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Translations: Bleach 600 by BadKarma
Priscilla is simply too powerful. sure clare did use teresas flesh and blood but that doesnt mean its enough to beat priscilla.even if clare awakens she will fail and lose. priscilla has much greater strength than an abyssal one. theres nothing clare can do
Forgive my unusually emotional response, but you have managed to seriously anger me. If you read Claymore, you find a common theme. There are always individuals fighting what appear to be a hopeless cause. There's the will and the determination to overcome the impossible.
I don't know if you read the later chapters. If you haven't, you will recognize the error of your statement. Remember what makes a warrior "Fit for Battle."
here's my take on it:
First of all, half of the entire point of the manga story/plot line is Clare's journey/mission of revenge against Priscilla. The other half is dealing with the Organization, being that it is the cause of everything bad on the island.
Second of all, whether or not Clare gives up or not, Priscilla won't, as Clare has Teresa's flesh, and that is the only remaining threat to Priscilla, which she'll pursue until she has removed (killed) that threat "again for a 2nd time".
Third of all, Clare has temporarily succeeding in sealing Priscilla, already. If Clare can keep Priscilla sealed permanently, then Clare has defeated Priscilla and gotten her revenge.
Fourth of all, if the sealing of Clare+Priscilla+Destroyer fails, we don't know what will result from it. Whether they all 3 become free, or not. Whether they are stuck together or not. Etc, etc.
Fifth of all, let's look at the battle Clare already had with Priscilla:
While Clare did quite well (Priscilla+Projectiles from the Destroyer), Priscilla was not trying at all, and then she proves her total Power Level Superiority over Clare.
Unfortunately, Partially Awakened Clare's battle with Priscilla is inconclusive. Priscilla didn't seem worried at all by Partially Awakened Clare, so this suggests that even Partially Awakened Clare was no match for Priscilla. However, something/someone was preventing Partially Awakened Clare from killing Priscilla, mysteriously seen with Clare's Huge Blade Arms stopping just an inch from Priscilla's face. This suggests that maybe Partially Awakened Clare could actually kill Priscilla. Yet, why didn't Priscilla even flinch with the Huge Blade Arms just an inch from her face, nor showing any other signs of concern? Surely, if Priscilla's head is destroyed she'd die, you'd think as that is always death for any being in Claymore manga, unless of course it's a fake head. So far though Priscilla doesn't seem to have this unique body type that some Awakeneds do, allowing them to create a fake body.
So, we just don't know if Partially Awakened Clare could rival and/or defeat Priscilla.
And then there is of course a Fully Awakened Clare as well to consider.
I'd say Clare probably still can't even rival Priscilla at this point. She's just simply not powerful enough. However, Clare certainly has, can, and would continue to improve and become more powerful, and thus eventually be able to rival and defeat Priscilla, being as usually the protagonist is almost always planned to triumph, lol. Though, this is Claymore, so maybe Clare will ultimately fail...
However, as of right now, this is all moot, as Clare+Priscilla+Destroyer are stuck sealed together.
Lastly, here's Clare's very own direct answer to your very question:
chapter 37 pages 19-20
chapter 38 pages 9-13, 16, and 23-24
chapter 39 pages 29-31
chapter 40 pages 21
etc... (such as Clare's very words to Deneve+Helen right before she battles Priscilla)
Last edited by HegemonKhan; February 05, 2011 at 01:24 AM.
I was just going to comment that Claire chasing Priscilla for revenge IS the plot. Silver eyed blondes in skin-tight outfits hopping around and killing monsters is just an added bonus for many people.
So yeah, Priscilla's hecka strong. But Claire and the others are slowly discovering the mystery behind Youma and Awakened Beings, and that will probably be eventually Priscilla's undoing. That just seems to be where this manga is heading. So I'd just sit tight and enjoy the ride.
^ The thing that goes against all of that obviously, is that now Clare is meant to be 'part of that thing'. I'm guessing 'that thing' is the Luciela/Rafaela being. As part of that thing, could she manage to actually win against Priscilla? Honestly, I doubt it.
