Urahara Kisuke vs Kurosaki Isshin

[Jackk]

Isn't there the no knowledge rule in play here?

Yeah, neither of them have any knowledge on one another in this tournament. And this is yet another reason why I give the edge to Urahara seeing as he's more analytical as well as more versatile and has more abilities/techniques.

[exacta]

No no no, see. You've got it all wrong. Urahara said it wouldn't work on Aizen because Aizen wouldn't have come into physical contact with him twice without a plan, in other words, be more cautious. However, that is Aizen, not Ulquirora, who is far below Aizen in power. So what applies to Aizen does not apply to Ulquiorra in the slightest

Urahara used 2 seals. One which blasted Aizens own reiatsu back on him which Aizen admitted would've killed him, and another which is what activated after Ichigo used Mugetsu. The 1st seal would suffice for Ulquiorra, and if not, Urahara could probably defeat him with a 90s level Kido, like, Hado 91 coupled with other ablities.

Yammy's cero did not explode at all upon contact, that was the entire point of Urahara matching it precisely to avoid that very result, he only dissipated it. Either way, Ulq slapping it isn't impressive because all that means is that Ulq could slap away Base Yammy, the 10th Espada's Cero.

Yeah, not very impressive



No, he definitely would not. Ulquiorra is the 4th strongest Espada. Aizen said he alone is more powerful than all the Espada. Urahara is equal in power to this same Aizen. He has far more sheer power and reiatsu than Ulquiorra



Isn't there the no knowledge rule in play here?

Urahara is not equal to Aizen in power, his intellect exceeds his, which is definitely a strength. Urahara was frightened by Aizens reiatsu back in TBTP. They are not equal in reiatsu and strength, but Urahara is more clever. Urahara wouldn't be able to oneshot Ulquiorra like Aizen did to the captains. Again, not saying he'd lose.

And also Urahara said it worked because Aizen was less cautious, it had nothing to do with power. Ulquiorra is less powerful but probably had the best analyzing skills of the Espada next to Stark.

And Yammi's cero exploded in the anime. I wouldn't know about the manga since when I started reading Bleach we were up to Grimmjows final fight, so I was able go a decent way into the story without having to read the manga. Also, how do we know the attack Urahara launched at Yammi was equal in strengh to the one he canceled out with the first time?? If really was different in power, wouldn't he have had to make the second one stronger in order to dispatch Yammi?? That scene was obviously intended to hype up Ulquiorra, you can't deny that. Lets just let the whole Ulquiorra thing go, its way offtopic.

Isshin's very strong, and he was able to fatigue Aizen before he transformed, whereas it seems like Urahara's physical abilities were not on par with Aizen, since he called him a monster right before the smoke cleared. Isshin was able to flick the old Aizen through a building by flicking the air with his finger. No one else has shown to be able to do that. And he's got huge reiatsu as shown from the Dangai. The guys a beast, and he's not careless either. Thats why I lean towards him.

[Buzz Killington]

Urahara is not equal to Aizen in power

http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...18-page-9.html

You'd be interested to know this is after Aizen made this statement
http://www.mangareader.net/94-51305-...apter-402.html

Just to put things into perspective

his intellect exceeds his, which is definitely a strength

Yeah I know

Urahara was frightened by Aizens reiatsu back in TBTP.

Prove it. I don't remember this. This is all he said, or was gonna say...
http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...7-page-16.html

They are not equal in reiatsu and strength, but Urahara is more clever.

http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...18-page-9.html

Or, if you wanna look at it from a different perspective. Form a conclusion based off of these scans

http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...9-page-13.html
http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...9-page-14.html
http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...15-page-7.html

Urahara wouldn't be able to oneshot Ulquiorra like Aizen did to the captains. Again, not saying he'd lose.

Depends on how he goes about it, don't forget Aizen had Kyoka Suigetsu to find openings on these Captains. I personally don't see Ulq surviving being hit with a Hado 91 or the Reiatsu cuff Kido

And also Urahara said it worked because Aizen was less cautious, it had nothing to do with power. Ulquiorra is less powerful but probably had the best analyzing skills of the Espada next to Stark.

