Sasuke without hesitation because sasuke would have followed the path of the clan before him (blindly chasing power because he belived it was rightfully his).

The simple fact is that Itachi killed the Uchiha because they were hungry for power and were willing to plunge the village into civil war to get it.

Madara only told Sasuke that it was because he loved him more than the village in order 2 manipulate him better, the truth is that you dont massacre your whole clan without having the resolve 2 kill them all if neccesarry, the ONLY reason Sasuke was spared was in hope 2 give the clan redemption if Sasuke failed and "came before him with the same eyes as him" he would have killed Sasuke.

I believe this is the truth none of this Itachi loved u more than the whole village bullshit.

[xXan]

I will put up te fact that Sasuke remembered how Itachi was crying that night ... No Itachi loved them all and died inside when he killed his family/friends but he wanted to avoid a civil war. Yes he loved Sasuke more then anything probably ... All his life he build Sasuke so he could defend the village AND return to the Konoha as a hero after killing Itachi.
Also i belive Itachi was sure Sasuke was going to attack Konoha and that is why he gave that gift to Naruto.
But i think there is some truth to what you say. Itachi does hope Sasuke would change the Uchiha. Now the fact that he loved Sasuke more then his parents is not that exaggerated. Itachi and Sasuke had a special relationship i think.

Oh and Itachi's last words are also something that for me enforces his love for his little brother more then anything.
"i am sorry Sasuke, this is the last time"
Just beautiful. Personaly i think that he killed the clan not only to defend the village and stop a civil war that would turn in the next ninja world war but also because he loved Sasuke so much that he never wanted for him to grow in a world filled with war and death... So the question you need to ask is :
Has Itachi killed his clan to avoid a civil war and a world war and to save his village from that or has he done that because he wanted to save his little kid brother from a world filled with hate and war ?? Personaly i think its the later. Itachi never wanted for Sasuke to grow up in the same nightmare Itachi had to (in a world at war). So to protect Sasuke from that he killed the clan (and not to protect the village). This is my take on it.

[DementedKirby]

Nice theory. However, Itachi met again with Sasuke after the clan's genocide. And he once again insisted that he was too weak and that he "lacked hatred". If Itachi really meant for Sasuke to not follow in the clan's bloody history, he wouldn't've owned him when he found Naruto and Jiraiya.

I think that Itachi wanted Sasuke to obtain the Mangekyou in order to force him to take his eyes. That way, Sasuke could then go after Madara and be able to take him on. After avenging the Uchiha, he would clear their name. That was Itachi's true goal. It's not that Konoha was more important to Itachi than the clan; it's just that he trusted his kid brother to do it for him - take advantage of the fact that Sasuke would have that natural rivalry. Hell, even on the brink of death from illness Itachi could've whooped Sasuke's ass in the blink of an eye (no pun intended).

I agree with you that much: Sasuke was not more important than the village. That was Madara's manipulation. Hell, even knowing that he had to kill Naruto, in the end he couldn't do it. It wasn't until he loathed peace and Konoha that he truly decided to erase Naruto. Now Sasuke is unrepairable. Even Naruto knows so. That's why he's determined to kill him - even if they die together. Cuz he knows that nothing can save Sasuke. Hmmmm... though there's still Itachi's legacy that he left with Naruto...

[yugito]

Plus, you forget that Sasuke has confronted Dansou about this case and it seems like Madara was telling the truth.

[mattiaildivino]

He lied only about the fox's attack. I think the rest is healthy.

