Zaraki Kenpachi vs Tia Harribel

[UchihaHunter]

Lol so she runs around the entire time and never defeats Kenpachi? Despite the goal for both sides being the defeat of the other?

[Broken_Wing]

@ Gran Maestro

This is what Im taking about:

I almost wanna vote for Kenpachi just because hes a demon and always finds some way to win....its a tough call.

Im not suprised if 90% of the votes for Kenpachi is JUST because hes so GAR.

Im looking at his resume (feats, personality, figthing style) and unfortunately hes just not suitable for the job (imo).

Lol so she runs around the entire time and never defeats Kenpachi? Despite the goal for both sides being the defeat of the other?

She packs more power than Ulquiorra R1 so no, she DOES damage him from a distance, and while Kenny tanks a couple...hes never going to get close. GG Kenpachi

[Gran Maestro]

@ Gran Maestro

This is what Im taking about:

Unfortunately, most people seem to vote for their favourite characters if they think their character has the slightest bit of chance to defeat his/her opponent. They don't give much thought about the potential scenarios with most likely outcomes, they just feel their character would probably figure out a way to win, which doesn't give much room for discussion.

I don't think Harribel is weak, IMO she is on par with fan favourite Ulquiorra R2, and it's not a stretch to say that Harribel can defeat Kenpachi, especially considering that Kenpachi may be reluctant to do his best until it's too late. But I guess even Kenpachi can sense danger, for example he acknowledged that it would be dangerous for Yammy's cero to hit him, and he dodged the attack. I don't think it would take long for Kenpachi to deduce that Harribel is a serious threat.

Anyway, even if we disagree, at least we tried to explain our POV in a way that has coherent qualities and that attempts to make sense. It's rare to have these kind of discussions, which require contribution from both sides. (thanks for that) I tried to have a similar discussion in Kensei vs Shinji thread but all I got was "Shinji's shikai is unbeatable, end of story." People can certainly vote for Shinji but they could at least try to understand what I was saying. I guess the mods would also like to see a better discussion with good arguments from both sides but it seems people don't even like to consider the possibility that Shinji's shikai can logically be defeated with the bankai of a captain who isn't a weakling compared to Shinji.

[Raizen]

Great job both Gran And Broken Wing.

I was hoping someone would make great arguments for both ken and halibel and u guys did.

As much as I like ken, he has his work cut out for him. Despite what others believe, halibel is no slouch.. and neither is hitsu but that is another topic .
I think I will vote for halibel

[freshseth83]

She's not a slouch but she'll have to do something seriously physically powerful to defeat Ken. And when it comes to that, Ken loves it. He does gauge his opponents well, he understood that Ichigo talked to his sword in order to win. If he was a mindless brute it'd be no question that she'd win. But he isn't. He's super strong yeah, but he knows his own limits, however high they are. If Nnoitra's words are true, he's the STRONGEST espada in terms of physical strenght, yet Ken could catch his swords. He ate his attacks. He just got out of his mindset when he was so caught up in the heat of battle. That's what he lives for, the high he gets from being on the verge of death. Then when he gets there, its over for his opponent. He wasted all that time just to feel like he was getting a good fight. Getting cut, getting hurt, injured to the point where if he kept going he would die. In this tourny, he isn't out to just prove a point, he's there to win. His reiatsu is almost seemingly endless. Who says he can't spawn multiple kendo attacks?

[Calisto]

Kenpachi takes this fight.

Honestly, people keep bringing up how Harribel is a long range fighter and how Kenpachi won't be able to keep up with her and all that jazz, but all of that is completely irrelevant. Harribel prefers close range combat.

That's how she was fighting Hitsugaya in base.

That's how she was fighting the Vizards.

And that's how she attacked Aizen.

The only reason that she was resorting to long range attacks against Hitsugaya to begin with was because Hitsugaya kept on running away from her (because she owned him in CQC), heck, she even goes out of her way to taunt Hitsugaya to fight her in CQC, so it's pretty clear that CQC is Harribel's preferred style of fighting, and that's what she's the best in.

Now then, Kenpachi simply has much better CQC feats than Harribel does.

- Superior offense.