Analyzing skills that pale in comparison to Aizen, who's intellect is lower than Urahara's. You're assuming because Aizen was careless that anyone who isn't careless won't have to worry about Urahara's techniques. That is false. It is about power. Ulquiorra simply isn't in Urahara's league to where whether he's careless or not would make a difference

And Yammi's cero exploded in the anime. I wouldn't know about the manga since when I started reading Bleach we were up to Grimmjows final fight, so I was able go a decent way into the story without having to read the manga. Also, how do we know the attack Urahara launched at Yammi was equal in strengh to the one he canceled out with the first time?? If really was different in power, wouldn't he have had to make the second one stronger in order to dispatch Yammi?? That scene was obviously intended to hype up Ulquiorra, you can't deny that. Lets just let the whole Ulquiorra thing go, its way offtopic.

He never said he was gonna kill Yammy, he just said he was gonna show him the technique again because Yammy didn't believe him.

Isshin's very strong, and he was able to fatigue Aizen before he transformed, whereas it seems like Urahara's physical abilities were not on par with Aizen, since he called him a monster right before the smoke cleared. Isshin was able to flick the old Aizen through a building by flicking the air with his finger. No one else has shown to be able to do that. And he's got huge reiatsu as shown from the Dangai. The guys a beast, and he's not careless either. Thats why I lean towards him.

Sure, Isshin's a beast. I'm not trying to discredit him. Urahara never called Aizen a monster though, must've been some type of anime filler you're referencing, which isn't canon. Like I was saying before, Urahara was dealing quite well with a stronger version of Aizen, and would've killed him without even using his shikai, just a gigai switch and kido and his own intelligence to outsmart Aizen

He's not lacking in comparison to Isshin by any means

[freshseth83]

He said though were no longer equal/comparable in strength. That's not saying we used to be the same strength before I got the hoguyoku in my chest. I think anyone that believes that is reading into things way too far. Dude just said he was stronger than any of the espada, but was he? Maybe he had control over them because he had them all under KS, like the gotei 13. The last time Aizen saw Urahara was back in TBTP arc. Over 100 years before. If he was saying were no longer comparable in strength, why wouldn't he mean the last time they met? Which was when Aizen was a V/C. What other time did Aizen have to gauge Urahara's strength/abilities? Never. The only time anyone relatively close to Aizen met Urahara was Ulquiorra and Yammi. That wasn't a very long fight, so with that in consideration I'm betting he meant the last time they met. Which was over 100 years ago. In that time Aizen became captain, put his plans in motion, gathered the espada, stole the hog' etc. Urahara was never comparable in strength or the same strength as Aizen since TBTP days. At least in Aizen's mind. I don't care what abilities each character has shown. I already voted. I've read enough of the comments and already gave my opinion. It's not easy for any of these guys to win, but I feel Isshin would.

[Takahashi]

I'd like to point out that comparable =/= equal.......

I can be compared to Usain Bolt, doesn't mean I'm gonna be anywhere near him when the race is over.

Aizen was progressing into a whole new world of power. Obviously, him being on a higher level altogether would make anyone of a lower level of power incomparable.

[Jackk]

Urahara is not equal to Aizen in power

Well Aizen himself actually admitted that Kisuke was the only being who surpassed his intellect--which means that Kisuke is more intelligent than Aizen. Furthermore, Kubo also implied that Kisuke and Aizen had equal or comparable power before Aizen started evolving with the Hogyouku.

In the scan that Bleachexile has of chapter 405, Aizen says: "You are the only being within soul society who is beyond my intellect. Even if we no are longer equals in power, I still have interest in you." http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...18-page-9.html

And in Cnet's translation of chapter 405, Aizen says: "You are the only person in all of Soul Society with intelligence surpassing my own. // We may no longer be comparable in power, but that does not eliminate my interest in you." http://mangahelpers.com/t/cnet128/releases/22775

I think it's clear right there that Kubo was saying that Kisuke and base Aizen were equal in power;however, when Aizen fused with the Hogyouku and turned into that chrysalis form... they were now no longer equals in power. And it makes sense too, considering how that chrysalis Aizen was even talking about how he could already feel how his new powers were surpassing that of his old self.

