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Thread: Romance & Society in Naruto <3

  1. #781
    MH's Best Reviewer MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Jammin's Avatar
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    Re: Romance (and society) in Naruto

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessie View Post
    I understand. He used Ino the same way during the Kage Summit Arc when she cried over Sasuke and apparently threatened to even kill over him. Basically he sacrificed her character to tie Sasuke to the K11 beyond Team 7. It was ridiculous then and even more ridiculous now.

    But Kishi cannot pretend she is the same as Sakura and Karin. I can at least understand their love for him, as silly as it may be. They interacted with him. They were by his side. They know him. Sasuke somewhat acknowledged them. Hell, plenty of my friends love jerks. So I get it. But Ino hasn't the first clue about Sasuke. To Sasuke, Ino is the same as Tenten or Hinata. Just a Konoha girl. That is what makes it so pathetic. Kishi just made her the biggest dope in Naruto. And once again made girls out to be complete idiots.

    Getting over her minor crush in Sasuke is what Ino should of done to show her maturity. If Kishi wants to talk about love with Ino, than pair her with Choji, who is the complete opposite of Sasuke. Yeah, he is fat. But healso isn't a complete asshat. Even though I would hate it because of Temari, pair her with Shika. He is good looking and has some Sasuke qualities. But not the bad ones. Even an out of no where thing with Shino would have been more preferable than dragging her back to Part1.

    He did something good with Hinata and ruined it with Ino. I fear what will happen with Sakura and Karin.
    Don't get me wrong. I'm not defending it, I'm just trying to explain it. I could rant and rant on why what he's doing with Ino is awful and wasteful; because I think it is and have thought that for a long time.

    At least with Sakura you can sell her focus on Sasuke as apart of her rampant self esteem issues and with Karin we got an actual source for her false hero image of Sasuke combined with her latent masocisim. Both were not very believable as long term motivations but they were something.

    In the case of Ino, as far as I'm aware she literally has no reason other than how pretty and talented he is. Sasuke has always been a jerk to her and he ran off to aid the organization her teacher and mentor died fighting. She's never had the underlying sense of inadequacy that Sakura has either. She should hate Sasuke by now.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    To be honest, I'm not to thrilled with any of the personal relationships in Naruto right now which is why I'm putting forth at least some effort into keeping my comments to a minimum. I'm trying to abide by my grandma advice when she used to tell me "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything."

    I can't name a single personal relationship in the series I think is going particularly well. Hinata and Naruto were looking good right until the dialogue in 615 made her seem more like a subservient worshiper instead of a potential partner. And the rest seems to me like a bee's nest of emotionally flat overwritten....garbage(sorry grandma)

    I'm sorry if that sounds harsh but it's the truth.
    Last edited by Jammin; January 20, 2013 at 02:19 PM.
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  2. #782
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member RandomShikafan's Avatar
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    Re: Romance (and society) in Naruto

    Quote Quote:
    I understand. He used Ino the same way during the Kage Summit Arc when she cried over Sasuke and apparently threatened to even kill over him. Basically he sacrificed her character to tie Sasuke to the K11 beyond Team 7. It was ridiculous then and even more ridiculous now.
    We have hardly been told she threatened to kill over him.

    And I don't think this means she is still interested or likes him. Her first thought when it came to the meaning of bush clover is a "positive love", her only major love at any point was Sasuke, hence the ironic reply. Even if she still loves him, we haven't seen any real suggestion she's stillmstupid enough to act on those feelings about like Karin, Sakura and Naruto. She's wisely stayed away.

    But yeah, it does kill hopes for InoCho or InoShika for me.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member NinjaStar's Avatar
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    Re: Romance (and society) in Naruto

    Quote Originally Posted by RandomShikafan View Post
    We have hardly been told she threatened to kill over him.

    And I don't think this means she is still interested or likes him. Her first thought when it came to the meaning of bush clover is a "positive love", her only major love at any point was Sasuke, hence the ironic reply. Even if she still loves him, we haven't seen any real suggestion she's stillmstupid enough to act on those feelings about like Karin, Sakura and Naruto. She's wisely stayed away.

    But yeah, it does kill hopes for InoCho or InoShika for me.
    When Shikamaru was talking to Shizune, Sakura, and Sai about Raikage killing Sasuke, he mentioned Ino in the same breath as Naruto and Sakura wanting to avenge Sasuke's death. It was the whole cycle of hate talk Shikamaru had with them during the kage summit arc right before he proposed that they be the ones to kill him.