[Dekker]

Eugh... Boy, even Danzo knew what was going on. You think Danzou would also lie to Sasuke about Itachi? Why should he say the same as Madara? Why did Itachi laugh at Sasuke and say "Sorry for the last time?". Why did Itachi talk to Naruto and was happy that he does not want to kill Sasuke?
The only thing he lied about was the fox. And I am pretty sure, that it was common knowledge of the Uchihas, that Madara was still alive and kicking. After all, not even one Uchiha was shown defending Konoha, not one was there when the Kyuubiattack happened. Why didn't Itachi kill Kakashi, why did Itachi not kill Jirajya (and im certain that a full blown Amaterasu would have killed him), why was he happy Naruto was able to destroy his clone. All this does not add up to Itachi lieing to Sasuke. He simply truly loved him. He was still pure, just like he told Naurto.

[xXan]

Nice theory. However, Itachi met again with Sasuke after the clan's genocide. And he once again insisted that he was too weak and that he "lacked hatred". If Itachi really meant for Sasuke to not follow in the clan's bloody history, he wouldn't've owned him when he found Naruto and Jiraiya.

I think that Itachi wanted Sasuke to obtain the Mangekyou in order to force him to take his eyes. That way, Sasuke could then go after Madara and be able to take him on. After avenging the Uchiha, he would clear their name. That was Itachi's true goal. It's not that Konoha was more important to Itachi than the clan; it's just that he trusted his kid brother to do it for him - take advantage of the fact that Sasuke would have that natural rivalry. Hell, even on the brink of death from illness Itachi could've whooped Sasuke's ass in the blink of an eye (no pun intended).

I agree with you that much: Sasuke was not more important than the village. That was Madara's manipulation. Hell, even knowing that he had to kill Naruto, in the end he couldn't do it. It wasn't until he loathed peace and Konoha that he truly decided to erase Naruto. Now Sasuke is unrepairable. Even Naruto knows so. That's why he's determined to kill him - even if they die together. Cuz he knows that nothing can save Sasuke. Hmmmm... though there's still Itachi's legacy that he left with Naruto...

No, Naruto still thinks he can save him. That is why he said he is going to take all his hate and bla bla bla. Go read it again. He plans to do watever it takes to save him, inluding to die there with him. They always where able to talk better with there fists so .. Remember what he said to Jirayia ? He will never abandon Sasuke, NEVER, his way of the ninja to never go back on his word so again he still fights to save him not kill him.

You are also rong about Sasuke he WAS more important to Itachi then the village.

[M3J]

You also forgot that Itachi's final encounter with Naruto showed that Itachi did care about his brother. Itachi didn't wish to fight with Naruto but rather talk to him about Sasuke, and it seemed like Itachi was hoping Naruto would be the one to keep Sasuke alive and thus gave him power. This event alone should solidify Tobi's claim about Itachi loving Sasuke.

[xallisto]

You misunderstand what im saying here. im not saying that he didint love Sasuke, but saying that he was more important than the village is nonsense.

otherwise the whole massacre wouldant make sense.

if he loved sasuke more than the village then why did he follow the villages orders and take everything away from him? out of love?????? i dont think so.

He spared Sasuke and put him 2 the test, and while im sure he had high hopes that Sasuke would pass (and he did) Itachi knew that if Sasuke had done as he said blindly and killed his best friend. Itachi would have had to kill him, because then Sasuke would have been no different than the clan who would betreay thier comrads for power love had nothing 2 do with it.

Itachi spared Sasuke so that the Uchiha would have a chance at redemtion.

As for the comments about Danzou, its more than possible that Itachi made them agree 2 this before he slaughtered them all and also very possible that he had told them exactly what to say 2 Sasuke should they ever confront him.

[DementedKirby]

No, Naruto still thinks he can save him. That is why he said he is going to take all his hate and bla bla bla. Go read it again. He plans to do watever it takes to save him, inluding to die there with him. They always where able to talk better with there fists so .. Remember what he said to Jirayia ? He will never abandon Sasuke, NEVER, his way of the ninja to never go back on his word so again he still fights to save him not kill him.

You are also rong about Sasuke he WAS more important to Itachi then the village.