That said though, as much as I think she might not be able to kill her, I can't see her giving up on it. She said several times that Theresa was the only reason she continues to live. She would have nothing without that one goal in front of her. Since she became a Claymore with Theresa becoming part of her... she can't really revert back. She can't let it go, she can't forget about it. It's just not possible.
most of us use "Destroyer" for what you call "that thing", which was priorly the half-merged bodies of Rafaela+Luciela
Goral and others on other sites likes to use Raciela (Rafaela+Luciela)
and on another site, some still use "Mary".
though, I'd say using Destroyer is best, as everyone knows what you mean by it (it's the most universally known name for "it" or what you call "that thing").
for more detail+my speculations about the Destroyer:
Destroyer = the (new) entity/being/soul created inside of Rafaela's brain along side with Rafaela's, from Rafaela failing to do whatever (this is possibly what "info about Luciela" that Rubel had. the question is whether Rubel told her how to save-revert Luciela or how to create a being even more powerful then the Destroyer, but in either accord, she failed, lol) she subconsciously (according to Riful, so I'm not sure if this was actually a subconscious act as I speculated just a bit earlier about Rubel's info about Luciela) was trying to do with Luciela's corpse (Rafaela had just killed Luciela, crushing her to death), which then overpowered both Rafaela and Clare, taking control over the half-merged bodies of Rafaela's+dead Luciela's, and then Awakening them into Teresa's cherished form, the Twin Goddesses of Love. Only Teresa knew about and cared about this. Not Rafaela. Clare knew of it (as Teresa told her of it), but didn't care, not like Teresa did. I'll leave the further speculation into the "air".
Clare and Destroyer "merging", then "Clare-Destroyer" protecting Deneve+Helen from Priscilla and then attacking Priscilla too, and finally "Clare-Destroyer" sealing Priscilla into the "blob of three" (Clare+Priscilla+Destroyer):
chapter 104 pages 28-31
chapter 105 pages 1-32, (notice page 1, the cover page, saying: scene 105 - [Clare's] Revenge's [against Priscilla's] course)
chapter 109 pages 5-12, (specifically 12)
Manga summary mixed with my own assessment and theories too:
Clare's able to Partially Awaken ~2 more times AFTER her Huge Blade Arms retract their first time. So it's not that Clare can't Partially Awaken. What Clare can't do is: Kill Priscilla, as can be seen with Partially Awakened Clare's Huge Blade Arms mysteriously+strangely stopping an inch from her face! So why does this happen? Why does Partially Awakened Clare stop her Huge Blade Arms an inch from impaling/tearing apart/destroying Priscilla's face? Well, let's explore this. Clare has NO reason to not kill Priscilla, I mean that's been her entire mission and half of the entire point of the manga's plot, lol. Clare makes it clear that she WANTS to kill Priscilla, due to her love of her beloved Teresa, and that Priscilla taking beloved Teresa away from Clare and destroying that small niche of happiness and humanity that they found in being toegether. Also, Clare has Ophelia's burden of revenge/justice "on her shoulders" as well, poor Ophelia's brother was killed by Priscilla as well. Clare promised Ophelia that she'd get revenge/justice for both (herself and Ophelia) of them, that she would carry on Ophelia's quest of revenge/justice for her. Well, if Clare didn't stop herself then who/what did and who/what could? Deneve thinks its the trauma of Jean's death and her wish, that is effecting Clare mentally. But this is dead wrong. And here's why. Jean knew NOTHING about Priscilla, so Jean had no reason to want Clare to keep Priscilla alive, lol. Jean also had no problem with killing Awakeneds, as they were monsters to her, so again Jean had no reason to want Clare to not kill Priscilla. What Jean DID want was to not become an Awakened, and in that strong desire/will, she amazingly held off the Awakening (when the brain/mind is taken over by the Yoma flesh), despite her entire body already changing into an Awakened's body, staying a Claymore, preventing her Awakening, preventing herself