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View Poll Results: Who wins?

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  • Team Ice, Ice Baby

    48 57.83%
  • Team Ladies Knight

    35 42.17%
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Thread: Team Ice, Ice Baby vs Team Ladies Knight

  1. #31
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Raizen's Avatar
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    Re: Team Ice, Ice Baby vs Team Ladies Knight

    ^ Lisa has not shown anything that makes me think she can pwn rukia. In the long run she may be stronger, but rukia can stall her and she's quite skilled in kido

  2. #32
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Jackk's Avatar
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    Re: Team Ice, Ice Baby vs Team Ladies Knight

    Ladies night!!!!!

    Rukia is actually one of my favorite characters, but she's definitely getting the fodder treatment here. Therefore, this is basically more of a 2 on 1 battle. And I don't think that Hitsugaya can take on two skilled captain level fighters simultaneously and win. Yes, both Nel and Lisa are captain level of some sort. I also think that both Nel and Lisa are faster than Hitsugaya and they seem like better CQC fighters. Granted Hitsu's long range techs could be troublesome, but if both Nel and Lisa quickly close the distance and pressure him, I see the two of them taking out Hitsugaya and winning this match.


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  4. #33
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    Re: Team Ice, Ice Baby vs Team Ladies Knight

    ...yea, quickly close the distance...like how Harribel did...but surely the former #3 Espada and a VC Vizard can do so...

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  6. #34
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Jackk's Avatar
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    Re: Team Ice, Ice Baby vs Team Ladies Knight

    Indeed, it's 2 captain level opponents against one this time... the odds are not looking good for Hitsu, to say least.


  7. #35
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    Re: Team Ice, Ice Baby vs Team Ladies Knight

    Yep, two captain-level opponents...one that didn't add anything to a battle that was already stalemated, and one that despite the boost of a resurrecion, couldn't take out a sealed Espada...two really tough opponents for someone that effectively won against the #3 Espada...

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  9. #36
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Jackk's Avatar
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    Re: Team Ice, Ice Baby vs Team Ladies Knight

    -Yeah, Lisa didn't add anything except actually holding her own against released Harribel in CQC for some time while Hiyori and Hitsu were arguing. And it's unfortunate that Aizen had to interrupt the fight soon after Lisa went shikai + Mask, but I suppose even Aizen could tell that Harribel was about to go down anyway.

    -Nnoitra would have been annihilated by Nel had she not been rusty and had she not reverted back to her child form.

    -Harribel was outclassing hitsu in CQC; Hitsu then resorted to placing distance between them and tried the long range approach while Harribel didn't actually try to push the fight back to CQC... since she also possessed long range techs--which she probably considered superior to Hitsu's. Luckily for Hitsugaya, he actually had a good ice zanpakutou that could counter Harribel's water nicely. Harribel also underestimated Hitsu's HH as she tried to block it instead of trying to sonido out of the way. Not to mention that they were in a 1 on 1 battle, while this particular tournament match will pretty much be a 2 on 1 battle. I don't think that Hitsugaya can take on two skilled captain level fighters simultaneously and win.


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  11. #37
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Team Ice, Ice Baby vs Team Ladies Knight

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackk View Post
    -Yeah, Lisa didn't add anything except actually holding her own against released Harribel in CQC for some time while Hiyori and Hitsu were arguing. And it's unfortunate that Aizen had to interrupt the fight soon after Lisa went shikai + Mask, but I suppose even Aizen could tell that Harribel was about to go down anyway.
    How long do you think that that argument even was? How much do you think HH took out of Harribel? It was fairly obvious that she wasn't fighting at 100% at that point. Did we see a La Gota? A Cascada? Even a generic Cero? She clanged weapons for a little bit, then was cut down by Aizen. Let's not act like Lisa did anything special here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackk
    -Nnoitra would have been annihilated by Nel had she not been rusty and had she not reverted back to her child form.
    100% speculation, considering that we don't know how much stronger Nnoitra had gotten in the time she was gone. In addition, she didn't really harm him, and, you know, Resurrecions completely heal Arrancar anyway. Nnoitra released is a lot different from Nnoitra sealed...Kenpachi found that out (even though it didn't really matter, ho ho ho)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackk
    -Harribel was outclassing hitsu in CQC; Hitsu then resorted to placing distance between them and tried the long range approach while Harribel didn't actually try to push the fight back to CQC... since she also possessed long range techs--which she probably considered superior to Hitsu's. Luckily for Hitsugaya, he actually had a good ice zanpakutou that could counter Harribel's water nicely. Harribel also underestimated Hitsu's HH as she tried to block it instead of trying to sonido out of the way.
    Harribel definitely tried to coax Hitsugaya into CQC. It was obvious she preferred CQC to long-range combat. Maybe she initially thought her Cascada was better than Hitsu's moves, but she quickly saw how easily he blocked that. Not to mention that if Hitsugaya hadn't been worried about the others, he could've used HH on her before she realized how powerful he was anyway...I doubt that Harribel could win that fight. She never closed the gap, even with her superior speed and with Sonido. She was completely outclassed as a fighter, IMO

