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View Poll Results: Who wins?

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  • Shunsui

    61 54.95%
  • Gin

    50 45.05%
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Thread: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Ichimaru Gin

  1. #61
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Ichimaru Gin

    Quote Originally Posted by Orxon View Post
    Gin wins this one for sure. He's obviously not going to mess around with Shunsui like he did with Ichigo and his bankai is just far too deadly. He literally just needs one hit and I highly doubt Shunsui can defeat Gin without sustaining a single scratch.

    Shunsui's shikai is also pretty deadly but he's going to be on the defensive for the majority of this fight, kageoni is the only real threat here but I don't think it's enough to kill Gin.
    Irooni is the main detrimental thing that we seen from Shunsui that ended Starrk's life. Gin's bankai may be fast, but he said it wasn't as fast as he stated, and it didn't extend as far as he stated. He has to touch you after he stabs you in order for the poison to activate, which is going to be hard to do when Shunsui forces him to play the color game. Gin will get the 2nd attack since Shunsui is the initiator. Once that happens it's over. Shunsui doesn't have to be a 'nice guy' and tell Gin the rules. In fact if they're both wearing their captains uniforms, it's potentially over in the first move. The only reason Shunsui let Starrk off by slicing his arm on the first call is because he was giving him a fair shot by telling him the rules. In this scenario he doesn't have to explain anything. He'll just call a color and it can be over. Shunsui throws off his pink kimono and says 'Irooni, white' and with the reiatsu he possesses plus the amount of white he's wearing, he'll definitely kill Gin with one strike. He did the same to Starrk. He called 'black' while wearing ALL black, and aimed right at the vital spots of Starrk, basically cleaving him in half.

    He didn't have to attack Starrk's arm, he could have went for the body. How are you going to block something that went through Starrk's arm but didn't even cut it off? That's the weird thing about Irooni. It states that the damage dealt is equal to the risk of yourself, or the amount of risk that the color you just stated would cause harm to yourself. In other words Starrk's call of white would do the greatest damage to himself if Shunsui were to call white. Which was the most predominantly featured color. He gave Shunsui his best shot, and Ultimately didn't win. Now if you think Gin is stronger than Starrk, I guess you might as well vote for him. I frankly don't believe that at all.
    Last edited by freshseth83; March 06, 2011 at 06:49 AM.

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  3. #62
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member SaintSheik's Avatar
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Ichimaru Gin

    I picture the majority of these fights in FK and for shikai Shunsui to have a much better shot against Bankai Gin, I think would have to be wearing this:
    Last edited by igotthegoods; March 06, 2011 at 08:43 AM. Reason: removed [img] tags from hotlinked image

  4. #63
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Buzz Killington's Avatar
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Ichimaru Gin

    This fight goes to Shunsui Kyoraku.

    Gin's Bankai is very straightforward in its attack. You can see it, you can block it, you can react to it. The speed of the Bankai won't be anything Kyoraku cannot handle, Gin's best chances at getting a legit hit would arise in his cleverness in finding or creating openings. He's very good at this, however, I would say Shunsui is even better

    Games like Kageoni and Iro Oni seal the deal, with Kageoni of course only working if the two are fighting on the ground, which given Gin's tendencies, is bound to happen.

    Imagine as he tries to use Buto Rejin, Shunsui stabs into the shadow and takes out one of his legs. Thing's don't look good for Fox Face here

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  6. #64
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Ichimaru Gin

    Doesn't matter to me what color he wears, both outfits are white. Underneath Shunsui's pink kimono is his white captains robe, so he tosses it like he did here and confuses Gin like he did Starrk here and finally cut Gin down like he did here. The end.

  7. #65
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner MidnightAngel's Avatar
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Ichimaru Gin

    Gin wins. Shuunsui is a monster but his shikai won't help him in a 1v1 situation. In FKT he had to wait before Katen Kyōkotsu got in good mood, and then attack Starrk from behind while he was distracted by Love and Rose. In this situation no one is going to help him getting a cheap shot on Gin, furthermore i don't think Shuunsui could avoid a point blank hit fro Shinso.