If Naruto is willing to die with him, that right there proves that Naruto knows there's no way back and that in the end the only salvation is death. He said it himself. He knows that words aren't enough. They'd have to fight to the death; Naruto loves his village and won't allow Sasuke to destroy it or kill everyone. Deep down he realized that there's no way back for Sasuke. Because when they're both dead they're neither Uchiha nor jinchuuriki. You should go back and read it yourself.

And about Itachi: he begged Sandaime to spare Sasuke. If Sandaime would've said otherwise, do you think Itachi would've spared Sasuke? Think about that awhile. Itachi spared Sasuke because he knew that the third hokage would look out for him. That's why he returned when Sarutobi was killed by Orochimaru. To remind the elders about what they did. Itachi wanted Sasuke to get broken so that he "kills" Itachi and then kill Madara, thus saving the village, redeeming his clan in the eyes of the world, and bringing Sasuke's path of vengeance to a halt.

And about Naruto's confrontation with Itachi. Itachi knew that there was a chance for Sasuke to be influenced by Madara. That's why he made three failsafes: talk to Naruto, tell him the truth about Madara, then implant a dormant Amaterasu to be cast upon Sasuke seeing Madara. So far 67% of Itachi's plans have failed. What's left is Naruto. Deep down Itachi knew that no matter how Naruto did it, convincing Sasuke or defeating him, Naruto would be the one to save Konoha from Sasuke. That's why Itachi decided to save him. When Naruto said that he would save Sasuke without killing him, Itachi told him to be realistic and that as a ninja he would have to make difficult decisions (speaking from experience). So Itachi knows their fate. It's that simple. Konoha is safe and Sasuke is dead. Therefor: Konoha > Sasuke.

[insid3rkill3r]

You misunderstand what im saying here. im not saying that he didint love Sasuke, but saying that he was more important than the village is nonsense.

otherwise the whole massacre wouldant make sense.

if he loved sasuke more than the village then why did he follow the villages orders and take everything away from him? out of love?????? i dont think so.

He spared Sasuke and put him 2 the test, and while im sure he had high hopes that Sasuke would pass (and he did) Itachi knew that if Sasuke had done as he said blindly and killed his best friend. Itachi would have had to kill him, because then Sasuke would have been no different than the clan who would betreay thier comrads for power love had nothing 2 do with it.

Itachi spared Sasuke so that the Uchiha would have a chance at redemtion.

As for the comments about Danzou, its more than possible that Itachi made them agree 2 this before he slaughtered them all and also very possible that he had told them exactly what to say 2 Sasuke should they ever confront him.

He took everything from him yes he did, because he COULDNT KILL HIM.

Danzo said it, Sasuke really was special to him.

Everything Danzo said was the truth, what would have been the point in telling those 'lies' if Danzo's plan from the start was to get rid of Sasuke and now to kill him and take his eyes.....???

See Danzo's part alone knocs your 'theory' down.....


I doubt itachi wanted redemption for the Uchiha clan in the end, in fact, the Uchiha NEVER did anything to be seen as a rebeilous clan. Even tho they did plan for a coup d'etat, the only ones who knew this were the 3 elders, Sarutobi and the Uchiha clan, no one else but Madara.

So this isnt a valid point, it all head towards Itachi wanted to turn Sasuke into a hero to the shinobi would by being powerful and by defeating Itachi aka a missing nin.






Itachi cared about Sasuke above all...... there is NOTHING else to say.

What choices did Itachi have ???


It was said in the manga and databook again and again ;

They all tried to make peace but it failed, thus leading to the Uchiha still going for their plans about taking over the villlage.

What would have happened then? As Madara stated, this could have invited other countries to invade and seek destruction upon the leaf which means = massive amout of casualities = maybe Sasuke left alone just like he was in the first place.


Both scenarios could have ended the same way, with the difference that Itachi wiping out the clan gave open doors to Sasuke.