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackk
    Not to mention that they were in a 1 on 1 battle, while this particular tournament match will pretty much be a 2 on 1 battle. I don't think that Hitsugaya can take on two skilled captain level fighters simultaneously and win.
    Considering what we've seen of Lisa, I don't know why we're assuming that she's going to do much to a Hitsugaya that is smart enough to avoid CQC if necessary. Nel has no Ceros to absorb in this battle, and Hitsugaya has tanked pretty damn powerful moves...I doubt that that lance attack is going to demolish his defenses. And Lisa...has a lance. Yea, I don't think either one of them is going to be closing the distance or slaying Hitsugaya.

    Nel overexerts her power and turns into a baby...again...or she gets locked in ice and...turns into a baby...or whatever, either way, we haven't seen her sustain her form long enough to know what she's really capable of anyway.

    Lisa...has a lance. We've seen literally nothing from her but melee, so I don't see how she's going to deal with Hitsugaya's ice techs.

  12. #38
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Jackk's Avatar
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    Re: Team Ice, Ice Baby vs Team Ladies Knight

    -Harribel was looking great after she got out of the ice; it even took two strikes from Aizen to take her down. Lisa held her own for some time in CQC against Harribel while Hiyori and Hitsu argued.

    -A rusty sealed Nel was speed blitzing sealed Nnoitra. Released Nel would have annihilated him had she not been rusty and had she not reverted back to her child form. The mods said that we can use Nel in her prime (ie: none rusty Nel) and that Nel will not have the problem of reverting back to child form in this tournament.

    -Harribel was outclassing Hitsugaya in CQC, thus Hitsu resorted to placing distance between them and tried the long range approach while Harribel didn't actually try to push the fight back to CQC... since she also possessed long range techs--which she probably considered superior to Hitsu's. Hitsugaya was lucky enough to have a good ice zanpakutou that could counter Harribel's water though. And Harribel also underestimated Hitsugaya's HH as she tried to block it instead of trying to sonido out of the way. IMO Lisa and Nel are faster than Hitsugaya and they seem like better CQC fighters, thus they will definitely pressure Hitsu into a CQC fight. I still don't think that Hitsugaya can take on two captain level fighters simultaneously and win.
    Last edited by Jackk; March 09, 2011 at 09:43 PM.


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  14. #39
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member El Samurai Guapo's Avatar
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    Re: Team Ice, Ice Baby vs Team Ladies Knight

    Quote Originally Posted by UchihaHunter View Post
    Nel overexerts her power and turns into a baby...again...or she gets locked in ice and...turns into a baby...or whatever, either way, we haven't seen her sustain her form long enough to know what she's really capable of anyway.
    According to the rules we don't have to worry about her reverting to child form.

    Quote Quote:
    Lisa...has a lance. We've seen literally nothing from her but melee, so I don't see how she's going to deal with Hitsugaya's ice techs.
    By avoiding them? Spinning Haguro Tonbo to deflect them? Breaking through the ice with the mask?

    While Hollofied she should be quick enough to shunpo/sonido in front of Toushirou before he can even react. Lisa definitely wasn't a slow character to begin with (as a pure shinigami), we've already seen her keep up with captains before. With mask on (which is a tremendous boost in speed) she should be quicker than all but the faster captains like Byakuya, Soi Fon, Shunsui. Neliel herself is no slouch, even while rusty she's quick enough to not let Nnoitora touch her. The most important is that this is 2 on 1; Toushirou's ranged attacks definitely can't keep both of them at bay, and if one gets trapped in ice the other can help bust her out.

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  16. #40
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    Re: Team Ice, Ice Baby vs Team Ladies Knight

    To state this again: Ice Damage and Blunt trauma damage are extremely hard to tell in manga. We're literally clueless on how badly they're affected unless they outright tell us, which to my knowledge only happened once when Yumichika had his arm broken in three places.

