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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
He didn't used it when Hichigo was beating the shit outta him, so he basically couldn't, or are you implying that he wasn't serious when Ichigo fought him?
She stated that Byakuya couldn't catch her with "that level of shunpo", so she looks down on his speed.
Byakuya also made a good excuse for not following her "I lost my interest", yeah really he got outrun by Yoruichi who was carrying someone.
And she could also use cicada to avoid being trapped.
Shunko will just blast Yoruichi out of SKY, that's all there is to it.
Although some people just give all the credit to those freakin' gauntlets, Byakuya will get the exact same treatment if he gets hit, casual Yoruichi's punches brought down Yammy, who was more durable then Byakuya.
Shunko is a combination of Hakuda and Kidou. The punches are obviously gonna do far more damage than the actual blast. It's just like Ichigo using a GT connected to his sword to crack Ulqiorra's zanpakuto.
Originally Posted by ki0
Aizen was stopped by a Rikujyoukoro, and injured with a Byakurai. This was all while he was changing into a more powerful form. If a level 4 kidou can hurt him, there's no reason why Soukatsui wouldn't, as it's a mid-level kidou if I remember correctly.
Based on what? Infact, her claim of it being dangerous was a warning to Soi Fon about it's application and her inability to use it correctly yet. You're trying to make it sound like it's more powerful than it's actually shown to be.
It's a kidou, with no rank, that hasn't been shown to be lethal to anyone. No way in hell it's power compares to anything we've seen above 89. And since any kidou below 89, Byakuya states he can negate... there you go. Until someone convinces me that attack is more than a fancy Soukatsui, I've no reason to believe Byakuya can't negate it.
Byakuya's vision is impared by firing Soukatsui... but Yoruichi's isn't by firing Shunko? When they're practically the same damn technique? That's double standards.
Except she isn't by way of not showing she was capable of doing so. You'd have to believe that her speed doubled from the feats she showed us while carrying Ichigo, and I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you don't believe that.
I know it's different. What Byakuya did was leaps and bounds far more impressive. Do you think, even for a second, that any of those ninja were even half as fast as Zommari?
Originally Posted by Kugo Ginjou
You know what, first, prove that Byakuya could even perform a Cicada back then, rather than learning before the Winter War. I don't know where you're getting this made up limitation on Cicada, but the fact that it's baseless is the reason it keeps being ignored.
Yeah, because he was free to strike at every angle he saw a petal coming from, with his sword being big enough to cut a patch of petals out of the air with each swipe. Shunko shoots in one direction. One. Yet for some reason you're saying she's gonna shoot STRAIGHT FORWARD, and knock down every petal? The one's above her head? Behind her back? Underneath her feat? To her sides?
You really don't see the flaw here?
Last edited by ninjabot; March 09, 2011 at 05:59 AM.
And Urahara has shown to be one of the best kido-users, he is better then Byakuya at kido with feats and hype alone.
The only time when Yoruichi could've been Yoruichi's teacher was 100 years ago when she was still a captain.
That was the only interaction that they had between eachother, they also played tag in the TBTP arc so it seems that Byakuya was learning shunpo from Yoruichi.
The next time they saw eachother was the SS arc but that was very short and after Ichigo defeated Byakuya they went back to the human world where she was staying practically the whole time, because we also saw her fighting Yammy.
When did we saw Yoruichi teaching Byakuya something after the SS arc?
Well we didn't, try again
Nope, I don't see a flaw
Last edited by Kugo Ginjo; March 09, 2011 at 06:05 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
I don't see even a fully powered and chanted Kurohitsugi being able to damage Aizen to that extent.
You also have to remember that a level 96 sacrifical Kido barely had an effect on Aizen, and that was before he melded with the Hougyokyu.
Last edited by Deepak5191; March 09, 2011 at 06:19 AM.
IMO the fact that shunko increases her power so much, means that shunko is plently powerful by itself.Quote:
Aizen said that spell was weak. It seems both Urahara and Aizen thought it wouldn't be enough to hold a Aizen at that point. How do we know Urahara used Byakurai? He used that technique from his sword, for all we know it's a zan technique. The anime even depicted it as a zan technique (it's not canon, but what else do we have to go on?)Quote:
A level 90 kido didn't even phase Aizen, at that time.
Yoruichi only said it was dangerous after, she fired a huge blast at Soi Fong. Nothing implies it dangerous if used improperly.Quote:
Yoruichi vision would be impaired too, but it would stop Byakuya from being able to use continue attacking her with SKY.Quote:
Why would have to believe her speed doubled?Quote:
IMO what Byakuya did wasn't impressive as you think. What Byakuya did was react to one clone, than next one after he beat the first one. It's the same as just reacting to Zommari using just sonido. The reason why it isn't impressive to me is because he didn't deal with the clones simultaneously. It's more like he dealt with Zommari sonido 3 different times than, when Zommari surprised him and used 2 simultaneously he had to use Cicada.Quote:
The fact that Yoruichi took out the guards in an instant, before Soi Fong could react, means she could be in 15 different places in an instant.
Last edited by En Yang Ji; March 09, 2011 at 06:30 AM.
