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Thread: Will-O'-Wisp/Foxfire Kinemon, Samurai of the Wa Country

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member hoeru's Avatar
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    Will-O'-Wisp/Foxfire Kinemon, Samurai of the Wa Country

    As he's teaming up with the Straw Hats in the current PH arc, I think it could be good to have an extra thread for him for discussions and notes on him independent from the current chapter discussions.

    And I start with something that appears odd to me: On many pictures and photos from Samurai, we see their daishō (大小). A long Katana as daitō ("long sword"), and the shorter Wakizashi as shōtō ("short sword").

    So to say, Kinemon is wearing a "daidai" (大大) by two katana ... while "大大"/"大々" translates to "tall". So it's one of Oda's puns again?

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    Re: Will-O'-Wisp/Foxfire Kinemon, Samurai of the Wa Country

    I'm fond of this character already. I like it. The strong sense of tradition being easily surpassed by its own desires is something that I always find enjoyable. I love his technique, as well.

    And I'm not the first or the last to say this, but...I really want Kinemon to join the Mugiwaras for the 1,2,3 swords thing and the Fire vs Ice Sword. :P
    The Sky is pouring
    The wind is blowing
    The sea looks red,
    a surging sea of flames
    looks like the entrance to hell
    'Perfect', the captain said.

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    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity chess4's Avatar
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    Re: Will-O'-Wisp/Foxfire Kinemon, Samurai of the Wa Country

    i think kinemon is great...........cant wait to see him animated. I really hope he joins the crew. Kinemon being able to set things on fire, then cut his own fire, is a unique way to fight without being hax. Im sure kinemon has color of observation hak because he could sense things around him when he was not whole. he can still fight a logia user without having COA. If he doesnt join i will be a bit surprised.

    He has the silliness to be a strawhat and i think he is strong, but not to strong to upset the balance of the crew. Im sure his fruit power has a lot more use to it than just making clothes, just imagine the strawhats before every fight, kinemon makes clothes for them, with their emblem on the back. that would be so cool

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    Re: The Search for Straw Hat's New Nakama... - 2nd edition

    Dunno, to be honest I am kinda waiting on mononosuke to show up. Something about mononosuke just kinda has something weird. Why wouldn't he be with the other kids? To be honest I have my doubts about him being a kid at all and if he is from wano it would make sense if he was an adequate swordsman. Another thing is just how strong kinemon is. So far kinemon has shown the use of haki (which shows strength and experience) and insane swordsmanship, enough to match brook on haki alone and without a head and legs. Then we have the fact that wano is a militaristic nation with which even the marines don't mess around with. So, if kinemon is THIS strong (ok, it is still a little ambiguous but still) then wouldn't it make sense that he was somewhat important in his own land? Even if we don't know exactly how strong kinemon is, we know that the amount of people in any given force who have actual power is limited. The marines had the admirals and vice admirals, WB had his commanders, shanks had some 10 crewmembers and so on. Even if kinemon is not shichibukai level, if his strength is average then wano would be the single most powerful military force in OPverse. At the very least he would have a rank similar to commodore or vice admiral considering everything. Again, I am not saying he is supremely powerful or anything but the strength he has shown already is enough for him to have at least a moderately high position anywhere. In this regard, if he has such a position in wano, what are the odds he would just quit it to go pirating? on top of that he has at least a son and potentially an entire family.

    Well, the other side of the subplot of his son is whether he has a son there at all. If he thinks it is a kid then why wouldn't the kid have been with the other kids? We have the possibility of kinemon's son not being a kid and being experimented in other ways but how about the possibility of his kid not being there at all? I mean, it is kinda strange that there has been no mention of the son of a samurai yet. Law has made no mention of it, ceasar has not even entertained a thought on the matter and at large the whole thing seems ambiguous. What if kinemon just thinks ceasar has his son? Perhaps finding his son would work as a potential dream for kinemon.

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    Re: The Search for Straw Hat's New Nakama... - 2nd edition

    I agree with you on all points. Something is off about Mononosuke. If he were a child, he would have been in Bicuit's room, already identified by his father. That he was not there is incredibly strange, pointing to a major plot twist too come.
    Last edited by Kaiten; July 22, 2012 at 06:00 PM.