Besides, we saw that Kisuke was even able to react to Aizen's shunpo, in FKT, and managed to fool him with the portable gigai. Further, there's even the fact that in the FKT fight against Chrysalis Aizen.... Kisuke was able to detect, and warn Yoruichi about Aizen coming out and on his way to attack her http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...6-page-17.html ...Kisuke even tanked an attack from Chrysalis Aizen. Heck chrysalis Aizen using only his hand was able to slash Kisuke and make him lose blood, but again, that attack didn't take Kisuke down. Further, we even saw that the attack that Chrysalis Aizen used to knock down Kisuke, Yoruichi, and Isshin...didn't actually do a whole lot of damage to Kisuke. We know that Kisuke got up some unknown time after Isshin, and he later went to SS most likely to help Ichigo, and definitely to make sure that his seal activated on Aizen. We saw that Kisuke mostly just had some bruises that don't mean a whole lot in Bleach. Kisuke's clothes weren't even torn; he looked fine. http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...4-page-15.html

Kisuke even blocked an attack from chrysalis aizen, and then trapped him with a chain from one side (Isshin trapped Aizen with a chain on the other side)

http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/ch...3/page011.html
http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/ch...3/page012.html
http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/ch...3/page013.html

I'm just pointing that out because even if you argue that chrysalis/cocoon Aizen wasn't as cautious or wasn't using his KS complete hypnosis, he was still undeniably more powerful than his old self. Yet Urahara Kisuke could still damage him some (Urahara even dealt some damage to chrysalis Aizen with his shikai Juzutsunagi tech), and was able to hang in there for a while. Therefore it's not ridiculous to believe that Urahara could have really been roughly equal in power to base Aizen (Aizen with no Hogyouku in him and not using illusions).

Now, of course, even if Kisuke and base Aizen were roughly equal in power... Aizen still has his extremely broken zanpakutou ability of complete hypnosis, so yeah, I suppose Aizen could still beat him if he has Kisuke under complete hypnosis. But if Kisuke doesn't get caught in complete hypnosis somehow, I think he does have the power, intellect, tools, and abilities/techniques that can defeat base Aizen. Heck Aizen himself even said that Kisuke's kidou abilities would have certainly finished him had it not been for the Hogyouku.

his intellect exceeds his, which is definitely a strength.

Yes, I agree.

Urahara was frightened by Aizens reiatsu back in TBTP.

Urahara never stated that he was frightened by Aizen's reiatsu. Tessai was surprised to see a VC stopping his hadou with a chant-less Danku;however, Byakuya can do Danku too but I'm pretty sure that Urahara isn't frightened by Byakuya's reiatsu either. Heck Urahara was not frightened at all to go up against an evolved Aizen....

And also Urahara said it worked because Aizen was less cautious, it had nothing to do with power.

Urahara's kido prowess and his sealing kido techs would work on anyone if he caught them. They are pretty much finishing moves. Nobody is surviving being blasted from the inside-out by their own reiatsu (unless they have a hougyouku in them making them immortal), and seeing as Aizen couldn't get out of Kisuke's final sealing tech, and that that was basically Kisuke's trump card to beat his opponent....I don't see how Ulquiorra or Isshin would get out of it if they get caught by it.

Also, the following is what Urahara said to Aizen:

Ju-Ni's translation-

Kisuke says: "In the past, you never would've come into physical contact with me twice without any kind of plan." http://ju-ni.net/gallery/index.php?d...h-ch402-18.png

And Cnet's translation-

Kisuke says: "..I don't think you understand. // When I called you careless, I wasn't referring to your failure to dodge my Kidou. // In the old days... // ...you would never have dreamed of directly touching me twice without good reason." http://mangahelpers.com/t/cnet128/releases/22335

In other words, old Aizen would have been more cautious, yes, but because Kisuke is strong and very dangerous. And nowhere in there does Kisuke really say that it would have been completely impossible for him to do anything to Aizen. Granted it may have been more difficult to trap old Aizen perhaps, but not impossible...considering chrysalis Aizen even admitted that Kisuke's intellect was higher, and that they used to be comparable in power.

And either way, Ulquiorra cannot equate to a very cautious Aizen, so yeah...even if Urahara really would not have been able to catch old Aizen with his kido techs, it doesn't mean that Urahara will not be able to catch Ulquiorra or Isshin in this particular match--specially since Urahara's opponent here does not have knowledge regarding Urahara's abilities either.

Ulquiorra is less powerful but probably had the best analyzing skills of the Espada next to Stark.

Urahara's analytical skills are still superior though.

And Yammi's cero exploded in the anime.

I don't remember seeing that, but either way... this is manga discussion; the anime is not canon here. As Buzz Killington stated, Yammy's cero did not explode at all upon contact, that was the entire point of Urahara matching it precisely to avoid that very result, he only dissipated it. The manga made that very clear.