from becoming an Awakened. But, she couldn't resist forever, but thankfully Clare helped lower her yoki and saved Jean from becoming what she'd rather die then become, an Awakened, a monster. This of course made Jean into a HA. Well, Jean then ends up able to repay Clare, saving Clare from becoming an Awakened after Partially Awakened Clare kills Rigardo, before she dies from Rigardo's earlier attack. This is what Jean wanted, Clare not becoming an Awakened, a monster. Now, you're saying that, this is exactly it, Clare can't Partially Awaken because it would defy precious Jean's wish/desire. Yet, Clare did Partially Awaken ~ 3 times, as Clare herself desired more to kill Priscilla; for her own sake, for Teresa's, for Ophelia's, for Ophelia's brother's, for Sophia's, for Noel's, for Irene's, and for the 4 Alphonse towns' entire human populations; than Jean's wish for Clare to not Awaken. Also, Clare wasn't Awakening, as she seemed to have learned to control her Partial Awakening, unlike in Pieta, where Jean had to help. So then if not Jean, then who/what? Maybe someone with more control over Clare, who meant more to Clare, like Teresa and her flesh in Clare's body. Teresa did not want to kill Priscilla (Teresa: ~"Argh!, everytime I'm about to kill Priscilla, I look at her face, and I see Clare's face"), and she wanted Clare to "live as a human, live with humans, and die as a human. that must be the greatest happiness in this life". Well, clearly Teresa didn't understand Clare at all. Teresa's wish was to be human again (Teresa: ~"I miss my beautiful black hair and my black [all black like a demon child in horror movies -SCARY!, or just the pupil as black? lol] eyes"). Humanity was Teresa's concept of happiness and Teresa's yearning desire/wish. But not Clare's, no, Clare didn't want to be a human, she already had been a human and it was awful, no what Clare wanted was: (Clare, stripping naked in front of the Rokut townspeople, to Teresa: "I don't want nice clothes. I don't want nice shoes. I just want to be with Teresa forever!"). And when Priscilla took away a Teresa (though Priscilla in a perverted/tainted way DID grant Clare's wish/desire, as with Teresa's flesh now inside Clare, Clare will always be "with Teresa forever". Clare should thank Priscilla, lol), Priscilla took away everything from Clare, as Teresa was Clare's life, her beloved Teresa. With Priscilla taking away Clare's life and happiness (Teresa), all Clare had left to live for was revenge/justice. Oh, does Clare want to kill Priscilla, yes she does! So, its my theory that "Teresa" is preventing Clare from killing Priscilla, wanting Clare to have mercy on Priscilla just as she-Teresa had, as Priscilla is a victim of the Org just like all of them are, but because Clare keeps trying to kill Priscilla, Clare's is instead prevented from having the power to do so, by preventing her from being able to Partially Awaken (after her ~3rd attempt). Now either "Teresa" is "alive" and directly-physically controlling Clare's body through her-Teresa's flesh inside of Clare, or Clare's subconscious psyche is forcing herself not to as it would defy Teresa's wish/desire. I further theorize that the desired outcome of "Teresa" is actually for Clare to "save" (de-awaken/revert) Priscilla, instead! We've been seeing hints of humanity remaining in the ABs and AOs, which suggest that Awakening isn't actually permenant nor a full elimination of their humanity, which suggests that it can be undone... hehe.
Last edited by HegemonKhan; February 06, 2011 at 04:13 PM.
Priscilla was clearly outclassed by Teresa and we all know how that turned out. If a superior opponent is caught off-guard then they can be beaten. It has happened many time during this series.
the problem with Priscilla, is that until against the Destroyer, she wasn't using her full power, and also in many battles as well, she wasn't even taking it seriously. She even thus sustained heavy damage too.
the problem is that with so much power, she seemingly can Regenerate indefinately, including major damage done to her. Arguably, we haven't seen Priscilla as damaged as the AFs, and so haven't seen her Regeneration quite at their extreme level of Regeneration, but it's the next best after them.