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    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Romance (and society) in Naruto

    Quote Originally Posted by Jammin View Post
    Here's the thing about that.

    The way it's written it makes little to no sense that Ino or Sakura would still like Sasuke much. He's a huuuuge asshole. But if they didn't like him Naruto would by all by his lonesome in being obsessed with the prick and it would be even harder to defend his longtime state of Sasuke-apoligism. As things stand Naruto at the very least isn't alone. I think Ino, Sakura, and all the other Sasuke fangirls are a shallow attempt make him seem "worth saving" in the eyes of the greater Narutoverse so Naruto isn't just doing this for himself. If it was just Naruto, it would seem that Naruto has more loyalty to Sasuke than he is to everybody else; despite them being much more deserving of that loyalty.

    Essentially, I think, it's poor characterization put in there to attempt to compensate for a forced plot point that just doesn't make a lot of sense.(we've gotten a lot of that in the last 2 arcs)
    The thing is, Naruto's loyalty stems from the time they spent together. Sasuke was one of the first bonds Naruto had, and he considered Sasuke like a brother, hence why he works so hard to save him. Out of the three, Ino has no excuse, it's just a childhood crush. Sakura and Naruto actually spent time with Sasuke, and the three did care about each other until Orochimaru and Itachi messed Sasuke up.
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    MH's Best Reviewer MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Jammin's Avatar
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    Re: Romance (and society) in Naruto

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    The thing is, Naruto's loyalty stems from the time they spent together. Sasuke was one of the first bonds Naruto had, and he considered Sasuke like a brother, hence why he works so hard to save him. Out of the three, Ino has no excuse, it's just a childhood crush. Sakura and Naruto actually spent time with Sasuke, and the three did care about each other until Orochimaru and Itachi messed Sasuke up.
    I completely agree. Ino still hanging on to Sasuke doesn't work at all.

    But I think the reason it's getting shoehorned in there is because Kishimoto needs Sasuke to be important to other people, even if it makes no sense for that to be the case. Otherwise Naruto being hell bent on saving Sasuke becomes a personal/selfish thing. Kishimoto needs Sasuke to be important to people in order for Naruto not to look bad.

    Sasuke's character never built up the relationships that would give him that kind of believable support amoung his peers. So Kishimoto is forced to manufacture it in order to allow the plot go the way he wants. That's why Ino is acting in a way that doesn't make a lot of make sense.
    Last edited by Jammin; January 22, 2013 at 01:41 PM.
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    Re: Romance (and society) in Naruto

    The thing is, Ino is not Hinata (content to never say a word to her crush for ages at a time). She had six years in the same class with Sasuke to spend time with him. I mean, Kishi could've actually done some Academy flashbacks to give some credence to Ino and Sakura's love the way the anime fillers go out of their way for Hinata but still.

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    Re: Romance (and society) in Naruto

    Quote Originally Posted by Jammin View Post
    In the case of Ino, as far as I'm aware she literally has no reason other than how pretty and talented he is. Sasuke has always been a jerk to her and he ran off to aid the organization her teacher and mentor died fighting. She's never had the underlying sense of inadequacy that Sakura has either. She should hate Sasuke by now.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    To be honest, I'm not to thrilled with any of the personal relationships in Naruto right now...
    I can't name a single personal relationship in the series I think is going particularly well.
    It is pretty depressing, all right. None of the current relationship developments feel particularly authentic or satisfying to me, either; they also serve to further undermine the credibility and characterization of several of the Kishimoto girls.

    On a happier note, it has been shown that the number of female characters in Naruto who love nice guys really upsets the 'All Girls Want Bad Boys' apple cart. It seems to be the one kindness Kishimoto has shown to his girls and the fans who want to root for them.

    Perhaps this list of "Naruto Ladies who Love the Nice Guys" will provide a modicum of comfort for my fellow fans who despair for the love lives of the cast and the implications of romantic incompetence on the part of the ladies of the ninjaverse:

