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Thread: Something interesting in Teresa's generation with AB

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Claymore Something interesting in Teresa's generation with AB

    http://www.mangareader.net/485-29335...hapter-24.html

    Chapter 24: Mark for Death 7 on page 3.

    This page spark a interesting note. Noel and Sophia never ever fought AB before because they don't even know what Priscilla was called. I guess the only one that knew was Irene since she called it an Awakened one. Teresa probably knew because she killed Rosemary.

    I'm just wondering how strong is Sophia and Noel are compare to Clare's generation. I mean even Rank 6 Miria fought AB several time.

    I'm wondering if they were just puppets for filler for stronger Claymore to rise in rank like Teresa did to Rosemary.
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; January 19, 2011 at 10:19 PM.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member HegemonKhan's Avatar
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    Re: Something interesting in Teresa's generation with AB

    Noel managed to slice off Awakened Priscilla's arm, she's certainly is NOT weak!

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    It seems that Claymores from Teresa's Era and earlier, rarely fought Awakeneds. This doesn't mean though that they (Sophia and Noel) are weak.

    don't forget how rank 2 Irene had so utterly pwned rank 4 Ophelia. Irene was on a completely different level then Ophelia, who was incredibly powerful herself (very possibly even more so than rank 3 Galatea)

    And then if we go back even further, we have Rafaela, who is certainly not weak either, in fact she was the most powerful Claymore in Clare's Era (excluding Soul Link Awakening Alicia), hehe. so older Era Claymores are NOT weaker. Audrey and Rachel leanred this the hard way against Abyssal One Riful.

    Also, it's my opinion that we really can't affirmly say that newer/younger Eras' Claymores are weaker than the older Eras' Claymores, just as well.

    Also, many people argue that Irene (and Sophia and Noel) were just freaking out because it was rank S Priscilla who had become an Awakened, not that they were merely seeing an Awakening.

    Though it does seem that Sophia and Noel had never encountered an Awakened, unless Irene was truly merely speaking to us the readers, telling us what an Awakened is, lol.

    However, even if this was their first time against an Awakened, and the ultimate Awakened Priscilla no less, Sophia and especially Noel showed no fear (once they engaged Awakened Priscilla), and Noel, even managed to briefly slice off Awakened Priscilla's arm. Irene and Sophia got pwned by Awakened Priscilla, but as I just mentioned, Noel performed the best, hehe. Which little human child Clare recognized too...

    -----------------------------------

    P.S.

    I just recently looked back over Teresa's chapters as well, and noticed this:

    Orsay talking about Teresa: ~"No, not the most powerful woman. Teresa is the most powerful CREATURE/MONSTER!"

    Creature/Monster is not saying that Teresa is merely the rank 1 Claymore of her Era, but the most powerful out of even the Awakeneds of her Era and possibly all Eras as well. Orsay is saying that Teresa is the most powerful, even more powerful than the "creatures/monsters" Isley, Riful, Luciela, and etc...
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; January 19, 2011 at 10:18 PM.
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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member wickedsmile's Avatar
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    Re: Something interesting in Teresa's generation with AB

    @ HK: Hmm.. That's an interesting interpretation of Orsay's statement. I took it to mean that as a half yoma/human, he did not consider Teresa to be human anymore. Of course, her strength and cold demeanor certainly influenced his thoughts in this regard.

    @Joe7133: That does seem like an oversight on Yagi's part. It would be difficult to imagine that a high ranking warrior would be ignorant of the existence of Awakened Beings. In Clare's time, even Deneve (rank 15) and Helen (rank 22) knew of them.

    I have another observation on Chapter 92, page 21. Clare reveals the Quicksword and from whom she learned the technique. Rafaela has a "faint smile" and says "....I see." I wonder if she realizes the irony in the matter. The person she executed managed to avenge her death, even from the after life.

