the manga mentions NOTHING about picking up pieces of anyone.. especially not Roxanne, do you mean Cassandra, Rosemary, or Teresa, and still as I just said, it doesn't say anything about picking up pieces of anyone. Dae does though collect dea rank 1 corpses, is this what you meant than maybe?
How can they know the shockingly massive power level of Priscilla's arm, but not the even more massive power level of Teresa, and her near full body (minus the head and hands)?
And if they had Teresa's body, they wouldn't be drooling over Priscilla's arm. with Teresa's body they could make 21 (3 could be made from Priscilla's arm x 7 of Teresa's PL compared to Priscilla's x ?? from having most of Teresa's body vs just having Priscilla's arm to use) "Re-Animated" rank 1 Claymore "Dolls".
A possibility, which I do believe in, is that Rubel stole Teresa's body (and her hands) for his own use, in my theory, Rubel was actually responsible for the entire Teresa-Priscilla incident... but I'll stop here with my Rubel theories, lol , (and he seems to have shown as much knowledge of "creation" as Dae knows, so it seems he's jsut as capable as Dae is to "create" beings), secretly buried/disposed the bodies of Sophia and Noel (to hide their evidence of being killed by Awakened Priscilla, their fatal tentacle-hole injuries, lol), but was annoyed to find Teresa's head missing and Irene missing....
Rubel orders/uses Rafaela to seek out Irene for dissertion-execution, while he tracks down that damned lil human girl, who must have taken "his" Teresa's head...
however, upon finding her, with her demanding of him to put Teresa's head inside of her, he's like why not, I need to test/prototype creating a being with Teresa's flesh, and if any being is compatible with Teresa, it would be this human girl, so, so be it, let me use this "Clare" as my guinee pig, my prototype new being using the flesh of a Claymore, and not jsut any Claymore, but Teresa herself, as a human implanted with Claymore flesh, will only be 1/4 Yoma, making them even more able to become this HA thing that Ophelia had told me about unknowingly when she described to me what happened with Miria...
Last edited by HegemonKhan; April 01, 2011 at 08:19 PM.
To recycle from a previous post:
A short answer would be to quote Master Dae himself in Scene 110:
"Try to give me the name of a warrior that has the potential to exceed these (Dae previously named former No. 1s Isley, Riffle and Luciela). Leaving aside whether they can exceed them or not. Number ones who died without awakening are..."
Dae's question is specifically about former No. 1s, not about No. 2s, 3s, 4s, etc.
It's unclear if only Dae is enumerating the No. 1s, or others are contributing. But the discussion on the table is specifically about former No. 1s.
To repeat: nowhere does any Man-in-Black, Chief Klimt, Louvre or Dae ask about a No. 2, 3, 4, etc.
Let's outline the Council meeting in Scene 110:
1) Dae brings an arm with more power than an Abyssal One.
2) An Abyssal One is defined as an awakened No. 1. They don't define as Abyssal Ones No. 2s or No. 2s that "may" become a No. 1.
Even if every Man-in-Black present remembers Priscilla as the almost No. 1, would anyone redefine her as an Abyssal One, or even an "almost" Abyssal One?
In this connection, I now notice something for the first time---how frightened the Men-in-Black are of speaking. Like so many business meetings (which this is!), the lower echelon are afraid of saying the wrong thing. Maybe the subject of Priscilla is one of them.
3) Dae goes on to name the previous Abyssal Ones: Isley, Riffle and Luciela.
4) Dae goes on to name "Number Ones who died without awakening..."
Note "without awakening..." Priscilla awakened. She has the same status as Rosemary and Agatha, former No. 2s that awoke. But that subject isn't on the table here.
5) Dae names eight former No. 1s. Everyone's mind is on former No. 1s. If Dae wanted to talk about "almost" No. 1s, he would have talked about that. But he doesn't. Perhaps an oversight on his part (and necessary for the plot), he overlooks other possibilities than unawakened No. 1s who died.
Is this a plot hole? Maybe, maybe not. I do get part of the necessity of Hege's Louvre hypothesis---why wouldn't Dae, Klimt and other bring up other non-No. 1 candidates---awakened or not---though not necessarily Priscilla?
But to say that it's proven that no one knew about Priscilla, since no one interjected an awakened No. 2 into a discussion of unawakened No. 1s is only possible if you allow all other possibilities. But that's my signature!