    Kushina: Minato must be the nicest guy in the world, after Hiruzen Sarutobi
    Hinata: Naruto is...not the sharpest crayon in the box but he's very caring
    Biwako: Hiruzen was arguably too soft-hearted (you know what I'm talking about)
    Kurenai: even in his rebel stage, Asuma was a jovial and big-hearted guy (takes after his old man, evidently)
    Tsunade: Dan was very sweet and gentle
    Matsuri and Sari: yeah, Gaara used to be terrifying, but he's sure been adorable for a while now, and he didn't get his fangirls until he changed
    Mito: Hashirama got a stellar girl, and his perfect-hero-ness is of vast annoyance to Bad Boy Madara (pffft)
    Konan: Yahiko was outgoing and idealistic
    Temari: heavily implied to have Takahashi-couple-potential with Shikamaru, who, while not particularly sentimental, is definitely not mean
    Yuugao: Hayate's girl (whatever happened to her, anyway??)
    Mei: despite her flirtiness, she's shown to be more than ready to settle down with a steady
    Rin: Kakashi was reserved and loth to make connections at first, but he was certainly not cruel (and of course...he does read steamy romance novels openly. tee hee)
    Yoshino: tsunderes love those smarty Nara men, don't they?
    TenTen: subtly hinted to have a fondness for Lee, yet another candidate for nicest guy in the universe
    Mrs. Akimichi: Choza is very much a kind-hearted family man

    In the "Wanting Bad Boys" debit column we have the following, three of whom had it bad for the same person:

    Sakura: She's obviously not happy about it; I think she wants to get over her feelings but a broken heart can take a long time to heal. She's been thoroughly disillusioned.
    Anko: She got over it, big time.
    Ino: Seriously WTF is up with that. I thought she'd moved on but...??
    Karin: an interesting case; apart from his prettiness, she appeared to really dig what she could feel about Sasuke's inner personality, which was implied to be essentially good underneath the brokenness. Later she changed her mind when things got seriously ugly, and good for her.

    In conclusion, a few Kishimoto women show poor choices on the love front (and they certainly suffer the consequences), but the vast majority of them exhibit good sense in their romantic lives. This gives me a little boost of hope for the futures of those who haven't sorted out their feelings yet.

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    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Romance (and society) in Naruto

    Quote Originally Posted by Jammin View Post
    I completely agree. Ino still hanging on to Sasuke doesn't work at all.

    But I think the reason it's getting shoehorned in there is because Kishimoto needs Sasuke to be important to other people, even if it makes no sense for that to be the case. Otherwise Naruto being hell bent on saving Sasuke becomes a personal/selfish thing. Kishimoto needs Sasuke to be important to people in order for Naruto not to look bad.

    Sasuke's character never built up the relationships that would give him that kind of believable support amoung his peers. So Kishimoto is forced to manufacture it in order to allow the plot go the way he wants. That's why Ino is acting in a way that doesn't a lot of make sense.
    Based on what Naruto said though, we already know that his motivation is mainly personal. There was Sakura as well, but whether others get involved or not, it's personal for Naruto as he himself said he wanted to bring back the one person he considered like his brother and one of the first bonds he's had. Adding others in won't make it seem less personal or selfish, in my opinion.

    Plus, Naruto did say he was doing it for Sasuke's sake as well.
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    MH's Best Reviewer MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Jammin's Avatar
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    Re: Romance (and society) in Naruto

    @Bloomerwedgies
    What is this "happiness" you speak of?

    Seriously, I'm glad you can find a bright side. People like you and Nindo are rays of sunshine. Though I may not be able to find much to feel good about with Naruto I'm truly glad that people like you still can. It brightens the forum and offsets my curmudgeon-ness.

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Based on what Naruto said though, we already know that his motivation is mainly personal. There was Sakura as well, but whether others get involved or not, it's personal for Naruto as he himself said he wanted to bring back the one person he considered like his brother and one of the first bonds he's had. Adding others in won't make it seem less personal or selfish, in my opinion.

    Plus, Naruto did say he was doing it for Sasuke's sake as well.
    Doing it for Sasuke's sake doesn't really help, nor does Sakura. In reality Naruto and Sasuke's situation is a lot like if some dickish billionaires son who runs around murdering people and the billionaire using his money/influence to try and get him off the hook. Despite preaching forgiveness what he's actually doing with Sauske is a form "nepotism". Why I think Kishimoto used Ino in the way he did was to create the illusion of Sasuke having deeper roots in the village than he's built the foundation for.

    As stupid as it is for Ino's character it's the only way to imply such a connection without having it come out patently absurd. Imagine trying to do the same thing with any other of the rookies. Chouji? Shikamaru? Kiba? The results would have been straight up laughable.

