Shin Prince of Tennis 48 and 49 Discussion/Predictions

[FujiNumberOne]

I'd have to disagree. I think Akutsu does have a lot of potential, but I don't think he's as highlighted as Fuji is in skill. Fuji's always been referred to as a genius, and he was able to come back from 5-0, 0-40 down against Shiraishi to almost beat him (and Shiraishi's one of the strongest characters in the series, even before he took off the forearm weight). And the only reason he lost was because he hadn't created Hashi Hanabi yet.

I think, by the end of the series, Fuji will probably be in the top five strongest in the series. But that's just my opinion (and I admit I'm rather biased :P)

[Kaoz]

I'd have to disagree. I think Akutsu does have a lot of potential, but I don't think he's as highlighted as Fuji is in skill. Fuji's always been referred to as a genius, and he was able to come back from 5-0, 0-40 down against Shiraishi to almost beat him (and Shiraishi's one of the strongest characters in the series, even before he took off the forearm weight). And the only reason he lost was because he hadn't created Hashi Hanabi yet.

Of course Akutsu didn't get as many mentions, seeing as he only played one match to Fuji's 6(?), only counting the shown ones. Nevertheless, IIRC he was described as a genius and seeing as he could give Echizen a hard time (pre-Muga!Echizen but still) without any training, it's not unlikely that he got a massive boost in the meantime (e.g. he's one of four characters that can hit 5 shots at the same time).

As for Fuji vs Shiraishi, Fuji was weaker when they played in the nationals, surpassed Shiraishi after playing Niou, but would most likely lose against Shiraishi without the gauntlet. Granted, he might get another power-up, but for now he's weaker than Shiraishi.

I would say Akutsu and Tachibana have better shots than him. Akutsu has been set up as one of the characters who will be highlighted in this series, not to mention he's finally living up to his potential. Akutsu basically has a higher potential than any other character in the whole series, so I think he'll definitely be more relevant than Fuji. Tachibana is also a lot stronger than Fuji is, so he has a better shot in my mind.

Tachibana > Fuji? Tier List discussion go?

[FujiNumberOne]

I do agree that he's weaker than Shiraishi. At least for now from what we've seen. But I was just giving that as an example of why I think Fuji is stronger than Tachibana and Akutsu. I don't think either of them could give Shiraishi a run for his money. ESPECIALLY without the gauntlet.

[KuwabaraTheMan]

I'd have to disagree. I think Akutsu does have a lot of potential, but I don't think he's as highlighted as Fuji is in skill. Fuji's always been referred to as a genius, and he was able to come back from 5-0, 0-40 down against Shiraishi to almost beat him (and Shiraishi's one of the strongest characters in the series, even before he took off the forearm weight). And the only reason he lost was because he hadn't created Hashi Hanabi yet.

I meant in the current series. Akutsu has gotten a lot of focus and hype (international training, being singled out as special by Oni, able to hit 5 balls at once), while Fuji has basically done nothing in the current series. It seems to me like Akutsu is being set up to play a much greater role.

Fuji might be a genius, but Akutsu is a greater genius. It's pretty much established in the series that Akutsu is the most talented character, he just never trained.

Tachibana > Fuji? Tier List discussion go?

Well, I see Tachibana and Chitose being around the same level of skills as Shiraishi, and definitely ahead of Fuji. I think Fuji is a good step behind those guys in terms of overall skill.

Also, I'm not sure how Fuji could even return Abare Dama.

[Kaoz]

I meant in the current series. Akutsu has gotten a lot of focus and hype (international training, being singled out as special by Oni, able to hit 5 balls at once), while Fuji has basically done nothing in the current series. It seems to me like Akutsu is being set up to play a much greater role.

Fuji might be a genius, but Akutsu is a greater genius. It's pretty much established in the series that Akutsu is the most talented character, he just never trained.

I'd put them on about the same level, just in different ways. It's true that Akutsu never trained, but on the other hand, unlike Fuji he wasn't able to evolve a lot in the middle of a match.

Well, I see Tachibana and Chitose being around the same level of skills as Shiraishi, and definitely ahead of Fuji. I think Fuji is a good step behind those guys in terms of overall skill.

Also, I'm not sure how Fuji could even return Abare Dama.

You got a point with Abare Dama, on the other hand, how would Tachibana return Hecatoncheires without triggering Hoshi Hanabi?

As for Chitose, I can't really see him above Fuji. Sure, he has Saiki but I'm still convinced that CE can beat that, and Fuji's other options are simply superior from what we've seen so far.

[FujiNumberOne]

I'd say that Tachibana is definitely below Chitose and Shiraishi. And I'd say Fuji is even with Chitose (or even a little better) anyways. As chaosmaster said, Fuji might, MIGHT, not be able to Abare Dama, but Tachibana wouldn't be able to return Hecatoncheires or Hoo Gaeshi either (at least without getting Hoshi Hanabi used on him).

[Fuji Shusuke]

Closed Eyes beats all!!! Kidding but Fuji COULD determine the location of the ball but probably not return it. If he had to return it, he would probably use Fourth Counter. Who knows, Seventh Counter? I can imagine the court exploding if he uses it

[FujiNumberOne]

The above poster does raise a good point. The trick to Abare Dama is the illusion of multiple balls. But is Fuji uses his Closed Eyes 'technique' that he used against Niou, he wouldn't see the illusion, but would still be able to know where the ball was and return it like he did against Niou.

[Kaoz]

Consider though that Tachibana can probably overpower Fuji to an extent, especially with Moujuu. Even without Abare Dama, Tachibana could probably keep up with Fuji.

[FrostyMouse]

I don't know. I always saw it as Chitose was better than Tachibana (he was up 5-4 and serving for the match before he activated Saiki), but Chitose's best skill is Saiki, and Fuji already proved that CE can counter Saiki. I can't see Chitose being able to counter both Hecatoncheires and Hoshi Hanabi.