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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Ichimaru Gin

    For me it's pretty simple that Shunsui wins. It's just too strange that people overrate Gin so much. Of course Gin is strong and his Bankai is dangerous, but Shunsui escaped Starrk's Cero Metralieta very easy and his Shikai is rather broken and we can assume that he would have great advantage in colour game and can one shot Gin during colour game, cause Gin has one colour on him.
    Also... it was pretty well stated by Yama and by First Databook that Shunsui only is lower than Yama, Aizen and Unohana among Captains of Gotei.

    Also about the fact that Shunsui's Shikai is moody... It's pretty clear that there isn't fixed limit to how long it needs to get in the mood. It can easily be posible to use it from get-go. Also Gin's Bankai isn't that fast as people try to see. If mind-fucked Ichigo could still counter it and even hurt Gin I'm pretty sure that Shunsui will be able to do way better.

  9. #67
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member SaintSheik's Avatar
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Ichimaru Gin

    I'm pretty sure Shikai Shunsui, the same one we're using for this tournament, had trouble with Starrk and his ceros. It can be seen here. That and the databooks are one thing but there are other things to consider such as abilities that characters themselves hold back from everyone else (Aizen and Gin are prime examples of this).

  10. #68
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Ichimaru Gin

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    For me it's pretty simple that Shunsui wins. It's just too strange that people overrate Gin so much. Of course Gin is strong and his Bankai is dangerous, but Shunsui escaped Starrk's Cero Metralieta very easy and his Shikai is rather broken and we can assume that he would have great advantage in colour game and can one shot Gin during colour game, cause Gin has one colour on him.
    Also... it was pretty well stated by Yama and by First Databook that Shunsui only is lower than Yama, Aizen and Unohana among Captains of Gotei.

    Also about the fact that Shunsui's Shikai is moody... It's pretty clear that there isn't fixed limit to how long it needs to get in the mood. It can easily be posible to use it from get-go. Also Gin's Bankai isn't that fast as people try to see. If mind-fucked Ichigo could still counter it and even hurt Gin I'm pretty sure that Shunsui will be able to do way better.
    - Shunsui didn't dodge Cero Metrella easily. One page after Starrk shot it, it caught up with him and two pafter Starrk shot it would have hit him if it wasn't for Ukitake.

    - Where in the DB does it say Shunsui is the 2nd strongest?

    - Ichigo was able to anticipate Gin's later attacks because Gin didn't kill him the first time he used it.

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  12. #69
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Ichimaru Gin

    I'd say Shunsui wins this, because his shikai games are extremeley deadly, and IMO Gin's bankai is not that hard to dodge.

    Shunsui has shown remarkable speed and power, and well as top notch reflexes, so I think he can beat Gin even if it takes a while for his shikai to activate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Executor View Post
    On that topic, anyone else think Naruto's the type of guy who would cry after sex?
    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    I fount it interesting that had Kushina not gotten knocked up, None of them would be in the current situation. She's more responsible for the Uchiha massacre then Danzo and co. Crap, Now Sasuke has a valid reason to use his hatred against Naruto.
    LMFAO

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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Ichimaru Gin

    ki0
    I didn't say he was the second strongest. I said that in Databook he was just after Yama, Aizen and Unohana, so he was 4th.

    Ok, I might have gone overboard with easyness, but still Starrk only managed to hit Shunsui once when Ukitake was taken down. And I don't think that dodging Gin's Bankai is way more difficult than Starrk's Ceros.
    SaintSheik
    Shunsui's overall abilities are better than Gin's. Actually Gin has shown nothing to be better than Byakuya if we are going to judge purely by Shinigami arts. The only thing why he can be considered strong is his Bankai, but his overall abilities are at the middle level and his Shikai is pretty weak. Also he isn't physically strong to back his lack of Shinigami arts.

