Not a member? Register now!
Announcements
Manga returns! Catch up with the details. Enjoy downloading, translating, and scanlating manga HERE legally!
Like us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter! Celebrate another year with MH and read our yearbook.
Manga News: Check out this week's new manga (8/18/14 - 8/24/14).
Forum News: Visit new sections for Nisekoi and Kingdom!
Translations: Gintama 507 by Bomber D Rufi

View Poll Results: Who wins?

Voters
110. You may not vote on this poll
  • Kenpachi

    36 32.73%
  • Shinji

    74 67.27%
Thread Closed
Page 4 of 17 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 6 14 ... LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 251

Thread: Zaraki Kenpachi vs Hirako Shinji

  1. #46
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Country
    United States
    Age
    26
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    804
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Zaraki Kenpachi vs Hirako Shinji

    You clearly missed my point. I already acknowledged those positions, but when the ACTUAL ATTACK took place, we don't see Shinji upside down, do we? Which is the basis of people talking about him turning specific inversions on and off.

    Quote Quote:
    Now, there's the fact that neither Shinji nor Hitsugaya were upside down when Aizen was looking at them (when Hitsugaya was attacking). If everything had been inverted, then Aizen should have seen Hitsugaya upside down, but he didn't--which means that Shinji didn't invert everything, right? It does seem as though it was just front and back. Either way, Shinji definitely didn't invert everything that time though.
    Or, you know, Shinji didn't have Sakanade active on Aizen at the time.

    Quote Quote:
    I mean, here: http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...4-page-20.html ......we see Aizen only noticing or realizing that things were inverted the moment he saw Shinji with sakanade, which means that Aizen definitely wasn't looking at an upside down Hitsugaya and that's why Aizen hadn't realized that things were inverted when he first saw that Hitsugaya was charging at him (Aizen thought that Hitsugaya was coming from the front). Shinji didn't invert up and down. I think it makes sense because wouldn't Aizen get a tad suspicious if Hitsugaya was upside down?
    Again, if he didn't activate it until the moment Aizen noticed him standing there, it makes sense that Hitsugaya wasn't upside down, seeing as how we've never seen an attack take place while upside down.

    Quote Quote:
    Perhaps Kubo could have just drawn them clashing from Shinji's perspective in that particular part, not Aizens. Do remember that Shinji is not truly upside down nor does Shinji fight under the effects of sakanade (Shinji fights normally; it's his enemy who has a pretty nasty debuff), Aizen is the one who sees things upside down, backwards etc.
    Which is the point I was making in the first place. That the lack of upside down actual battling being drawn means that Shinji isn't turning it on and off.

    Quote Quote:
    Nevertheless, Kubo still drew Shinji charging at him and in that instance it was definitely from Aizen's perspective as he saw Shinj upside down; Aizen himself stated that he was looking at an upside down Shinji. Yet later when he looked Shinji or Hitsugaya, neither of them were upside down.
    That would be because it's easier to show someone charging upside down than fighting upside down; again, that's my point.

    Quote Quote:
    And Aizen was clearly looking at them in that last scene (Aizen's perspective)--specially since, again, Aizen would have known that things were reversed if he had seen an upside down Hitsugaya, but Aizen didn't realize that until he saw Shinji swinging his sakanade, thus Shinji purposefully choose not to invert up and down.
    Again, all that proves is that it wasn't active until that moment. You can argue that Shinji can chose who is affected and when, but there's no proof that Sakanade was even active until the moment Hitsugaya stabbed Aizen.


    Quote Originally Posted by Takahashi View Post
    I'm not saying that kicking an injured and weakened Grimmjow is an amazing feat or anything...I don't think Grimmjow's that great to begin with. Was just saying that there's a pretty obvious reason why Shinji didn't kill him. You can't hold that against him.

    I voted for Shinji, but it's not like I said it'd be easy or anything...
    Considering you're saying that Shinji wins with Shikai and Mask vs. someone that's defeated a Bankai and two released Espadas (I actually think that Yammy was at R3, looking at how he had a tail and black covering his legs in the final panel with him, but of course, he had Byakuya's help here) in HM, where people were arguing about this boost that negates Ulquiorra's feats...yea, I think you're basically saying it's an easy win. You're saying he can't figure it out before Shinji wastes him, as if Shinji has strong enough attacks to actually pwn Kenpachi.
    Last edited by UchihaHunter; March 16, 2011 at 12:35 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  2. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
  3. #47
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Buzz Killington's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    220
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Zaraki Kenpachi vs Hirako Shinji

    Quote Originally Posted by UchihaHunter View Post
    Yea...he dominated a busted up Grimmjaw, yet he didn't finish him. Screw being sealed, he had his mask on. I've seen people on here saying that a mask's boost is around equal to a Bankai, and others saying it's equal to a resurrecion. Considering with his mask on he couldn't keep Grimmjaw from being able to release, what was he going to do if Grimmjaw released?
    I disagree with the bolded, so I won't address that nonsense

    Aside from that, Shinji didn't even try to keep Grimmjow from releasing. What would he have done? How about beat him down again? Grimmjow's the one you're gonna have to make a case for somehow becoming stronger than Shinji in his release form, and seeing as Grimmjow had to weaken Shinji's cero just to survive it, while Shinji walked away unscatched and untouched, its gonna be an uphill battle on your part making a case.