It made Itachi the SOLE responsible fo the pain Sasuke had to deal with, and gave Sasuke the opportunity to feel that he was still at home among the leaf, not that he was living with the ones that pushed the Uchiha to the side.

And do not forget a VERY important point ...... Madara.


Madara was sneaking arround all this time, trying to find a way to destroy the leaf..... Itachi gave him an opportunity to find some 'pleasure' and by doing so, he prevented him from going all out on the leaf.


Imagine an Uchiha coup d'etat with Madara jumping in as well as the other countries..... yeah,, doesnt smell so good.


Itachi did what he had to do, cause either way Sasuke was bound to loose everything , except that with Itachi's alternative, Sasuke would have only had to blame 1 person for the whole thing, and he wouldnt have to 'hate' his family, and find a place for himself, and thats actually if he would actually still be alive after the most-likely happening War.


And Itachi said to Sasuke to kill his best friend not to put him to the test, but to make him stronger and to give him the opportunity to achieve the EMS by taking Itachi's eyes.....

Sasuke was not supposed to get MS from Itachi's death, because he wasnt supposed to know the truth about him,, Itachi planned for Sasuke to get MS from 'Naruto' and to take Itachi's eyes right away to gain EMS thus turn him into someone extremely strong.


So man, with all due respect, you have the right to not think perhaps that Madara isnt all saying the truth but.... with Danzo's claiming the same things when he clearly doesnt work on Sasuke and Madara's side, it clearly knocks ur theory off the edge.

You need to give them the benefit of the doubt, nothing whatsoever hint the otherway arround, and Kishi has established this background extremely well, and everything is the way it is for a reason.

There was no such thing as Itachi telling Danzo what to say when he would fight him because that wouldnt just make no sense at all, not a single bit.

Itachi wiping the clan to protect Sasuke above all makes sense, you just need to look further into it and take everything into consideration.

Also remember that threatened to pretty much 'destroy Konoha' if Danzo was to do anything to Sasuke, which clearly means that Sasuke's life is more important to him than Konoha......

Itachi's sole life objective was to make Sasuke as strong as possible and as admired as possible. He wanted people to see Sasuke as the pinacle of the Shinobi. And that is why he gave everything for that to happen, even if it put Konoha at risk.


If the Uchiha HAD rebeiled, i could have seen you're point about Itachi wanting the Uchiha clan to achieve 'redemption' in a sense, but given the fact that the only ones who knew the truth about Itachi are the very same ones who planned the massacre with him makes no sense at all.....

Again, i respect you're opinion, but givien the fact that it took so long and actually took Kishi so many chapters to build this imcomparable love from Itachi to Sasuke and him being the most important thing to him it wouldnt make sense at all ...... that would be extremely bad writting.

[Zau]

Someone already mentioned this, but Itachi wouldn't have collaborated with Danzou about what to say to Sasuke-he never wanted Sasuke to know the truth. Remember when Sasuke first met Madara, and Sasuke's eye shot out Amaterasu when he saw Madara's Sharingan? That trap was intended to kill Madara before Madara could tell Sasuke the truth.

Itachi was trying to set Sasuke up to be a hero, and one of the most powerful ninja in the world. Which is why Itachi even bothered to tell Sasuke about the EMS in the first place-if he didn't want Sasuke to go after power, he would have kept that detail a secret.

Hell, Itachi could have kept the secrets of the Mangekyou to himself...if he really wanted Sasuke to abandon the clan's old ways, he would have just kept the whole thing secret.

Every bit of evidence points to him trying to make Sasuke a hero-even prolonging the fight to guarantee that Orochimaru would come out so he could kill him and remove his influence from Sasuke.

But yea. Itachi never wanted Sasuke to know-he wouldn't have told Danzou to lie to Sasuke for him. I highly doubt Danzou would have still gone along with it after he knew Itachi was already dead even if he had.

[DementedKirby]

But yea. Itachi never wanted Sasuke to know-he wouldn't have told Danzou to lie to Sasuke for him. I highly doubt Danzou would have still gone along with it after he knew Itachi was already dead even if he had.

