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Thread: Shingeki no Kyojin Hangout Thread

  1. #511
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Hangout Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ImmortalZodd View Post
    I actually think it's Reiner's personality that we don't know. Since the goody-goody soldier Reiner is just a fabrication, right?
    Berth and Annie's behaviour fits the situation, since they infiltrated the enemy. It's only natural that they will keep their distance and a low profile, and generaly feel detached from the rest.
    But I do believe that they have a damn good reason for their actions, like it just had to be done. Maybe it was even hinted in this conversation between Annie and Armin.
    http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no...05/c021/6.html
    http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no...05/c021/5.html
    My idea is that we have seen more of reyner because he is the one that has gotten more involved with everyone unlike bernolt. Wasn't it hinted that it was because of reyner's honest and upfront personality that he is going a tad more insane at a time? Reyner was ultimately in a situation where he would show his true self to others because he truly got to care hence why he has done things like saving his comrades at his own expense. Bernholt not being as upfront or honest as reyner would result in him being more detached from everyone. He is the one that has kept a low profile, he is the one that knows at all times what he is doing. We just had reyner talking about getting a promotion in the army right after he basically revealed to the world he was a mass murderer.

  2. #512
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Hangout Thread

    They 100% follow the Terrorist profile.

    They were raised to believe in the Cause they're fighting for. Being taught to hate their enemy since very young. Sent on a genocide mission, ended up infiltrating the enemy lines for intel gathering and learnt the enemy isn't that unlikeable after all.

    Tough I think the only one who really believed in the Cause is Reiner. The point being that once he gets to know humans better, his inner world (which was built over dogmatic beliefs) starts crumbling, causing him to develop his mental illness.

    Bertholdt just wants to go back home and is on this mission because he doesn't have the strength to oppose whatever other people forced him into. Annie will put her own life over anything else, the Cause can go fuck itself if that means paying the greatest price.

    Quote Originally Posted by ImmortalZodd View Post
    I actually think it's Reiner's personality that we don't know. Since the goody-goody soldier Reiner is just a fabrication, right?
    Nope, I don't think the Soldier persona is fabricated at all. He always is the same Reiner. Just he unconsciously suppressed his memories of being a warrior, but his behavior is true to his personality all the way (caring for companions, putting his life on the line for them, fighting for what he believes in, fullfilling his duty to the very last, etc.).

    In fact his biggest inner conflict is about not knowing what to believe in anymore. When forced to make a decision on the spot, he opted to adhere to the Warrior's agenda out of his sense of duty rather than cause he thought it was the "right" thing to do. His personality never actually changes, aside from acting as a Warrior or a Soldier, depending on whatever his mind tells him to be in each situation.

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  4. #513
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Yumpo's Avatar
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Hangout Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bandreus View Post
    Bertholdt just wants to go back home and is on this mission because he doesn't have the strength to oppose whatever other people forced him into. Annie will put her own life over anything else, the Cause can go fuck itself if that means paying the greatest price.
    As much as you guys were talking about Reiner and Bert...I just have to point out that Annie doesn't seem to be like that...OMG. I don't know why. If she puts her own life over anything else, why did she have to go through great lengths to even follow the mission up to this point(knowing pretty much what they're doing is a suicide mission)? She could've abandon the mission a long time ago. In fact, she shouldn't have been part of their mission at all.

    And I'm starting to believe this "Cause" has something to do with Ymir's conversation with Reiner in Chapter 46. You know, something about the world having "no future." Err...But it's a little too early to judge...

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  6. #514
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Hangout Thread

    Well, when I said "she would put her life over any mission" maybe I was too definitive with my wording. She obviously his on the mission however risky it is. I don't think the mission can be considered a 100% suicide one, but incredibly risky indeed.

    What I'm trying to say is, she really wants to save her hide at all the times, and I don't really mean it in a "everybody wants to live on" kind of way. I mean it in a "Okay look, I'm doing this because this need be done, but I will do whatever I can to avoid getting the shorter end of the stick" sense. Sadly enough, she is the one who got herself captured first. Somebody was advancing the idea she got in the Police in order to more easily gather info from inside the wall, but I truly believe she really did that to put herself in a safer spot (although this point is probably still left open for speculation).

    If you put all she said during/after training together with her father flashback "I know you will hate me, but I want you to consider all of humanity as your enemy. Also promise you will come back", you really get the sense she really was forcibly grown into becoming what she is. Her strong will to survive, well at least in my mind, is testament to her thinking "this isn't something I would willingly sacrifice my life for and be happy with it". Get my drift? Yeah, it's complicated.

    The Cause... we know very close to zero about it, but I could guess it has to be like with most causes which end up sprouting terrorist groups. Maybe their group of origin was being subject of some atrocious repression and/or experimentation, hence they are moved by hate and revenge?

    Furthermore, maybe the "Warriors" aren't alleged to regular Titans at all, hence they might be willing to have humanity wiped out completely anyway cause they do thing the world doesn't have a future anyways.

