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View Poll Results: Should Hollows be killed?

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Thread: Is it okay to kill Hollows?

  1. #1
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Is it okay to kill Hollows?

    I've been thinking about this for some time. Hollows, from the very beginning of the story, have been made out as the bad guys who need to be found and destroyed by the Shinigami as they are just mindless killers who've lost their hearts; hence the hole in their body.

    However, in the latest arcs we've gotten more and more evidence that it is not so. Pretty much all Arrancar show a fair bit of humanity (In good or bad ways). The likes of Nel clearly are capable of care, and not only make a family for themselves out of fellow hollow but quite literally show that they do have a heart in the way she is against killing and cares for Ichigo/her Fraccion. And it's not just her: Nnoitra, Starrk and many others show the ability to care about something other then just destruction/eating/etc.

    In fact I remember, though I cannot find it now (perhaps it was just an anime thing?) an Arrancar giving a Shinigami a "You hunt us, you kill us simply for existing" speech which was the first thing that gave me this idea that hollows were a society like any other that were discriminated against due to a steryotype.

    Of course, it can be argued that the Arrancar are different, as they are more then hollows, obtaining Shinigami powers BUT EVEN THEN there is evidence that hollows have some sort of 'humanity' after all. For one thing, in Grimmjow's flashback, before he is an Arrancar but just a simple hollow (albeit a high level one) it is shown how his companions (Family anyone?) offer themselves for him to eat so that he can become strong and achieve his dreams.

    It just seems to me like the 'heartless hollow' is a steryotype rather then a race. Especially when you consider that their instinct to 'kill' is nothing more then a survival one. Just like we kill animals to eat. And in the 'spirit food chain' humans can very much be considered on the level of livestock. What do you all think?
    Last edited by Boris999; January 12, 2011 at 06:46 PM.

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  3. #2
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Is it okay to kill Hollows?

    ^Do you remember the murderous strike orihime's brother went through when he turned into a hollow? How about the hollows that attacked karakura town when ishida used the bait? Hollows for the most part lose their intelligence soon after turning into hollows and have a hunger which leads them to kill other people. Even if they do regain their intelligence they are still compelled by their hunger and desperation to eat other hollows. Perhaps it would not be ok to go to hueco mundo and kill every hollow in sight due to the balance of souls which forced the shinigami to kill the quincy but it is definitely the right thing to do to annihilate each and every hollow that sets foot in the human world because otherwise they would feed on every tasty human they find.

    Arrancar should not be compared to hollows, they are inherently different creatures. Not to mention that is was only arrancar that had a reasonable amount of intelligence before transforming that showed a degree of intelligence to begin with.

    The arrancar you mention is zomari I think but you forget that he also defended the hunting of humans and accused the shinigami of meddling with that. Should shinigami not defend humans from hollows? I doubt that would be a good option.

    Of course there can be a "good" hollow but that would be a rarity to say the least. Even then, it would have to go through the intelligence devoid phase where it kills humans to fill in the emptiness, then it would have to go through the whole evolving thing where it would have to merge with other several hundred hollows to form a menos grande, be lucky enough to retain his identity and then make it through the whole menos evolution thingy..... Even then, would it be likely for a hollow to remain good or maintain its sanity after the sheer amount bloodshed involved in every step of the way here?

    Its not like shinigami go to hueco mundo and nuke the hell out of hollows. They merely kill the hollows that put human lives at risk.

  4. #3
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Is it okay to kill Hollows?

    The way I see it is that hollow's aren't really killed by shimigami. They are cleaned of their sins and returned to being humans in soul society. The more compassionate hollows are always the one's that are much closer to human then other hollows. So while getting back to human doesn't have to be by a shimigami blade, it's easier then the process arrancar's go though, and that process doesn't even make it close enough to break away from the murdering urges they have.

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  6. #4
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Aikidoka's Avatar
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    Re: Is it okay to kill Hollows?

    Quote Originally Posted by kulash05 View Post
    The way I see it is that hollow's aren't really killed by shimigami. They are cleaned of their sins and returned to being humans in soul society.
    That's actually how it works (IIRC from the first arc), when Hollow's are struck in their masks by a Zanpakuto, they become Pluses and go to Soul Society. What I don't get is how that process works for Arrancar. From Menos stage they essentially become composite souls, made up of the identities of all other Hollows that were eaten by the main, dominant identity. What happens when an Arrancar is "killed", then? Do all of those souls become Pluses? What about those souls that should go to Hell? Do some of them go to Hell, while others become Pluses? The Movie seems to suggest that Arrancar go to Hell, but not only is it not canon, but it also suggests that all an Arrancar's souls deserved to go to Hell, which is unlikely. And what about when a Hollow kills, not eats, another Hollow? Does the eaten Hollow just cease to exist? That would tip the balance of the scales as well wouldn't it?
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    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Roflkopt3r's Avatar
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    Re: Is it okay to kill Hollows?

