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Thread: PoT and SPoT Technique Tier List

  1. #16
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    Re: PoT and NPot Moves Tier List

    Quote Originally Posted by Bowser View Post
    No, In and Closed Eyes can't break out of Yips. You even said it yourself, it "heightens" other senses - Yips kills those senses.
    This is most likely correct.

    Closed Eyes counter:
    -Saiki
    -Illusion
    -maybe KnS, not sure about that one
    -maybe Gen'U Yume Utsutsu, not sure here either

    In counters:
    -Saiki

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Fuji Shusuke's Avatar
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    Re: PoT and NPot Moves Tier List

    Yips works by giving the opponent that all of their balls are useless and returning the ball becomes frightening. It first starts off as a series of image flashes in their head when they return the ball, telling them its useless. By closing your eyes, images don't come to you because you originally didn't see the ball being returned. Am I making sense? Basically what I'm saying is: Can't see ball = No images in head = Can't seal sense = Other senses heightened = Pwnage
    "Sorry, but I never lose to the same opponent twice." - Fuji

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    Re: PoT and NPot Moves Tier List

    No, Yuki would still trump Fuji. Ball would still get returned anyway. You eventually feel you can't win. You lose your touch first anwyay. Hell Closed Eyes shouldn't be that high to be fair. World of Ice should be right near the top as well.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Fuji Shusuke's Avatar
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    Re: PoT and NPot Moves Tier List

    Many changes to Rank S:
    - Closed Eyes higher than Shadow
    - Samurai Drive higher than Super Ultra Great (etc lol)
    - Tannhausser Serve moved down
    - World of Ice higher than Tannhauser


    Rank B ordered. There is probably a large amount of errors in Rank B. Please point them out.
    Last edited by Fuji Shusuke; January 25, 2011 at 12:31 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    "Sorry, but I never lose to the same opponent twice." - Fuji

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    Re: PoT and NPot Moves Tier List

    Yama Arashi, Tezuka Zone and World of Ice should be at the top of S, maybe even bottom of SS.
    Closed Eyes and In should move down further, they just aren't that useful outside of specific situations, personally I'd put CE just Bible Tennis and In belwow Fuu or something.
    Maybe remove the specific parts and add FuuRinKaZan as a whole instead, it's even described as one technique by Inui (Link), around where Ka currently is would be good I think.
    You have Kite's Shukuchihou listed twice, I'd remove the higher one.
    Angel Mode should go way up, if the current theories are correct, it makes Akaya a second court player.
    What's the difference between Devil Mode and Super Devil Mode? Is the former Bloodshot Mode?
    Cut Serve could go up a bit, either top of B or in the lower half of A.
    Magic Volley has to go up a lot, at least above Golf Swing.

    That's everything for now.

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    Re: PoT and NPot Moves Tier List

    Quote Originally Posted by chaosmaster1991 View Post
    This is most likely correct.

    Closed Eyes counter:
    -Saiki
    -Illusion
    -maybe KnS, not sure about that one
    -maybe Gen'U Yume Utsutsu, not sure here either

    In counters:
    -Saiki
    I'd say CE definitely counters GUYU, since GUYU is completely predicated on creating an illusion of the ball.

    I agree that TZ and World of Ice should be in SS. And I also agree the Magic Volley definitely needs to be a lot higher. While the pole shot isn't super difficult to return, Tight Rope Walking is. How can you return a shot that never DOESN'T touch the net without touching the net with your racket? It is technically possible, but ridiculously difficult.

    And I don't see why Zero-Shiki Serve and Tannhäuser Serve aren't both at the same position, since they are technically the same thing, just different directions.

    Also, Houo Gaeshi should also probably be higher than it is. While I think Hakuryu is a better technique, it's situational while Houo Gaeshi isn't. That's the only reason that I don't think both should be moved higher.

  7. #22
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted FrostyMouse's Avatar
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    Re: PoT and NPot Moves Tier List

    Quote Originally Posted by FujiNumberOne View Post
    I'd say CE definitely counters GUYU, since GUYU is completely predicated on creating an illusion of the ball.

    I agree that TZ and World of Ice should be in SS. And I also agree the Magic Volley definitely needs to be a lot higher. While the pole shot isn't super difficult to return, Tight Rope Walking is. How can you return a shot that never DOESN'T touch the net without touching the net with your racket? It is technically possible, but ridiculously difficult.
    I'd put TZone and WoI (KnS, if you prefer) above In, and as the best two moves, respectively, in the S tier.