    Then again, perhaps I'm reading too much into this and interjecting too much of my feelings on the matter.
    Last edited by wickedsmile; January 21, 2011 at 12:18 AM.
    I don't want to die. Even if that makeshift family was all nothing more than an illusion, doomed to someday fall apart. I so wish, so wish, it could have lasted the tiniest bit longer. - Norihiro Yagi

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    Re: Something interesting in Teresa's generation with AB

    a BC, especially Orsay, wouldn't care if Teresa was cruel and "inhuman". I feel he's clearly talking about Teresa's Power Level, as he is already doing so, talking about her title of "Faint Smile", which is all about her Power Level. And thus, saying CREATURE/MONSTER would obviously include being the most powerful out of the "creatures/monsters", or in other words, the Awakeneds. Teresa is the most powerful of all Claymores and Awakeneds alike.

    -----------------------------------------------------

    I don't find it surprising really. The Org would definately want to keep Awakeneds secret from their Claymores, and these older Claymores had much higher standards. Irene was shocked at Ophelia attacking what she thought was a "civilian/human", though it was Irene, lol.

    If the high standard Claymores of Teresa's Era and earlier found out about the Awakeneds, they'd really be upset at the Org, and that's the last thing the Org would want, lol.

    So, with the "lower standard" Claymores of Clare's Era, the Org didn't have to keep the existence of Awakeneds hidden, and also I'm sure the Claymores gradually found out about the Awakeneds and in a controlled way.

    It's also possible that the Awakeneds were more "tactful" in their "meals", to avoid causing the town to ask for a request to kill the Awakened feasting on their townsfolk, during Teresa's Era and earlier Eras. These Awakeneds probably went after humans traveling outside in the "country/forest-side".

    but this is indeed just my speculation. so, who knows why, and it is a bit mysterious, if it is true that only Teresa and Irene knew of Awakeneds' existence.

    --------------------------------------------------------

    yes, about the illusion of "Rafaela" too, it is a bit mysterious...

    the problem is, who's/what's the illusion of "Rafaela" ? :

    1. Rafaela's consciousness
    2. Teresa's consciousness
    3. Clare's own consciousness
    4. Destroyer's consciousness
    5. It alternatives between who/what ever (#'s 1-4), as they fight over control of the illusion of "Rafaela".

    Also... the illusion of "Rafaela" said that if the mind is destroyed in this mind-dream world by destroying their imaginary body in this mind-dream world, then their real body in the real physical world dies...

    well.... then we see the illusion of "Rafaela", who/what ever she is really, decapitate Clare! So, shouldn't Clare be dead... I'm baffled... The only way I can explain it, is that it was Clare's own mind producing a panicky "hypothetic vision" of herself dying, and not actually getting decapitated in that mind-dream world by that "real" illusion of "Rafaela".
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; January 20, 2011 at 03:29 AM.
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    "I hold the wolf by the ears, I am in a dangerous situation and dare not let go" -an old saying in Latin

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    Re: Something interesting in Teresa's generation with AB

    Quote Originally Posted by HegemonKhan View Post

    yes, about the illusion of "Rafaela" too, it is a bit mysterious...

    the problem is, who's/what's the illusion of "Rafaela" ? :

    1. Rafaela's consciousness
    2. Teresa's consciousness
    3. Clare's own consciousness
    4. Destroyer's consciousness
    5. It alternatives between who/what ever (#'s 1-4), as they fight over control of the illusion of "Rafaela".

    Also... the illusion of "Rafaela" said that if the mind is destroyed in this mind-dream world by destroying their imaginary body in this mind-dream world, then their real body in the real physical world dies...

    well.... then we see the illusion of "Rafaela", who/what ever she is really, decapitate Clare! So, shouldn't Clare be dead... I'm baffled... The only way I can explain it, is that it was Clare's own mind producing a panicky "hypothetic vision" of herself dying, and not actually getting decapitated in that mind-dream world by that "real" illusion of "Rafaela".
    Didn't Renee/Rune get her consciousness torn apart by the Destroyer (in Ch.83/84) as well, yet there didn't seem to be much adverse effect from that either. The part with Clare getting decapitated confused me as well. I just read it again and I still don't get how she can be killed once, in mental combat, and then come back again. I guess she must of got a 1-up before the fight started.