    Oh, and I don't think they are related to Ymir after all. Reiner seems to be aware about what Ymir really is (probably because of their first meeting several years before and the fact she can read the old language). But Ymir sincerely seemed to know little about the gorup of Warriors as she really looked honest with all of her questioning. She might know more than it looks, but she doesn't seem THAT knowledgeable either. I'm a bit clueless on this regard.

    Only wild speculations there, don't get that too seriously. I hope Isayama tells us a tinsy bit more about their faction soon.
    Last edited by Bandreus; June 27, 2013 at 06:09 AM.

  7. #515
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member kannazuki's Avatar
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Hangout Thread

    Just a guess but I think that regular humans are partly responsible for the world "ending" (however that is meant), and the shifters' early, simplistic solution was just to wipe out everyone but the shifting population. Eren is different somehow though. I mean no matter how I look at it, I can't help thinking Reiner wasn't lying when he promised Bert and him wouldn't endanger the human population anymore if Eren came with them. Not surprisingly, there's surely something special about our MC other than the fact he can become a titan. Actually, if time leap/loop theory is true, perhaps they recognized Eren's titan form?

    RBA are ALL human, it seems to me. Just brainwashed. Like the "terrorist" description above says, they were surely indoctrinated but now they are examining reality and not sure if they believe as much in what they are doing as they once did. (Reiner is obviously messed up and yes, I do think Bert is somewhat affected by the consequences of his actions even if he's too subdued to show it very much.) If Annie can apologize amidst the Trost casualties; show disappointment at people's choices to join the scouting legion (from her view they're either/both running off to die &/or becoming her sworn enemies... and it's probably hurtful to her to think of it that way); spare Armin's life when she could have killed him; openly call herself a bad person even while being honest enough to call out the corrupt BS at the top of the royal military police-- to anyone who would listen, starting with Eren --then obviously she has a heart too. It's just her "friends" come third, the mission comes second, and her life comes first, no matter how she feels. She's got strong priorities, that one.

  8. #516
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Hangout Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by kannazuki View Post
    openly call herself a bad person even while being honest enough to call out the corrupt BS at the top of the royal military police-- to anyone who would listen, starting with Eren --then obviously she has a heart too. It's just her "friends" come third, the mission comes second, and her life comes first, no matter how she feels. She's got strong priorities, that one.
    Which is interesting. Her being that much of a lone-wolf, in a way, seems to be a form of self-defense in order for her to stay alive longer. Obviously, the moment you start caring for friends you'll sooner or later put your life on the line for their sake.

    I believe she went through a similar path Reiner did, meeteing "surprising" people and growing a feeling of respect for them. But no matter what she felt, the "I will be on my own" way of doing things was always there keeping herself away from trouble.

    She visibly tried resisting the urge to help Armin & co. out when they asked her to, but in the end she was won and that leads to her demise. Ooh the tragedy (I really really felt bad for her).

    I have a feeling SnK will soon hit the "Wait, have we been fighting the wrong people for all the time?" moment. Possibly with 3+ factions being behind this whole mystery.
    Last edited by Bandreus; June 27, 2013 at 06:39 AM.

  9. #517
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Yumpo's Avatar
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Hangout Thread

    I still kind of disagree that she puts her life first. If anything, I think she puts her life second. First is the mission. I don't know how, but just reading throughout chapter 27 until the last page, makes me actually think that she's one of those people who's capable of changing the world...You know how Armin had a long speech in that chapter, "those who have the ability to change something in this world, all without exception, have guts to abandon things important to them if they have to..." and then, cut through until the last page you see Erwin shocked and realized that he can't believe the enemy is willing to abandon literally EVERYTHING. I don't know...But pretty much, this chapter somehow describes Annie too(If it doesn't, then I don't know what's the point of the speech for this chapter and the connection on Erwin's description of Annie's actions...). I don't think that's what you'd call someone who would place their lives first.

    Also, judging from some chapters where Annie's father appeared(or when she talks about him), I think her father is actually pretty nice, albeit too idealistic, I should say. When her father said to treat the whole world as enemy, that's also the time he said he was wrong. Makes me actually think her father, at first, believed otherwise. I think their village actually hates humanity or some sort(judging how Reiner said he considers humans in the walls are "fools") but Annie's father somehow kind of opposes these kind of views(Seeing as how she connects people like Eren to her father-"going against the tides"). However, something came up and her father is forced to reconsider these beliefs then tells Annie that "every beliefs I forced into you are wrong" kind of speech. But this is just my somehow biased(I'm an Annie-addict XD) and baseless conjecture though.
    Last edited by Yumpo; June 27, 2013 at 12:52 PM.

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  11. #518
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member kannazuki's Avatar
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Hangout Thread

    Interesting perspective. I'll be reviewing those chapters when I can, so I'll see what you mean when I get there.

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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Hangout Thread

    Yeah, I definitely can see where you're coming from and it makes lots of sense.

    We obviously don't have the full picture yet. Actually we do lack the larger portion of it, so it's kind of hard to definitely frame characters' personalities as well. And I do think Annie definitely got to a point where she's kind of going to her way of living, so to speak, so she's quite troubled as well.