What does being "dangerous" have to do with anything? If used properly, a single sword strike can kill someone in one hit. Everything is dangerous if used properly. Byakuya KO'd Ichigo with a freaking level 4 Kido.Quote:
For a short time. Regardless, it doesn't give her much of an opening. If she's blocking her line of sight every time the petals go after her, that screws her up far more than Byakuya. You're also making it seem like Shunko is infinite. It's a Kido tech, so it's powered by Reiatsu, the more she uses it, the weaker she's gonna get.Quote:
As far as I can tell, it was an exaggeration. What it comes down to is that you can always use the "Yoroichi was rusty" excuse to justify a speed increase. How much of a speed increase is purely speculative, and because of that, people can act like she'll be speeblitzing Byakuya (not necessarily you).Quote:
Taking out fodder characters is a feat now? Also, what do you mean, before Soi Fon could react? She wasn't trying to react to anything, 10 seconds later we see that Soi Fon is actually faster than Yoroichi, she was caught off guard, that's all.
He was changing, already growing beyond his limits thanks to Isshin, and you've no proof that Urahara's basic kidou are any stronger than Byakuya's, unless his kidou stat in the databook is 100. Custom kidou? Sure, those are stronger. But basic? No reason to assume.
Good point. So now all you have to do is prove that Byakuya was fighting Ichigo with the mindset to deceive and outrun rather than humilate and overpower him, and also prove that Ichigo wasn't shielded by plot. What is it you're arguing anyway? That Byakuya will just out of nowhere decide he's not gonna use the technique? When he's shown that he's not above using when it's actually necessary?
...you can't possibly...
I'll simplify. If you can fire a blast that can cover your entire front... at an attack that's hitting you from above, behind, to the side, and beneath... how in the hell do you plan on blocking all the other attacks when you're blowing away the incoming ones? I never said Byakuya would wait for a complete Gokei mind you. All he has to do is do exactly what he did to Ichigo: close the blades in by guidig with his hands.
And for those of you thinking she's gonna run straight through the blades to hit him, remember that Byakuya, with his basic form of SKY, cut through the second strongest hierro in the series. Yoruichi hurt her hands on Yammi (unreleased Yammi at that!!) from striking him. The thought of her bum rushing through an ocean of razor blades is just dumb.
Last edited by ninjabot; March 09, 2011 at 03:26 PM.
1. Youruichi has never been shown to turn her shuunko on and off and use it freely. The most we have seen her use it is once per battle.
2. Why exactly are we assuming that she is faster than bankai ichigo? Ichigo's bankai compresses his SP to boost his speed to abnormal levels. Youruichi's speed is only praised in terms of shuunpo.
3. Byakuya only underestimated ichigo because he was a human boy who gained powers due to rukia. Youruichi is the head of a noble clan and a captain. There is no way he would underestimate her
He clearly stated "The techniques that Yoruichi taught me"
Two different sites say the same:
You are making no sense at all here, especially the bolded.
I only said that it was heavily implied that Byakuya learned shunpo from Yoruichi and he also learned techniques from her, this doesn't necessarily mean that every shinigami had her as their shunpo-teacher, why the hell did you even bring that up?
Shunko =/= Cicada, it was also implied that the best Hakuda users could do it because of this:
People like Soi Fon and Yoruichi (The best Hakuda masters and captains of the 2nd division) have the potential to learn Shunko, hence they have that special outfit.
You will probably deny it anyway though.
She doesn't need to replicate Ichigo's feat against SKY.
Byakuya caught Ichigo with a sphere, blasting your way out if it creates a hole in it, and a fairly big one if you look at Yoruichi's shunko, so she can escape through that hole and shunpo behind Byakuya to attack him.
Ichigo did it, I see no reason why The Goddess of Flash and a very experienced person on top of that, couldn't.
She doesn't need to turn it on and off, and it was never implied nor said that she couldn't use it more then once per battle.
2 So Ichigo's bankai gives him godlike speed that is above Shunpo?
Prove that Ichigo wasn't using Shunpo anyway.
3. In this tournament, the participants don't know eachother, so basically Byakuya is gonna act arrogant like he always does and thus he will underestimate Yoruichi as much as he underestimated Ichigo.
When did Byakuya show good hado?
It was implied that hado is harder then Bakudo and I will give you some examples for that:
Byakuya using Danku a #81 Bakudo but his best hado so far was hado #33.
Tessai using Bakudo#99, highest hado was hado #89
Kira using Bakudo #73, highest hado was hado #58
And anyway Urahara's kido was 10 levels above that of Byakuya's, it's painfully obvious that he is better at kido.
on top of that, Urahara is one of the only persons that used kido combo's, when exactly did Byakuya do that?
Face it, Urahara is much better at kido.
Last edited by Kugo Ginjo; March 09, 2011 at 03:42 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
The basic fact is that we have an unarmed person going up against a Bankai. Yoruichi is probably the best CQC fighter with the exception of Yamamoto, but she can't handle Byakuya with her fists - their speed difference simply isn't great enough. Shunko could perhaps keep his Bankai at bay for a while, but conversely SKY would serve as a defense against Shunko. And as someone mentioned earlier, it's related to Kido so it's not like she can keep using it ad infinitum.
If it was Yoruichi vs say... Komamura's Bankai I'd say she might have a shot, but pretty much any other Captain... unlikely. Especially one like Byakuya's which can come at you from multiple directions. I can't see Yoruichi pulling off this one, but it seems as though she has enough supporters to go through anyway
Oh, and I'm pretty sure Urahara is a superior Kido user to Byakuya, Byakuya hasn't used Hado above 73, whereas Urahara has used 90's level. However Byakuya's Kido skills are still enough to lend him an additional advantage in this fight.