  14. #71
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Ichimaru Gin

    Gin.but barely.

    Gin is dangerous CQC with sword with seen him twice use his clothes to hide his blade (first time to attack momo nearly cutting histu eye out, Killing Aizen with sleeve). Gin is very tricky up close plus this attack http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...7-page-16.html . Gin might lied about his speed but it still FRICKING fast , and for those saying he failed to kill ichigo he was not trying..if he was would he shot him in back and not tell him to run? no could crushed him.

    Shunsui is fast but he was barely dodging the ceros from starrk (ukitake stopped the one bout to hit him). Shunsui is really screwed if his shikai plays up and not in mood for abilitys. and the fact no clue on his bankai is harder to evalutate shunsuis strength in this match

    so imo Gin wins as his sword works 100% not has be in mood and speed of attacks and deviousness.
    Last edited by Hystzen; March 06, 2011 at 01:26 PM.

  15. #72
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Ichimaru Gin

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    Ok, I might have gone overboard with easyness, but still Starrk only managed to hit Shunsui once when Ukitake was taken down. And I don't think that dodging Gin's Bankai is way more difficult than Starrk's Ceros.
    I would imagine Gin's Bankai is a hell of a lot faster than a cero. Since Yammy said a bala is 20 times faster than a cero, it seems to imply a cero isn't especially fast, relying more on power. Shunsui clearly had no trouble avoiding individual cero's, but I feel he wouldn't have lasted much longer against Starrk's multiple cero's without Ukitake stepping in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    Shunsui's overall abilities are better than Gin's. Actually Gin has shown nothing to be better than Byakuya if we are going to judge purely by Shinigami arts. The only thing why he can be considered strong is his Bankai, but his overall abilities are at the middle level and his Shikai is pretty weak. Also he isn't physically strong to back his lack of Shinigami arts.
    Gin hasn't been seen using Kidou because he hasn't needed to. He hasn't displayed amazing shunpo because he hasn't needed to. You get where I'm going with this... He does however seen to be very fast with his sword strikes, putting Ichigo and Hitsugaya completely on the defensive when he went into CQC against them.

    I agree his Shikai is weak, but I'm pretty sure he'll be going straight to bankai as he did against Ichigo, who he still wasn't fighting particularly seriously.

    I also feel he's definitely physically strong enough - he stopped masked Bankai Ichigo's sword with ease and said "way too soft" so I wouldn't go underestimating his physical strength.

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  17. #73
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Ichimaru Gin

    Shunsui should win by any real logic. Simply blocking the Bankai and stepping on the shadow produced by the sword while it's outstretched (or stabbing his own sword into the statue and haveing it appear behind Gin) is pretty much endgame right there.

    One could argue that Gin could've dispatched Ichigo easily if he wanted, but they'd have to ignore the evident power/speed difference between Shunsui and Ichigo inorder for that to count in Gin's favor. Evident as in, it exists, not evident as in we know how big the stat difference is. For example, Shunsui damaging Aizen's kidou shield when Ichigo couldn't cut through it with a GT. That's Shunsui's shikai alone, mind you, so if he's doing more damage than Bankai Ichigo with shikai alone, there's no reason to believe he can't block Kamishininoyari just as Ichigo did... with just shikai.

    And if Gin went stab-happy like he did against Ichigo, swinging dozens of slashes to try to push Shunsui back like he did Ichigo in hopes of turning his sword at him for a suprise attack, a pointblank Busho Goma in his face would disorient long enough for a fatal blow. Or again: stepping on his shadow (or just stabbing his sword into his shadow after parrying an attack) would work too.

    Even once they pick up speed, the most Gin could hope for is a few nicks here and there, not enough for his poison to do any real damage. So, the fight depends entirely on whether Shunsui can get to Kage Oni soon enough, because there's nothing Gin can do to counter it... well, aside from staying in the air.
    Last edited by ninjabot; March 06, 2011 at 02:13 PM.