    "Does it work" is another question entirely. I think it does but how well depends a lot on the reader. If someone doesn't care about Ino much it probably would work quite well. Not everyone notices uncharacteristic behavior so such a thing can go unnoticed and serve it's purpose perfectly. For those that do notice it damages Ino's character but still connects her to Sasuke to some small degree; in which case it also serves it's purpose at a cost. This being said, regardless of circumstance, it's bad writing. In good writing characters and plot should smoothly interweave and that is obviously not happening here. When one is forced to go along with the other it's symptom of much deeper problems.
    Last edited by Jammin; February 07, 2013 at 02:41 PM.
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    Re: Romance (and society) in Naruto

    You say Lee was being unprofessional but would you have expected Ino and Shikamaru to casually shrug off the death of Choji like Tenten has?
    Or Shino and Hinata to shrug off Kiba's death?
    I don't think you would really expect that.
    Considering we've already had people crying in this war. That death was a bit of a dog's death imo. Got shrugged off pretty casually.

    Granted it is law not to waste time crying though I do understand that.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Brill's Avatar
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    Re: Romance (and society) in Naruto

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessie View Post
    I am not saying she is anywhere near the level of a Shikamaru in terms of character development. There is a HUGE difference between them. We don't know Ino like we do a Shika, Gaara, or Kakashi.

    When fans hated Ino, it was because they saw her as nothing more than a Sasuke fangirl. When they like Ino, it is because of Ino-Shika-Cho. So Kishi then develops her a little and makes Team 10 the most important team outside of Team 7. He strengthens her bonds with her team.

    Everything was perfect, but Kishi can't resist when it comes to his darling Sasuke. So poor Ino gets to be the fool again.

    But from what do know of Ino, her still liking Sasuke makes zero sense given who he is and the fact they have nothing to do with each other. Kishi has tried to portray her the past couple of years as a strong and rational girl who deeply cares about Shika and Choji. The girl who along with Shika, helped Choji overcome his weakness during the Zombie Asuma fight. Someone who would of gotten over Sasuke years ago and noticed there were always way better guys in Konoha. But nope, Kishi wants her to also remain a shallow silly Sasuke fangirl; which destroys her character. Ino cannot have an ending with Sasuke like Hinata can with Naruto, so Kishi should of had her move on. Sasuke probably thought of Shikamaru more than Ino.

    I understand. He used Ino the same way during the Kage Summit Arc when she cried over Sasuke and apparently threatened to even kill over him. Basically he sacrificed her character to tie Sasuke to the K11 beyond Team 7. It was ridiculous then and even more ridiculous now.

    But Kishi cannot pretend she is the same as Sakura and Karin. I can at least understand their love for him, as silly as it may be. They interacted with him. They were by his side. They know him. Sasuke somewhat acknowledged them. Hell, plenty of my friends love jerks. So I get it. But Ino hasn't the first clue about Sasuke. To Sasuke, Ino is the same as Tenten or Hinata. Just a Konoha girl. That is what makes it so pathetic. Kishi just made her the biggest dope in Naruto. And once again made girls out to be complete idiots.

    Getting over her minor crush in Sasuke is what Ino should of done to show her maturity. If Kishi wants to talk about love with Ino, than pair her with Choji, who is the complete opposite of Sasuke. Yeah, he is fat. But he also isn't a complete asshat. Even though I would hate it because of Temari, pair her with Shika. He is good looking and has some Sasuke qualities. But not the bad ones. Even an out of nowhere thing with Shino would have been more preferable than dragging her back to Part1.

    He did something good with Hinata and ruined it with Ino. I fear what will happen with Sakura and Karin.
    And Lee likes Sakura, Sakura likes Sasuke, Naruto likes(d) Sakura, Hinata likes Naruto, Obito likes Rin, and Rin likes Kakashi. Narurto's world is FULL of 1-sided relationships. The relationships that aren't have one or both people dead. It took 615 chapters and someone finally MIGHT start to like someone else. There is not a lot of elasticiity in the Naruto romance. So why would you expect Ino to give up on Sasuke? Sasuke until recently wasn't considered a villian that was to be hunted down. For 2 years Sasuke was pursied but never thought as an enemy of the state. If Sakura could still love Sasuke after 2+ years of abandonment why can't Ino? Sasuke hasn't done anything to Ino, just killed some old fart named Danzo, a blessing in disguise. Why would Ino feelings have changed all this time any more so than Lee's affection for Sakura or Hinata's for Naruto, it's why she was crying when the Konoha 11 decided to take Sasuke out. Their feelings don't change which is par for the course in tbis series. Kishi sets us relationships and then freezes them in place. Naruto has been the only character who's realized that what he desired wasn't going to happen and may be ready to move on.