    While the process of killing ordinary hollows obviously is rather a service to the soul of that hollow and even the total extermination by a quincy isn't that bad of a faith compared to the existence as a hollow, it's questionable about the Arrancar.

    I would say that it is up to the arrancar. If they turn against someone, like most slain arrancar who openly turned against soul society, it's obviously ok. They put up a fight, so soul society has to defend itself.
    If an arrancar choses not to harm anyone, there is no reason to kill it.

    I don't know if Kubo ever had an idea what would happen to the souls of an arrancar when it died, or even what happened to the consumed ones. I think all of this became rather inconsistent after the soul society arc, after all it wasn't included in the original design of Bleach.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Richo's Avatar
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    Re: Is it okay to kill Hollows?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roflkopt3r View Post
    I would say that it is up to the arrancar. If they turn against someone, like most slain arrancar who openly turned against soul society, it's obviously ok. They put up a fight, so soul society has to defend itself.
    If an arrancar choses not to harm anyone, there is no reason to kill it.
    Look at Nel, she did never bother anyone if she could. It depends on the person who dominates the arrancar.
    Quote Quote:
    I don't know if Kubo ever had an idea what would happen to the souls of an arrancar when it died, or even what happened to the consumed ones. I think all of this became rather inconsistent after the soul society arc, after all it wasn't included in the original design of Bleach.
    I believe that hollows once they become Menos the souls that are not dominant are "destroyed" when a arrancar or menos dies 1 soul gets cleansed and goes to SS.
    I realise the following is not cannot but fits:
    During 1st bleach movie there were blanks who are in essence souls who have yet to be born in the human world to keep the balance between the dimensions. If the opposite is true as some have suggested here and all the arrancars who died split up all the souls they devoured over the years SS will have a flood of new souls.
    Do the math and we will come to several ten thousands of souls for all the arrancar if not hundred thousands of souls. A simple gillian when created consists of already 100 hollows and to keep it easy lets assume they consist of 1 soul, for a gillian to evolve they need to devour atleast equal amount of gillians to become a adjuchas which is already 100 * 100 = 100.000 souls. This would only create a weak adjuchas where as most espada are wintered adjuchas who devoured likely hundreds of other adjuchas or gillians so that could even mean tens of millions new souls come into SS and the balance is greatly disturbed.

  9. #7
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Is it okay to kill Hollows?

    Of course, certain Hollow have their humanity left, but they remain hunters intent on killing. Hueco Mondo is a dog eat dog world. They aren't hurt either by killing them, they are given a peaceful transition to their next life. Even if Soul Society is a sucky place to live, Hueco Mondo is worse if you're constantly being hunted.

  10. #8
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member steelwingcrash1's Avatar
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    Re: Is it okay to kill Hollows?

    Isn't killing a hollow the process of saving its soul and transferring it to Soul Society? However, we all know that Soul Society is not the peaceful heaven as we all know.

    So for me, if it means keeping the dangerous activity of the hollows in control, then it's fine to kill them.

  11. #9
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member BleachOD's Avatar
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    Re: Is it okay to kill Hollows?

    Hollows aren't evil it's wrong to kill them because you destroy the balance
    On the flip side of this, I think a few being erased by Quincy is also included in that balance.
    Only evil beings are evil and they go to hell
    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Roflkopt3r View Post
    I don't know if Kubo ever had an idea what would happen to the souls of an arrancar when it died, or even what happened to the consumed ones. I think all of this became rather inconsistent after the soul society arc, after all it wasn't included in the original design of Bleach.
    Kubo said that the "mixing of souls" isn't correct. They eat each other...and the one that is the strongest gains conciousness

    Like you eat your food and it becomes a part of you.

    This is explained in the GJ Flashback...

    GJ consumed his fraccion..he ate a part of them and although their evolution stopped. He didn't walk around with their souls inside of him

    Let's say for argument sake an Arrancar does have a bunch of souls stored inside him. I see no reason why those souls don't get cleansed as well and also re-enter the cycle of life, death, and rebirth.

    There is nothing that says that they do not. Death by Zanpakuto is cleansing of the souls, and has already been stated. So if they kill an Arrancar with many souls they should all be cleansed as well

    Not an oversight on Kubo's part at all if you ask me.