Yeah, I agree 100%. Danzou didn't approve of Sasuke's survival, but he had to keep quiet because he knows that no one there could've taken on Itachi. That, and as a missing nin Itachi would've had no problems ratting them out to other nations. Now that Sasuke is a missing nin and on Madara's side, Danzou correctly assumed that the beans were spilled to Sasuke. Oh, how naïve Danzou was assuming that it was Itachi who revealed the secret. Itachi wouldn't throw away the lie he created. Itachi's genius will never be topped. Ever. Period.

[Dattebayo!]

There's alot of paths this could go down, all with solid arguments for eachother too... my personal opinion is :

Slaughtering the clan seems much more like something Madara would expect Itachi to do to show he was on his side... plus it gives Madara a whole lot of sharingans to pluck out (as we have seen his collection this kinda makes sense)

We also now know Itachi was being falsely accused for Shusui's death and that it was most likely Danzou who had him killed for his eye, so all in all I dont think we have seen the *true* story behind Itachi, we have seen the story Madara told Sasuke to (in Itachi's own words) "dye him any colour he wanted" and we have had snippets from the battle with Danzou, but there wasnt enough said which could have impacted upon Sasuke, who had already made his mind up upon Danzou's fate.

As for the Amerterasu coming from Sasuke's eyes.. I take a different view again, I believe Itachi did pass it to Sasuke, not to stop Madara telling him "the truth" but Itachi *knew* Madara would tell Sasuke the wrong things, which is why Itachi had talked to Naruto previously, because he knew Madara would use Sasuke, who in his own words is naieve :- "Sasuke is still naieve and could be dyed any colour" what he was saying is Sasuke is naieve and Madara will use it to his advantage.

Alot of the storyline we are seeing and alot of the conversations which we have all based our predictions and our knowledge on are what Madara has said to Sasuke, and lets face it he will tell Sasuke anything to keep him under his control.

[jalix]

it annoys me how many people seem 2 take Madara at his work, just reading a wiki entry on Itachi stating that he spared his brother life because he was more important to Itachi than the village, i dont belive this at all it makes no sense.

why wipe out your own clan children included but spare Sasuke.

i think that the only reason he didint was not beacuse of love or anything of the sort but beacuse Sasuke was not guilty and also to test Sasuke.

Think about it why did Itachi tell Sasuke about the mangekyou sharingan and how to obtain it. why did he tell him not to come before him untill he obtained the same eyes?

I think the truth lies somewhere in between. Sorry for the cliche, but it's true! I do agree - I never took 'Madara''s words as the whole truth. He put in bits and pieces in order to manipulate. And we know that Madara's good at manipulation because he's boasted as much while talking to Naruto and in the fight he had vs. Konan, where he talked about the Rinnegan, Nagato and Yahiko. That's a whole other story we haven't heard about yet. Just like we have no idea how exactly Itachi figured out 'Madara' was still alive (maybe it was after the 9 tails incident? Later on a mission?) to begin with.

I also thought his massacre explanation was weird. One thing that always stood out to me was how Shisui has been brought up so much more... to the point where it's almost possible to theorize that somehow, Itachi could have succombed to his jutsu somehow. That whole massacre incident... along with 'Madara' controlling the Mizukage... and then while controlling the Mizukage going through rituals and procedures similar to the Uchihas (how to obtain a MS) in the "Blood mist" village tie together, IMO. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Madara lied about Itachi.

What I don't think he lied about, was Itachi's affection for his younger brother. Because I think Sasuke can vouch for this, and later we got a glimpse of his feelings during the 9 tails attack where mysteriously, the Uchiha adults were all missing. Another detail Kishimoto was sure to add that probably isn't a coincidence. So yeah, there's still a lot of secrets left about the Uchihas, Uzumakis, etc.