    As for what Orsay said, I agree with wickedsmile. I think that he was just correcting his misstatement that she was still a human/woman. Although, I do believe that Teresa was the most powerful being at the time and most probably currently as well. I think Orsay just wasn't privy to that knowledge. It would mean that they had full knowledge of how strong each AO, plus an accurate reading of Teresa's power (even though she rarely released even 10%). Further, If he really thought she was all-powerful I doubt the Org would have thought that 2-5 would be enough when they go for Teresa's head. Hell they probably would have just left her alone and treated her like an AO. Also, in the special, Teresa uses the argument that Rosemary couldn't have awakened or else she wouldn't be alive. Orsay seems to believe her lie. Lastly, in Chapter 62 p 19 Rubel says that Alicia is the strongest number 1 in the annals. While he was wrong about this I think that the Org probably actually believes that to be true.

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    Re: Something interesting in Teresa's generation with AB

    I don't think the Organization knew how powerful Teresa is. Even Irene who fought side by side with Teresa in the past, didn't know until the Priscilla fight. Teresa was a monster of the making, but Clare woke up the humanity in her and she got beheaded for it.

    Maybe Priscilla might be stronger or just as strong as Teresa if given time. You can see that with Clare and Miria. They grew pretty powerful over the 7year in hiding. At least a rank 1 or 2, just because Miria made short work of the current rank 3/5 and the rest of the claymore protecting the Organization.

    Alicia/Beth are quite strong but I doubt they are stronger then Teresa/Priscilla. If I was to give a number from 1-10, I'll give Alicia/Beth an 7 compare to 10 for Teresa/Priscilla. I would place the other 3 AO's around 5-6. (Note: I'm stating this when they were Claymore, not as an Awakened Being.)
    Last edited by Joe7133; January 21, 2011 at 09:08 AM.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member wickedsmile's Avatar
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    Re: Something interesting in Teresa's generation with AB

    I believe that the Organization thought Priscilla would act as the "trump card" as Rubel probably would have said. If I recall from the text, she fights without releasing Youki, similar to what Teresa does, although the latter can actually sense its flows. I don't know if Priscilla had that ability as well. Her lack of Youki release would make her the perfect warrior against Teresa who "reads" Youki to anticipate her opponent's moves.

    It's amazing that Teresa actually kept up with Priscilla, since she admitted at their first encounter that she could not feel Priscilla's presence. There's probably a host of other abilities that Teresa kept from her fellow warriors and from the Organization. The Special edition on Teresa and some of the events during "Marked for Death" most likely indicate that she did hide quite a bit from the Organization. Irene did mention to Clare that Teresa was a private individual that kept to herself, although that could be said of the other warriors as well.

    I went through the chapters so fast to find out what happened next, after watching the anime. It seems that I've missed quite a few good tid bits that really enriches the storyline, not only in the graphics but also in the text as well. It's got to be good stuff when you could read something over again and never find it tiresome, and to the contrary, quite refreshing. Thanks to all for pointing out the finer details in Claymore.
    I don't want to die. Even if that makeshift family was all nothing more than an illusion, doomed to someday fall apart. I so wish, so wish, it could have lasted the tiniest bit longer. - Norihiro Yagi

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    Re: Something interesting in Teresa's generation with AB

    Here's the thing.

    Rubel says that Alicia can beat Priscilla near the beginning of the manga.

    However, we learn later on that it takes ages for Alicia just to make it to Riful's level. Does that count as a retcon?

    This page
    is a complete lie as Alicia is not even close to being the strongest #1 ever.

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    Re: Something interesting in Teresa's generation with AB

    I always felt that Rubel was being sarcastic/scoffing towards Alicia+Beth 's supposedly top/greatest power on the island when he talked about them (and Priscilla) to Clare way back in the early manga.

    my theory is that Alicia+Beth were the Organization's "best creations" (creations using the Soul Link to Awaken), and that Rubel was laughing and mocking this belief of the Organization, laughing at how inferior were the Organization's Alicia+Beth, saying "why my Priscilla all by herself, easily out powers them".... "Heroes, bah, but will you my Clare-pet-experiment, rise to merely the weak level of Alicia+Beth, let alone to rivalling my Priscilla, oh I hope you will, I hope you'll become even more powerful than Priscilla, yes, my Clare, push yourself and show me what you can do, become an even more powerful weapon of mine than Priscilla is!"

    also that link you gave with Galatea... I think this has a lot of implications...

