Nanamine & His Methods

[saladesu]

This is a general thread for discussing Nanamine and his methods. Do you think his methods are "ethically" right? What do you dislike about his methods? What do you like about them? What do you dislike about Nanamine as a character? And so on...

Basically, this thread is for anything about Nanamine and his methods

Do remember to keep the discussion civil, no bashing, excessive sarcasm or the ilk will be tolerated.

[suarhnir]

oyos

personally, i don't even think this arc is 'over'... we've reached the climax or maybe just before it, next we will likely cover nanamine finally beginning to consider/accept kosugi's help instead of relying on his group. we will also see the return of nakai into the manga industry with the others, more or less renewed in his dreams to be a mangaka.

as for nanamine's group... it was doomed from the beginning and would never work out in a creative industry like manga. first off, when you bring in that many 'experts,' which by the way are only 50 random people who liked nanamine's work and gave better than average comments/criticism, you will have either lots of disagreements or lots of sheep going along with what the majority say. then you have the issue of people in this group really doing the 'rehashed ideas' from things they liked. finally, there is the lack of dedication once things go sour since these people are not 'bound' to keep working on it.

[suarhnir]

Television shows are written by a team of writers.

oyos

yes and no, they have a team but only one or two work on a single episode and they cycle through the team on different episodes. they don't throw 50 people to work on one episode.

there is no superbly great creative production that was created (to date) from a team that had more than 4 people thinking up the core ideas. find me a well known and popular piece that had more than 4 people creating it (core people, not the minions who do little spot work or pieces; this is to compare to how ashirogi works vs nanamine)

[Reclaimer]

oyos
yes and no, they have a team but only one or two work on a single episode and they cycle through the team on different episodes. they don't throw 50 people to work on one episode.

I'm not an expert on the television industry and how they write shows, but I seriously doubt it. I'm thinking sit coms in particular. I'm almost positive that those are written in a group setting.

there is no superbly great creative production that was created (to date) from a team that had more than 4 people thinking up the core ideas.

Absurdly broad and definitive statement much?

find me a well known and popular piece that had more than 4 people creating it (core people, not the minions who do little spot work or pieces; this is to compare to how ashirogi works vs nanamine)

Almost every movie known to man. And I'm not including actors. I'm talking simply writing the script.
You have the original screenplay writer.
You have a second person who works on it after the studio buys it.
You have the director.
You have the producer.
And you have the actors.
Plus, whoever else comes in to work on the script afterwards.

If the movie is based on a book, you can likely include the original author in there as well, even though they usually aren't the ones writing the screenplay.

[sarydactl]

once again i appear from lurking. there's just too many weird misconceptions floating around, i'd like to address some. and i'm sorry about my last post with the mistaking spectrum nexus as a scanlating team v_v ; . EN EE WAYS:

there is no superbly great creative production that was created (to date) from a team that had more than 4 people thinking up the core ideas. find me a well known and popular piece that had more than 4 people creating it (core people, not the minions who do little spot work or pieces; this is to compare to how ashirogi works vs nanamine)

It's quite likely that "Shakespeare" was actually a committee of people. So, to begin with, most (if not all) of those works. To make the parallel even more relevant, notice how nobody other than Shakespeare got credited? Same as Nanamine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakesp...tive_candidate While the wikipedia article postulates many different theories, expect to hear the 'group' theory in any college courses, ESPECIALLY with more recent manuscript findings. So there's that. Honestly I don't know if I should invest more in refuting this.

On scriptmaking and film, I can't say more than Reclaimer already did. The revision process of movies, films, animations, and shows is rather intense, and involves a slew of people (I would be incredibly surprised if LESS than four managed to achieve a decent script, let alone production).

The problem with Nanamine's method is not that he has a group of people, but that the group lacks order. He would need to make a 'unified' voice (what his editor has been hinting at), but instead he listens to every suggestion the message board makes (in his own words).

I imagine the solution would be to create a hierarchy in the group--suggestions from those lower in the hierarchy would weigh less than those higher in the hierarchy, and vice versa. Their ranks would be determined by, probably, Nanamine's own preference, or the popularity/success of the ideas they come up with. This would filter poor ideas AND unify the voice of the comic.

Whether Nanamine chooses to implement a structure to his group, though, remains unknown. I am rather disappointed that the arc appears to be wrapping up--it's quite possible he will end up as another Ryu Shizuka. That character still exists, right? Unlike Shizuka, though, I think Nanamine will return. He's heavily discussed, and probably a fan favorite.

