Shanks, Marco & Teach vs Akainu, Kizaru & Aokiji

[Calisto]

The Admirals win bob scenarios because Teach isn't a top tier and he dies immediately. And Shanks and Marco can't defeat 3 Admirals at once.

[Haynes]

On Topic: I said they win both rounds. If they can work together against the Admirals, I see it playing out as Shanks beats an admiral, Blackbleard and Marco hold off the other two admirals, Shanks backs one of them up they beat that one then its a 3 vs 1 Pirates favor.

I see it playing out similarly in round 2.

No. Shanks is nowhere near as strong as he used to be considering Mihawk hasn't picked a fight with him in years. Shanks' current level is hard to determine because he still lacks feats, but assuming Shanks to be stronger than any of WB's Captains (e.g. Vista) by a fair margin is an unreasonable assumption.

Shank's is a Yonkou. One of the Four Emperors. To counter act the Four Emperors of the New World the World Government formed the Marines and the Shichibukai. That alone says a lot about how strong he is.

As far as Mihawk not fighting him, it's because he has one arm. It doesn't mean he's not as strong as Mihawk. You're basically saying a Yonkou, isn't shit compared to a Shichibukai or a Division commander of the Whitebeard pirates?

Shanks had his crew standing behind him.

Yeah, Whitebeard picked a fight with Marine HQ with over 40 ships and crews. Shank's had only his crew and he stopped the War. Oh by the way, Shanks' crew is only 1 ship.

BB has already outfought Shanks once before and Shanks had his crew standing behind him during that scene.

We don't know when Blackbeard fought Shanks. It could have been before Shanks was became a Yonkou or during his rookie years as a captain. Granted it could also be after his Yonkou achievement.

Blackbeard didn't outfight Shanks he just wounded him. And it happened before the start of the story. So for all intensive purposes it was before he became a Yonkou.

We don't even know if Shanks is the strongest in his crew. Normally the Captains are the strongest as we've seen in every other group, but Shanks may be an exception as was the case with Spandam and CP9.

Sure we don't know if Shanks is the strongest in his crew, but as you've said they normally are....wait they always are. CP9 was not a Pirate Crew, they were official World Government employees. So CP9 doesn't really apply.

[BlackHair]

WB didn't defeat Akainu. WB was also the loser in his exchanges with Akainu. WB only succeeded in giving Akainu a bloody forehead. Akainu, on the other hand, burned a hole through WB's chest and melted half of WB's face.

Well, technically WB did win his last exchange. Anyway, don't put the last WB vs Akainu exchange as a one vs one. Since it clearly wasn't. WB's main goal was to help his crew to retreat, therefore he took the MHQ head one.

If it was just Akainu he would have killed him in his last exchange. I mean just imagine what would have happened if WB went after Akanu as he was falling to ground. The red dog was in no condition to fight anymore, after taking WB's island-split hit. If it wasn't for facing the rest of the MHQ and BB pirates, he would have dealt with Akanu more, but the safety of his crew had more priorities. So plz don't make it sound like it was a one vs one.

Shank's is a Yonkou. One of the Four Emperors. To counter act the Four Emperors of the New World the World Government formed the Marines and the Shichibukai. That alone says a lot about how strong he is.

I disagree. The Shichi and MHQ are there to counterbalance the pirate-age, the four emperors only hapens to represent the pinnacle of the pirates. Also the MHQ was probably formed long before the Yonko. Furthermore they (Yonkou) are feared and respected based on their power and influence, which is their crew+alliance. Not for their strength as a single individual.

Yeah, Whitebeard picked a fight with Marine HQ with over 40 ships and crews. Shank's had only his crew and he stopped the War. Oh by the way, Shanks' crew is only 1 ship.