Last edited by jamie95403; April 01, 2011 at 09:59 PM.
a small opinionated comment of mine:
a demotion in rank is not a demotion in power level
Rosemary was a rank 1 and remains a rank 1 in terms of her power level, and the only reason she got demoted to rank 2 is because a rank S, Teresa, was promoted to rank 1, hehe.
some people argue that rankings are relative.
I personally don't agree, as the BCs seem to rank their Claymores VERY ACCURATELY... and all rank 1's seem to have ~ the same power levels, so their seems to be a minimum power level required to be a rank 1 and thus it's not relative at least in my belief, anyways... somehow... "despite not being able to sense yoki" while also somehow being able to sense/know the Power Level in Priscilla's arm.... HK's opinion: the BCs are Yomas and they can sense yokis/power levels, as how do they rank their Claymores in the first place if they couldn't sense yokis/power levels...
also, Priscilla was understood as being powerful enough to be Teresa's replacement, a replacement for a rank 1 (or actually a rank S):
Rubel: ~"Priscilla was slated to be the new rank 1 [as soon as she killed Teresa, but than she Awakened...]"
So, while I'm still waiting for whether the other BCs knew of Priscilla's existence lol, we know at least from Rubel that Priscilla was indeed a rank 1, and not a rank 2. For whatever reason, Priscilla had to be rank 2, while despite being a "traitor" Teresa is allowed to keep her rank 1 status, until Priscilla kills her, lol, which than Priscilla would be "awarded" her rank 1 status.
so in the council meeting, they'd not gloss over the rank 1 Priscilla, if they knew about her... as according to Rubel she WAS to be the new rank 1 replacement for rank 1 Teresa, she was never considered to be a rank 2, but for whatever the "quirk" she couldn't have the rank 1 status until she killed Teresa, even if Teresa was no longer apart of the Organization, the Org still allowed her to be the rank 1 as long as she lived, lol. meh, you'll have to ask the BCs/Rubel why they have this weird policy in terms of their rankings, lol D
and... to throw the Priscilla databook back at ya (figuratively/jokingly)... doesn't it show stats of her being a rank 1, eh?
Last edited by HegemonKhan; April 01, 2011 at 10:55 PM.
Hege: and... to throw the Priscilla databook back at ya... doesn't it show stats of her being a rank 1, eh?
Answer: Does it?
Teresa from Data Book 1.
Yoki power: S (Special level of ability)
Muscular strength: A
Mental strength: A
Yoki perception: S
Leadership skills: B
Priscilla from Data Book 1 as Claymore.
Yoki power: A+
Muscular strength: B+
Mental strength: D
Yoki perception: A+
Leadership skills: C
Priscilla doesn't appear to be as strong as Teresa. Though keep in mind Priscilla hasn't fully developed her powers yet. Even though Teresa and Irene thought/said Priscilla had the potential of being more powerful, it was as a Claymore warrior, not as an Awakened Being.
And if someone wishes to create an alternative Claymore universe, where Priscilla (as warrior) has all Ss, that's fine. The data above is offered here only as an aid to you imagination, not as canon or dogma.
The stats themselves would only be valid at the beginning of the series, as everything changed since the 7-year Timeskip.
Louvre comments on Priscilla in Scene 25 reveals no professional contact with Priscilla (he said "he heard" about...). And all his comments concerns her as an Awakened Being, not warrior. He appears personally unfamiliar with Priscilla, only knowing her second or third hand.
We never see any Men-in-Black with Sophia and Noel, but that doesn't prove they're also secret warriors for Louvre.
Hege: so in the council meeting, they'd not gloss over the rank 1 Priscilla
Answer: There was nothing to "gloss over." The subject was quite specific---unawakened No. 1s. And the eight warriors enumerated were unawakened. And No. 1s.
Priscilla was an Awakened Being. Priscilla last rank was No. 2. There was no reason to bring her up. Again, a careful reading of Scene 110 reveals No. 1s and only No. 1s were being discussed by Dae and the Council.
Regarding the Data Books: they were written by Yagi. But I realize that everyone is free to accept, or reject whatever is written. Opinions differ widely (as it should). Some integrate info of the Data Books into the manga/anime series. Other completely reject the Data Books, putting them in the category of the ad page extras in Jump Square. Your choice.
Further, some reject the gaiden and Jump Square maps, or even certain manga scenes, or the entire anime series, which is OK. There's some fans who pretend that Ophelia or Lucky or some other character don't really exist.
There is no right or wrong choice for anyone here. But it has to make sense for you. It's your Claymore universe!