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    Re: Will-O'-Wisp/Foxfire Kinemon, Samurai of the Wa Country

    mononosuke is dead and has been dead. I think kinemon just cant handle the pain, and the son he is looking for is some kind of object or ghost, like a will o wisp

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member jamarTheDem's Avatar
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    Re: Will-O'-Wisp/Foxfire Kinemon, Samurai of the Wa Country

    Look at this ->> http://www.mangahere.com/manga/one_p...57/c555/8.html Ace says that he was at the Wano country before, that could mean that that's WAS Whitebeard and since blackbeard knows and reclaiming whitebeard Territory, so It could lead to a fight in the Wano kingdom with the straw hats vs the blackbeards pirates..? (Not a big one of course) or one of blackbeard men could be station there, And if y'all can't believe that look at the hat that ace was giving Oars, it looks like a samurai hat right?

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    Re: Will-O'-Wisp/Foxfire Kinemon, Samurai of the Wa Country

    Quote Originally Posted by chess4 View Post
    mononosuke is dead and has been dead. I think kinemon just cant handle the pain, and the son he is looking for is some kind of object or ghost, like a will o wisp
    Out of curiosity, what makes you think Mononosuke is dead and Kinemon is battling post-traumatic stress disorder? That is a pretty radical prediction about a character we know so little about. Oda clearly wants us to think he was among the children kidnapped by CC. While certainly suspicious that Mononosuke was not among the kidnapped children, the thought that he is already dead seems a little random, not something that really forwards the plot, or explains his absence in a satisfying way. Nor does it seem a plot twist typical of One Piece. I was actually thinking Mononosuke was actually closer to Luffy's age (late teens), rather than a child.
    Last edited by Kaiten; July 23, 2012 at 12:57 AM.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member jamarTheDem's Avatar
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    Re: Will-O'-Wisp/Foxfire Kinemon, Samurai of the Wa Country

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiten View Post
    Out of curiosity, what makes you think Mononosuke is dead and Kinemon is battling post-traumatic stress disorder? That is a pretty radical prediction about a character we know so little about. Oda clearly wants us to think he was among the children kidnapped by CC. While certainly suspicious that Mononosuke was not among the kidnapped children, the thought that he is already dead seems a little random, not something that really forwards the plot, or explains his absence in a satisfying way. Nor does it seem a plot twist typical of One Piece. I was actually thinking Mononosuke was actually closer to Luffy's age (late teens), rather than a child.
    Your right, Oda don't make people already dead, Ace is one of the only ones to die and that cause it was suppose to advance the plot later on. Also he could be in his late teen, but if that true that makes him a giant by now right? We still don't know how long Mononosuke been on that island and what people Kinemon had to force to tell where his child is. Also I noticed that all the kids came from "that certain island" but Mononosuke is from a wano country full of strong warriors so how could he been taking? The Wano country maybe ow CC and had to let him borrow a child as repayment, and CC would need that kid cause Wa people can cut though explosions, and if CC can prevent smiley the poison weapon from a explosion it won't have no weaknesses. Kinemon did not like the ideal and left to go find his child.
    Last edited by jamarTheDem; July 23, 2012 at 03:51 AM.

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    Re: Will-O'-Wisp/Foxfire Kinemon, Samurai of the Wa Country

    Quote Originally Posted by jamarTheDem View Post
    Look at this ->> http://www.mangahere.com/manga/one_p...57/c555/8.html Ace says that he was at the Wano country before, that could mean that that's WAS Whitebeard and since blackbeard knows and reclaiming whitebeard Territory, so It could lead to a fight in the Wano kingdom with the straw hats vs the blackbeards pirates..? (Not a big one of course) or one of blackbeard men could be station there, And if y'all can't believe that look at the hat that ace was giving Oars, it looks like a samurai hat right?
    Well, it was said rather recently that wano was an independent nation from pirates and the world government. I don't think it was ever part of WB's territory. And of course the hat would look like that if ace learned how to make them in the land of samurai. That only makes sense lol. Still, based on the facts that the manga has given it does not make sense that it would be part of any world force in particular.

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    Re: Will-O'-Wisp/Foxfire Kinemon, Samurai of the Wa Country

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Well, it was said rather recently that wano was an independent nation from pirates and the world government. I don't think it was ever part of WB's territory. And of course the hat would look like that if ace learned how to make them in the land of samurai. That only makes sense lol. Still, based on the facts that the manga has given it does not make sense that it would be part of any world force in particular.
    That is how I understand things; the Samurai are so strong that they have kept both the Marines and Pirates out. The protection of a Yonkou would not be necessary. I imagine that friendship with Kinemon is forerunner too the Strawhats befriending Wano Country in some future arc. I suspect they will become allies of Luffy either during or shortly after he and Law defeat a Yonkou.