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  19. #74
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Omiem's Avatar
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Ichimaru Gin

    Quote Originally Posted by freshseth83 View Post
    Irooni is the main detrimental thing that we seen from Shunsui that ended Starrk's life. Gin's bankai may be fast, but he said it wasn't as fast as he stated, and it didn't extend as far as he stated. He has to touch you after he stabs you in order for the poison to activate, which is going to be hard to do when Shunsui forces him to play the color game. Gin will get the 2nd attack since Shunsui is the initiator. Once that happens it's over. Shunsui doesn't have to be a 'nice guy' and tell Gin the rules. In fact if they're both wearing their captains uniforms, it's potentially over in the first move. The only reason Shunsui let Starrk off by slicing his arm on the first call is because he was giving him a fair shot by telling him the rules. In this scenario he doesn't have to explain anything. He'll just call a color and it can be over. Shunsui throws off his pink kimono and says 'Irooni, white' and with the reiatsu he possesses plus the amount of white he's wearing, he'll definitely kill Gin with one strike. He did the same to Starrk. He called 'black' while wearing ALL black, and aimed right at the vital spots of Starrk, basically cleaving him in half.

    He didn't have to attack Starrk's arm, he could have went for the body. How are you going to block something that went through Starrk's arm but didn't even cut it off? That's the weird thing about Irooni. It states that the damage dealt is equal to the risk of yourself, or the amount of risk that the color you just stated would cause harm to yourself. In other words Starrk's call of white would do the greatest damage to himself if Shunsui were to call white. Which was the most predominantly featured color. He gave Shunsui his best shot, and Ultimately didn't win. Now if you think Gin is stronger than Starrk, I guess you might as well vote for him. I frankly don't believe that at all.
    Well in all fairness, you can't forget that Starrk was heavily injured by Shunsui's back stab, and that he wasn't even in the right state of mind seeing how his thoughts were distracted by his past of loneliness. If it weren't for those two factors, I can actually see Starrk overcoming Shunsui's color game, but that's just me..

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  21. #75
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Ichimaru Gin

    ShootToKill
    Quote Quote:
    I would imagine Gin's Bankai is a hell of a lot faster than a cero. Since Yammy said a bala is 20 times faster than a cero, it seems to imply a cero isn't especially fast, relying more on power. Shunsui clearly had no trouble avoiding individual cero's, but I feel he wouldn't have lasted much longer against Starrk's multiple cero's without Ukitake stepping in.
    The thing is that Cero was Starrk's specialisation, hence he coulod easily spam Cero's without special stances or preparations as it was shown when he was sealed. When he used his Resureccion hebegan spamming Ceros even faster. Of course Starrk's Bala would be faster, but still his Ceros are the fastest among the Espada and second strongest after Yammy's.
    I'm just trying to show that Gin's Bankai in sense of speed won't be that troublesome for Shunsui as the majority thinks.

    Quote Quote:
    Gin hasn't been seen using Kidou because he hasn't needed to. He hasn't displayed amazing shunpo because he hasn't needed to. You get where I'm going with this... He does however seen to be very fast with his sword strikes, putting Ichigo and Hitsugaya completely on the defensive when he went into CQC against them.
    Of course he didn't need to use better Kidou or Shunpo, that's why he died from Aizen's hand.

    Quote Quote:
    I also feel he's definitely physically strong enough - he stopped masked Bankai Ichigo's sword with ease and said "way too soft" so I wouldn't go underestimating his physical strength.
    You didn't get my point. I didn't intend to say that he was weakling, but his physical capabilities aren't better than average level of a Captain, so he can't back up his lack in other fields of Shinigami arts.
    My point is that Gin is only about his Bankai and even his Bankai is a bit overrated, so I don't understand, why people think that Gins wins this or even wins this match easily.

    P.S. Ok, I can understand that he can win against Shunsui, but I do believe that even with Shikai against Bankai Shunsui wins more often than Gin.

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