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View Poll Results: Who wins?

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  • Yoruichi

    78 61.42%
  • Byakuya

    49 38.58%
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Thread: Shihōin Yoruichi vs Kuchiki Byakuya

  1. #391
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Shihōin Yoruichi vs Kuchiki Byakuya

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackk View Post
    No. Renji doesn't have a sword while in Bankai. And we saw his "bone" Bankai weapon revert to a sealed sword, hence he was back to sealed sword and not Bankai. And either way, nothing changes the fact that freaking Renji who was even half dead could still crush Byakuya's bankai sword with his bare hand. Those swords are not that durable--which is why Shunko should definitely be able to crush them too or at least blast them away.
    Again, you're ignoring that we specifically saw the cape disappear when he was actually left almost for dead, but...whatever you say, buddy.

    Basically, you're saying that even if part of a Bankai is there, the shinigami can be not in Bankai if the entire thing isn't there. You know the cape only appears when he's in Bankai, yet you ignore that because it doesn't fit what you said...ooook

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  3. #392
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Jackk's Avatar
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    Re: Shihōin Yoruichi vs Kuchiki Byakuya

    Yoroichi isn't getting caught by Gokei. But if she does get caught somehow--which I don't think it's very likely seeing how she is much faster--she could still blast through it with shunko. Byakuya in senkei using all his blades at once would be a whole lot more lethal, but he has never done such a thing. In the manga, Byakuya only summoned down two of those senkei swords in his fight against Ichigo, and summoned them one at a time as well. He even told Ichigo that that thousand sword funeral procession will not attack him all at once, and that he has only shown that form to those he has sworn to kill with his own hands.

    http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...4-page-11.html
    http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...4-page-12.html

    Heck the blade that came down to stab Ichigo's foot didn't display any ridiculously good speed either, considering the fact that Ichigo was pretty slow at that point already.... even Byakuya had made note of that. Heck Ichigo was so slow that he even thought that Byakuya had gotten faster while in senkei, yet Byakuya later assured Ichigo that senkei does not affect his speed...and that Ichigo was the one who had gotten slower--which we later found out that it was due to Ichigo's bones cracking from his inexperience with his own Bankai.

    http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...65-page-9.html
    http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...5-page-11.html
    http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...5-page-16.html

    Anyway, Yoruichi is more experienced, faster, and more powerful with her shunko. Byakuya ain't winning this.

    Quote Originally Posted by UchihaHunter View Post
    Again, you're ignoring that we specifically saw the cape disappear when he was actually left almost for dead, but...whatever you say, buddy.

    Basically, you're saying that even if part of a Bankai is there, the shinigami can be not in Bankai if the entire thing isn't there. You know the cape only appears when he's in Bankai, yet you ignore that because it doesn't fit what you said...ooook
    Renji wasn't in Bankai due to his Bankai bone-weapon-thing reverting back to his sealed sword. Arguing that he was in Bankai because he still apparently had a tiny piece of cloth in his shoulder that appeared to be part of Bankai does not mean anything if his sword went back to SEALED stated. It's more likely that the Bankai cloth was just fading away more slowing, but the fact that his Bankai creature (Hihiō Zabimaru) was no where to be seen AND his weapon reverted back to his sealed sword means that he was back to a sealed sword state. And sealed sword state =/= Renji's Bankai.

    Either way, what you're arguing is completely irrelevant. Just as I pointed out in the last part of that post that you conveniently left out:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackk View Post
    Even if it was a half dead Renji in Bankai--which is wasn't--he is still way weaker than Shunko Yoruichi, thus it changes virtually nothing in the point that was being made.


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  5. #393
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    Re: Shihōin Yoruichi vs Kuchiki Byakuya

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackk View Post
    Renji wasn't in Bankai due to his Bankai bone-weapon-thing reverting back to his sealed sword. Arguing that he was in Bankai because he still apparently had a tiny piece of cloth in his shoulder that appeared to be part of Bankai does not mean anything if his sword went back to SEALED stated. It's more likely that the Bankai cloth was just fading away more slowing, but the fact that his Bankai creature (Hihiō Zabimaru) was no where to be seen AND his weapon reverted back to his sealed sword means that he was back to a sealed sword state. And sealed sword state =/= Renji's Bankai.
    Again, you ignore that Bankai is more than just the sword.