    Outside of Team 10 Ino IS a Sasuke fangirl. Ino's character outside of Team 10 is nothing more than a friend and rival to Sakura's persona. You don't have chapters where she's wishing she was free as a cloud or wanting to be a fashion tycoon. She has almost no depth outside ot her team. Most don't. Kiba, Shino, Neji, TenTen, Chouji have no depth outside of their team function. To say Ino's character was destroyed by the farewell speech was about 10 yeats too late to the party. After the chuunin exam Ino was nothing. So when you try to sum up nothing, you're left with nothing. You can't get blood from a stone and that's what Ino's character has been regardless of the recent favorable airtime.

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    Re: Romance (and society) in Naruto

    ^^Good point.
    But to say Neji has no depth outside of his team is just incorrect since you can't ignore his massive backstory with the Main clan and branch clan stuff.

    @Bloomerwedgies how come Anko was in your list? She had a love interest in the series?

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    Re: Romance (and society) in Naruto

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    @Bloomerwedgies how come Anko was in your list? She had a love interest in the series?
    Orochimaru

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Jessie's Avatar
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    Re: Romance (and society) in Naruto

    Quote Originally Posted by Brill View Post
    And Lee likes Sakura, Sakura likes Sasuke, Naruto likes(d) Sakura, Hinata likes Naruto, Obito likes Rin, and Rin likes Kakashi. Narurto's world is FULL of 1-sided relationships. The relationships that aren't have one or both people dead. It took 615 chapters and someone finally MIGHT start to like someone else. There is not a lot of elasticiity in the Naruto romance. So why would you expect Ino to give up on Sasuke? Sasuke until recently wasn't considered a villian that was to be hunted down. For 2 years Sasuke was pursied but never thought as an enemy of the state. If Sakura could still love Sasuke after 2+ years of abandonment why can't Ino? Sasuke hasn't done anything to Ino, just killed some old fart named Danzo, a blessing in disguise. Why would Ino feelings have changed all this time any more so than Lee's affection for Sakura or Hinata's for Naruto, it's why she was crying when the Konoha 11 decided to take Sasuke out. Their feelings don't change which is par for the course in tbis series. Kishi sets us relationships and then freezes them in place. Naruto has been the only character who's realized that what he desired wasn't going to happen and may be ready to move on.
    And here lies the problem. As silly as it sounds, we can accept Sakura still loving Sasuke. Kishi showed his work with her crush. We saw them together. We saw Sasuke and Sakura interact. We saw Sasuke, for one brief moment in his life, let his guard down and tell her he was sorry when he left. Sakura's character now revolves more around Sasuke than it does Naruto. And her ending probably lies with him.

    He also showed his work with Karin. For some reason, she seemed to actually love him. A love that even went beyond his appearence. Ino's crush is no more than the one Tenten had on Sasuke a million years ago.

    Ino had NOTHING with Sasuke. The Sakura and Ino rivalry has long been over. Sasuke never once paid any attention to Ino. Ino has no significance in his world. If Ino was in front of Sasuke today, he would address her as the girl on Shikamaru's team. She is nothing to Sasuke. And there is no ending for Ino with Sasuke.

    With all the other crushes you cite, there was some interaction. Lee does mean something to Sakura. Obito meant something to Rin. Naruto means a lot to Sakura. Naruto liked Hinata, but not in the way she wanted till now.

    Ino should have gotten over Sasuke years ago. But once again, Kishi is clueless with girls. Let's even say Ino is shallow. There are guys just as hot running around Konoha. Neji(well maybe not now), Kiba, Shikamaru, ect. To have her still hung up on Sasuke is laughable. BTW, chasing Sasuke nearly got Shika and Choji killed. The two guys Kishi wants us to believe Ino cares about above all. And if she foolishly went off to avenge Sasuke if Kumo killed him as was stated, she would put Shika and Choji's lives at risk avenging her. Just awful writing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post

    @Bloomerwedgies how come Anko was in your list? She had a love interest in the series?
    I think she is talking about bad boy Orochimaru. Whether her love for him was romantic, paternal, or platonic is anyone's guess.
    Last edited by Jessie; January 21, 2013 at 04:45 PM.

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    Re: Romance (and society) in Naruto

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    Orochimaru
    HOOOOLLLLDDD UPPP.
    That was love interest???
    Can I be given a link!?! That's... One heck of an age gap iirc. Basically a KakashixTsunade sort of age gap no?

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