  12. #10
    Banned 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Is it okay to kill Hollows?

    For the Xth time, Hollows are purified by zanpaktou, not killed by them. After being purified the Hollows are sent to SS unless of course they were evil in life. In that case they go to hell. Rukia explained quite clearly why hollows have to be purified. Let us not open a thread and waste weeks of discussions for something any of you can look up in the early chapters.

    I get tired of explaining things to people: http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Hollow
    Last edited by ZERO PHOENIX; January 24, 2011 at 12:45 PM.

  13. #11
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member BleachOD's Avatar
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    Re: Is it okay to kill Hollows?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZERO PHOENIX View Post
    For the Xth time, Hollows are purified by zanpaktou, not killed by them. After being purified the Hollows are sent to SS unless of course they were evil in life. In that case they go to hell. Rukia explained quite clearly why hollows have to be purified. Let us not open a thread and waste weeks of discussions for something any of you can look up in the early chapters.

    I get tired of explaining things to people: http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Hollow
    Er...Quincy actually kill hollows. That's the reason they were wiped out. Ishida kills hollows all the time.

    Shinigami don't actually kill hollows but it's evident by Zomari's speech to Byakuya that Hollows don't see it that way

  14. #12
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member LanderZ's Avatar
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    Re: Is it okay to kill Hollows?

    Don't forget, little Hollows can survive on Reiryoku particles found in Soul Society or Hueco Mundo (the little lizards of HM, for one). These guys are not dangerous by themselves, and need not eat to survive, so killing them might be simple cruelty. However, Hollows that attack innocent people (dead or otherwise) need to be kept in check, too.

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  16. #13
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member BleachOD's Avatar
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    Re: Is it okay to kill Hollows?

    Quote Originally Posted by LanderZ View Post
    Don't forget, little Hollows can survive on Reiryoku particles found in Soul Society or Hueco Mundo (the little lizards of HM, for one). These guys are not dangerous by themselves, and need not eat to survive, so killing them might be simple cruelty. However, Hollows that attack innocent people (dead or otherwise) need to be kept in check, too.
    yeah they can survive on that

    They don't eat people for food. They long for their humanity, so they consume human souls in an attempt to get back what they loss

    When they evolve to Menos they no longer crave human souls, instead they crave the souls of Menos of the same class.and this makes them evolve after they consumed a certain number of hollows. When they evolve to adjuchas and Vastolord--they actually have to eat other hollows of the same class, that have the same strength, or they regress back to Gillian and then their evolution becomes halted because of the regression. After they become Menos...they don't crave humans only each other

    So killing them isn't cruel because they aren't being killed, merely purified of the sins they committed as hollow and then they can pass on to SS and re-enter the cycle of life-death-and rebirth

    Ishida kills hollows because he totally wipes the souls out when he kills them. So it's wrong in his case because he's not purifying them and it too can destroy the balance of souls the two world shares...

    other than that it's all about ethics, when it comes to "is it wrong to killing hollows"
    Last edited by BleachOD; January 26, 2011 at 04:05 AM.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member AlB's Avatar
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    Re: Is it okay to kill Hollows?

    purifying hollows (cutting them with Zan) is ok. but destroying them utterly (like quincy arrow or kido) is just criminal. Shinigami were absolutely right to exterminate Quincys. Imagine hundreds of guys like Uryuu using living souls as a practice dummies :

    if there's one thing I like about SS it's the fact that they promote purifying hollows rather than annihilating them

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member AlB's Avatar
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    Re: Is it okay to kill Hollows?

    Quote Originally Posted by BleachOD View Post
    Please pay attention to the topic sentence

    " Is it okay to kill Hollows?"

    No one specified if it was Shinigami or not. They did NOT say " Is it okay for Shinigami to kill Hollows? "

    That means that I can mention Quincy

    It's fine to make a argument but please try to remember that the topic sentence is what the thread is supposed to be about

    It's fine to be a fan but please compose yourself in the forums and get off your high horse (it feels good to say that to someone else for a change) and take note of what the main idea in the thread is before you make a counter argument . kthxbye


    P.S...despite it being "purification" and for good..Hollows don't have the same opinion. I.E Zomari's last stand
    I think Zommari's words bore metaphorical meaning. I think that under "killing" he meant extinguishing their existence as powerful creatures who had special abilities. Sure, Zommari's essence and soul will continue to exist, but no longer as a powerful member of an elite class of his society.

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