    Quote Quote:
    Either way, what you're arguing is completely irrelevant. Just as I pointed out in the last part of that post that you conveniently left out:
    Considering the initial point that I was making had nothing to do with that, there was no point to keeping that part of the post...but feel free to act as if I'm trying to ignore part of your posts

  6. #394
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Jackk's Avatar
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    Re: Shihōin Yoruichi vs Kuchiki Byakuya

    Quote Originally Posted by UchihaHunter View Post
    Again, you ignore that Bankai is more than just the sword.
    Yeah his Bankai had a huge creature too, which was nowhere to be seen now. And the sword is the most important--which we very clearly saw reverting back to sealed state.

    Quote Originally Posted by UchihaHunter View Post
    Considering the initial point that I was making had nothing to do with that, there was no point to keeping that part of the post...but feel free to act as if I'm trying to ignore part of your posts
    You had no point to begin with.

    Yoruichi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any form of Renji. Renji was sealed and half dead and could still crush one of those Bankai swords from Byakuya with his bare hand. And even if you believed that Renji was still in Bankai--which I don't think was the case--he was still freaking half dead... yet he could still crush the sword with his bare hand.

    Yoruichi's Shunko will be able to crush or blast away whatever Byakuya throws at her. Even if Byakuya tries to attack from different directions, Yoruichi is still fast enough to avoid getting caught. And even if by some miracle she gets caught once, I still don't see her going down seeing as freaking Renji still survived and could still get up and charge at Byakuya. IF Yoruchi got caught somehow, she definitely would not be looking anywhere near as bad as Renji seeing as she is much tougher and has significantly higher reiatsu than the likes of Renji. Byakuya's Bankai isn't that powerful, it just has versatility. But Yoruichi has superior speed/shunpo and power to counter with shunko.
    Last edited by Jackk; March 12, 2011 at 05:27 PM.


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  8. #395
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    Re: Shihōin Yoruichi vs Kuchiki Byakuya

    Renji's bankai got destroyed thats why it disappeared. He still used all of his strength to crush ONE SWORD! Byakuya has 1000's that he can attack from any direction at any time. Regardless of how much greater Yoruichi is than Renji, and you can multiply the feat renji accomplished by any amount. It was still one sword of 1000's Byakuya has in Senkei...

    ...She'll get caught by it-

    While Yoruichi is concentrating on Shunko, and 'blasting away' Byakuya's sky- that's not any FORM of his bankai. That's not senkei, or gokei, or hakuteiken. Where in the manga did it show Byakuya's bankai disappear after Ichigo swatted the petals away? In fact, that was just the time Byakuya used Senkei. It increased the attack power and surrounded both of them. If Yoruichi is anywhere within the vicinity of Byakuya, she's getting surrounded by senkei. If that's the case she'll get surrounded by goeki. And if by some miracle she happens to use Shunko to survive or stop the blades from imploding upon her, Bykuaya can shunpo in and kill her with his sword. Just the way he did to Zommari.

    Face it, the only thing people here that back yoruichi have is her speed and shunko, which did two things, ever. Hit Aizen in the face and stop another shunko. Wow.

  9. #396
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Takahashi's Avatar
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    Re: Shihōin Yoruichi vs Kuchiki Byakuya

    Quote Originally Posted by Omiem View Post
    Sorry for the late response. Anyways, Yoruichi's Shunko is much more stronger than Urahara's Anti Hierro Armor after seeing this, compared to this and this. Now, I already agree that Gokei will severely injure Yoruichi if it connects, but what I'm really trying to compare here is the power of Shunko vs Byakuya's generic Bankai petals. Even though Byakuya's petals are meant for cutting, it still uses impact force seeing how it crushed the ground here, and made a crater here. Gokei is much stronger than Byakuya's generic Bankai petals, and its power only severely injured Zommari. You agreed that Yoruichi's Anti Hierro Armor would probably replicate a similar scenario, and Shunko is even more powerful than Anti Hierro Armor. So with these thoughts in mind, I don't see how it would be hard for Yoruichi's Shunko to bust through Byakuya's generic Bankai petals.
    Sure, Shunko+Hierro gauntlets would indeed crush the pumpkin.

    In terms of Shunko alone busting through the generic petals, absolutely. I've already said my main concern has to do with the limits of its use. The problem is two fold here:

    The petals can be blown away, but they can reform, not only is there a million out of the gate, but they're endless as there's no real way to actually destroy them (as far as we know).