Last edited by jamie95403; April 02, 2011 at 12:19 AM.
HelloOriginally Posted by HegemonKhan
What a disscusion I like it
HegemonKhan as We can see in extra chapter Priscilla rather will not attack single peoples or single houses, because Her extremal appetite, which even makes Rigaldo sick and He rushed to stop Her. Then We also did not know, in what "time frame" We can put attack on Ophelia's town / village to Her become an Claymore and number 4 when Clare still was number 47 even when Clare was surly become Claymore earlier than She. I don't know this could be a week, two or months? Or immediately after Priscilla awakened Ophelia town / village was attacked, when She first time goes to eat ? Thus it could be the most probably option because the time between those Two was be to expanded, and Ophelia was faster promoted then Clare. (Also in extra chapter when Clare was trainee I did not see any Claymore that reminds Me Ophelia, thus I can be wrong Here!) So I rather don't buy it that Org was not informed about destruction of whole town / village. They have this informants also when They where near by to retrieve bodies of fallen Claymores (with Teresa body also) so powerful Yoki of new awakened one should be easily detected. But maybe Priscilla was already far away from place of Teresa's death to this massacred town / village. Also in anime when Ophelia has reminiscence of this events, We can see some houses and other peoples running away in fear so this was rather large town / village. Then I think that Ophelia survived not to because Her brother sacrifice but because Priscilla treaded Her as Clare, just ignored and went eat something bigger. Clare was also spared because of ignorance of new AB.
Then about Data Books, it seems to Me that Yagi as narrator just tray to explain some things that occurred in manga, but He did this as curiosity, because there is many things that can not be compared directly to manga. Also as I wrote, that since Rubel could be some kind of narrator character Data Books could be treated as His personal notes, that is why He knows about Priscilla and nobody else do. So this possibility as curiosity also must be taken under attention.
And about Priscilla and Teresa statistic in this books, as I wrote somewhere that Priscilla was to young and to inexperienced to be useful against Veteran Warrior which one Teresa was. She just get physically exhausted and then She goes over Her limits. I think that in time, when She goes to become physically stronger when She experienced Her first HA, when She learns how to control Her limits She will be stronger and more deadly than Teresa, but this time did not come, and She ended as the most powerful AB. So there is nothing more to write here, it just happened.
Have a nice day
I read again extra chapter no. 4, there is no Claymore trainee, that could be look like young Ophelia, but on page 12 Claymore, which earlier fight with Clare said: (exactly quoted) "Looks like We We'll be able to finish our fight from a year ago" so Clare took at least one year to become Claymore, and I think that even 2, so on that time Ophelia should be already double digit soldier, to be single digit when Clare meet Miria, Helen and Deneve. There is this problem with rate of promotion to higher numbers. So Ophelia even that was become Claymore later then Clare, She faster become No. 4. It seem like time line in manga is not linear, and this multi plots sometimes can not be directly compared one to another.
Last edited by colonywars; April 02, 2011 at 12:44 PM. Reason: Added some reflections after re-reading extra chapter no. 4
Hello I am new to this forum.
I'm really curious to know what you guys think the other two warriors would be reanimated and your reasons why.
Given the list; which one would YOU want to see come alive? Perhaps you should disregard Teresa since I think we all know the reasons for having her coming back >>>
(1) Hysteria the Elegant
(2) Three Armed Licht
(3) Heavy Bladed Chloe
(4) Lutecia the Universal
(5) Sistina the Divine Oracle
(6) Roxanne of Love and Hate
(7) Cassandra the Dust Eater [Already known]
(8) TERESA OF THE FAINT SMILE!!!!!!!!!!!
Otherwise, I would choose (1) and (3).
I chose Hysteria, because she is nicknamed "the Elegant". Who doesn't want to see a badass former #1 that's elegant? It's like seeing Anastasia with supapowaa.
Chloe seemed to stick out to me. "Heavy Bladed" made me imagine her lightly tapping her claymore and the resulting power is equal to one jumping in mid-air for an assault. That could make her like Sophia, but obviously much more powerful.
So what about you guys?
Welcome on forum
Well, there is nothing that, at least Me, know about this dead former No. 1. And as was also said in manga quoted: "There was no end to those names" so It could be somebody which was not mentioned to be resurrected, as others 2 warriors. I personally exclude Teresa, but I will be happy to see Her again, I rather be positively surprised than very sad disappointed, but if She will become mindless Zombie on Org leash I rather prefer Her remain dead.
