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View Poll Results: Who wins?

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  • Shunsui

    61 54.95%
  • Gin

    50 45.05%
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Thread: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Ichimaru Gin

  1. #16
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Ichimaru Gin

    Curious to read the arguments for this one...while Gin only really needs one shot, the only person he's successfully gotten is someone that wanted himself to be gotten...Shunsui, on the other hand, dodged Ceros from Starrk's Cero Metralleta...

    However, Gin also has access to his Bankai, and Shunsui doesn't...which has to be an advantage for Gin.

  2. #17
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Ichimaru Gin

    The "he didn't do very well against Ichigo" argument is irrelevant if you ask me... Gin was NOT trying to kill him, it makes far more sense that he was attempting to gauge Ichigo's current strength to see whether he would potentially be capable of taking on Aizen were Gin to fail. Gin could have taken Ichigo out multiple times in that fight if he'd wanted to.

    Also, Shunsui didn't "own" Starrk, he fought dirty/had help throughout most of the fight. If he had beaten Starrk 1 on 1 fair and square I would find him beating Gin more believable. However, as said above, Gin just needs one hit and it's essentially over - that little chip took out most of Aizen's torso.

    Shunsui has a lot of tricks up his sleeve, but Gin is an extremely intelligent and dangerous opponent, so I believe he will find a way to land the necessary hit.

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  4. #18
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Ichimaru Gin

    Quote Quote:
    - Gin likely was just testing Ichigo. He scolded Ichigo for being weak. Gin seem to want Ichigo to be strong, so Ichigo could take Aizen. Gin only said he would kill Ichigo after Ichigo decided not to leave.
    Actually he wanted to take Aizen. Ichigo was a backup plan. Testing however I draw the line at. Attempting to hit him with that gattling tech of his is not testing. You mess up for an instant there, you automatically die.

    I can maybe allow him going lighter on him overall. At points he definitely wasn't taking advantage of openings to say the least even if he was much harder to the point of clearly trying for murder in others. Testing however is another matter entirely. You do not do a surefire killshot that he only survived due to an arbitrary defense he technically shouldn't have been able to pull in time (Then again it's not actually mach 500 so whatever) if you're testing someone.

    Quote Quote:
    - The conditions needed for Ichigo to dodge Gin's bankai are important as well. Ichigo noted he couldn't react to Gin's bankai. Ichigo had to anticipate where and when Gin would point his blade, than dodge before hand. Ichigo was able to anticpate Gin's blade because he knew how fast it was and that he couldn't react. The only reason he knew how fast it was, was because Gin demonstrated how fast it was.
    In an unimaginably dumb way. This is why I say the intial moments of this fight (When Gin summons bankai, which if he doesn't do quick he loses anyway as his shikai blows chunks) are the most dangerous, but his handling of them was abysmal to say the least. And mind, he wasn't intending that either, his thoughts actually showed some slight SURPRISE at Ichigo figuring it out.

    I mean dude. You had your blade extended, then you lifted it up to your face with it shortened during a lull in the fight. The hell were you expecting. That couldn't have been made more obvious.
    Last edited by Random101; March 05, 2011 at 09:30 PM.

  5. #19
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Jackk's Avatar
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Ichimaru Gin

    I don't see how Shunsui with a shikai that doesn't always allow him to use its abilities because of "mood" problems... is going to beat a Bankai from a captain level fighter such as Gin, Aizen's right hand man.

    If Gin gets serious and starts attacking really fast in multiple angles/directions with his extendable/retractable blade, Shunsui WILL get hit. Gin also certainly has the range advantage, and if Gin manages to pierce Shunsui with his blade in, say, his chest or his back... Shunsui is certainly going to die from the poison. Gin's poison would have even killed evolved Aizen had it not been for the Hogyouku keeping him alive and making him immortal.

    Shunsui may be skilled, but he needs his Bankai if he wants to take on Gin. But Shunsui does not have access to Bankai in this tournament since we don't know what it is.

  6. #20
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Ichimaru Gin

    Aizen's right hand man = wretched argument. Particularly since now we know he was keeping him close purely to see how he would try to kill him. I grant Gin many things, his Bankai is the IDEAL assasin's bankai, if he fires when you're not ready, you are essentially dead unless you're Aizen. His other skills however are barely better than someone who has been preforming dreadfully for ages. Dude ex-cells in virtually nothing save being an excellent backstabber (And obviously hax). That in itself doesn't help in a one on one fight however. Particularly without the skills to shake him and get him by surprise another way.

    Also given he has to go into that asinine stance for his multiple shots, I don't buy the whole multiple angles approach. He starts shooting wildly with something that doesn't have a good AOE, he's wide open for a backstab. He does have a decent chance himself, no question, but doing it like that isn't going to work well on someone that much superior in speed.

  7. #21
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Calisto's Avatar
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Ichimaru Gin

    Gin hit Ichigo with his bankai, yet he never activated his poison, which should make it clear that Gin wasn't trying to kill him.

    Then there's Gin always saying Kamishi or w/e it's called right before he attacks so Ichigo can aim-dodge it. Gin just wanted to get Ichigo's resolve in case his plan to kill Aizen failed.

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  9. #22
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Ichimaru Gin

    Actually he was keeping the poison a secret for Aizen. He would definitely have been boned otherwise, but just because he didn't use that is not an indicator of him not trying to kill him, as he had a valid excuse for why.

    Also bar the named attacks he used in that asinine stance, he never really said anything when firing it. Unless you're talking about the anime fight I didn't watch, which is moot regardless.