Considering that we saw Chitose and Tachibana in a doubles match in the court shuffle, I definitely believe that we'll see them move on.

Fuji's above them for the moment, at least in my opinion.

[Kaoz]

I don't know. I always saw it as Chitose was better than Tachibana (he was up 5-4 and serving for the match before he activated Saiki), but Chitose's best skill is Saiki, and Fuji already proved that CE can counter Saiki. I can't see Chitose being able to counter both Hecatoncheires and Hoshi Hanabi.

It might be possible when you consider that Kamikakushi has an insane amount of topspin. Not all that likely in my opinion, but I wouldn't rule it out completly.

[FujiNumberOne]

But you need an insane slice, not top spin, to counter Hecatoncheires. Though I still think Chitose might be above Fuji, if only slightly.

And I don't think Tachibana would be able to power through Fuji with any of his techniques. Fuji's just too strong of a counter puncher. I do believe he'd be able to keep up for a little while, but once Fuji gets serious, it's over for Tachibana (in my opinion).

[Kaoz]

But you need an insane slice, not top spin, to counter Hecatoncheires. Though I still think Chitose might be above Fuji, if only slightly.

No, Hecatoncheires is a super slice itself, so you need a strong topspin to return it.[/QUOTE]

And I don't think Tachibana would be able to power through Fuji with any of his techniques. Fuji's just too strong of a counter puncher. I do believe he'd be able to keep up for a little while, but once Fuji gets serious, it's over for Tachibana (in my opinion).

I dunno, but didn't Tachibana blow Fuji's racket away even without Moujuu? (too lazy to check atm)

[FujiNumberOne]

No, an insane slice is needed. How Hecatoncheires works is that it is an extremely fierce slice, so that it goes to the other side with a lot of backspin. Then, when it changes directions, the spin remains the same, but the opposite direction makes it now a top spin. Because of the amount of top spin on the ball when the opponent returns it, the ball sinks very quickly/early, causing it to go into the net.

It's the same concept as Tsubame/Hoo Gaeshi. When the opponent hits a top spin shot, it makes it automatically a backspin shot from Fuji (unless he puts enough counter spin on it), so he slices it, adding even MORE backspin to it, which makes it where the ball doesn't bounce.

And I don't quite remember that happening, but I haven't read through the manga in a while. I'm actually re-reading it at the moment, but I'm not even done with the Prefectural Tournament yet.

[Kaoz]

So, I talked to Sai about the issue:

chaosmaster1991 (17:04:50): I am kinda confused and have a question:
To cancel out the spin on Hecatoncheires, do you need a super topspin or a super slice?
Sai the Shaman (17:05:55): top spin i believe
chaosmaster1991 (17:06:25): reason why I'm asking:
http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...30#post2388030
Sai the Shaman (17:10:06): I'm drawing a diagram
chaosmaster1991 (17:10:09): lol
Sai the Shaman (17:14:32): http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y15...n/Untitled.png
Sai the Shaman (17:15:10): so basically when the ball if coming at you with the double slice spinits already rotating in the direction of your topspin
Sai the Shaman (17:15:30): it would be smartest to use that to your advantage and top spin in back
chaosmaster1991 (17:16:08): that's what I originally thought, coupled with the upwards movement, it should be the best option
Sai the Shaman (17:16:44): for fuji's it's a super backspin in particular
Sai the Shaman (17:16:50): not so much underspin
Sai the Shaman (17:16:58): or else the ball would bounce backwards
chaosmaster1991 (17:17:23): yeah.. you feel like posting that on MH? you can explain it better than me...
Sai the Shaman (17:17:29): lol
Sai the Shaman (17:20:20): though I do see that guy's point
Sai the Shaman (17:20:37): if you were to super slice it back you'd negate all the spin on the ball
Sai the Shaman (17:20:50): rather than adding more spin
chaosmaster1991 (17:22:32): hmm so who is right? or would both be possible? I can't remember Shiraishi's stance when he hit...
Sai the Shaman (17:23:11): well both could be right depending on the player
Sai the Shaman (17:23:28): Gin could probably return it np with hadoukyuu also
Sai the Shaman (17:23:48): since if you simply over power it with a flat, it'll naturally negate the spin
chaosmaster1991 (17:23:54): yeah
Sai the Shaman (17:24:18): but the problem with the top spin return is the point the other guy was making
Sai the Shaman (17:24:36): the top spin drops too quickly when there's that much spin
Sai the Shaman (17:25:08): but, if you were to hit the ball with enough of a power top spin it would negate it
Sai the Shaman (17:25:35): or you could do a super top spin lob and essentially return it with a variation of the 6th counter
Sai the Shaman (17:26:46): in normal circumstances, a top spin counters a slice since the slice makes it easier to hit the top spin. this one it depends on who's hitting it
chaosmaster1991 (17:27:21): http://read.mangashare.com/Prince-of...1/page002.html
the way he holds the racket, it looks like a topspin to me >_>;;
chaosmaster1991 (17:27:31): but thanks anyway
Sai the Shaman (17:28:04): its a power topspin
Sai the Shaman (17:28:15): he's pushing the ball and adding just a bit of top to it
Sai the Shaman (17:28:27): thats what causes the cord ball actually....
Sai the Shaman (17:28:42): pushed it to the net and the slight top gets it to roll over
chaosmaster1991 (17:28:56): I see, thanks
chaosmaster1991 (17:29:09): now... do you wanna post it? please?
Sai the Shaman (17:30:01): lol if you want, you can just copy and paste this convo >.>;;

Basically, according to Sai both the topspin and slice approach are possible, though when hit with a topspin, more power is needed.