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Thread: When Luffy meets his father, Dragon, what will happen?

  1. #61
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: When Luffy meets his father, Dragon, what will happen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiten View Post
    Are you kidding me

    The Revolutionary Army are obviously good guys. The leader is Luffy's father who is quite obviously not a Darth Vader like evil dad. At Luffy's greatest time of need the second in command, Ivankov, came to Luffy's aid. After Marineford Ivankov spent two years personally training Sanji. Kuma, a former revolutionary, saved Luffy and crew twice. The first time he ignored Government orders to kill them at Thriller Bark. The second time he rescued them from a Marine Admiral and sent them to islands where they could best train and prepare for the battles to come. He came to the Strawhat's aid even after being turned into a machine, requesting a special mission be programmed in to protect the Sunny until the first Strawhat returned. Now you mean to tell me it isn't absolutely fucking obvious what side the Revolutionaries are on. GTFO with that shit
    I never said that they have any ill intent. I just think that they are after the antique weapons. I can't give any direct proof for that. It's a theory based on how I interpret things and there's no need to get insulting.

    Ah, what about Kuma torturing Zorro? Sure, it might have been to test Luffys friends, but it is still not something "good".

    Quote Quote:
    Revolutions don't work that way

    Since when have uprisings used set piece combat to defeat seated governments? Attack peripheral provinces, erode the base of support, conduct guerrilla warfare, disrupt trade, win the hearts and minds of the people, maybe start some riots. Even an idiot would know that the Revolutionary Army lacks the resources of the World Government. The World Government has all the worlds resources at their fingers. That is why the revolutionaries have not launched an attack on Mariejois, instead they have been leading revolts in the periphery of the One Piece world. That is how revolutions work. Wiki the Chinese Civil War if you have any questions about this process.
    Actually, the important and deciding events of the french revolution happened in Paris. The RA will have to attack Mariejois. WB hinted a war once One Piece is found. Where do you think this war will happen? In the outer reaches of North Blue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Schabrak View Post
    We don't know how many, but we know that it's an army that has already toppled numerous governments, which lead to Dragon being the most wanted man on earth, not some top tier pirate. Also it's all citizens taking part, not just soldiers, that's what revolutionaries are.
    But normal citizen can't fight. 10 Battleships with 5 VAs are enough to cleanse entire Islands. Do you think a bunch of citizen can stop the World Government?

    Quote Quote:
    What are you talking about with random trash? Nobody was sent to capture her. They asked her nicely, no threats were made. She initially said no, they were very nice to her. After Luffy rang the Ox Bell and she knew that they were seperating for two years she changed her mind and sought them out. Te "random trash" (lulz) were not comparable to CP9, they were not trying to take her by force. They were escorts, sent to politely ask for her company. Please reread chapters 593 and chapter 596 before responding.
    I was talking about the guys that captured fake Robin at Sabaody. I thought that would be clear.
    Last edited by McNuss; May 08, 2012 at 05:40 PM.

  2. #62
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Schabrak's Avatar
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    Re: When Luffy meets his father, Dragon, what will happen?

    Quote Originally Posted by McNuss View Post
    I never said that they have any ill intent. I just think that they are after the antique weapons. I can't give any direct proof for that. It's a theory based on how I interpret things and there's no need to get insulting.
    Halfwitted ideas with nothing to base them on, but an idea speaking against everything presented to us will get dismissed to enable realistic discussions. And as Kaiten mentioned there is nothing indicating that they want the ancient weapons, it's like you ignored his explanatory post.

    Quote Quote:
    Ah, what about Kuma torturing Zorro? Sure, it might have been to test Luffys friends, but it is still not something "good".
    We don't know Kumas agenda at that time, he might have tested them for his own purposes, additionally it was never hinted to that the RA gave him orders to do anything to them. At that moment he was no RA commander anymore, but a Shichibukai. Testing Zorro might just be what it seems to be, a test of the the second strongest member. If he didn't have life/stamina/whatever to withstand the attack, he would mark them as unable to climb to the top, particularly near the border to the New World. In the end he deemed them worthy but recognised them as still to weak, teleporting them to training places for each of them.