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    Re: Will-O'-Wisp/Foxfire Kinemon, Samurai of the Wa Country

    Well, if wano has up to now been separated from government and pirate affairs it would be quite a development if they in some form affiliate to the strawhats. I mean, we would be talking about a country with a military so powerful that neither marines nor pirates dare deal with them. Still, there is another factor to consider here. Even if wano does become friends with the strawhats, why would they affiliate the strawhats? What benefit is there for them in doing such a thing? Even if wano has a powerful military I doubt it would be in their best interest to affiliate a pirate crew. Right now the manga has roughly implied a position of neutrality. The implication of this is that while they are not friends with either pirates or marines they are also not a threat. They are left to their own devices because as far as everyone knows they won't take part in anything.

    In turn, the second they join the strawhats they become a potential enemy to the marines and the yonko. The monster trio are insanely strong, any of them is comparable in strength to the shichibukai to say the least. So the marines and yonko could see this in 2 ways (which are basically the same but still): Either they see wano as suddenly gaining a massive military asset (the strawhats joining them means military might and technology for them potentially) or they see the strawhats as suddenly gaining the military might of a nation which has kept the 5 most powerful organizations in the world out (the WG and yonko) out for decades. As far as the marines and yonko will be able to tell the samurai are no longer neutral, they immediately become an active threat to every powerful organization in the world. All this does is basically shift the balance of power and such a shift will almost invariably end with war and chaos. Just look at what ace dying caused here. WB went to war with the world government, that lead to the formation of the BB pirates and their rampage through the new world, it would be impossible to estimate how many small time pirates went berserk over a chance for power (we saw nobodies attacking WB's former territory) and so on... Even if wano is not owned by a particular pirate it should logically be near to the territory of some yonko. Whoever is closest to wano would most likely freak over once he hears that nation in particular joined the strawhats. How would said yonko react? Potentially, how would all the yonko react? How would the world government react? Can the strawhats handle the chaos? Would the revolutionaries be happy about this? If wano is an independent nation then odds are the revolutionaries will have an opinion on their stand. Of course, the most logical development here would be that they are also neutral with the revolutionaries however if they do have such an stand on the subject it would not be strange if the revolutionaries would try to remain in contact with them.

    Of course, there is a lot of speculation on my part here. The actual positions of the country are at large unknown to us and there could be a number of other factors at play here. Still, overall the nation of wano ending their neutrality would be an overwhelmingly huge development, one which the other sides would not enjoy unless it benefits them.

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    Re: Will-O'-Wisp/Foxfire Kinemon, Samurai of the Wa Country

    At the end of every arc the Strawhats inevitably leave as friends of the islands notables. If there is a Wano Country arc, I fully expect form to hold, with the Strawhats and Samurai forming a lasting bond. How that bond is formed, I could not guess. That would require me to write the Wano Arc, not Oda. However the story proceeds, the arc ending with a promise between Luffy and the Samurai, to fight for each if ever either side is in need, would be a fitting turn of events. It is doubtful that the World Government would view all out war against the Wano Country as necessary. The war against Whitebeard was launched only because Ace is the son of Roger. They were willing to risk a breakdown in the balance of power if it meant eradicating Roger's bloodline. It is doubtful they would risk all out war over an alliance with Wano Country. Due to the strength of the Samurai, neither Blackbeard nor Kaido would want to risk invasion. They would be a powerful ally and deterrent to attack by the other Yonkou. Also, Wano Country could well be near territory of the Yonkoou Luffy and Law defeat. We do not yet know if Yonkou country is contiguous, or consist of widely dispersed islands.

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    Re: Will-O'-Wisp/Foxfire Kinemon, Samurai of the Wa Country

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Well, if wano has up to now been separated from government and pirate affairs it would be quite a development if they in some form affiliate to the strawhats. I mean, we would be talking about a country with a military so powerful that neither marines nor pirates dare deal with them. Still, there is another factor to consider here. Even if wano does become friends with the strawhats, why would they affiliate the strawhats? What benefit is there for them in doing such a thing? Even if wano has a powerful military I doubt it would be in their best interest to affiliate a pirate crew. Right now the manga has roughly implied a position of neutrality. The implication of this is that while they are not friends with either pirates or marines they are also not a threat. They are left to their own devices because as far as everyone knows they won't take part in anything.