    Considering that Closed Eyes can at the very least counter Saiki, shouldn't it be in the SS tier? I personally think that Closed Eyes should move above Niou's Illusion, but that's as far as I'd put it. Even though Closed Eyes can counter Saiki, Saiki's more versatile than Closed Eyes, so Saiki's still a better move.

    Quote Originally Posted by FujiNumberOne View Post
    And I don't see why Zero-Shiki Serve and Tannhäuser Serve aren't both at the same position, since they are technically the same thing, just different directions.

    Also, Houo Gaeshi should also probably be higher than it is. While I think Hakuryu is a better technique, it's situational while Houo Gaeshi isn't. That's the only reason that I don't think both should be moved higher.
    Zero-Shiki Serve can't be returned except by plothax as it never bounces; the second it lands it just rolls backwards to a halt without ever leaving the gorund. Tannhauser Serve can be returned as long as you understand how to return it; when Ryoma uses the Tannhauser Serve against Atobe, Atobe returns it. Tannhauser Serve works along the same principle as Cool Drive and Tsubame/Hohou Gaeshi. It lands and then hovers imperceptibly above the ground all the way until the backstop.

    Zero-Shiki Serve is a significantly better move than Tannhauser Serve.

    I honestly think that a lot of the Rank S moves need to be reordered, but it's all too subjective. For example, I think that Neo-Scud Serve and Waterfall are way too highly ranked. I also believe that Shiraishi's Bible and the evolved Triple Counters should be above Laser Beam and Cool Drive.

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    Re: PoT and NPot Moves Tier List

    Quote Originally Posted by FujiNumberOne View Post
    I'd say CE definitely counters GUYU, since GUYU is completely predicated on creating an illusion of the ball.
    Well, I brought CE up as a counter when the chapter was first discussed, but quite a few people disagreed with me iirc, so I only listed it as possible counter. Personally, I think it does counter GUYU.

    Quote Originally Posted by FujiNumberOne View Post
    I agree that TZ and World of Ice should be in SS. And I also agree the Magic Volley definitely needs to be a lot higher. While the pole shot isn't super difficult to return, Tight Rope Walking is. How can you return a shot that never DOESN'T touch the net without touching the net with your racket? It is technically possible, but ridiculously difficult.
    I believe you're talking about Myougi here and not Magic Volley.

    Quote Originally Posted by FujiNumberOne View Post
    And I don't see why Zero-Shiki Serve and Tannhäuser Serve aren't both at the same position, since they are technically the same thing, just different directions.
    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    Zero-Shiki Serve can't be returned except by plothax as it never bounces; the second it lands it just rolls backwards to a halt without ever leaving the gorund. Tannhauser Serve can be returned as long as you understand how to return it; when Ryoma uses the Tannhauser Serve against Atobe, Atobe returns it. Tannhauser Serve works along the same principle as Cool Drive and Tsubame/Hohou Gaeshi. It lands and then hovers imperceptibly above the ground all the way until the backstop.

    Zero-Shiki Serve is a significantly better move than Tannhauser Serve.
    ^This

    Up to this point, only Sanada returned ZSS, but Atobe and Hiyoshi both returned THS, and Tachibana has shown that he could probably do it by returning Tsubame Gaeshi after it bounced.

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    Considering that Closed Eyes can at the very least counter Saiki, shouldn't it be in the SS tier? I personally think that Closed Eyes should move above Niou's Illusion, but that's as far as I'd put it. Even though Closed Eyes can counter Saiki, Saiki's more versatile than Closed Eyes, so Saiki's still a better move.
    The problem I have with CE in SS, is that it counters 3-4 moves and is pretty much useless outside of that. I don't think that's worthy of SS tier tbh.

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    I honestly think that a lot of the Rank S moves need to be reordered, but it's all too subjective. For example, I think that Neo-Scud Serve and Waterfall are way too highly ranked. I also believe that Shiraishi's Bible and the evolved Triple Counters should be above Laser Beam and Cool Drive.
    I'll try to throw something together later today when you guys don't mind.

  9. #24
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted FrostyMouse's Avatar
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    Re: PoT and NPot Moves Tier List

    Quote Originally Posted by chaosmaster1991 View Post
    The problem I have with CE in SS, is that it counters 3-4 moves and is pretty much useless outside of that. I don't think that's worthy of SS tier tbh.
    It doesn't just counter 3-4 moves. Remember the Fuji vs Kirihara match? For a time, until Kirihara started dragging his racket along the ground to distract Fuji, Kirihara couldn't get a single point off of Fuji because he couldn't predict where Fuji would be. CE also has regular uses in matches; I don't understand why he didn't use CE against Shiraishi.