    Quote Quote:
    Actually, the important and deciding events of the french revolution happened in Paris. The RA will have to attack Mariejois. WB hinted a war once One Piece is found. Where do you think this war will happen? In the outer reaches of North Blue?
    I doubt Oda intends to revisualize the french revolution, nor does he have to follow that principle. France != A whole world with continents and scattered islands separated by a gigantic ocean. If he's able to force the Marines out of e.g. the West and North Blue[or South and East] at the same time, he could accomplish to force them out to one side of the world/Redline, which would be a big game changer. Once the World Government has no basis within that territory anymore, the WG's supply would be depletable, thus reducing their fighting force through treason or support for the revolution by the citizens. What can the WG do when all of the worlds kingdoms are supporting the RA's cause? They will need to give up or fight with a smaller force, making the weaker with each revolutionised country.

    Quote Quote:
    But normal citizen can't fight. 10 Battleships with 5 VAs are enough to cleanse entire Islands. Do you think a bunch of citizen can stop the World Government?
    Think about it. Using a Buster Call on a free island would be destructive and nothing but counterproductive to the moral of the marine soldiers. Back at Ohara they had nobody to report things, but if such information is distributed by the press, it would only cause treason within the marine forces itself and a loss of support throughout all governed islands. While Akainu is the ideal person to start such events, leading to a wide-spread war with the RA, I doubt even he would be so blind to that not come to the same conclusion. The process is a slow and lasting one, running for over ten years already, if they could just retake the islands they would have done so already.

    Even normal citizens can fight as shown with the RA. What do you think that organisation consists of? Ex mercenaries and marines only? I can be a fighter too, just give me a weapon and some time to train.

    Quote Quote:
    I was talking about the guys that captured fake Robin at Sabaody. I thought that would be clear.
    He's mentioning them, because it's those very same group you accuse of trying to hinder Luffys objectives, while he's obviously an important catalyst, as acknowledged by important characters within the RA. Thus your theory makes no sense, if you read every piece of information regarding the RA. They don't kidnap good people, they promote freedom, that's the most important point. edit: the very bottom of Kaitens post[#63] pretty much answers your question. Which leads me to the conclusion that you didn't read the chapters you are talking about thoroughly enough.
    Last edited by Schabrak; May 08, 2012 at 06:42 PM. Reason: grammar
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  3. #63
    Harasho 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Kaiten's Avatar
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    Re: When Luffy meets his father, Dragon, what will happen?

    Quote Originally Posted by McNuss View Post
    I never said that they have any ill intent. I just think that they are after the antique weapons. I can't give any direct proof for that. It's a theory based on how I interpret things and there's no need to get insulting.
    What in the story led you to believe this? What are you interpreting to reach this conclusion? Is there something in the story to imply that the Revolutionary Armies goal is to recover the ancient weapons? I have not read anything connecting them in any way to the weapons. There is no reason to believe that Robin would ever be so reckless as to tell them the location of Pluton and Poseidon, in the past she has been shown to excerise all due caution when discussing these things. So please: where is it implied that the Revolutionaries have any interest in the weapons, and where was it implied that there interest in Robin had any connection to the weapons.

    Quote Quote:
    Ah, what about Kuma torturing Zorro? Sure, it might have been to test Luffys friends, but it is still not something "good".
    lol. Now your just playing semantics games. Luffy has grieviously injured many characters. Is Luffy evil for hurting Rob Lucci, Buggy, Crocodile, Hodi, Gecko Moria, etc. Kuma was given direct orders to kill everyone at Thriller Bark, not just the Strawhats. The World Government ordered him to execute all who witnessed the defeat of Gecko Moria. Instead he injured a single, strong pirate, who survived his injuries. He later saved the same characters life, breaking his orders again, and sent him somewhere he could get stronger. So please, don't play word games with me.

    Quote Quote:
    Ohara was burned down to hide the past. Dragon can't know of anything else besides the antique weapons, unless he is able to understand the poneglyphs or has heard about the truth from Whitebeard or an Ex-Roger pirate. The past does matter for the story and it will also matter for the RA, but right now it most likely doesn't
    How would Dragon know of the ancient weapons but not the Blank Century? Robin does not know the true history, she has not found the Rio Poneglyph. But would it not be more logical that they are seeking her knowledge on a variety of subject, hoping to learn whatever she knows about the ancient kingdom. More importantly: why would you think she would willingly tell anyone outside of the strawhats about the ancient weapons?