    Shunko has to be limited. I won't put a timer on it, as I have no exact proof. But because it must be run on Reiatsu and Yoroichi's usage of it implies short bursts are more effective. Obviously keeping it in constant action is too taxing.

    So we have one attack that just doesn't stop, and one counter for it that WILL work, but is limited. It's infinite versus limited.

    SKY comes from all directions, Yoroichi's best bet is to keep shooting forward and hoping she can dodge the ones coming from behind. Byakuya himself never has to be offensive, he can outlast her. When Shunko's done, so is she. At least that's how I see the majority of the fights happening.

  10. #397
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Shihōin Yoruichi vs Kuchiki Byakuya

    Takahashi, the problem is Yoruichi has the necessary speed to easily outrun and evade SenbonZakura just like Ichigo did.

  11. #398
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Takahashi's Avatar
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    Re: Shihōin Yoruichi vs Kuchiki Byakuya

    Quote Originally Posted by CeroOskuraz View Post
    Ichigo defeated SBK form one. How exactly do you suppose Gokei is different at all?
    Gokei is indeed different. Ichigo swatted away quite a few petals, but far from a million. Gokei collapses all 1 million, because of that, the smaller it gets, the denser it gets. Thus, Ichigo wouldn't be able to bat them away like he did to the one attack that caught him.

    It's also important to note that Yoroichi has no means to bat them away from all directions, she has to bust through, which still leaves a large sum of them chasing her.


    Quote Originally Posted by CeroOskuraz View Post
    Takahashi, the problem is Yoruichi has the necessary speed to easily outrun and evade SenbonZakura just like Ichigo did.
    Again again again, Ichigo didn't avoid SKY. Seconds after Byakuya used SKY to its full speed, Ichigo was caught.
    Last edited by Takahashi; March 12, 2011 at 10:32 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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  13. #399
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    Re: Shihōin Yoruichi vs Kuchiki Byakuya

    Ichigo couldn't evade SKY- it caught him and he 'swatted' away the petal blades. Then- Byakuya caught him in Senkei. Why would Yoruichi be any different? And even if she used Shunko to dissipate the blades, Byakuya would then move to his forms of Bankai, not just random SKY petal blades trying to cut. In Senkei he said the defense is forgone and it concentrates on offense. In that fight against Ichigo he took a GT, yet still had the guile to go again and use Hakuteiken afterwards. Byakuya in that sense should be considered somewhat of a tank. Another thing is when he cut his tendons in the zommari fight and didn't blink, flinch, moan, bitch; he got on with the job at hand and embarrassed zommari.

  14. #400
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Omiem's Avatar
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    Re: Shihōin Yoruichi vs Kuchiki Byakuya

    Quote Originally Posted by Takahashi View Post
    Sure, Shunko+Hierro gauntlets would indeed crush the pumpkin.

    In terms of Shunko alone busting through the generic petals, absolutely. I've already said my main concern has to do with the limits of its use. The problem is two fold here:

    The petals can be blown away, but they can reform, not only is there a million out of the gate, but they're endless as there's no real way to actually destroy them (as far as we know).

    Shunko has to be limited. I won't put a timer on it, as I have no exact proof. But because it must be run on Reiatsu and Yoroichi's usage of it implies short bursts are more effective. Obviously keeping it in constant action is too taxing.

    So we have one attack that just doesn't stop, and one counter for it that WILL work, but is limited. It's infinite versus limited.

    SKY comes from all directions, Yoroichi's best bet is to keep shooting forward and hoping she can dodge the ones coming from behind. Byakuya himself never has to be offensive, he can outlast her. When Shunko's done, so is she. At least that's how I see the majority of the fights happening.
    Huh? I thought you were implying that the power of Shunko would have a hard time busting through those petals seeing the quote under this spoiler.
    Spoiler show

    That's kinda what I was arguing against, but if you agree that the power of Shunko is enough to bust through those petals, then there's really nothing for me to justify here. The rest of your post deals with opinions that we can't really quantify here at the moment.

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  16. #401
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Takahashi's Avatar
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    Re: Shihōin Yoruichi vs Kuchiki Byakuya

    Quote Originally Posted by Omiem View Post
    Huh? I thought you were implying that the power of Shunko would have a hard time busting through those petals seeing the quote under this spoiler.