    Quote Originally Posted by chaosmaster1991 View Post
    I'll try to throw something together later today when you guys don't mind.
    All right.
    Last edited by FrostyMouse; April 24, 2011 at 06:10 PM.

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    Re: PoT and NPot Moves Tier List

    Hmm, are we sure that THS bounces? I thought it didn't bounce at all, and the only way that Atobe returned it is by hitting it at the instant the serve hit the ground. I might be wrong though. I was a little fuzzy on the explanation they gave.

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    Re: PoT and NPot Moves Tier List

    Quote Originally Posted by FujiNumberOne View Post
    Hmm, are we sure that THS bounces? I thought it didn't bounce at all, and the only way that Atobe returned it is by hitting it at the instant the serve hit the ground. I might be wrong though. I was a little fuzzy on the explanation they gave.
    Quote Quote:
    chaosmaster1991 (20:42:48): http://read.mangashare.com/Prince-of...6/page006.html
    considering that both Echizen and Atobe can hit these kind of shots constantly, was Sanada wrong with this explantion?
    Sai the Shaman (20:43:47): no
    Sai the Shaman (20:43:56): it just shows the amount of skill ryoma and atobe have
    chaosmaster1991 (20:45:26): I see... but the ball does bounce, yes? it's not like Zero Shiki Drop/Serve where there's no bounce at all?
    Sai the Shaman (20:46:59): supposedly, there is no real bounce, but unlike zeroshiki it shoots forward at incredible pace so it's still not impossible to return
    Sai the Shaman (20:47:06): you can use your racket to scoop it
    Sai the Shaman (20:47:13): which is what I assume yukimura did
    chaosmaster1991 (20:47:47): and that's the same Atobe's Front Foot Hop does I take it?
    Sai the Shaman (20:48:18): for the most part. the point of the front foot hop was to provide extra puch and lift
    chaosmaster1991 (20:51:08): so Yukimura is the only one that can return these kind of shots from the baseline and everyone else has to use a variation of a rising shot?
    Sai the Shaman (20:51:26): possibly
    chaosmaster1991 (20:51:42): great, do you mind me copypasting this?
    Sai the Shaman (20:51:48): if you want
    Sai the Shaman (20:51:49): lol
    chaosmaster1991 (20:51:51): thanks
    Sai the Shaman (20:52:03): yukimura uses a variation of a rising too
    chaosmaster1991 (20:52:22): well yes, but everyone else hit the ball right after it bounced
    Sai the Shaman (20:52:31): yeah
    Sai the Shaman (20:53:25): the theory here is that yuki let it roll which negates the over spin factor (see vs. Tanishi) and he has the racket control to let the ball roll onto his racket and then push from there back over
    chaosmaster1991 (20:53:44): ic
    This applies to all of COOL Drive, Tannhauser Serve, Shitsu e no Fugue, Tsubame Gaeshi and Houou Gaeshi, though the former three seem to have more power than Fuji's counters, making it much harder to hit them before they touch the ground (see what happened to Tanishi as reference).


    Spoiler show


    That's what I would suggest for starters. Note that the techniques are not ordered within the tiers, I think it'd be better to agree on tiers first and discuss specific positions afterwards.
    Last edited by Kaoz; April 25, 2011 at 06:50 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted FrostyMouse's Avatar
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    Re: PoT and NPot Moves Tier List

    A few things about your list of techniques.

    Echizen uses Saiki for one point, so that counts as him being able to use it.

    http://somemanga.com/alt/Prince_of_Tennis/373/om/16/
    http://somemanga.com/alt/Prince_of_Tennis/374/om/1/

    He uses the Zero-Shiki Drop Shot on his own as well.

    http://somemanga.com/alt/Prince_of_Tennis/154/om/12/
    http://somemanga.com/alt/Prince_of_Tennis/154/om/13/

    Kabaji and Niou don't actually use Muga, they just use Hyakuren, and Hyakuren and Saiki, respectively. You can say that Kabaji actually learns how to use Hyakuren, whereas it's only Niou's Illusion that grants him the ability to use Hyakuren and Saiki. I think it's doubtful that Niou could use Hyakuren or Saiki without using an Illusion of a player who can use them.

    Chitose can use Moujuu no Aura, as he does when he plays doubles with Tachibana against Washio/Suzuki.

    Apart from a few mentions on who actually performs the technique, I only have one or two comments. I don't think that Echizen should be credited as being able to use the technique if it's only when he's using Muga. For example, Echizen uses Tannhauser Serve while using Muga, but he can't naturally.

    Aside from that, I think that Gen'U Yume Utsutsu and Closed Eyes should be in the S Tier.

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    Re: PoT and NPot Moves Tier List

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    A few things about your list of techniques.