Also, how do we know the attack Urahara launched at Yammi was equal in strengh to the one he canceled out with the first time?? If really was different in power, wouldn't he have had to make the second one stronger in order to dispatch Yammi??

How do we know? Well I showed you with extreme detail in one of my previous posts. Urahara did not say that he was trying to kill Yami with the second energy blast, he was only demonstrating to him the blast that he had used just a moment ago to dissipate/cancel out Yami previous cero--which is why that second blast was adjusted to also only carried the same amount of power as Yami's basic cero, and Urahara wasn't really intending to kill Yami with that. Please read my other post as I explained it with even more detail there: http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showpo...&postcount=175

Also, as I said before, we really don't know to what extent Urahara can amplify his energy blasts;however, the one that he threw at Yami was adjusted to carry the same amount of power as Yami's basic cero. And I really don't think that Urahara's more powerful energy blasts are around that level of power. I mean, this is sealed Yami we're talking about, the freaking 10th Espada--who is by far the weakest in terms of reiatsu since Espadas are ranked by reiatsu.

Urahara's physical abilities were not on par with Aizen, since he called him a monster right before the smoke cleared.

What Urahara told Ichigo after blasting Aizen from the inside-out with the reiatsu seal was the following:

Ju-Ni-

"It's not over yet. It'd be lovely if something like that was the end of this since that would mean he was just an ordinary monster." http://ju-ni.net/gallery/index.php?d...h-ch403-03.png

Or Cnet's translation-

Urahara: "It would be nice if this were enough to finish him off. // That would make him just a monster. // But no... // He'll be back any moment now." http://mangahelpers.com/t/cnet128/releases/22336

But Urahara is basically saying that he already knew that his reiatsu seal was not going to kill Aizen because he was now more than just an ordinary monster that could have still been killed by that. In other words, the Hogyouku basically made Aizen immortal--which the manga later affirms again. And Urahara had anticipated this, which is why his real plan was to seal Aizen with his other sealing tech, just as Urahara revealed to Aizen later on. Therefore, the reiatsu seal seemed to have been used more to try to weaken and/or buy time for Kisuke's main seal to activate, which was the one that was inside the lv90th Hadou. And it took even longer to activate due to Aizen evolving further, hence it only finally activated after Aizen was weakened enough by Ichigo's FGT. I explained this more in detail here: http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showpo...postcount=1268

Isshin was able to flick the old Aizen through a building by flicking the air with his finger. No one else has shown to be able to do that. And he's got huge reiatsu as shown from the Dangai. The guys a beast, and he's not careless either. Thats why I lean towards him.

I think the "finger flick" was some sort of kido tech. Besides, we didn't see Isshin doing that to Aizen again when they were in their sword fight, thus he was probably able to pull that finger move on Aizen because he caught him off guard initially. Nevertheless, I admit, it was pretty nice seeing Aizen getting pushed back like that.

Isshin is certainly strong and powerful, he does seem to have high reiatsu and good endurance. And he may not be very careless, but I think that Urahara is even more cautious.

You seem to still believe that Isshin wins and I'll respect your opinion;however, I think that Urahara wins this match more often than not due to him still being pretty strong in his own right, but most importantly due to him being more analytical and significantly more versatile than Isshin right now. Like I said in one of my previous posts, Urahara still needs to avoid a direct hit from Isshin's GT;however, I think that Isshin also really needs to avoid getting hit by a Shibari, Hiasobi and Juzutsunagi combo as well. Kisuke also has more techniques and abilities (more shikai abilities, kido chains, gigai trick, sealing kido techs), which Isshin has no knowledge of in this tournament.

[Buzz Killington]

Yeah, Jackk hit it right on. It's pretty clear Aizen meant they were equals in power before the Hogyoku made him stronger, saying otherwise is just outright denying manga canon for no reason at all

Urahara = Base Aizen in power, all the while being more intelligent

[LucyBenard]

I see that most of the Urahara voters have wagered their arguments on this quote, found in chapter 405:

We are no longer comparable in power

The general and simple interpretation of the above line is:

All shinigami are comparable in terms of power. Aizen was evolving into something that was beyond the realm of both shinigami and hollows when he spoke of the above line. Ergo, Aizen was alluding to the fact that he was no longer a shinigami, and hence, comparing his power to another shinigami (Urahara) was no longer meaningful. Thus, the line: "we are no longer comparable in power".