[suarhnir]

oyos

you guys are missing the point... you take it too far on the 'all the people involved.' the core people in actually creating a story is either the writer or producer. you look up any tv series or movie and while there's a team that have worked on a series, you will also notice that only 2-3 people write one episode. that's how tv works. the director and other jobs are like the assistants for a mangaka.

shakespeare, brothers grimm... those guys did something with other's ideas and stories that wasn't done before. they wrote it down. shakespear geared the stories he found while searching into a play, while the brothers grimm compliled folk stories from all over their region into a book. even then you have a small group or a single person thinking of accomplishing this 'project' and everyone else are only doing 'parts/episodes'.

anyways, let's take it to another thread for debating this.

more on topic, i think nakai knowing that aoki is in a relationship will also fuel his return to pursuing making manga, in order to prove his worth to her... though it won't be evident right away

[Evil Mind]

Not to attack Nanamine or anything, but as I think over the last few chapters I can't think of one panel that actually shows Nanamine working on his manga. Most of the time he is watching others talk about it online and I've seen him sit at a drafting desk once to talk about it. But honestly I can't say I remember seeing him actually put pen to paper this whole time. It bothers me a little that with all the help he gets (50-20 writers, 15 assistants) he is never shown to actually contribute to the work himself.

[suarhnir]

oyos

having a circle to help get criticism is one thing. getting a circle to make something is another thing. if nanamine was simply making something than asking for opinions that he may or may not use or consider; coming up with the ideas himself and asking feedback like how the other characters discuss with their editor or asking other mangaka. however, going around and grabbing everyone's idea and throwing it into the one heap is trouble on many levels.

they drill this into you at school when making essays and papers: pick a single topic and elaborate/support that. this isn't just because they need to be able to grade it properly, but also because to really write something solid and impacting, you have to focus on one idea. once you start getting too many ideas, your work gets sloppy and you may end up losing the point you were trying to deliver.

[Reclaimer]

It's quite likely that "Shakespeare" was actually a committee of people.

I was thinking Shakespeare and playwrites of the era, but I can't say there were more than 4 per. I'm not reading the wikipedia link, but it was common practice in the era for authors to buy acts or scenes for plays. (Which, incidentally, created some serious cohesion issues) This is supported in Shakespeare's plays by computer language analysis. (Certain parts are obviously him, others in his plays are not)

[sakura_fai]

Urgh, like suarhnir said, coming up with your ideas and getting feedback is one thing, supervising a group to produce a manga is a completely different matter....Nanamine reminds me of a factory manager...-_- Using workers when necessary and throwing them out when the maintaining cost is too high.

Not only that, but Nanamine..he doesn't have the passion of a mangaka, esp in the recent chapters, he's so consumed with rankings and what to change, but has he really read the chapters himself? maybe he should cut stuff instead of thinking what process to do next! He only sees the whole Jump as a competition and a quick-get rich scheme. I mean, has anyone seriously seen him happily drawing the draft, being proud of his work? No...he's just focused on the reward...and Hiramura has the same attitude, but that guy is slowly warming up to the idea of drawing manga, and in the end, he still works on his own.

[saladesu]

Yes, sakurai_fai, I agree with you. Nanamine doesn't seem to actually enjoy drawing manga - he likes being in charge, winning and making a quick buck. I thought he was pretty intelligent at first, but now his actions only show how immature he is. All he's concerned with is winning. I know this is shounen manga and winning is important, but how you do it is also important!

It's obvious that he really believes in what he told Nakai to say to Aoki, "In this world, rankings are everything".

[Reclaimer]

Not only that, but Nanamine..he doesn't have the passion of a mangaka, esp in the recent chapters, he's so consumed with rankings and what to change, but has he really read the chapters himself? maybe he should cut stuff instead of thinking what process to do next! He only sees the whole Jump as a competition and a quick-get rich scheme. I mean, has anyone seriously seen him happily drawing the draft, being proud of his work? No...he's just focused on the reward...and Hiramura has the same attitude, but that guy is slowly warming up to the idea of drawing manga, and in the end, he still works on his own.

Um, you realize this could describe Ashirogi Muto, right? Their motives are not even slightly pure, and even with their mellowing out, it is still debatable whether they have learned anything. I would argue no, that were it not for the practical realities, they would be pushing for a second series, not because they have a second story to tell, but to fulfill an inane promise.

Is that better than seeing a commercial magazine as a means of making money? I might be alone in saying no, but even if you don't agree, you CANNOT argue that Ashirogi Muto has pure intentions in regards to manga. It is a means to an end, you just happen to think the end is not as despicable as greed or pride or whatever motive you want to attribute to Nanamine.

[suarhnir]

oyos

well a job is all about performance and for manga it is graded by rankings. nanamine wants to have the benefits without doing the work, which is different from all the other mangaka who are really putting some level of effort. when you don't do the work, it does show up eventually and nanamine's method is coming back to bite him.

[Reclaimer]

oyos

well a job is all about performance and for manga it is graded by rankings. nanamine wants to have the benefits without doing the work, which is different from all the other mangaka who are really putting some level of effort.

On what are you basing this claim? He is doing at least the same amount of work as Mashiro.

[suarhnir]

On what are you basing this claim? He is doing at least the same amount of work as Mashiro.

oyos

his art was never the biggest problem, it's the story and ideas. even then, most single mangaka (like niizuma and fukuda) are still at least thinking up their own stories. it was an agreed setup that mashiro would do the art and takagi the story. even in his art, he's taking ideas of how to draw them from his circle (as he referenced about the school uniforms). he's still doing far less work than the average mangaka.