    1. Rubel was allowing Galatea to see the weakness-flaw-vulnerability of Alicia+Beth+Soul Link, should he need her or the Ghosts to kill Alicia+Beth (though later on Priscilla did that already "accidentally for Rubel", lol), and/or the later TATs... Galatea might have briefed Miria about Alicia+Beth, which helped prepare her for when she battled the TATs... or maybe not.. lol

    -Is Galatea the "Traitor" secretly working for Rubel, pretending to be the Ghosts' ally... but secretly she's going to do what Rubel wanted... and help complete the "Blob of 3" into the ultimate weapon that Rafaela had failed to complete, only half-merging only creating the Destroyer, instead of the ultimate being/weapon that Rubel was trying to have to create with fusing with Luciela... but now this ultimate being/weapon will incorporate CLare+TEresa+Priscilla as well as Rafaela+Luciela (the Destroyer). hehe

    -why did Galatea go to Rabona... why does she "love" Rabona and not some other town... maybe Galatea doesn't "love" Rabona at all, maybe she was infiltrating Rabona for Rubel and/or using it as a front to hide her "traitorous intent" towards the Ghosts, as she's possibly secretly working for Rubel... Rabona is a good place to protect her from both the Organization and the Ghosts... so that she can carry out Rubel's wishes...

    -Actually... now that I'm thinking about it... the stuff that surrounds Galatea... is indeed very suspicious... all of her interaction with the Ghosts and stuff... *possibly*...

    2. Rubel was allowing Galatea to see how the Soul Link works, so that maybe she could later use the Soul Link... for whatever purpose...

    3. obviously Rubel knew it would traumatize Galatea, with seeing how cruelly/inhumanly they had conditioned Alicia+Beth, knowing that it would cause her to dissert on her own, so she's not executed by the Org, and it keeps Rubel safe from suspicion in being involved in Galatea's flight... "I saved Galatea, without putting my own neck on the line, hehe"

    ------------------------------------------------

    also, that link you gave, is one of the sources that supports Rubel being the leader of the Organization... Rubel ofen talks about how or what the Organization will do, as if he's the leader of it, though he does so in a third person way to hide that he's the leader who makes the decisions of what the Org does...

    as we now learn that possibly (if you favor this interpretation of ch 113) indeed Rubel is the only one to know about Priscilla and Priscilla's power level, so Rubel is basically saying...

    "Should my Priscilla pet-experiment-weapon become a threat to the Organization/Me-Rubel, than I'll use the full power at my disposal of the Org or beyond (the Ghosts, and/or specifically Clare+Teresa my trump card who hates Priscilla and who has the only greater source of power than Priscilla inside of her, Teresa) to eliminate Priscilla"
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; April 17, 2011 at 01:56 PM.

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    Re: Something interesting in Teresa's generation with AB

    The whole situation with Rubel and Galatea has always been suspicious. Especially how Rubel can find a claymore (Rafaela) that supposedly can't be found without the help of an Eye.

    Taking chapter 113 into account, Rubel needs to have had an accomplice to help him make Priscilla. Dae doesn't seem to show that much surprise at seeing Rubel in his lab, so it could very well be that Dae is Rubel's co-conspirator.

    Rubel has shielded Galatea from the Organization's wrath several times, so who knows.

    Rubel's goal could very well be to create a creature that isn't a crazed AB, which retains its human form. At some point, Clare will regain a body and Priscilla will be released, and seeing as Yagi didn't have Clare awaken when first fighting Priscilla, I find it unlikely that Clare will ever awaken again. Clare might just become Priscilla.

    I thin that Rubel was happy with Teresa, but wanted to see if he could create something better than Teresa or if he could push Teresa to new heights by creating Priscilla. I've always very much doubted that the bandits that Teresa encountered were just "random bandits." There's never another instance where bandits are seen. Supposedly, slavers captured Raki and conveniently brought him to the North where the battle was taking place, but the slavers are never seen, and it's never clear whether the people who did bring him to the North weren't paid to do that. Rubel could easily have paid those bandits to kill the villagers, knowing that Teresa would snap and kill them, providing him with a chance to test her with Priscilla.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member HegemonKhan's Avatar
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    Re: Something interesting in Teresa's generation with AB

    What is interesting...