Pretty straight forward explanation, I hope

[exacta]

Yeah, Jackk hit it right on. It's pretty clear Aizen meant they were equals in power before the Hogyoku made him stronger, saying otherwise is just outright denying manga canon for no reason at all

Urahara = Base Aizen in power, all the while being more intelligent

We no longer may be comparable in power doesn't mean equal, Aizen just meant that Urahara was no longer the same dimension of power as Aizen. That is true, since they could not even sense Aizen. Urahara has never displayed Aizen-level feats in terms of speed and power. Theres also clearly alot about the Hogyouku, Urahara and Aizen that we don't know.

http://www.mangareader.net/94-51581-...apter-403.html

Yeah, Urahara said it right freaking there. Aizens a monster. He's always been a monster,a few chapters before that he took down the Vizards and Gotei 13 by himself. Aizen's always been alot stronger than the majority of characters in this manga. Aizen was always stronger than Urahara. He's freaking Aizen. If Urahara and Aizen were on the same level of power, then Urahara could've just fought him by himself and been done with it a long time ago.

http://manga.animea.net/bleach-chapt...-page-225.html

That panel depicts Urahara being intimidated by Aizens reiatsu.

And that scene with Ulquiorra was CLEARLY meant to make Ulquiorra look strong, especially with Urahara's surprised look. There would be absolutely no other reason for Kubo to depict the scenario like that. Ulquiorra deflecting Urahara's attack with his hands WAS impressive.

Urahara is not going to defeat Ulquiorra like a noob like Aizen does to captains and vizards. For the god-knows-how-many-th time, I'm not saying he wouldn't win, but its not gonna be an easy fight for him, and you could definitely argue.

The finger flick move was not kidou. It was just a finger flick. Isshin didn't catch Aizen off guard, he just pwned him. They were clashing swords. Also, most of that fight was actually off screen, so we can't say he couldn't use it again or didn't use it again.

I still lean towards Isshin, even with Urahara's inventions. Hes better at combat, and catching him off guard isn't easy.

[Tonix]

Yeah, Jackk hit it right on. It's pretty clear Aizen meant they were equals in power before the Hogyoku made him stronger, saying otherwise is just outright denying manga canon for no reason at all

Urahara = Base Aizen in power, all the while being more intelligent

Being comparable in power does not mean that they were equals. It means that they were around the same level/in the same tier. Aizen was more than likely still stronger than Urahara before he fused with the hogyoku, but they were still close enough that Urahara could have conceivably beaten him if they were to fight.

[freshseth83]

Aizen even said before he subdued the hog' that his abilities were already above that of the Gotei 13. I still think Aizen talks out his ass, because if that were the case he would have been able to defeat them all, but he needed the espada, needed WW to seal RJ etc. etc. Aizen isn't the topic here, Isshin and Urahara are. I take Isshin in a FIGHT, not a battle of intellect. But that is what this is. A fight. With that thinking, Isshin isn't going to sit around waiting for Urahara to bring out kido spells and place seals on him. He's not careless, too strong for you, Aizen.

[Buzz Killington]

We no longer may be comparable in power doesn't mean equal, Aizen just meant that Urahara was no longer the same dimension of power as Aizen. That is true, since they could not even sense Aizen. Urahara has never displayed Aizen-level feats in terms of speed and power. Theres also clearly alot about the Hogyouku, Urahara and Aizen that we don't know.

He said equal, point blank period. Nothing to do with dimensions, just power. No need to start reaching for all these alternate explanations for such a simple matter.

Urahara hasn't displayed Aizen-level speed or power? He's shown better, in fact. A Full incanted Hado 91 after using other High Level Kido in quick succession, whereas Aizen failed to complete a Hado 90. Switching his gigai out at the moment of attack from a faster, stronger Aizen without him being able to tell the difference until it was too late

http://www.mangareader.net/94-51581-...apter-403.html

Yeah, Urahara said it right freaking there. Aizens a monster. He's always been a monster,a few chapters before that he took down the Vizards and Gotei 13 by himself. Aizen's always been alot stronger than the majority of characters in this manga. Aizen was always stronger than Urahara. He's freaking Aizen. If Urahara and Aizen were on the same level of power, then Urahara could've just fought him by himself and been done with it a long time ago.