    Quote Quote:
    And again, regarding the instincts, I've yet to see an explanation of how Shinji could turn on and off his ability that didn't explain why no one EVER appeared upside down when an attack took place. So...if he can't turn the inversions on and off, that makes it a lot easier for Kenpachi to figure out, and of course, as soon as he sees Shinji upside down, something's going to click. If Shinji, being his cocky self, starts explaining his ability (again, Tousen waited for Kenpachi to be unable to hear him, lol), then YES, Kenpachi is going to figure out and counter Sakanade.
    Shinji can choose who he wants the effect to be placed on apparently, seeing as no one but Aizen had their senses inverted during the group attack performed by Hitsugaya, Soi Fon, Kyoraku and Shinji himself. So its just a matter of him alleviating the effects on Zaraki if necessary, which I don't think it is.

    Also, it's alot harder than just "seeing Shinji upside down" and realizing what's going on, let's not assume everyone is capable of Aizen-level intelligence feats, and even he assumed wrong in his first analysis of the ability.

    Quote Quote:
    And what major blows have we even seen Shinji dish out to high-level opponents? A Grimmjaw that wasn't even in the Espada shouldn't count as a high-level opponent for any Captain-class shinigami other than a crappy Ichigo.
    Except Grimmjow was still Espada level, so I don't see your point

  4. #48
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Austin
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    464
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Zaraki Kenpachi vs Hirako Shinji

    Quote Originally Posted by UchihaHunter View Post
    And again, regarding the instincts, I've yet to see an explanation of how Shinji could turn on and off his ability that didn't explain why no one EVER appeared upside down when an attack took place. So...if he can't turn the inversions on and off, that makes it a lot easier for Kenpachi to figure out, and of course, as soon as he sees Shinji upside down, something's going to click. If Shinji, being his cocky self, starts explaining his ability (again, Tousen waited for Kenpachi to be unable to hear him, lol), then YES, Kenpachi is going to figure out and counter Sakanade.
    Kenpachi never "figured out" anything regarding Tousen's Bankai, he was just able to use his incredible reactions to his advantage. As I have said in a previous post, here his reactions will totally screw him over, since he will be unable to prevent himself from reacting the way he does to conventional strikes, which will result in him not landing a hit when Sakenade is being used. So unless Kenpachi is able to ignore his instinctive abilities and think his way around Shinji's Shikai fast enough to be able to counterattack - a very unlikely scenario in my opinion, he won't stand a chance against Shinji.

  5. #49
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member exacta's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Country
    United States
    Age
    23
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,268
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Zaraki Kenpachi vs Hirako Shinji

    Quote Originally Posted by UchihaHunter View Post
    They look even? Shinji couldn't even waste freaking Grimmjaw! In the real world AFTER Ichigo pwned him. What have we seen from Shinji to show that he can even waste Grimmjaw without Sakanade?

    I mean, come on, I understand the hype, I under he's the leader of the Vizards, but...really? He never accomplished what you should be attempting to accomplish in a battle.

    And talk about overconfidence...Shinji KNEW Aizen's ability manipulated the senses, and presumably KNEW that it manipulated all 5 of the senses, yet he still acted all cocky and thought his Sakanade would be what ended Aizen. Shinji had overconfidence in abundance as well, let's not act like Tousen's the only cocky shinigami here.
    Grimmjow was in a weakened state since he was mssing his arm, but he was clearly losing. You can't say Shinji couldn't've wasted Grimmjow in that scenario. He pwned Grimmjow, then before Grimmjow got to release Ulquiorr stepped in. Shinji likely would've won there because he still had a shikai and a bankai in that scenario. We may not know what his Bankai is, but if Grimmjow had to release just to keep up with his mask, the boost in power from a shikai or a Bankai should be enough for that battle. If Grimmjow had his other arm I suppose you could argue he could win, but I don't see Grimmjow coming out on top.

    Shinji was somewhat overconfident, but it looked like he was going in for the kill when he was going to perform his second attack, whereas Tousen played around alot more. And Kenpachi won't figure Sakanade out as fast as Aizen did, if he can. Plus Kenpachi is primarily CQC so he's going to rely heavily on visual information and reflexes, which is bad for him in this case. Coupled with the fact that Shinji can take care of himself in CQC and his physical abilities should get a nice increase from the mask, I'd give it to Shinji.