U make it sound like Shanks was more than a Yonko than WB. Plz reread the chapter. It's not like the forces on that battlefield shit their pants seeing Shanks and his boyclub, they rather calmed down and came to their senses. Not to mention that every force on that battlefield was exhausted. And since Ace and WB were dead, there was no real reason anymore to continue the war. As Coby pointed out.

Anyway, the Mariens take round 1, but round 2 goes to the villains.

[Calisto]

The Pirates don't have a chance of winning this fight at all. It's clear that the Admirals take this.

---

Out of the pirates, the only one who is on par with an Admiral is Blackbeard. Marco and Shanks can only stall an Admiral. The Admirals win both scenarios.

Are you joking? An Admiral will destroy Teach, he's easily the weakest fighter in this thread.

Shanks is most likely stronger than an Admiral while Marco is equal to one.

[BlackHair]

It seems BB is underestimated here. That guy should be able to tank as much damage as WB did, furthermore his offence abilities with both fruits gives them a good advantage. No haki but the darkness fruit, which is even better than haki. The BB 2 years ago should be weaker than a Admiral, but the BB now should be on par or a bit stronger.

Though Shanks is still featless, I think it is safe to assume that he is on par with a Admiral. A Kings haki user. I put him on par or a tiny bit stronger than a Admiral.

Marco may not have destructive offensive abilities, however he has probably the best defensive ability in the enitre OP universe, imo. Also a haki user. I put him on par or a bit weaker than a Admiral.

The pirates take round two, but lose round 1.

[Franckie]

Shank's is a Yonkou. One of the Four Emperors. To counter act the Four Emperors of the New World the World Government formed the Marines and the Shichibukai. That alone says a lot about how strong he is.

Whoop-de-doo if he's a Yonkou. Being a Yonkou has nothing to do with his personal strength. Being a Yonkou has everything to do with the total military power Shanks commands. And we've seen how 1 Yonkou vs MHQ + 7BK turns out - the Yonkou loses. Hard.

As far as Mihawk not fighting him, it's because he has one arm. It doesn't mean he's not as strong as Mihawk. You're basically saying a Yonkou, isn't shit compared to a Shichibukai or a Division commander of the Whitebeard pirates?

Mihawk hasn't picked a fight with Shanks in years and spent the last two years levelgrinding Zoro just so Mihawk can have someone fight at his level. To say that current Shanks is stronger than any of WB's Captains by a fair margin is an unreasonable assumption considering what we currently know about him.

Yeah, Whitebeard picked a fight with Marine HQ with over 40 ships and crews. Shank's had only his crew and he stopped the War. Oh by the way, Shanks' crew is only 1 ship.

Shanks picked a fight with a MHQ that had already gotten done fighting one Yonkou (+ crew) and lost what little support of the 7BK they had.

We don't know when Blackbeard fought Shanks. It could have been before Shanks was became a Yonkou or during his rookie years as a captain. Granted it could also be after his Yonkou achievement.

Blackbeard didn't outfight Shanks he just wounded him. And it happened before the start of the story. So for all intensive purposes it was before he became a Yonkou.

Yes, Oda will hype BB by having Shanks tell WB, and us, the readers, that BB scarred him when Shanks wasn't at his prime.

BB received no lasting damage from Shanks, as far as we know.

Sure we don't know if Shanks is the strongest in his crew, but as you've said they normally are....wait they always are. CP9 was not a Pirate Crew, they were official World Government employees. So CP9 doesn't really apply.

Enel and his "priests" weren't pirates either and Enel was the strongest fighter the group had to offer. Whether a particular group is an exception or not will depend on said group having a peculiar circumstance. In Shanks' case, it's the fact that he is a swordsman who lost the usage of his dominant hand and that he has indirectly been stated to have gotten weaker over the years.

Well, technically WB did win his last exchange. Anyway, don't put the last WB vs Akainu exchange as a one vs one. Since it clearly wasn't. WB's main goal was to help his crew to retreat, therefore he took the MHQ head one.