  10. #23
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Calisto's Avatar
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Ichimaru Gin

    What do you mean keeping it a secret? Aizen was busy fighting Isshin, and even if he did see the poison, that wouldn't have helped him.

  11. #24
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Ichimaru Gin

    He'd come back, and Ichigo would have a blatant hole in his chest or side of his torso, and the only one around would be Gin. I'd think he'd find out to say the least.

  12. #25
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Calisto's Avatar
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Ichimaru Gin

    That's not what I mean, I mean if Aizen still gets impaled, then knowing about the poison ahead of time won't save him.

    Also, Gin caught Ichigo off-guard with his back to him, and instead of attacking him, he just makes a joke. It's clear that Gin wasn't trying to kill Ichigo because he needs a back-up plan is his betrayal fails.

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  14. #26
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Ichimaru Gin

    Quote Quote:
    Actually he wanted to take Aizen. Ichigo was a backup plan. Testing however I draw the line at. Attempting to hit him with that gattling tech of his is not testing. You mess up for an instant there, you automatically die.

    I can maybe allow him going lighter on him overall. At points he definitely wasn't taking advantage of openings to say the least even if he was much harder to the point of clearly trying for murder in others. Testing however is another matter entirely. You do not do a surefire killshot that he only survived due to an arbitrary defense he technically shouldn't have been able to pull in time (Then again it's not actually mach 500 so whatever) if you're testing someone.
    Gin was in a stance that didn't allow him too move much, he was bracing himself for the recoil. The sword likely would have landed around the same area most of the time. Also Ichigo did have a chance to move out of the way. He saw how fast it came back:http://www.mangafox.com/manga/bleach/v45/c404/15.html

    If Ichigo just moved out of the line fire it's unlikely Gin would have followed while using that technique.

    Quote Quote:
    In an unimaginably dumb way. This is why I say the intial moments of this fight (When Gin summons bankai, which if he doesn't do quick he loses anyway as his shikai blows chunks) are the most dangerous, but his handling of them was abysmal to say the least. And mind, he wasn't intending that either, his thoughts actually showed some slight SURPRISE at Ichigo figuring it out.

    I mean dude. You had your blade extended, then you lifted it up to your face with it shortened during a lull in the fight. The hell were you expecting. That couldn't have been made more obvious.
    IMO Gin was trying to give Ichigo a chance, because just like Ichigo noted (here: http://www.mangafox.com/manga/bleach/v45/c400/14.html) Gin would of had an advantage if he just attacked. It makes no sense otherwise. I don't think Gin, is that dumb.

    Gin did show some surprise, because he didn't expect Ichigo to figure it out so fast.

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  16. #27
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Ichimaru Gin

    After Ichigo attacks Gin with his hollow mask and Gin blocks it, Ichigo just stands there and Gin extends his blade and cuts Ichigo's mask off... if Gin had truly wished to kill Ichigo he would have got him in the head. Not to mention all the times during the fight when he pointed his sword at Ichigo but decided not to extend it.

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  18. #28
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Ichimaru Gin

    Quote Originally Posted by Calisto View Post
    That's not what I mean, I mean if Aizen still gets impaled, then knowing about the poison ahead of time won't save him.

    Also, Gin caught Ichigo off-guard with his back to him, and instead of attacking him, he just makes a joke. It's clear that Gin wasn't trying to kill Ichigo because he needs a back-up plan is his betrayal fails.
    While valid, if he gets hit, he was still keeping it a secret for Aizen. Meaning Aizen knows not to let it touch him at all now. There's holes in Gin's logic sure, but he still pretty much stated exactly that as his reasoning regardless.

    Also valid about the back hit, however Gin was still trying to kill him in other parts regardless. I stated as much previously. >>

    Quote Quote:
    The sword likely would have landed around the same area most of the time.
    Did you see the sudden blooming death when he fired that tech? That is not all the same area. That's a cone of death. Easy to see coming and dodge death sure, but Ichigo couldn't dodge. And he would have been paste if not for the defense.

    Quote Quote:
    IMO Gin was trying to give Ichigo a chance, because just like Ichigo noted (here: http://www.mangafox.com/manga/bleach/v45/c400/14.html) Gin would of had an advantage if he just attacked. It makes no sense otherwise. I don't think Gin, is that dumb.

    Gin did show some surprise, because he didn't expect Ichigo to figure it out so fast.
    First off Ichigo's logic there shoots that logic in the foot. He directly states Gin did it purely to distract him from the real danger of his bankai.

    And that he expected Ichigo not to figure it out at all after how Incredibly obvious he was about it is my point. I mean, unless he saw cut off my arm and leg too, no way he thinks the dude's that stupid.

  19. #29
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member SaintSheik's Avatar
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Ichimaru Gin

    Gin. The fact that we only have Shunsui's shikai to our disposal is one thing but the fact that we're aware of Gin's exceptional zanpaktou doesn't help Shunsui's case this time around.

    Random question, but is this SS Gin? Shunsui's color game is probably his most devastating ability and if he had the opportunity to use it against Aizen, he would but the all white garments didn't make it so easy.

    What I'm getting at is Shunsui has a much better chance if Gin was wearing black as well. Shunsui is a senior captain and all but we've only been shown a fraction of his power..a power that seems much more effective out of a traditional one-vs-one setting..Gin wins as payback for Shunsui getting rid of Matsumoto

  20. #30
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Ichimaru Gin

    It wouldn't make sense for Ichigo to be a back up if Gin was trying to kill Ichigo at the beginning and he didn't expect him to survive the attack (here: http://www.mangafox.com/manga/bleach/v45/c400/10.html)

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