This is irrelevant because its Hogyoku Aizen. Obviously he's a monster, you said he said this in TBTP, which he didn't. The bolded is also false, and you can't make such a statement. May as well say Yamamoto could've just destroyed Aizen a long time ago.

http://manga.animea.net/bleach-chapt...-page-225.html

That panel depicts Urahara being intimidated by Aizens reiatsu.

No it doesn't. That panel depicts Aizen telling Urahara he knows alot about him and Kisuke being surprised about it.

And that scene with Ulquiorra was CLEARLY meant to make Ulquiorra look strong, especially with Urahara's surprised look. There would be absolutely no other reason for Kubo to depict the scenario like that. Ulquiorra deflecting Urahara's attack with his hands WAS impressive.

Lets not get into what Kubo would do, seeing as you don't know it any more than I do. What we know is that Kisuke specifically stated he was firing another of the same attacks that was equal in power to Yammy's cero. If you find slapping that away impressive thats great. All that scene proved was that the short guy was stronger than the bigger one

Urahara is not going to defeat Ulquiorra like a noob like Aizen does to captains and vizards. For the god-knows-how-many-th time, I'm not saying he wouldn't win, but its not gonna be an easy fight for him, and you could definitely argue.

Let's put it this way. I don't see Urahara needing Bankai nor being in any danger of dying if he were to fight Ulquiorra.

The finger flick move was not kidou. It was just a finger flick. Isshin didn't catch Aizen off guard, he just pwned him. They were clashing swords. Also, most of that fight was actually off screen, so we can't say he couldn't use it again or didn't use it again.

That finger flick was Hado 1 Sho. Shunsui did the exact same thing here. Unless you're ready to claim that Isshin has more power in 1 finger than Yamamoto does in his fist, then there's no reason to believe it wasn't Kido

[exacta]

He said equal, point blank period. Nothing to do with dimensions, just power. No need to start reaching for all these alternate explanations for such a simple matter.

Urahara hasn't displayed Aizen-level speed or power? He's shown better, in fact. A Full incanted Hado 91 after using other High Level Kido in quick succession, whereas Aizen failed to complete a Hado 90. Switching his gigai out at the moment of attack from a faster, stronger Aizen without him being able to tell the difference until it was too late



This is irrelevant because its Hogyoku Aizen. Obviously he's a monster, you said he said this in TBTP, which he didn't. The bolded is also false, and you can't make such a statement. May as well say Yamamoto could've just destroyed Aizen a long time ago.



No it doesn't. That panel depicts Aizen telling Urahara he knows alot about him and Kisuke being surprised about it.



Lets not get into what Kubo would do, seeing as you don't know it any more than I do. What we know is that Kisuke specifically stated he was firing another of the same attacks that was equal in power to Yammy's cero. If you find slapping that away impressive thats great. All that scene proved was that the short guy was stronger than the bigger one



Let's put it this way. I don't see Urahara needing Bankai nor being in any danger of dying if he were to fight Ulquiorra.



That finger flick was Hado 1 Sho. Shunsui did the exact same thing here. Unless you're ready to claim that Isshin has more power in 1 finger than Yamamoto does in his fist, then there's no reason to believe it wasn't Kido

If the finger flick was Hado 1 Sho, then Isshin would've said Hado 1 Sho.....Thats some serious bullshit. Even if it was Sho, fact is it sent Aizen through several buildings without him even using the incantation. I don't think Shunsui did it in that scenario either, I think it was just a finger flick, but if it was Sho then when Shunsui did it, it just sent Chad flying a few feet. I'm telling you its not Sho, but even if it was, then that just makes Isshin look stronger than the current Gotei 13 captains. And no, I doubt Isshin has more power than Yama's 1 finger. If Yama flicked his finger at Aizen it'd probably do even more damage than when Isshin did it. Theres no reason to think it was kidou. And if neither Shunsui nor Isshin said Hado 1 Sho when they performed that attack, theres no reason to think it was. When Byakuya did it, he pointed at Rukia with his finger and she moved a few feet. Byakuya didnt flick his finger, what Isshin and Shunsui did is something different.

I said Urahara said that about Aizen right before he transformed, which is true, because before he saw the smoke clear revealing transformation he said he wasn't just any monster. He said that in FKT, not TBTP. I said Urahara was frightened by Aizen's reiatsu in TBTP.