- Superior endurance.

- Superior reaction timing.

In other words, Kenpachi is pretty much superior to Harribel in everything that is relevant to CQC.

Now, Cascada is really an overrated attack. When Harribel attacked Hitsugaya with it, (mind you, she had Hitsugaya's ice to strength her Cascada, she won't have this against Kenpachi) Hitsugaya was able to block it with a mere chunk of ice, the same chunk of ice that he sliced in two with a mere casual sword swing. Yeah, Cascada isn't doing jack to Kenpachi, not like an IC Harribel would even use that in the first place to begin with.

[hakuthehedgehog]

Harribel's water attacks were negated by Hitsugaya's, in the same way Hitsugaya's ice attacks were negated by Harribel's water attacks: water can be turned into ice and ice can be turned into water, which is why the fight was a stalemate until Hitsugaya owned her with HH.

Now, the reason Harribel wanted to fight in close combat against Hitsugaya was because is was apparent that she was better than Hitsugaya in close combat, while Hitsugaya wanted to fight in long range, where he had the advantage.

Harribel isn't stupid: she has shown to be thoughtful and analytical, and since it is apparent that Kenpaichi prefers close combat, she'll switch to long range and wear Kenpaichi down with multiple Cascadas.



While the first water attacks might not do much to Kenpaichi, they'll get progressively stronger, and Harribel's ultimate water attack should be stronger than Ulquiorra's Cero Oscuras in R1, seeing as Harribel is ranked higher than him.

Also, if Harribel's prefered attack style was CQC, her stronger attack wouldn't be something that was built on long ranged attack, Harribel is good at both long range and close range, as shown in her fight against Hitsugaya.

Also, if Aizen couldn't one shot Harribel after getting part of her reatsu sucked by HH, then Kenpaichi isn't going to OHKO her like he did to Nnoitra.

[Tenacious Weezy]

Also, if Aizen couldn't one shot Harribel after getting part of her reatsu sucked by HH, then Kenpaichi isn't going to OHKO her like he did to Nnoitra.

Tough call on this one. If Harribel was depleted or not I'd still say Nnoitras released Hierro is still greater than Harribels released Hierro. I'll give her credit for surviving the attack from Aizen but at the same time Aizen did a casual swipe he obviously didn't think enough of her until she tried to counter attack. Also Kenpachi was cutting up Yammy as well who had strong Hierro with eye-patch on and not a full strength.

[hakuthehedgehog]

Tough call on this one. If Harribel was depleted or not I'd still say Nnoitras released Hierro is still greater than Harribels released Hierro. I'll give her credit for surviving the attack from Aizen but at the same time Aizen did a casual swipe he obviously didn't think enough of her until she tried to counter attack. Also Kenpachi was cutting up Yammy as well who had strong Hierro with eye-patch on and not a full strength.

Aizen did want to kill her, it wasn't a casual swipe and he thought he had killed her, otherwise he wouldn't had sheated his sword: http://mangable.com/bleach/chapter-376/02/

But an Aizen cut, even if casual, is probably comparable to Kenpaichi's Kendo, and Harribel didn't even block it because of the surprise factor.

[Calisto]

Harribel isn't stupid: she has shown to be thoughtful and analytical, and since it is apparent that Kenpaichi prefers close combat, she'll switch to long range and wear Kenpaichi down with multiple Cascadas.

The Vizards also preferred close combat, yet the "analytical" Harribel didn't switch to long range.

While the first water attacks might not do much to Kenpaichi, they'll get progressively stronger, and Harribel's ultimate water attack should be stronger than Ulquiorra's Cero Oscuras in R1, seeing as Harribel is ranked higher than him.

What makes you think that Cascada would even hit Kenpachi in the first place? Kenpachi was able to casually dodge Yammy's gigantic cero.

Also, if Harribel's prefered attack style was CQC, her stronger attack wouldn't be something that was built on long ranged attack, Harribel is good at both long range and close range, as shown in her fight against Hitsugaya.

Based on what?

Also, if Aizen couldn't one shot Harribel after getting part of her reatsu sucked by HH, then Kenpaichi isn't going to OHKO her like he did to Nnoitra.