So I choose:
Three Armed Licht because it must be quite effective skill to be named like this, and Roxanne of Love and Hate because this Claymore had to be really a bad-ass to be named with two so powerful opposite feelings. We know that from Hate comes Revenge, and Revenge is everything in Clare's life and Love is even stronger passion that this two mentioned above
Have a good day
Last edited by colonywars; April 02, 2011 at 03:02 PM.
thanks for the part of Clare saying she was a Trainee for at least a year! (HK adds/saves this to his notes, hehe)
I don't think it's possible for Clare to have been a Claymore before Ophelia:
(this is probably though the messiest time range, Teresa's death to the "spiderman" male AB Hunt, in the manga, to try to figure it out as we got so many characters to deal with - Miria Ophelia Priscilla Clare Hilda Deneve Helen, I've given up on it, for now, too much of "brain burst/pop", lol)
Elena becomes a Claymore AFTER Clare, so when they meet (and Clare kills Elena), Clare has been a Claymore for a longer time than Elena has, but Clare was able to resist her high yoki releases better than Elena could, due to Clare being 1/4 Yoma.
Clare+Raki are on mission with Claymore Ophelia to kill the single digit/ranked female Gonahl AB:
(we know what happens)
"Spiderman" male AB Hunt scene:
rank 6 and HA Miria: this will be my 7th AB Hunt
HA Deneve: this will be my 3rd AB Hunt
HA Helen: this will be my 1st AB Hunt
HA Clare: this will be my 1st AB Hunt
*Miria has never met Deneve+Helen before - I think this is correct anyways - it seems so anyways
rank 6 and HA Miria Meets HA Clare for her first time:
Clare kills 4 of the 5 NYs, and Miria kills the 5th outside town saving the human girl.
Miria senses Clare as being the ~"most powerful Claymore I have ever known"
.... which would include Ophelia, as Miria knows Ophelia very well!
.... WTF... Miria in this moment is telling us that Clare is actually more powerful than Ophelia!
rank 8 Miria Awakens scene/time:
on her 3rd AB Hunt against Awakened Hilda on Ophelia's team, who is already a rank 4
rank 8/17 Miria scene/time:
she's on Ophelia (who is already a rank 4 even this early) 's AB Hunt team, but Ophelia is watching instead, and meets secretly with Hilda
rank 17 Miria scene/time:
she meets and shows she knows Hilda, as good friends
Last edited by HegemonKhan; April 02, 2011 at 04:04 PM.
I'd be equally happy with Sistina the Divine Oracle, Lutecia the Universal or Roxanne of Love and Hate.
They all sound so epic (though I think among the 3 Lutecia sounds the most powerful).
Sorry, I meant Cassandra. Didn't Dae say she was chopped to hell as she was Awakening and they pieced her back together?Quote:
Cassandra was just slashed/cut up, but no actual severence of any of her body parts. (like Miria was, minus Miria's severed arm, lol)
So, according to Dae, Cassandra thus had no "physical deficiencies", unlike headLESS and handLESS Teresa
-though maybe I could be wrong... too lazy to go back an look at the chapter, meh. If I'm wrong, than please correct me! Accuracy/Correctness matters!!!
Last edited by HegemonKhan; April 02, 2011 at 11:00 PM.
Same goes for me I would like to see Sistina the Divine oracle and perhaps Hysteria the Elegant(whats so elegant about her?)
does anyone know when will the next chapter be released? will it be delayed this month?
I think it is going to be delayed (no April, this month, release), but I'm not sure (don't quote me on it), as *maybe* its "delay" as someone mentioned, was merely an April Fool's of where the person found the announcement at...
if it's not out by April 10th, it's delayed (no April, this month, release).
Last edited by HegemonKhan; April 03, 2011 at 12:12 AM.
New chapter should be out on April 21st and it will be a double issue (114 and 115). So instead of getting Jump SQ #5 and #6 on April 4th and May 4th we will have Jump SQ #5+6 released on April 21st. So the next Claymore chapter (116) will be in June. And I wouldn't be surprised if Yagi didn't make a 50-60 pages in that issue but more like 40 pages, i.e. less than he normally would. We will see.
Anyway, don't know if it you guys mentionned it yet, but Yagi's illustration for the victims of the earthquake can be found here (along with other illustrations from JSQ authors) :
is the information on the chapter 114 and 115 release accurate?