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View Poll Results: Who wins?

Voters
111. You may not vote on this poll
  • Shunsui

    61 54.95%
  • Gin

    50 45.05%
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Thread: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Ichimaru Gin

  1. #196
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Ichimaru Gin

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonix View Post
    Why would you think Gin would be unable to figure out the game? He's a genius, if Starrk could figure it out, then Gin can as well. Did you forget that Shunsui announces what game he's playing? If he says "color game" then calls out a color and attacks, I'm sure Gin will be able to figure it out.
    Actually, Gin is a prodigy. In Japanese, isai (異才) is used for both "genius" and "prodigy". Gin is gifted in shinigami arts. So is Hitsugaya. These guys can realize their potential much faster than other shinigami.

    I don't think Gin is as intelligent as Starrk, the manga didn't suggest that Gin had extraordinary intellect. But even if Gin is very smart, it doesn't matter because how will Gin figure out what's going on if Shunsui doesn't tell him that they're playing a game?

    "Being smart" doesn't mean "a supernatural force will whisper Shunsui's shikai ability in Gin's ear". Intelligence needs adequate information to make proper deduction. If Shunsui calls "white" and engages in CQC, what will Gin do? He'll try to stab Shunsui in a vital spot like the head or the chest. Perhaps Gin will hide the fact that he has an extending sword until Shunsui gets close because Gin will also try to surprise Shunsui in CQC. We all remember when he released his sword against Hitsugaya.

    On the other hand, Shunsui won't mind getting hit but Gin will not be aware of that. Once Gin's attack connects, he'll be relieved, thinking that his opponent is done for. But then Shunsui will throw his kimono at him and cut him down. These will all happen so quickly that Gin won't have enough time to understand that his attacks don't do any damage.

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  3. #197
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member AlB's Avatar
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Ichimaru Gin

    Quote Originally Posted by freshseth83 View Post
    How do you vote for someone who has no feats? He couldn't beat Hitsugaya, he failed to beat Aizen, he couldn't beat Ichigo... should I go on?
    Hitsu - slaughtering another captain in the middle of Seiretei would have ruined his overall plans
    Aizen - tell me a name of a person who managed to beat normal Aizen (nevermind Butterflaizen)
    Ichigo - Gin was messing around with him

    Quote Originally Posted by freshseth83 View Post
    Arguing for another character and then voting for the other is weird.
    It's called "I changed my mind".

    Quote Originally Posted by freshseth83 View Post
    While I'm not a gin 'hater', he's not impressive. His shikai and bankai aren't impressive either. Anyone who is proficient in Shunpo will be able to dodge it.
    proof? and Ichigo has mastered Shunpo back in SS arc, as Byakuya noted. + Gin was messing with him and Ichi already had trouble evading Kamishini.

    Quote Originally Posted by freshseth83 View Post
    As soon as he says, 'shoot to kill' what do you think someone like Shunsui will do? Stand there and say 'what'? He's on the move, he already showed this against Starrk.
    Gin doesn't need to say Shikai command since he has already achieved his Bankai

    Quote Originally Posted by freshseth83 View Post
    With instant ceros that were fired at the rate of Machine guns. Dude was playing around with Starrk.
    He was jokingly fighting with him the whole time until Starrk finally got serious. We saw what happens when Shunsui gets serious. His opponents get dead. Who did Gin ever take down?
    Gin hasn't taken down anybody... not that he couldn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by freshseth83 View Post
    He didn't even finish the job when he sliced Hiyori in half! But now he's able to take on Shunsui, and win?
    no comment...

    Quote Originally Posted by freshseth83 View Post
    He's never won any major fights. Not only is his rap sheet kinda empty, but his feats are as well.
    What major fights? playing with Hitsu and Ichigo? or are you talking about his battle with a guy who took down around two dozens of captains single-handedly?

    Quote Originally Posted by freshseth83 View Post
    I'm not saying he can't defeat anyone, but I'm not feeling him beating anyone above the level of himself.
    Then what was the point of your entire post above?

    Quote Originally Posted by freshseth83 View Post
    Not even Hitsugaya he's on the level at or just above Tosen.
    no comment again...

    Quote Originally Posted by freshseth83 View Post
    There's no way he's on the level of Shunsui. The only reason Aizen kept him is to keep himself on his toes.
    Sooo... a guy who keeps Aizen on his toes is worthless against anybody else short of himself?

    Quote Originally Posted by freshseth83 View Post
    There's nothing I see from Gin making him win here. Even if Shunsui's shikai has 'mood problems'.
    Ignorance is bliss isn't it?
    Last edited by AlB; March 09, 2011 at 05:47 AM.

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  5. #198
    Hound of Shadow 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member benelori's Avatar
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Ichimaru Gin

    Quote Originally Posted by AlB View Post
    Ignorance is bliss isn't it?
    Haha...but even that changes when the fight is serious...the zanpaktou is the soul of the shinigami, basically is the shinigami...I never doubted the fact that the mood problems were Shunsui's from the beginning

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  7. #199
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member AlB's Avatar
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Ichimaru Gin

    Quote Originally Posted by benelori View Post
    Haha...but even that changes when the fight is serious...the zanpaktou is the soul of the shinigami, basically is the shinigami...I never doubted the fact that the mood problems were Shunsui's from the beginning
    lol
    Still, unlike popular opinion I do not think that Shunsui's Zan has "mood problems" frequently. Hell, it might have been a lie for all we know... (considering Shun's personality, that is)

  8. #200
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Deepak5191's Avatar
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Ichimaru Gin

    Quote Originally Posted by freshseth83 View Post
    Here's what Shunsui dodged-
    http://img2.bleachexile.com/manga/bl...h_Ch362_16.png

    That looks like more than a 'dozen' ceros to me. When does a MACHINE GUN only fire a 'dozen' bullets? They shoot off at least 300rounds per minute. I guess when Starrk charged up and shot off his ceros, and said Cero Metralleta (machine gun ceros) he was lying and only shot about a 'dozen'? lol- manga facts get tossed out the window when it's Shunsui feats. Seems so illogical that a character calls out Machine Gun ceros and only fires off the amount the one clip in a semi-automatic weapon can hold!