That panel does show Urahara being intimidated by Aizen's reiatsu, and they are NOT equals in power. What Urahara did with his kidou is something I can see a decent amount of other characters doing, I wouldn' say it makes him the best kido user in the story, hes obviously proficien in it though. And yeah, Aizen screwed up Hado 90, but it was still enough to destroy Komamura. And that gigai thing is an invention that Urahara made. Aizen level power is speedblitzing Captains and slashing through Komamura's Bankai like butter, blocking swords with his hand, that kind of stuff. Kisuke does not possess those kind of physical abilities.

Urahara and Aizens are not equals in pure power, and I see Urahara needing Bankai to beat Ulquiorra. Its obvious Kubo used that scene to hype up Ulquiorra, Kubo does shit like that all the time. He never said equal, he said comparable.I'm not wasting time continuing this argument, its pointless. Aizen's reiatsu has always been a much higher level compared to Urahara's and other captains.

[Buzz Killington]

If the finger flick was Hado 1 Sho, then Isshin would've said Hado 1 Sho.....Thats some serious bullshit. Even if it was Sho, fact is it sent Aizen through several buildings without him even using the incantation. I don't think Shunsui did it in that scenario either, I think it was just a finger flick, but if it was Sho then when Shunsui did it, it just sent Chad flying a few feet. I'm telling you its not Sho, but even if it was, then that just makes Isshin look stronger than the current Gotei 13 captains. And no, I doubt Isshin has more power than Yama's 1 finger. If Yama flicked his finger at Aizen it'd probably do even more damage than when Isshin did it. Theres no reason to think it was kidou.

It was Kido. You don't have to say an incantation or a word to use Kido, Urahara's done it before too

Like I said, if you're gonna say that was just the force from 1 of Isshins fingers sending Aizen flying, then Yamamoto possesses less force in his entire fist, seeing as it didn't send Aizen anywhere

It's clearly obvious that was Kido. Just a very strong one because Isshin has alot of reiatsu to put behind it. Byakuya's Sho was similar to Shunsui's, although its safe to assume he wasn't putting full force into it

I said Urahara said that about Aizen right before he transformed, which is true, because before he saw the smoke clear revealing transformation he said he wasn't just any monster.

Urahara had already seen and Aizen had already talked about how the Hogyoku was making him nigh invincible, he even let us know here that was the case here, where he applied the seals before Aizens complete transformation

Those scans directly contradict your point. Also, you'd be interested to see this scan, which is before Kisuke made that statement as well.

Either way you look at it, your point would be invalidated

That panel does show Urahara being intimidated by Aizen's reiatsu, and they are NOT equals in power. What Urahara did with his kidou is something I can see a decent amount of other characters doing, I wouldn' say it makes him the best kido user in the story, hes obviously proficien in it though. And yeah, Aizen screwed up Hado 90, but it was still enough to destroy Komamura. And that gigai thing is an invention that Urahara made. Aizen level power is speedblitzing Captains and slashing through Komamura's Bankai like butter, blocking swords with his hand, that kind of stuff. Kisuke does not possess those kind of physical abilities.

As for the bolded, no it doesn't. At all

Unfortunately you constantly typing "They aren't equals in power" when Aizen clearly says they are in Canon means nothing to me, because its just you denying manga canon. So you're gonna have to try a different route to prove your point

Aizen messed up Hado 90, Urahara performed Hado 91 in succession after other high level Kido. Hado 90 knocking out Komamura doesn't mean much when you consider Aizen himself implied he would've had to run from the same attack if he wasn't empowered by the Hogyoku, meaning he saw it as dangerous. You know, the same guy who stops swords with fingers, cuts down Komamura etc, saw Urahara's Kido as life threatening

The gigai is Kisuke's invention, but its application requires precision and speed, so much so that his opponent can't see the switch happen. Aizen never did until after he'd attacked it, and this is a stronger faster form of Aizen than his normal shinigami form whom Kisuke had to time against perfectly

Urahara and Aizens are not equals in pure power, and I see Urahara needing Bankai to beat Ulquiorra. Its obvious Kubo used that scene to hype up Ulquiorra, Kubo does shit like that all the time. He never said equal, he said comparable.I'm not wasting time continuing this argument, its pointless.