    Echizen uses Saiki for one point, so that counts as him being able to use it.

    http://somemanga.com/alt/Prince_of_Tennis/373/om/16/
    http://somemanga.com/alt/Prince_of_Tennis/374/om/1/

    He uses the Zero-Shiki Drop Shot on his own as well.

    http://somemanga.com/alt/Prince_of_Tennis/154/om/12/
    http://somemanga.com/alt/Prince_of_Tennis/154/om/13/
    Added.

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    Kabaji and Niou don't actually use Muga, they just use Hyakuren, and Hyakuren and Saiki, respectively. You can say that Kabaji actually learns how to use Hyakuren, whereas it's only Niou's Illusion that grants him the ability to use Hyakuren and Saiki. I think it's doubtful that Niou could use Hyakuren or Saiki without using an Illusion of a player who can use them.
    http://translations.shamannet.com/?p=296

    Quote Quote:
    Is this Muga no Kyouchi, or is it…?

    Niou’s “Illusion” and Kabaji’s “Copy” can reproduce Muga. However, whether this is really the attainment of “Muga no Kyouchi” is heavily argued.
    I'll put (?) behind their names for now.

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    Chitose can use Moujuu no Aura, as he does when he plays doubles with Tachibana against Washio/Suzuki.
    I didn't add Chitose for Moujuu because I'm not sure whether he can use the actual aura and not just the synchro form. I don't mind adding him though.

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    Apart from a few mentions on who actually performs the technique, I only have one or two comments. I don't think that Echizen should be credited as being able to use the technique if it's only when he's using Muga. For example, Echizen uses Tannhauser Serve while using Muga, but he can't naturally.
    Anyone disagrees with this?

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    Aside from that, I think that Gen'U Yume Utsutsu and Closed Eyes should be in the S Tier.
    Not sure, as GUYU only works against high level players that can anticipate the next shot, no comment on CE for now.

  14. #29
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted FrostyMouse's Avatar
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    Re: PoT and NPot Moves Tier List

    Quote Originally Posted by chaosmaster1991 View Post
    http://translations.shamannet.com/?p=296

    I'll put (?) behind their names for now.
    I'd forgotten that I'd seen that before...I'd seen that page once when I was looking through something.

    Well, technically, as PoHW, PoGW, and TnK are doors "inside Muga," they are Muga, and this panel supports that.

    So, I suppose it's fair to say that the whole list can use Muga. Although, I'd be more apt to put a (?) by Niou and Kabaji's names though.

    So, I'd put it this way, I guess.

    Muga no Kyouichi: Echizen, Tezuka, Yukimura, Sanada, Kirihara, Chitose, Nanjirou, Kabaji (?), Niou (?)

    Also, Nanjirou can use TnK.

    Quote Originally Posted by chaosmaster1991 View Post
    I didn't add Chitose for Moujuu because I'm not sure whether he can use the actual aura and not just the synchro form. I don't mind adding him though.
    Well, Kamio and Ishida Tetsu just use the synchro form, so, and you credited them. :P

    Quote Originally Posted by chaosmaster1991 View Post
    Anyone disagrees with this?
    Interestingly though, Echizen is able to just copy Matsudaira Chikao's Magnum Serve, who appears to be Matsudaira Chikahiko's younger brother or something, without the use of any Muga or previous experience.

    http://somemanga.com/manga/New_Prince_of_Tennis/2/14/
    http://somemanga.com/manga/New_Prince_of_Tennis/2/19/
    http://somemanga.com/manga/New_Prince_of_Tennis/2/20/
    http://somemanga.com/manga/New_Prince_of_Tennis/2/21/

    Magnum Serve isn't even on the B Tier list, but I would say that Magnum Serve counts as one of Echizen's moves.

    Quote Originally Posted by chaosmaster1991 View Post
    Not sure, as GUYU only works against high level players that can anticipate the next shot, no comment on CE for now.
    You have a point there.
    Last edited by FrostyMouse; April 25, 2011 at 05:31 PM. Reason: Failing

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    Re: PoT and NPot Moves Tier List

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    Well, Kamio and Ishida Tetsu just use the synchro form, so, and you credited them. :P
    >_> You have a point there. Should there be a seperate entry for Moujuu Synchro then?

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    Interestingly though, Echizen is able to just copy Matsudaira Chikao's Magnum Serve, who appears to be Matsudaira Chikahiko's younger brother or something, without the use of any Muga or previous experience.

    Magnum Serve isn't even on the B Tier list, but I would say that Magnum Serve counts as one of Echizen's moves.
    Echizen copied other lower level techniques without Muga before, so that's not really a suprise.

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