    Lets get back to the color game. When Shunsui called Gray there was no gray on him, so the wound was shallow. There's nothing in the manga that says, "Starrk gets to hit Gray also". No. Starrk gets a TURN, and if he wants to call gray he'd be stupid. The game doesn't work that way. You don't get hurt by calling off a color that you wear. You do damage proportionate to the color you wear. Shunsui explains 'you can get hurt too' he didn't say, 'you will get hurt too if you call out the color you wear'. That's false. I'm seeing this over and over, but it's false. The fact he said that means that the greater the color is on you the EASIER it is to hit that color, or the GREATER THE RISK it is to you. Not what people are implying that you get hit on the color too. If that were the case, Starrk calling white would mean he gets hit in the white too! But did he? No! It's like role reversal. If I were to play the game with myself, and I called white- while wearing the most white, it would do the most damage to myself. The damage is proportionate to the amount of damage you would receive to yourself. That's what the 'risk' is. There's no way Gin will even be able to win that fight if Shunsui doesn't tell him the rules.

    In my opinion I don't even think there's a such thing as 'turns'. Could Shunsui possibly be playing the nice guy and saying it's your turn? Does Irooni say you HAVE to take turns? Or was Shunsui being a fair fighter? To me it seems he was, how he said 'I planned to give you hints'... Though even if they MUST take turns. What is Gin going to do when Shunsui calls white? If he's dead he won't be able to call any color. Game over.
    300 rounds a minute is still only 5 rounds a second, which is less than what Stark seemed to have shot there. It was more like a dozen cero's instantaneously. So it suits its name quite well actually.

    Shunsui's zan seems to be quite tempermental and playful. There's no point playing a game if you have an obscenely huge advantage. It's like versing someone at chess but failing to actually teach them the rules. The zan spirit likely forces him to reveal the secrets of the game, if not outright, atleast after a little while. Start giving little hints to the game and if after a while, you still haven't figured out the game, then you deserve to die.

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  10. #201
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Ichimaru Gin

    300 rounds per minute is 'slow' for a machine gun or sub-machine gun. Guns in the first two world wars were firing that fast or faster. Guns nowadays are firing 600rpm. That's 10 bullets per second. And that's continuous. Regardless of the count, machine gun ceros is what it means, ceros like a machine gun. I guess you meant your comment as some sort of rebuttal for me saying Starrk shot more than a dozen. I guess you missed the part in the manga where it shows him changing the angle of his gun and HOLDING down the trigger. No? Missed that? I guess you read into things for some characters but then don't for others. Case in point, Shunsui and Katen Kyokotsu's 'mood' problems. In fact I don't think there is any mood problems. Shunsui's mood was reflecting what his sword was. He wasn't serious, KK wasn't serious.

    I don't get what you mean by saying "The zan spirit likely forces him to reveal the secrets of the game, if not outright, atleast after a little while. Start giving little hints to the game and if after a while, you still haven't figured out the game, then you deserve to die." What's that? Some new theory you came up with? Does it say that in the manga? Where does Shunsui say "I had to give you the rules..." It doesn't. He says "I planned to give you little hints..." I guess you and the Gin supporters feel as if he'll figure out the game the instant Shunsui plays it? So Shunsui says, Irooni (Color game) 'white' and slices Gin in half, is he still going to figure it out? Or are is he going to be bleeding on the ground with his body chopped open? I don't see how you or anyone can say "Gin is a prodigy, a child genius, so he'll figure out Shunsui's games." Why would he even give him the chance? This isn't the manga where Kubo has to give the other character a chance. Shunsui hides in shadows which gin's sword creates as well as himself. Shunsui shunpos distances Gin's sword couldn't bother even thinking about reaching. You and others admit that Ichigo was dodging it Gin's blade. But when other who support Shunsui bring it up... "Gin wasn't being serious" But how about Hitsugaya? "He couldn't kill him in Seiretei." That's funny, other captains were trying to fight to the death, but not Gin? What's the excuse for Aizen? "No one has beat Aizen" No one knew how to get through KS, Gin did, and still failed. The excuse for not killing Hiyori? "No comment". I never stated Gin was weak, but compared to a top Captain like Shunsui, dude is an amateur. Most other captains are. Unless you really think Gin is stronger or more skilled than someone who took down Aizen's #1 espada, with a Shikai. I guess Gin would do the same huh?

    And what's this ignorance is bliss? The ignorance shown here by the Gin supporters I think is pretty high! No feats, no kills, no one defeated, waited too long to kill Aizen, lies about his abilities, monologues about Aizen not needing KS when he clearly used it- more lies... What does Gin equal up to besides his fast long sword and the fact he's a captain? Nothing he has done is worthy of praise.

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  12. #202
    MH Senpai MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Ichimaru Gin

    Despite a very hard fought match, Shunsui wins! He shall advance on into the Quarter-finals. Discuss the result of this match and all others in the Tournament Discussion thread.

    Stay tuned for more details!

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