Bolded is proven false, the rest is baseless conjecture

Its fine if you don't wanna continue, I'd encourage as much

[exacta]

It was Kido. You don't have to say an incantation or a word to use Kido, Urahara's done it before too

Like I said, if you're gonna say that was just the force from 1 of Isshins fingers sending Aizen flying, then Yamamoto possesses less force in his entire fist, seeing as it didn't send Aizen anywhere

It's clearly obvious that was Kido. Just a very strong one because Isshin has alot of reiatsu to put behind it. Byakuya's Sho was similar to Shunsui's, although its safe to assume he wasn't putting full force into it



Urahara had already seen and Aizen had already talked about how the Hogyoku was making him nigh invincible, he even let us know here that was the case here, where he applied the seals before Aizens complete transformation

Those scans directly contradict your point. Also, you'd be interested to see this scan, which is before Kisuke made that statement as well.

Either way you look at it, your point would be invalidated



As for the bolded, no it doesn't. At all

Unfortunately you constantly typing "They aren't equals in power" when Aizen clearly says they are in Canon means nothing to me, because its just you denying manga canon. So you're gonna have to try a different route to prove your point

Aizen messed up Hado 90, Urahara performed Hado 91 in succession after other high level Kido. Hado 90 knocking out Komamura doesn't mean much when you consider Aizen himself implied he would've had to run from the same attack if he wasn't empowered by the Hogyoku, meaning he saw it as dangerous. You know, the same guy who stops swords with fingers, cuts down Komamura etc, saw Urahara's Kido as life threatening

The gigai is Kisuke's invention, but its application requires precision and speed, so much so that his opponent can't see the switch happen. Aizen never did until after he'd attacked it, and this is a stronger faster form of Aizen than his normal shinigami form whom Kisuke had to time against perfectly



Bolded is proven false, the rest is baseless conjecture

Its fine if you don't wanna continue, I'd encourage as much

Sho wasn't even introduced until the HM arc, so obviously Shunsui didn't do it. You can't say it was kidou when it was just a simple flick without any incantation or kidou like energy being produced. It was not kidou.

Your also an idiot for not seeing that when Yamamoto tried to punch Aizen Wonderweiss intercepted. Seriously, what the hell?? Do you even look at the links you post?? In the middle panel you see Wonderweiss' body intercepting, and in the bottom you see Yamamoto smacking Wonderweiss away. How am I supposed to take your points seriously when you keep screwing up like that, all the while acting obnoxious about it?

In the scan you showed me, Aizen said right there that he no longer needs to dodge level 90s kidou, meaning he let Urahara hit him because he thought it would be meaningless. Urahara saying the old him wouldn't let himself get hit means the old Aizen probably would've dodged. And of course he would, level 90s kidou are usually quite powerful, normally you can't just sit there and take it. Hell, he took a Hado 96 from yamamoto and he escaped with only minor damage, and when Yamamoto cast it Aizen was standing right infront of him. Level 90s kido are dangerous, regardless of whether its Urahara casting them or not. Obviously he would run away if did not have the Hogyoku, and if he can effectively escape form Yama's higher-numbered kidou when Yamas literally holding his ankle, I'm pretty sure he can escape from Urahara's kidou, with minor damage at best. Urahara would not be able to get his seal in on the Aizen that didn't become careless due to fusing with the Hogyoku.

Aizen's reiatsu is stronger than Urahara's, Urahara does not have the same monstrous reiatsu. It's Uraharas inventions that could defeat Aizen, not his swordplay or agility, because this are not on Aizen's level as most characters aren't.

The post you showed me that said Aizen saying they were equals in power is a different translation, and its not the one I follow, and most people probably don't.

If me saying Urahara needs Bankai to defeat Ulquiorra is baseless conjecture, then what the hell is the opposite???? Isn't all of it baseless conjecture since they've never had a real fight anyway?? Either way its an opinion, and if you dismiss every different idea thens yours as wrong, then your a biggot. You didn't prove Aizen and Urahara were equals, Aizen's shunpo and sword swings are still on a different level, and Aizen even said he knew about Urahara's gigai and thought he wouldn't use such an attack or something of the sort. Doesn't mean Aizen is slower than Urahara, it has nothing to do with speed, you just can't tell the fake Urahara from the real one, it functions as a decoy. At this rate my post is probably going to get deleted.

Yeah I think I will discontinue this argument, your giving me a freaking headache, and your starting to act like a troll. No wonder your name is Buzz Killington, god.