    How DID Rubel KNOW that Raki was capatured by the Slave Traders and taken to Alphonse ?

    (and than it just happens that Raki and Priscilla meet... yes, I think Rubel orchestrated all of this, ah yes the madness, the extremeness of it... maybe it just might turn out to be true... muhahaha!)

    personally, I think Rubel captured Raki himself, using Raki as "leverage" to get Clare to go to Alphonse (not knowing.. for once, lol... that Clare was already planning to go to Alphonse to kill Priscilla which she had "just" got this info from Riful), and that the "Slave Traders" may very well be a public euphenism/code word for the BC Retrieval Unit members, just as "Voracious Eater" is used as the public euphenism/code word for Awakeneds.

    ----------------------------------------------------

    you might be interested in this:

    I had entertained that Rig (the bandit who harrasses Teresa+Human Clare) was actually a NY, ordered by the Org (or Rubel) to infiltrate the human bandits, to get Teresa to kill humans, to give the BCs (or Rubel) a justification for seeking Teresa's death (as Teresa was jsut too dangerous for the BCs... or Rubel didn't have her cooperation alive... so he'd get her cooperation dead... and maybe make an even more powerful weapon in implanting her flesh into Human Clare... hehe).

    if you're interested, go back and look at the chapters+pages with Rig, and look at one of the pics of his face... it looks almost like a NY's !!!
    (I forgot where exactly, maybe it's when Teresa gives her "freedom speech", hehe)

    Also, WHY was Rig sooo interested in Human Clare and Teresa anyways... ???
    (Remember that Human Clare was "desired/targeted... or ordered to target" already by two NYs. And if Rig is a NY, that'd be the 3rd NY to target/desire/be interested in Human Clare...

    Also, is Rig's interesting comment about why he hates Teresa/Claymores:

    ~"I hate that superior look you give me!!!"

    this could be simply a comment by him as a human...

    or... he could very well be a NY, and thus as a NY, he HATES how Claymores think they are "better, superior, and good" compared to the "worse, inferior, and evil" Yomas...

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    Re: Something interesting in Teresa's generation with AB

    Would be very exciting to see Rubel transform into something never seen before with crazy power. He'd be like, "You think Priscilla is powerful, I'm a GOD!!!" You just never know.

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    Re: Something interesting in Teresa's generation with AB

    HK, I'm pretty sure that Teresa would be able to detect if Rig were a NY.

    I'd find it more likely that Rubel just paid Rig to attack the village.

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    Re: Something interesting in Teresa's generation with AB

    that's true, Teresa would probably be able to sense him, unless he's on the pills, and than only if Teresa can't sense someone on the pills...

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    Re: Something interesting in Teresa's generation with AB

    Quote Originally Posted by HegemonKhan View Post
    --------------------------------------------------------

    yes, about the illusion of "Rafaela" too, it is a bit mysterious...

    the problem is, who's/what's the illusion of "Rafaela" ? :

    1. Rafaela's consciousness
    2. Teresa's consciousness
    3. Clare's own consciousness
    4. Destroyer's consciousness
    5. It alternatives between who/what ever (#'s 1-4), as they fight over control of the illusion of "Rafaela".

    Also... the illusion of "Rafaela" said that if the mind is destroyed in this mind-dream world by destroying their imaginary body in this mind-dream world, then their real body in the real physical world dies...

    well.... then we see the illusion of "Rafaela", who/what ever she is really, decapitate Clare! So, shouldn't Clare be dead... I'm baffled... The only way I can explain it, is that it was Clare's own mind producing a panicky "hypothetic vision" of herself dying, and not actually getting decapitated in that mind-dream world by that "real" illusion of "Rafaela".
    I sort of hate to bring this up, but, couldn't the inspiriation from this come from "The Empire Striked Back" where Luke fights Darth Vader in the cave and gets decapitated symbolically? Luke didn't actually die and neither apparently did Clare in her encounter with Rafaela. Maybe that was to teach Clare something? The parallels is there but I may be stretching it a bit.

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