She didn't get any reitasu sucked from HH because the ability of HH didn't even take place yet when WW saved her otherwise she would have died. The attack didn't fail. It wasn't meant to kill her instantly, she wasn't supposed to die until the petals fell.

[hajialibaig]

Harribel is a Vasto-Lorde level espada. Add in her speed, long range attacks, superior thinking abilities, and she takes this one.

The only reason Kenpachi downed Yammi (With the help of Byakuya) and Nnoitra:

1) Yammy is akin to a giant immobile rock, a glutton to be hacked down
2) Nnoitra, over confident, closed range fighter

---

Kenpachi takes this fight.

Honestly, people keep bringing up how Harribel is a long range fighter and how Kenpachi won't be able to keep up with her and all that jazz, but all of that is completely irrelevant. Harribel prefers close range combat.

That's how she was fighting Hitsugaya in base.

That's how she was fighting the Vizards.

And that's how she attacked Aizen.

The only reason that she was resorting to long range attacks against Hitsugaya to begin with was because Hitsugaya kept on running away from her (because she owned him in CQC), heck, she even goes out of her way to taunt Hitsugaya to fight her in CQC, so it's pretty clear that CQC is Harribel's preferred style of fighting, and that's what she's the best in.

Now then, Kenpachi simply has much better CQC feats than Harribel does.

- Superior offense.

- Superior endurance.

- Superior reaction timing.

In other words, Kenpachi is pretty much superior to Harribel in everything that is relevant to CQC.

Now, Cascada is really an overrated attack. When Harribel attacked Hitsugaya with it, (mind you, she had Hitsugaya's ice to strength her Cascada, she won't have this against Kenpachi) Hitsugaya was able to block it with a mere chunk of ice, the same chunk of ice that he sliced in two with a mere casual sword swing. Yeah, Cascada isn't doing jack to Kenpachi, not like an IC Harribel would even use that in the first place to begin with.

Irrelevant. Harribel is smart enough to adjust her fighting style based on her opponents. Doesn't matter if you think she prefers CQC, in a battle for survival, she'll use long range attacks only and stay out of reach.

[Calisto]

Irrelevant. Harribel is smart enough to adjust her fighting style based on her opponents. Doesn't matter if you think she prefers CQC, in a battle for survival, she'll use long range attacks only and stay out of reach.

Too bad you don't have a single example or shred of proof to support this.

[hakuthehedgehog]

Too bad you don't have a single example or shred of proof to support this.

Harribel has both close ranged and long ranged attacks, and she fought Hitsugaya with long ranged attacks, because Hitsuagaya insisted on keeping the distance.

Harribel taunted him to go to CQC because she knows she is stronger in CQC than him.

And the 3 of them attacked Harribel, and she was defending herself (with no problem too)

We know that Harribel can adapt in combat: when it was clear that Hitsugaya wouldn't fight in close ranged, she started building moisture for her most powerful attack with long ranged attacks, seeing as each other negated their attacks.

Also, I don't recall Harribel ever using a water technique that wasn't a projectile, so I think it's safe to assume that her ultimate attack is or can be, considering her ability to control water, a gigantic Cascada, bigger than FKT, that Hitsugaya couldn't turn into ice and would OHKO.

I don't think it's farefeched that Harribel can keep herself out of Kenpaichi reach while she builds up water and then use a gigantic Cascada, much bigger than Yammy's cero, and then uses it repeadatly until Kenpaichi is finished, which was exactly what she wass trying to do against Hitsugaya until she was owned by HH.

[benelori]

I give this to Kenpachi, because Harribel has nothing on him, maybe except speed...but even so when it comes to reacting to attacks Kenpachi does a really good job, so he can evade and I have the feeling that most of the water based attacks or Cero will be stopped by Kenpachi bare-handed...so in my eyes the long range advantage of Harribel is pretty weak...

Kenpachi has devastating attacks, and IMO the fight will be decided in close range combat...and Kenpachi owns in close range combat

[Calisto]

when it was clear that Hitsugaya wouldn't fight in close ranged,

There we go.

Kenpachi will always want to fight in close range combat and he won't ever try to run like Hitsugaya did.