The last exchange happened right after Akainu had just killed Ace. WB would not hold back in such a situation. WB's subordinates even comment on the ferocity of the attack and exclaim genuine surprise that Akainu actually managed to regain consciousness from a Quake Punch of that particular magnitude.

If it was just Akainu he would have killed him in his last exchange. I mean just imagine what would have happened if WB went after Akanu as he was falling to ground. The red dog was in no condition to fight anymore, after taking WB's island-split hit. If it wasn't for facing the rest of the MHQ and BB pirates, he would have dealt with Akanu more, but the safety of his crew had more priorities. So plz don't make it sound like it was a one vs one.

Akainu defeated Jinbei, Curiel, Ivankov, and Inazuma after receiving an island-splitting attack. Akainu also tanked a simultaneous attack from Vista + Marco with no apparent damage. Akainu was very much in a condition to continue fighting after taking WB's island-split hit.

Are you joking? An Admiral will destroy Teach, he's easily the weakest fighter in this thread.

Shanks is most likely stronger than an Admiral while Marco is equal to one.

Lol no. Shanks is most likely weaker than an Admiral as is the case with Marco. Oda shot the Marco = Admiral notion down when he explicitly states in the Vol. 59 SBS that all of WB's Captains are equal in strength.

[Calisto]

Laughing at the truth? Teach got fodderized by a half dead Whitebeard and ran away like a little girl from Akainu even with his entire crew backing him up. Then of course there's the Gorosei flat out saying that the Yonkou and Marco can kick his ass. Stop being ridiculous.

Lol no. Shanks is most likely weaker than an Admiral as is the case with Marco. Oda shot the Marco = Admiral notion down when he explicitly states in the Vol. 59 SBS that all of WB's Captains are equal in strength.

Except for Oda never said that.

He even said that they're not ordered in strength.

The Gorosei already stated flat out that Shanks and Marco are stronger than Teach. You have no argument for Shanks being weaker than an Admiral.

[Franckie]

Laughing at the truth? Teach got fodderized by a half dead Whitebeard and ran away like a little girl from Akainu even with his entire crew backing him up. Then of course there's the Gorosei flat out saying that the Yonkou and Marco can kick his ass. Stop being ridiculous.

Laughing at the truth? Hardly. BB is the weakest fighter in this thread? No. That honor belongs to Shanks based on current hype and feats.

WB fodderized nobody. Yes, WB got two clean shots on BB as he did with Akainu. But WB's attacks did no fatal damage. BB had no problems tanking a quake to the head and a bisento slash across the chest.

Yonkou and Marco are only in a position to kick BB's ass provided they have back-up. Any of the remaining Yonkou would probably lose to BB 1on1. Marco would most certainly lose if said fight is 1on1. BB could win against Akainu, but not without losing at least half his crew and incurring fatal damage to himself.

Except for Oda never said that.

He even said that they're not ordered in strength.

Here's what he says:

Reader: Reader About the Whitebeard Pirates, if there are pirates from the "Whitebeard ally groups", is there a possibility of one of them becoming a commander of the real Whitebeard Pirates itself? Or are the commanders all from the real Whitebeard Pirates from the beginning? P.N. amanuts

Oda: Ok, I'll explain a little about the Whitebeard Pirates. First, captain Whitebeard and the 16 commanders. All 16 commanders, despite numbers and ages have the same strength. All the same. Whitebeard Pirates are just split in 16 groups. The 43 ally pirate ships are not any part of the Whitebeard Pirates and are usually all just scattered everywhere living their own little lives. Yet they are loyal to Whitebeard, and help him in desperate times. They are like that. In Ace's case, the Spade Pirates were destroyed, and all the members joined the Whitebeard Pirates, so he was able to become a commander.

tl;dr - All 16 Captains are equal to each other in the chain of command and in combat strength.

The Gorosei already stated flat out that Shanks and Marco are stronger than Teach.

No.