And so, she's already been "caught off guard", yet she is still alive. Albiet, no one has yet successfully gone for her head. Partially Awakened Clare had done so, but as we know mysteriously her Huge Blade Arms STOPPED an inch from Priscilla's head. So, was Partially Awakened Clare about to kill Priscilla? And if she was, why was Priscilla so unphased... or would that not have killed Priscilla, and thus it would then seem Priscilla is invincible, if damage/destruction to her head doesn't kill her... or did Priscilla somehow know that Clare's attack would stop... ???
I not entirely sure Priscilla was ever really caught off-guard during her fights after the destroyer awakens. Although that wasn't the entire point I was trying to make. I thought the OP's argument was shaky and just wanted to illustrate that stronger characters have lost to weaker characters in this series. Now that I think about I could see Priscilla's downfall being linked to regaining her memories.
I didn't read your early post until today since that wall of text looked daunting and I'm feeling under the weather. It is an interesting theory. However, wasn't Teresa ready to take Priscilla's head once Priscilla crossed her event horizon. So unless Teresa has an active consciousness inside Clare she wouldn't even think it possible to come back from awakening.
I like to write a lot, I'm very verbose! sorry!
that's a good point. I forgot to consider the contradictions of Teresa with killing Clare.
Teresa was going to kill Priscilla right in front of Clare (in the town), but Irene rushed in just in time to parry Teresa's sword from decapitating Priscilla.
But then Teresa sends Clare away to "get her clothes/things" so that she can execute Priscilla without Clare seeing it, but we know she chooses not to.
then right before what would be her death, Teresa is again willing to kill Priscilla in front of Clare.
back and forth... I forgot to consider this.
and your 2nd point is excellent too! both your points I didn't consider or realize. great insight!!!
though I think my argument can still "stand" as I could argue, that "now Teresa" pities Priscilla, and want's Clare to de-awaken/revert Priscilla, like she had done with Jean.
and there's STILL the problem of: if not Teresa (or Clare herself) then who? BOTH Rafaela and Jean do NOT know of Priscilla at all.
Last edited by HegemonKhan; February 07, 2011 at 07:19 PM.
These postings brings up questions perhaps someone can clarify.
Since Clare has both Teresa and Irene as part her physical body, to what extent do the remnants of their personalities, if any, affect Clare? Clare has in past scenes actually addressed both Teresa and Irene as if they were present (within her?). Of course, the mental contents of Rafaela's mind further complicates the situation.
Clare appears something out of Carl Jung, a sort of mini-collective unconscious, or a animal colony of the mind, though this scenario is probably far fetched. But the incident in Pieta, where the Awakened Being failed to control Irene's arm may be proof that the arm operates semi-independent of Clare.
Also wonder about Dae's project: how will Priscilla's memories affect the three new Abyssal Ones? Some readers think their minds will be as blank as the Abyss Eaters. Others readers aren't too sure as to this. The much anticipated return of Teresa, with Priscilla's flesh, would certainly confuse the situation!
Last edited by jamie95403; March 09, 2011 at 09:58 AM.
Now that is a very good question, Priscilla Yoki is so powerful that one, dead arm can revive 3 dead No. 1. It maybe be an Armageddon or Apocalypse, or both, but We will see what Yagi is up to
And about Clare body parts, I think that part of Teresa has more influence to Her behavior, than Irene / Ilene arm. The arm is only a highly trained in full awakened state to use Quick Sword technique, piece of meat, and Clare is "just yet" to week to fully control it awakening and this is affected all of Her body. Uncontrollable Yoki flow.