    Saying Harribel looks fine is an entirely different thing from her being fine. It's hard to tell what happened, but suffice to say if Hitsugaya was comfortable enough to go up against someone who could melt his bankai Ice with only his shikai, and she couldn't do jack, then clearly something was up.

  17. #41
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Takahashi's Avatar
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    Re: Team Ice, Ice Baby vs Team Ladies Knight

    Quote Originally Posted by El Samurai Guapo View Post
    While Hollofied she should be quick enough to shunpo/sonido in front of Toushirou before he can even react.
    I'm really getting sick of hearing about all of these speedblitz scenarios with no merit. Hitsugaya, who dodged Shinso an inch away from his eyeball, is going to be speedblized by a VC with a mask?

  18. #42
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Raizen's Avatar
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    Re: Team Ice, Ice Baby vs Team Ladies Knight

    http://www.mangareader.net/94-813-12...apter-359.html
    This page shows that she was using her SP to save herself from the attack. So it is clear she used up a lot of energy until WW showed up
    ______________
    And no.... lisa is not going to blitz anyone, especially hitsu.

  19. #43
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Jackk's Avatar
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    Re: Team Ice, Ice Baby vs Team Ladies Knight

    Quote Originally Posted by Random101 View Post
    Saying Harribel looks fine is an entirely different thing from her being fine. It's hard to tell what happened,but suffice to say if Hitsugaya was comfortable enough to go up against someone who could melt his bankai Ice with only his shikai, and she couldn't do jack, then clearly something was up.
    -Not only was Harribel looking fine after she got out of the ice, but she also tanked an attack from freaking Aizen. That's her being fine after coming out of the ice in my book.

    -Hitsu was comfortable enough to go face Harribel again with only his shikai because he had two other captain level fighters fighting alongside him now. Also, there's the possibility of Hitsu still not being able to go back into Bankai at that precise moment. Granted he went back into Bankai later against Aizen, but perhaps he had some cool-down time. Who knows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Takahashi View Post
    I'm really getting sick of hearing about all of these speedblitz scenarios with no merit. Hitsugaya, who dodged Shinso an inch away from his eyeball, is going to be speedblized by a VC with a mask?
    I'm really getting sick of hearing about Lisa still being only a VC even though she was clearly a top tier VC 100+ years ago, went through hollowfication--which expanded her limits and increased her reiatsu before even taking the Mask into account, trained for 100 years, and explicitly told Shunsui--in FKT-- that she had gotten much stronger. I also really don't see how a mere VC could hold her own for even a short time against the released 3rd Espada in CQC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raizen View Post
    http://www.mangareader.net/94-813-12...apter-359.html
    This page shows that she was using her SP to save herself from the attack. So it is clear she used up a lot of energy until WW showed up
    No. That page really only shows that Harribel was immobilized and encased by the ice. I don't think that she was continuously exerting her reiatsu while she was immobile inside the ice.
    Last edited by Jackk; March 09, 2011 at 10:27 PM.


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  21. #44
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Raizen's Avatar
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    Re: Team Ice, Ice Baby vs Team Ladies Knight

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackk View Post
    No. That page really only shows that Harribel was immobilized and encased by the ice. I don't think that she was continuously exerting her reiatsu while she was immobile inside the ice.
    Ice would look similar to the ice petals... but it doesn't.

  22. #45
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Takahashi's Avatar
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    Re: Team Ice, Ice Baby vs Team Ladies Knight

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackk View Post
    I'm really getting sick of hearing about Lisa still being only a VC even though she was clearly a top tier VC 100+ years ago, went through hollowfication--which expanded her limits and increased her reiatsu before even taking the Mask into account, trained for 100 years, and explicitly told Shunsui--in FKT-- that she had gotten much stronger. I also really don't see how a mere VC could hold her own for even a short time against the released 3rd Espada in CQC.
    You always use the "100 years of time" to defend the Vaizards. It means nothing if their potential isn't high enough. Byakuya for example, is the strongest head of the Kuchiki's, his Grandpa was much older than most Shinigami, yet Byakuya is stronger. You should base it off of more than just ___years.

    Also, I didn't mean to imply that she was JUST a VC, I know she's better than that, but I don't believe captain level is appropriate either. She CERTAINLY won't be speedblitzing Hitsugaya, there's no evidence for that at all.

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