You have no argument for Shanks being weaker than an Admiral.

You have no argument for Shanks being stronger than an Admiral.

[Calisto]

Laughing at the truth? Hardly. BB is the weakest fighter in this thread? No. That honor belongs to Shanks based on current hype and feats.

Which is why Blackbeard avoided to have a fight with Shanks at Marineford.

Seriously, are you joking or something? Being a Yonkou is plenty of hype.

WB fodderized nobody. Yes, WB got two clean shots on BB as he did with Akainu. But WB's attacks did no fatal damage. BB had no problems tanking a quake to the head and a bisento slash across the chest.

Blackbeard did no damage to WB, he never could even get an attack in. He got owned, he was begging for his life. He was obviously getting fodderized, stop denying something so clear and obvious.

Don't you dare compare Akainu's fight with WB to BB. Not only was Akainu fighting a much stronger WB, but Akainu actually put up a fight and dealt a lethal blow. All Teach did was beg for his life.

Yonkou and Marco are only in a position to kick BB's ass provided they have back-up.

Blackbeard has a crew for back-up as well. And it's obviously Captains vs Captains.

Any of the remaining Yonkou would probably lose to BB 1on1. Marco would most certainly lose if said fight is 1on1.

BB could win against Akainu, but not without losing at least half his crew and incurring fatal damage to himself.

Lol no, Blackbeard along with his entire crew is weaker than Akainu, deal with it. Bleackbeard would get destoryed by Akainu.

Here's what he says:tl;dr - All 16 Captains are equal to each other in the chain of command and in combat strength.

Wrong. This is what's said.

http://www.apforums.net/showpost.php...&postcount=318

Actual useful info:
Whitebeard pirates commanders are not necessary numbered in the order of their strength!
They are equal to each other, and younger number does not necessary mean they are stronger or have more authority.
The 43 allied pirates of WB are, obviously, not part of the WB crew. They however respect Whitebeard, and in the case of need they gather to help.
Ace's case is a little different, since his entire pirate crew was merged into Whitebeard pirates.

The bold shows that there is an order of strength. Then of course, there's the actual manga showing us how the commanders are obviously not equal.

No.

You can be in denial all you want, you're wrong.

You have no argument for Shanks being stronger than an Admiral.

So I guess you don't have any reason as to why Shanks is weaker than an Admiral?

Marco is equal to an Admiral and Shanks being stronger than him.

[Franckie]

Which is why Blackbeard avoided to have a fight with Shanks at Marineford.

Seriously, are you joking or something? Being a Yonkou is plenty of hype.

And as we all know BB being surrounded by Shanks (+crew), MHQ, and the remains of the WB pirates had absolutely nothing to do with BB's decision to flee when given the chance.

Blackbeard did no damage to WB, he never could even get an attack in. He got owned, he was begging for his life. He was obviously getting fodderized, stop denying something so clear and obvious.

Don't you dare compare Akainu's fight with WB to BB. Not only was Akainu fighting a much stronger WB, but Akainu actually put up a fight and dealt a lethal blow. All Teach did was beg for his life.

Stop denying the fact that WB failed to inflict any notable damage on BB when he was allowed two clean shots to do so. WB's failures are no better than BB acting cowardly at the time.

WB's offensive powers hardly decreased even after losing half his face. He cracked Marineford in half and Sengoku comments that WB's power was still formidible.

Blackbeard has a crew for back-up as well. And it's obviously Captains vs Captains.

Marco has 13 dudes like him for backup. None of BB's subordinates are confirmed to be at, or close to, his level with the exception of Shiliew. Marco has the #s advantage and wars are fought by armies, not by individuals.

Are you expecting Luffy's last major opponent to be weaker than any of the Yonkous, especially when BB is already top-tier to begin with?

Lol no, Blackbeard along with his entire crew is weaker than Akainu, deal with it. Bleackbeard would get destoryed by Akainu.