    Quote Quote:
    Actually, the important and deciding events of the french revolution happened in Paris. The RA will have to attack Mariejois. WB hinted a war once One Piece is found. Where do you think this war will happen? In the outer reaches of North Blue?
    The French Revolution was not an armed revolt, last I checked. It was not decided on the battlefield, nor was it a civil war. I assume you are referring to the storming of the Bastille, though I fail to see how that has anything in common with the revolutionary army. Nor was it a battle between government forces and rebels; it was a small, lightly guarded jail stormed by citizens of Paris, few of whom were actually armed. It was more symbolic than anything else. The real key to the French Revolution was the Third Estate walking out of the Estate's General, forming a shadow government on a Versailles tennis court. In order to appropriate money for his bankrupt government Louis XVI was forced to concede to the Third Estates demands, creating a constitutional monarchy. Only later, after neighboring monarchies declare war, was the king deposed, executed, and the First Republic created. The French Revolution has little in common with the Revolutionary Army in One Piece. As I implied earlier, they have more in common with the Chinese Communists and the Chinese Civil War.

    Quote Quote:
    But normal citizen can't fight. 10 Battleships with 5 VAs are enough to cleanse entire Islands. Do you think a bunch of citizen can stop the World Government?
    Do you read the news? Normal citizens overthrew the Egyptian government. The Libyan civil war was fought by citizens. Even when unsuccessful citizens revolts tend to destabilize regimes. Look at Russia after 1905. Look at Syria today. With an armed, trained Revolutionary Army to take advantage, civil unrest would be a very dangerous thing.

    Quote Quote:
    I was talking about the guys that captured fake Robin at Sabaody. I thought that would be clear.
    It wasn't. I'm not even sure what fake Robin has to do with this discussion. Those were marines arrested "Nico Robin" http://www.mangahere.com/manga/one_p...8/c598/21.html

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  5. #64
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: When Luffy meets his father, Dragon, what will happen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiten View Post
    What in the story led you to believe this? What are you interpreting to reach this conclusion? Is there something in the story to imply that the Revolutionary Armies goal is to recover the ancient weapons? I have not read anything connecting them in any way to the weapons. There is no reason to believe that Robin would ever be so reckless as to tell them the location of Pluton and Poseidon, in the past she has been shown to excerise all due caution when discussing these things. So please: where is it implied that the Revolutionaries have any interest in the weapons, and where was it implied that there interest in Robin had any connection to the weapons.
    The Revolutionaries need power. The antique weapons were left by a civilisation wiped out by the World Government. Their locations are written on indestructible stone. This leads me to believe that the purpose of the antique weapons is to defeat the World Government, and that they have the power to do so. That's why they were left by the lost civilisation, so that a future genereation can defeat their enemys.

    Quote Quote:
    lol. Now your just playing semantics games. Luffy has grieviously injured many characters. Is Luffy evil for hurting Rob Lucci, Buggy, Crocodile, Hodi, Gecko Moria, etc. Kuma was given direct orders to kill everyone at Thriller Bark, not just the Strawhats. The World Government ordered him to execute all who witnessed the defeat of Gecko Moria. Instead he injured a single, strong pirate, who survived his injuries. He later saved the same characters life, breaking his orders again, and sent him somewhere he could get stronger. So please, don't play word games with me.
    No, but Rob Lucci, Buggy, Crocodile, Hodi, Gecko Moria, etc. were his enemies. Kuma and Luffy weren't enemies, as Brain-Intact. Kuma worked for Dragon. The thing I wanted to imply is, that the RA has good intentions, but they use very harsh methods to achieve them. They aren't the Gandhi-style revolutionaries.

    Quote Quote:
    Do you read the news? Normal citizens overthrew the Egyptian government. The Libyan civil war was fought by citizens. Even when unsuccessful citizens revolts tend to destabilize regimes. Look at Russia after 1905. Look at Syria today. With an armed, trained Revolutionary Army to take advantage, civil unrest would be a very dangerous thing.
    The issue is that the Egyptian Government didn't have invincible magma-throwing admirals. The strenght of Humans differs a lot more in One Piece than it does in the real world. One Piece humans can be more powerful than almost any weapon we have in the reality.

    Quote Quote:
    It wasn't. I'm not even sure what fake Robin has to do with this discussion. Those were marines arrested "Nico Robin" http://www.mangahere.com/manga/one_p...8/c598/21.html
    I don't think they were confirmed as marines.

  6. #65
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Schabrak's Avatar
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    Re: When Luffy meets his father, Dragon, what will happen?

    Quote Originally Posted by McNuss View Post
    The Revolutionaries need power. The antique weapons were left by a civilisation wiped out by the World Government. Their locations are written on indestructible stone. This leads me to believe that the purpose of the antique weapons is to defeat the World Government, and that they have the power to do so. That's why they were left by the lost civilisation, so that a future genereation can defeat their enemys..
    That doesn't mean that they have to use those weapons, moreover why would they use mass attacking weapons when their fights are between citizens. It's not that all marine soldiers are bad, they just have to be assimilated into the army when the government is stabilized Imo.

