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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
I feel like you agree with me but are still arguing lol. My point is not that they are equal, my point is that the difference between luffy and zoro and between zoro and sanji is very small which I think is also the point you are making. What I don't agree with is the notion that luffy can be significantly stronger than zoro or that zoro can be significantly stronger than sanji. IMO if luffy were to fight zoro or zoro were to fight sanji the scenarios would be those of long, drawn out fights which luffy and zoro would win respectively with only a small margin in their favor, perhaps kinda like how luffy has generally won his fights against most primary antagonists (except hodi or ceasar who were plain weak).
Last edited by Der Namenlose; September 03, 2013 at 10:57 AM.
What your wrote last week sounds very different from these words though. Oo
Last edited by Schabrak; September 03, 2013 at 11:39 AM.
I already said that it might have been an exaggeration -- although having half of someone's power in OP's power scale is not neccessarily to be far weaker, as you might have noticed from Kaku and Lucci, who were able to do similar things in spite of their levels of doriki --, so I'm afraid your comment is quite meaningless now, isn't it? As for the drama, you were the one who created it. I only argued against their comments, the same thing you did against mine. There's no difference at all in our atittudes, except for the fact that you seem to believe arguments are wrong, even though you keep taking part in them. Furthermore, why did you continue the discussion if you believed things were resolved when I said it might have been an exaggeration? That's very difficult to understand, indeed.
Last edited by Der Namenlose; September 03, 2013 at 12:13 PM.
Because you kept pressing on Zoro always being weaker, it's all there in our posts. I demanded something substanstial to be able to judge Zoro from the last couple years, but all you got was the doriki argument from nearly ten years ago and DC mentioning that only the greatest man might become Pirakte King[no suprise from me]. That's that and I don't see a reason to change my opinion that he could be just as strong until Oda or you deliver something to argue with.
Small, big, I'm still waiting for you to present me something showing that Zoro is not capable of being so or rather is not so strong at the moment, you won't, so I wait until we get something worthy of discussion.
I didn't write trolling Mr.Asashi for fun, it's meant that way. He trolled you into replying back without him every replying to your post.
Last edited by Schabrak; September 03, 2013 at 12:33 PM.
Weaker, but not far weaker. It's also in my posts, too I still believe that's the highest possibility, and I exposed why I think that way. You are free to agree/disagree and argue/not argue, but I believe I was sufficiently clear about what I said and what changed in my opinion. Just as I said:
I would actually argue the difference between lucci and kaku/jyabura was indeed shown to be significant. If the point is made that the CP9 fights showed luffy, zoro and sanji to be relatively close then the case necessarily has to be that lucci was well stronger than kaku and jyabura. The main reason to think zoro and sanji are close to luffy is just how comfortable their victories against kaku and jyabura were while the fights against lucci was extremely close. Zoro and Sanji fought with transformed kaku and jyabura evenly. Is it that unreasonable to think transformed kaku and jyabyra would be able to fight roughly on base lucci's level? IMO not. In turn luffy fought human lucci evenly and needed gear 2 to match hybrid lucci.
This is another point of view, I believe only the current Luffy and Zoro sometime in the future (future Zoro) have CoC, Zoro might take the same position as the Dark King version of the SH, the other besides Sanji might know how to use haki in the futue but all of them won't attain the CoC at all.
I think Luffy's either stronger or equal to Zoro in power, who's likely stronger than Sanji. Nothing, to me, has indicated otherwise. Though Zoro would have lost to Lucci due to not being rubber, he also has a way around Luffy's gomu gomu with his swords. I see no reason to believe that Zoro isn't equal or less strong by a miniscule margin, to be honest.
I hope this isn't your argument.
But Gear2!Luffy, Hybrid!Lucci, Asura!Zoro, Diable!Sanji were all in a similar tier with Luffy being the strongest, since if you saw when they took at the Pacifista back at Sabaody the 3 of them used some epic moves there but all 3 of their moves did pretty much the same damaging effect, or at least that was implied at the time.
Luffy will always be stronger than Zorro and at no point will they be fully equal. That's the whole point of Zorros character. If Luffy wouldn't be stronger than him, Zorro wouldn't accept him as his Captain. Also you have to compare them on two different views. A direct 1on1 would be much closer between the two (Luffy would still win, as he can surpass Zorros blades with his Haki). If you just compare their abilities without them fighting the King's disposition alone is such a huge trump, anyways.
The Monster trio was always arragend in the following order: Luffy, Zorro, Sanji. While Zorro and Sanji still compete for number 2 on many occasions, Zorro still had a slight egde so far. Luffy is the undisputed captain. That's the whole point of the manga, after all.
Lucci was the strongest of the CP9 and the difference from 2200 to 4000 is quite a bit. Arguably this was just to show, that there always is a difference between the leader/captain of a crew and ... the crew. That's why he's the strongest after all. The only exception i can think of on the fly is Buggy, for various reasons.
So atleast I believe Luffy actually can stand his ground vs BB, also he should be able to fight Big Mom on par, in case she doenst have some wierdass df.
Regarding Zoro and Shanks comparison, since they are both swordsmen. Shanks, ofcourse, is higher tier, but in terms of pure power in swordsmen match I believe Zoro won't go down too fast, which makes him able to stand his ground.
In the same post you qouted I told what I think about comparings of characters in OP. There will be different results for same battles applying different situations.
All I wanted to say is that Zoro and Luffy are top class fighters now, even though they might be below Admirals and Yonkos, but still they do have powers and abilities to stand their ground fighting strongest opponents.