    That's kinda what I was arguing against, but if you agree that the power of Shunko is enough to bust through those petals, then there's really nothing for me to justify here. The rest of your post deals with opinions that we can't really quantify here at the moment.
    True, I did say that. That was also in response to you finding it impressive that Aizen was thrown back, I was trying to say that that alone isn't a good reasoning when even a guy like Po can send a captain flying with a punch as well. It isn't proof of her shooting through SKY with ease.

    I've also said many times before that the lack of comparability and limitations of use are my main issues with it. I found her cracking through Aizen's arm as much better evidence for power that the actual knocking back of Aizen.

    I can budge on the idea of Yoroichi's Shunko being able to take on the generic petals. You've made enough of a case for it for me to get what you're saying, and fair enough. That being said, my vote for Byakuya has always been based on much more than just that.

  17. #402
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Omiem's Avatar
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    Re: Shihōin Yoruichi vs Kuchiki Byakuya

    Well again, I can't really see how you can confidently make the argument that Yoruichi will lose her Shunko like how Mashiro lost her mask when such a thing has never occurred in the manga. I agree that it's still possible, but the consistency of that argument is questionable from where I see.
    Last edited by Omiem; March 12, 2011 at 09:14 PM.

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  19. #403
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Takahashi's Avatar
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    Re: Shihōin Yoruichi vs Kuchiki Byakuya

    Quote Originally Posted by Omiem View Post
    Well again, I can't really see how you can confidently make the argument that Yoruichi will lose her Shunko like how Mashiro lost her mask when such a thing has never occurred in the manga. I agree that it's still possible, but the consistency of that argument is questionable from where I see.
    There's a difference, Mashiro's a dumbass. Because I think Yoroichi is smart enough, I'm basing her minimal usage of Shunko as a way of ensuring she can use it when she needs it without expending too much energy. I'm not suggesting she's going to max it out off the bat and lose. But since we can agree that Shunko is a necessity for her to win, that means she will HAVE to use it at some key points, and you can at least agree that there is a limit, so you can see what I'm saying here right?

    And yes, the consistency of my argument IS questionable. But you know what else is? Pretty much everything else that's been said about Shunko. For power, there's a single hit. For usage, there's only 2 very short times. There's very little we can say with confidence in regards to Shunko in the first place.

    If you think Shunko is incredibly powerful, then it makes sense that it doesn't last as long as weaker techs. Considering Byakuya's versatility, I don't think it's a real stretch to assume that he can outlast her, when he can safely attack her, and she has to focus on dodging and using up energy.

  20. #404
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Omiem's Avatar
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    Re: Shihōin Yoruichi vs Kuchiki Byakuya

    Quote Originally Posted by Takahashi View Post
    There's a difference, Mashiro's a dumbass. Because I think Yoroichi is smart enough, I'm basing her minimal usage of Shunko as a way of ensuring she can use it when she needs it without expending too much energy. I'm not suggesting she's going to max it out off the bat and lose. But since we can agree that Shunko is a necessity for her to win, that means she will HAVE to use it at some key points, and you can at least agree that there is a limit, so you can see what I'm saying here right?
    Yes, I already agreed with all of this.
    Quote Quote:
    And yes, the consistency of my argument IS questionable. But you know what else is? Pretty much everything else that's been said about Shunko. For power, there's a single hit. For usage, there's only 2 very short times. There's very little we can say with confidence in regards to Shunko in the first place.
    What I'm basically saying is that the burden of proof is more heavily on you here. Again, there's never been a point where Yoruichi lost her Shunko in battle. So from where I see, the chances of Yoruichi losing her Shunko are slim, since such a moment has never occurred. As long as this is the case, then there's no reason to believe that Yoruichi will most likely lose her Shunko against Byakuya here. You could say the same for me, but again, burden of proof is more heavily on you here. If you disagree, then we'll just leave it at that. Anyways, as for power, didn't you agree that Shunko is strong enough to blast away those petals? Or are you implying about something else here?
    Quote Quote:
    If you think Shunko is incredibly powerful, then it makes sense that it doesn't last as long as weaker techs.
    Um, not really. Especially with Yoruichi's case, since she hasn't displayed any weaker techniques that can be compared with her Shunko.

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  22. #405
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    Re: Shihōin Yoruichi vs Kuchiki Byakuya

    Yoruichi speeds to victory! She shall advance on into the Quarter-finals. Discuss the result of this match and all others in the Tournament Discussion thread.

    Stay tuned for more details!

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