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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
Basically, you're saying that even if part of a Bankai is there, the shinigami can be not in Bankai if the entire thing isn't there. You know the cape only appears when he's in Bankai, yet you ignore that because it doesn't fit what you said...ooook
Yoroichi isn't getting caught by Gokei. But if she does get caught somehow--which I don't think it's very likely seeing how she is much faster--she could still blast through it with shunko. Byakuya in senkei using all his blades at once would be a whole lot more lethal, but he has never done such a thing. In the manga, Byakuya only summoned down two of those senkei swords in his fight against Ichigo, and summoned them one at a time as well. He even told Ichigo that that thousand sword funeral procession will not attack him all at once, and that he has only shown that form to those he has sworn to kill with his own hands.
Heck the blade that came down to stab Ichigo's foot didn't display any ridiculously good speed either, considering the fact that Ichigo was pretty slow at that point already.... even Byakuya had made note of that. Heck Ichigo was so slow that he even thought that Byakuya had gotten faster while in senkei, yet Byakuya later assured Ichigo that senkei does not affect his speed...and that Ichigo was the one who had gotten slower--which we later found out that it was due to Ichigo's bones cracking from his inexperience with his own Bankai.
Anyway, Yoruichi is more experienced, faster, and more powerful with her shunko. Byakuya ain't winning this.
Either way, what you're arguing is completely irrelevant. Just as I pointed out in the last part of that post that you conveniently left out:
Yoruichi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any form of Renji. Renji was sealed and half dead and could still crush one of those Bankai swords from Byakuya with his bare hand. And even if you believed that Renji was still in Bankai--which I don't think was the case--he was still freaking half dead... yet he could still crush the sword with his bare hand.
Yoruichi's Shunko will be able to crush or blast away whatever Byakuya throws at her. Even if Byakuya tries to attack from different directions, Yoruichi is still fast enough to avoid getting caught. And even if by some miracle she gets caught once, I still don't see her going down seeing as freaking Renji still survived and could still get up and charge at Byakuya. IF Yoruchi got caught somehow, she definitely would not be looking anywhere near as bad as Renji seeing as she is much tougher and has significantly higher reiatsu than the likes of Renji. Byakuya's Bankai isn't that powerful, it just has versatility. But Yoruichi has superior speed/shunpo and power to counter with shunko.
Last edited by Jackk; March 12, 2011 at 05:27 PM.
Renji's bankai got destroyed thats why it disappeared. He still used all of his strength to crush ONE SWORD! Byakuya has 1000's that he can attack from any direction at any time. Regardless of how much greater Yoruichi is than Renji, and you can multiply the feat renji accomplished by any amount. It was still one sword of 1000's Byakuya has in Senkei...
...She'll get caught by it-
While Yoruichi is concentrating on Shunko, and 'blasting away' Byakuya's sky- that's not any FORM of his bankai. That's not senkei, or gokei, or hakuteiken. Where in the manga did it show Byakuya's bankai disappear after Ichigo swatted the petals away? In fact, that was just the time Byakuya used Senkei. It increased the attack power and surrounded both of them. If Yoruichi is anywhere within the vicinity of Byakuya, she's getting surrounded by senkei. If that's the case she'll get surrounded by goeki. And if by some miracle she happens to use Shunko to survive or stop the blades from imploding upon her, Bykuaya can shunpo in and kill her with his sword. Just the way he did to Zommari.
Face it, the only thing people here that back yoruichi have is her speed and shunko, which did two things, ever. Hit Aizen in the face and stop another shunko. Wow.
In terms of Shunko alone busting through the generic petals, absolutely. I've already said my main concern has to do with the limits of its use. The problem is two fold here:
The petals can be blown away, but they can reform, not only is there a million out of the gate, but they're endless as there's no real way to actually destroy them (as far as we know).
Shunko has to be limited. I won't put a timer on it, as I have no exact proof. But because it must be run on Reiatsu and Yoroichi's usage of it implies short bursts are more effective. Obviously keeping it in constant action is too taxing.
So we have one attack that just doesn't stop, and one counter for it that WILL work, but is limited. It's infinite versus limited.
SKY comes from all directions, Yoroichi's best bet is to keep shooting forward and hoping she can dodge the ones coming from behind. Byakuya himself never has to be offensive, he can outlast her. When Shunko's done, so is she. At least that's how I see the majority of the fights happening.
Takahashi, the problem is Yoruichi has the necessary speed to easily outrun and evade SenbonZakura just like Ichigo did.
It's also important to note that Yoroichi has no means to bat them away from all directions, she has to bust through, which still leaves a large sum of them chasing her.
Last edited by Takahashi; March 12, 2011 at 10:32 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Ichigo couldn't evade SKY- it caught him and he 'swatted' away the petal blades. Then- Byakuya caught him in Senkei. Why would Yoruichi be any different? And even if she used Shunko to dissipate the blades, Byakuya would then move to his forms of Bankai, not just random SKY petal blades trying to cut. In Senkei he said the defense is forgone and it concentrates on offense. In that fight against Ichigo he took a GT, yet still had the guile to go again and use Hakuteiken afterwards. Byakuya in that sense should be considered somewhat of a tank. Another thing is when he cut his tendons in the zommari fight and didn't blink, flinch, moan, bitch; he got on with the job at hand and embarrassed zommari.
That's kinda what I was arguing against, but if you agree that the power of Shunko is enough to bust through those petals, then there's really nothing for me to justify here. The rest of your post deals with opinions that we can't really quantify here at the moment.
I've also said many times before that the lack of comparability and limitations of use are my main issues with it. I found her cracking through Aizen's arm as much better evidence for power that the actual knocking back of Aizen.
I can budge on the idea of Yoroichi's Shunko being able to take on the generic petals. You've made enough of a case for it for me to get what you're saying, and fair enough. That being said, my vote for Byakuya has always been based on much more than just that.
Well again, I can't really see how you can confidently make the argument that Yoruichi will lose her Shunko like how Mashiro lost her mask when such a thing has never occurred in the manga. I agree that it's still possible, but the consistency of that argument is questionable from where I see.
Last edited by Omiem; March 12, 2011 at 09:14 PM.
And yes, the consistency of my argument IS questionable. But you know what else is? Pretty much everything else that's been said about Shunko. For power, there's a single hit. For usage, there's only 2 very short times. There's very little we can say with confidence in regards to Shunko in the first place.
If you think Shunko is incredibly powerful, then it makes sense that it doesn't last as long as weaker techs. Considering Byakuya's versatility, I don't think it's a real stretch to assume that he can outlast her, when he can safely attack her, and she has to focus on dodging and using up energy.
What I'm basically saying is that the burden of proof is more heavily on you here. Again, there's never been a point where Yoruichi lost her Shunko in battle. So from where I see, the chances of Yoruichi losing her Shunko are slim, since such a moment has never occurred. As long as this is the case, then there's no reason to believe that Yoruichi will most likely lose her Shunko against Byakuya here. You could say the same for me, but again, burden of proof is more heavily on you here. If you disagree, then we'll just leave it at that. Anyways, as for power, didn't you agree that Shunko is strong enough to blast away those petals? Or are you implying about something else here?Quote:
Um, not really. Especially with Yoruichi's case, since she hasn't displayed any weaker techniques that can be compared with her Shunko.Quote:
Yoruichi speeds to victory! She shall advance on into the Quarter-finals. Discuss the result of this match and all others in the Tournament Discussion thread.
Stay tuned for more details!