    When I say "she puts life first yada yada yada" I'm more talking her basic, underling psychology rather than what she might actually do in the current situation. In fact her stepping out of her way to accept Armin's request for help is a bit "out of character" for her, meaning she's definitely living an inner conflict, changing her mind about some things, etc.

    I like how characters in SnK are so dynamic, you can definitely see their personalities evolving over a short span of time, they really do feel alive because of all of their struggles.

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    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member kannazuki's Avatar
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Hangout Thread

    Actually I think she decided to help Eren partly because there was an opportunity in it for her to capture him and partly because it doesn't help her to turn him over to the authorities so even if she can't capture him, it's still better to help them out and have him wandering free on his own. I also suspected she might have had a clue what was going down but wasn't sure. Sometimes you have no choice but to go risk springing the trap that you know is waiting for you, and hope that when the time comes, you can still escape.

  14. #521
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member ImmortalZodd's Avatar
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Hangout Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yumpo View Post
    cut through until the last page you see Erwin shocked and realized that he can't believe the enemy is willing to abandon literally EVERYTHING. I don't know...
    He only said that cause he believed she just commited suicide, which she didn't.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Yumpo's Avatar
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Hangout Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ImmortalZodd View Post
    He only said that cause he believed she just commited suicide, which she didn't.
    And then risking getting eaten by titans along with her titan form? If I recall this ability is sort of a last resort. I don't know. She's risking too much including her life here just so no one could extract information from her. It's too much to end a chapter with that note if an author doesn't intend that the character is like that all.

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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Hangout Thread

    I'm with Yumpo on this. I've always felt Annie to be more warrior-like than (the current) Reiner or Bertholdt because of this. On a related note, Reiner calls her "not fit to be a soldier" during their first shown sparring session (interesting to point out that the word used in the Anime is "warrior" instead...)

    I'm a big fan of Annie myself, and I think she is't a bad person deep down (let's ignore the 'controversial' mass-murdering issue for now XD ) There are bits I especially take notice of, such as:
    - the first time seeing her smile (after Eren pulled off her move on Reiner, Annie offered to teach Eren her move and then joke around with him by flooring him lol,)
    - saying "sorry" to somebody (Marco?) after the Titan raid,
    - when she spared Armin (I always couldn't fully understand when she said it was a "gamble" by letting him live, I can see where she's coming from, but I think she was using that as an explanation to hide her softness, whether due to being an acquaintance or admiration from what Armin said to her during the gear-check)
    - I sweeeeaaaar I could see tears swelling in her eyes right at the end before she crystalises... (probably due to the flashback. That said, she's probably fond of her father, but covers it up with poor lies just like Eren said.)

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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Hangout Thread

    Annie and the 2 others have not the same goals. But they probaly encountered each others before, maybe there are childhood friends but they haven't the same hometown. During the training session, Reiner was teasing them probably because he asked her help and refused.

    Annie is fighting against humans only because of her father, she is the nicest of the 3 and the only one I consider as an anti-villain now. She has probably the most tragic past of the manga. Seriously, look at her face when she was about to be captured, she is absolutely not a straight villain. Reiner and Bert destroy towns and kill a lot of people but Annie doesn't operate like that. She probably teamed up with them after the training session because they were annoying her. Still, she didn't attacked during the Trost battle, only during the expedition arc because she wants to kill as few persons as possible. She is probably ok with killing soldiers because they are warriors.
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  19. #525
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member ImmortalZodd's Avatar
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    Re: Shingeki no Kyojin Hangout Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yumpo View Post
    And then risking getting eaten by titans along with her titan form? If I recall this ability is sort of a last resort. I don't know. She's risking too much including her life here just so no one could extract information from her. It's too much to end a chapter with that note if an author doesn't intend that the character is like that all.
    But that still could be her putting her life in first, not the mission. I mean, sure, she risked her life, but what would be the alternative? Being captured by Scouting Legion. I don't think it's about witholding information or caring about the mission, she just doesn't want to be captured/interogated/tortured/experimented on. And wasn't crystallization her last resort?

    Quote Originally Posted by Demonspeed View Post
    Annie and the 2 others have not the same goals. But they probaly encountered each others before, maybe there are childhood friends but they haven't the same hometown. During the training session, Reiner was teasing them probably because he asked her help and refused.
    I wondered about that as well. Like, what is Annie's purpose in this mission. Maybe she's a general fighter type that just was supposed to jump in in case if Berth or Reiner got themselves in a tight spot?
    Annie could also be a substitute for the guy that was with R&B earlier that got eaten by Ymir?
    It could explain why she seems a lot more distant from R&B, since she was additionaly added to the team.

    Quote Originally Posted by Demonspeed View Post
    Annie and Reiner and Bert destroy towns and kill a lot of people but Annie doesn't operate like that.
    It's not like Annie doesn't carry the fault and responsibility simply because she didn't directly engage in the attack. But her fault for the 20% of the dead is completely equal to those of R&B.
    Last edited by ImmortalZodd; June 28, 2013 at 06:53 AM.

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