And Teresa part, a head... Who know? Maybe Yomas flesh, have some kind of physical memory, that in implantation process affects mind of future user? Like with this bug, who once passed labyrinth. And than when get killed and eaten for another bugs, this bugs can pass labyrinth too, but never before do it early. It is a very strange kind of DNA memory. And I think that this is for sure responsible for skills and power that Claymore have. The best example is Raki, which trained Him self to be able to kill Yoma, but He was not able to sense it.
Maybe what Clair has seen during Her pass out after being beaten by Mira is merely a reminiscence of Teresa fight against execution squad. It must be trauma, that surly made it influence on Her. About Teresa's dead I even don't mention here, that is the trigger off all that story. That is why I doubt about Teresa consciousness, I rather think that this DNA memory made Clare able to switch Yoki power level higher, but with more accuracy and control. She get an excellent trained material on Her implantation, but it was a material, that extremely rarely use even 10% of available power, and what it will be on 100%....
Now in blob, the only consciousness that have matter is Clare, Priscilla, and Rafaela. We had seen, that Luciella is dead as person and consciousness. And I think that Teresa reminiscence, if present see above, will be to small to affects to the rest of it.
It is a shame, that Yagi does not made "yet" chapter with psyche fight inside the blob. Maybe next one, some break after Miria Miracle and to sustain the tension
What is from medical point strange to me, that Clare just took an arm put it, merge it, and than live, more or less happy, without some immunosuppression drugs. No serological conflict, no GvH, no rejection. In that matter I am really interested in Claymore immunological system :P
But, it is really don't have matter, and it is only My speculation with that immunosuppression :P Since We can have a lot of fun reading manga and waiting with impatiently on next chapters
And finally My answer to the topic :P "Forgive to be forgiven, or eye for eye"?
Anyway She choose to do, it will be only Her decision. When after She can sleep peacefully, or be dead, what comes to the same point, She must try, otherwise She can not make any progress in Her journey. Anyway it will be Yagis decision, but dumped on Clare shoulders.
Have a nice evening
Last edited by colonywars; March 10, 2011 at 10:40 AM.
The new Abyssal Ones may well have the potential of being Medieval Doomsday Machines, wiping out all life on the island. But the series "has" to continue, so this scenario is unlikely, unless it moves to the mainland (or they rebuild the island).
BTW, it's not impossible for Yagi to kill off Clare and other main characters and continue with other new ones. Again unlikely, but not impossible. We've all seen that happen before in other series.
And in a hypothetical situation, if Clare met Raftela, assuming Irene's arm had a mind of its own, what would the arm do if Clare's mind started hallucinating?
Regarding that Yoki cocoon, everyone's waiting to see what's happening inside.
And in regards to Clare's quest for revenge: we should expect some “teachable moment” as the politicians and political pundits would say. Hope it's not too corny and that at the end of the crescendo, we are genuinely, emotionally affected.
Last edited by jamie95403; March 09, 2011 at 03:38 PM.
“teachable moment” ech, that is about what I am concern, that after so brilliant twist of events Yagi will slow down emotions, and maybe He will then explain that blob "thing" and after some another month of waiting and debating, He will pull the action over the limits
And that is why this waiting is so exciting
A doomsday machine... jamie95403, that is even bigger thing, that I considered, but I think that putting Priscilla yoki and flesh into resurrected No. 1 won't do anything good... Then I am wonder... Who will possibly stop that Machine?
But Who don't like that kind of twists?
Have a nice day
To return to the original subject title (hoping it was sincere and not a troll), there are many things we think others should do, but they are they and we are us. The old Native American proverb: "Never judge someone till you walk a mile in their moccasins" has much wisdom in it.
And that Reinhold Niebuhr quote we're all probably sick of hearing: "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."
Cliches aside, we cannot change Clare's quest for revenge, any more than we can turn Priscilla into Mother Teresa. Those of us who oppose her goal can at least try to understand and not judge her. And spare a bit of empathy if you can find it within yourself. Even for a fictional character.
The Claymore series is a sort of litmus test of the soul (end of editorial).
Last edited by jamie95403; March 13, 2011 at 02:24 AM.