    In turn, the second they join the strawhats they become a potential enemy to the marines and the yonko. The monster trio are insanely strong, any of them is comparable in strength to the shichibukai to say the least. So the marines and yonko could see this in 2 ways (which are basically the same but still): Either they see wano as suddenly gaining a massive military asset (the strawhats joining them means military might and technology for them potentially) or they see the strawhats as suddenly gaining the military might of a nation which has kept the 5 most powerful organizations in the world out (the WG and yonko) out for decades. As far as the marines and yonko will be able to tell the samurai are no longer neutral, they immediately become an active threat to every powerful organization in the world. All this does is basically shift the balance of power and such a shift will almost invariably end with war and chaos. Just look at what ace dying caused here. WB went to war with the world government, that lead to the formation of the BB pirates and their rampage through the new world, it would be impossible to estimate how many small time pirates went berserk over a chance for power (we saw nobodies attacking WB's former territory) and so on... Even if wano is not owned by a particular pirate it should logically be near to the territory of some yonko. Whoever is closest to wano would most likely freak over once he hears that nation in particular joined the strawhats. How would said yonko react? Potentially, how would all the yonko react? How would the world government react? Can the strawhats handle the chaos? Would the revolutionaries be happy about this? If wano is an independent nation then odds are the revolutionaries will have an opinion on their stand. Of course, the most logical development here would be that they are also neutral with the revolutionaries however if they do have such an stand on the subject it would not be strange if the revolutionaries would try to remain in contact with them.

    Of course, there is a lot of speculation on my part here. The actual positions of the country are at large unknown to us and there could be a number of other factors at play here. Still, overall the nation of wano ending their neutrality would be an overwhelmingly huge development, one which the other sides would not enjoy unless it benefits them.
    Your right, Straw hats having such power would shake up the world, but if nobody knew about the straw hats and the Wano country joining arms it wouldn't be a problem right? I feel that this is what Luffy needs, people to have his back without the world knowing about it, cause i'm sure that most yonko have hidden pirates crew that join forces with them, just like Whitebeard had. I'm saying that Luffy and the crew is strong, (even though nun of them showed there "true" powers yet) but to face a yonko or two they need the help of a powerful force too in the shadow, to me the Straw hats going to the Wano country is a must, and i'm sure its go be a great adventure for the next arc. Think about it Gol. D Roger sailed all across the world, and I'm sure that the Wano people respect Whitebeard and Roger to let them in there kingdom, even if the people are fishy of and does not acknowledge Luffy, they WILL acknowledge him once they see the qualities Luffy has just like the pirate king and the strongest man had. Kinemon and Mononosuke will need a way to return anyway, and if the post is pointing to the Wano country then they will mostly go there as the plot anyways.
    Last edited by jamarTheDem; July 23, 2012 at 02:32 PM.

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Will-O'-Wisp/Foxfire Kinemon, Samurai of the Wa Country

    Quote Originally Posted by jamarTheDem View Post
    Your right, Straw hats having such power would shake up the world, but if nobody knew about the straw hats and the Wano country joining arms it wouldn't be a problem right? I feel that this is what Luffy needs, people to have his back without the world knowing about it, cause i'm sure that most yonko have hidden pirates crew that join forces with them, just like Whitebeard had. I'm saying that Luffy and the crew is strong, (even though nun of them showed there "true" powers yet) but to face a yonko or two they need the help of a powerful force too in the shadow, to me the Straw hats going to the Wano country is a must, and i'm sure its go be a great adventure for the next arc. Think about it Gol. D Roger sailed all across the world, and I'm sure that the Wano people respect Whitebeard and Roger to let them in there kingdom, even if the people are fishy of and does not acknowledge Luffy, they WILL acknowledge him once they see the qualities Luffy has just like the pirate king and the strongest man had. Kinemon and Mononosuke will need a way to return anyway, and if the post is pointing to the Wano country then they will mostly go there as the plot anyways.
    I like that idea. Kinda like what just went on in fishman island. Big mom knows luffy is out to get her and her turf but in all likelihood she is unaware that jinbe and neptune are rather eager for the day it finally happens. Assuming something similar happens in each location he goes to he could end up building a rather powerful force under the nose of the world without anyone noticing. Luffy could potentially create his turf overnight like this assuming he manages to keep his friendships in secret.

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