BB Pirates vs Akainu would be BB Pirates vs Ace on a much grander scale. Defeating Akainu isn't worth it because the odds of a pyrrhic victory were too great at the time.

Wrong. This is what's said.

http://www.apforums.net/showpost.php...&postcount=318

The bold shows that there is an order of strength. Then of course, there's the actual manga showing us how the commanders are obviously not equal.

Oda also says they are equal. "They are equal" is the key phrase here.

Your link does not disprove the material I have provided. Both wordings indicate that numbers don't mean anything because all 16 Captains are at the same relative level, and the feats we've seen of the various Captains support that statement.

You can be in denial all you want, you're wrong.

I have a far better understanding of the manga than you do. For example, your comments about the Yonkou in general indicate that you do not understand the single defining characteristic of a Yonkou - the formidible total military power said Yonkou possesses. Is Shanks a threat on his own? No. The 3 Admirals would curbstomp him. Is Shanks a threat when he has people like Benn Beckman, Lucky Roo, and Yasopp standing behind him? Yes. MHQ would have their hands full dealing with Shanks if Shanks were to attack them with everything at his disposal.

So I guess you don't have any reason as to why Shanks is weaker than an Admiral?

Let's see...

- Mihawk quit caring about picking fights with Shanks after Shanks lost an arm and has his eyes set on someone else
- Shanks is a swordsman and the arm he lost is his dominant hand
- There needs to be villains that are stronger than Shanks, otherwise Luffy doesn't have to fight those villains. Oda can have Shanks do it in Luffy's place.

Any one of these reasons alone would be strong circumstantial evidence that Shanks is weaker than an Admiral. Collectively its a shy away of Oda explicitly saying that Shanks is weaker than an Admiral.

Marco is equal to an Admiral and Shanks being stronger than him.

Your assessments of their respective strengths are pure conjecture without any real support from the manga. Marco did squat to Admirals even when he sneak attacked them. Oda has also explicitly stated that Marco is equal to the other Captains, two of which have been defeated by an Admiral (Jozu + Curiel). Marco is not an Admiral's equal. Shanks is in the same boat for reasons I have already outlined.

[eefrit]

About Shanks and Mihawk, maybe it is because Mihawk feels it is no point in fighting someone without an arm. It is not a matter of strength but probably a matter of pride. I remember a databook translation stating that Shanks didn't lose any power. I believe it was the Yellow Databook. There doesn't need to be anyone stronger than Shanks, equal maybe but not stronger.

Besides the book isn't about Shanks it is about Luffy, why would Shanks go out of his way to fight someone who isn't in his way? Luffy is making his own adventures and he will fight his own battles. Yonkous are pirates who are the closest to conquering the Grand Line, which means that they have some sort of incredible power. Someone like the fake Luffy could not make it in the New World on manipulation only.

Marco has been shown to have enough power to keep up with the admirals, which in this world can mean things can go a whole bunch of ways. Add that to the fact that he has a regenerative devil fruit, he has no other marines following him, and he doesn't have to worry about his dying captain, he should be pretty good for the fight. I'm also going to assume that he was the First mate of the Whitebeard pirates, which means he could be stronger than the rest of the commanders. That translation from apforums had a lot of "not necessarily in it meaning that there is some sort of strength difference in the crew.

Blackbeard is strong as crap; however his strength is matched only by his arrogance and stupidity. He had a weakened Whitebeard on the ropes and could have crushed him but he was gloating and got a blade to the chest as a result. Even after tanking that though, he and his crew tanked an attack from Sengoku several times. As for running away against Akainu, that is possibly the smartest thing he had done in this whole manga. Why fight a strong opponent and risk losing all you worked for (criminals and gura gura no mi). This is not to say he would have lost, but he sure as hell would have not gotten away easily and without losses.

As for the fight I'd say they tie but since they option isn't given, the Pirates win round 2. Gura Gura is the deal breaker.