    I'm sure that Franky will never reveal the blueprint of Neptune to somebody, just as Robin will never reveal the secret of Poseidon to a non-mugiwara, why should they. More importantly,how would the RA have knowledge about the ancient weapons ? They weren't at Skypia, they have no ties to Franky/Tom, did not take part in the civil war at Alabasta and they couldn't have read any of the Poneglyphs without Nico Robin. Answer this please.

    Quote Quote:
    Kuma worked for Dragon. The thing I wanted to imply is, that the RA has good intentions, but they use very harsh methods to achieve them. They aren't the Gandhi-style revolutionaries.
    The emphasis is on worked, before Iva was imprisoned. Which could have been before his titling as Shichibukai. If you have any source material to support your arguments, post them here. And as I previously wrote, did they die or not? No, nobody of the mugiwaras did contrary to a direct order to kill.

    Quote Quote:
    The issue is that the Egyptian Government didn't have invincible magma-throwing admirals. The strenght of Humans differs a lot more in One Piece than it does in the real world. One Piece humans can be more powerful than almost any weapon we have in the reality.

    I don't think they were confirmed as marines.
    Do you really believe that the RA would have become as dangerous as they are because they are full of fodder? Oda doesn't reveal much, unless necessary for the current situation, so it's not hard to imagine that he won't reveal any strong commanders until very late in the manga. Just as he did with the Shichibukai, Garp, Sengoku or the admirals. Sometimes, you just have to wait and reflect on past events.

    And even if there are no other strong people in the RA, the WG can't reign and win a war with three people alone, that's the most important point. I can imagine them employing the new series of Pacifista into the civil wars though, to tease both the new version and some new revolutionaries.
    Last edited by Schabrak; July 16, 2012 at 07:29 AM. Reason: +is
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  7. #66
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: When Luffy meets his father, Dragon, what will happen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Schabrak View Post
    They weren't at Skypia, they have no ties to Franky/Tom, did not take part in the civil war at Alabasta and they couldn't have read any of the Poneglyphs without Nico Robin. Answer this please.
    How did Croco know about Pluton? Somewhere in the underground, knowledge about the weapons exists.

    Quote Quote:
    The emphasis is on worked, before Iva was imprisoned. Which could have been before his titling as Shichibukai. If you have any source material to support your arguments, post them here. And as previously wrote, did they die or not? No, nobody of the mugiwaras did contrary to a direct order to kill.
    Kuma used to work for the Revolutionary army until he was completely transformed into a PX. He even said to Rayleigh that he works for them. Yes, nobody of them died, but that doesn't change the fact that it was torture against someone who shouldn't even be your enemy.

  8. #67
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Schabrak's Avatar
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    Re: When Luffy meets his father, Dragon, what will happen?

    Thanks, I will have to retract my earlier statement.

    It still doesn't explain why they would want to use those weapons. You build up your argument about the ancient weapons from your incorrent assumption that those agents were members of the RA. With that falling through the roof, what's the basis for your theory, but your own imagination? Is there any data in OP supporting your theory?

    As a Shichibukai every pirate is his enemy, as a revolutionary marines as well as pirates are his enemies. Should he really care about Luffy just because of his blood relation? If Garp were to fight against him, should he not have fought back because of the blood? He tested and evaluated them as worthy, they should be lucky to still be alive after their encounter. He even led them to their perfect training islands later on. Franky beat Ussop up merely because he was a pirate, noW he's even a member of the crew. Oda has shown over time, that getting hurt doesn't always make them to their enemies.

    Getting lore served twice in a post, Hut ab! :P
    Last edited by Schabrak; May 09, 2012 at 06:41 PM. Reason: to many errors today, time to go offline
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  9. #68
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: When Luffy meets his father, Dragon, what will happen?

    I expect Luffy to just pick his nose and say to Dragon, "Who are you?"

    I'm not sure why there's such a heated argument above, since it IS possible the rebels want to find the weapons. I mean, they did want Robin's knowledge and I was under the impression that the kidnappers may have been rebels. Now, that doesn't mean that they want the weapons to cause destruction, maybe just that they want to be sure the WG doesn't have them. I'd be surprised if they DIDN'T want to know anything about them. Regardless, I don't see the point in arguing. One Piece isn't very predictable, anyway.

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