  6. #50
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Country
    United States
    Age
    26
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    804
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Zaraki Kenpachi vs Hirako Shinji

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz Killington View Post
    Aside from that, Shinji didn't even try to keep Grimmjow from releasing. What would he have done? How about beat him down again? Grimmjow's the one you're gonna have to make a case for somehow becoming stronger than Shinji in his release form, and seeing as Grimmjow had to weaken Shinji's cero just to survive it, while Shinji walked away unscatched and untouched, its gonna be an uphill battle on your part making a case.
    My point is that he didn't kill Grimmjaw. Despite saying he wasn't taking it easy on him. Do you get what I'm saying? Grimmjaw wasn't even in top form, and Shinji couldn't waste him with his mask on. And now people are saying that by flipping some directions around (remember that his Shikai doesn't seem to give him any strength, speed, etc.) he's going to pwn Kenpachi? If that's your argument, you're going to have to show me how Shinji inflicts more damage than released Nnoitra in HM.

    Quote Quote:
    Shinji can choose who he wants the effect to be placed on apparently, seeing as no one but Aizen had their senses inverted during the group attack performed by Hitsugaya, Soi Fon, Kyoraku and Shinji himself. So its just a matter of him alleviating the effects on Zaraki if necessary, which I don't think it is.
    So he removes the effects...and pwns Kenpachi? Again, all it takes is an attack to realize that it's on, and we've NEVER seen him rapidly switching it on and off in combat, so to assume he can do otherwise a la Aizen is, in your terms, a hasty generalization.

    Quote Quote:
    Also, it's alot harder than just "seeing Shinji upside down" and realizing what's going on, let's not assume everyone is capable of Aizen-level intelligence feats, and even he assumed wrong in his first analysis of the ability.
    It's not intelligence, it's that Shinji freaking explained it because he's a cocky guy. Also, let's not act like Kenpachi is dumb as rocks, he figured out what to do to get out of Tousen's Bankai pretty easily, considering he got attacked ~3 times and didn't take any attack in its entirety outside of the first. Not to mention his counter attacks were getting better, despite only having touch!

    Quote Quote:
    Except Grimmjow was still Espada level, so I don't see your point
    Except that he wasn't an Espada. He was removed from the Espada. Forget what the analysis said, Ichigo apparently had Captain-class reiatsu from the fight with Kenpachi on, that didn't mean he could defeat Bankai captains (or even Kenpachi if he actually fought seriously from the beginning). Apparently Ikkaku could have been a Captain (notice he was approached by Renji, who also has Bankai). He barely beat a Fraccion. Does that mean the Fraccion was Espada-level?

    Grimmjaw was removed from the Espada, thus, he wasn't Espada level. He wasn't even allowed to stay in the Espada to knock another Espada out, so he dropped at least 4 ranks. So I don't see your point.

  7. #51
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Raizen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Where the Red Fern Grows
    Country
    United States
    Age
    24
    Posts
    6,102
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Zaraki Kenpachi vs Hirako Shinji

    Quote Originally Posted by AlB View Post
    now, now. He just got emotional
    Who would have thought that despite his huge grinning smile, he would be so emo
    _____________________
    But back on topic, I don't see shinji capable of injuring kenpachi fatally. Even noitora slashing and piercing him still didn't stop him. So it gives ken more than enough of a chance to figure out sakanade and KO him.

    I personally don't see sakanade as that hax of a shikai

  8. #52
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Takahashi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Country
    Canada
    Age
    25
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,050
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Zaraki Kenpachi vs Hirako Shinji

    Quote Originally Posted by UchihaHunter View Post
    Considering you're saying that Shinji wins with Shikai and Mask vs. someone that's defeated a Bankai and two released Espadas (I actually think that Yammy was at R3, looking at how he had a tail and black covering his legs in the final panel with him, but of course, he had Byakuya's help here) in HM, where people were arguing about this boost that negates Ulquiorra's feats...yea, I think you're basically saying it's an easy win. You're saying he can't figure it out before Shinji wastes him, as if Shinji has strong enough attacks to actually pwn Kenpachi.
    I'm well aware of Kenpachi's track record. Problem is, he doesn't take things seriously, he lets himself get SEVERELY hurt before doing anything to end the fight, and Shinji can easily take advantage of that. That being said very few people have an easy win against Kenpachi, he doesn't go down easily, and he hits hard. But if I were to bet, I'd bet on Shinji, although I can already see Kenpachi winning this, so no worries.

  9. #53
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Raizen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Where the Red Fern Grows
    Country
    United States
    Age
    24
    Posts
    6,102
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Zaraki Kenpachi vs Hirako Shinji

    Quote Originally Posted by Takahashi View Post
    My main reason for voting for Shinji is his ability to decide what to reverse and what not to. Tousen's Bankai put Kenpachi in a bad situation, but at least he knew the mechanics would never change. Shinji's Shikai is a mind fuck to say the least.

    In terms of Cero...Nah, Cero suck. Stark gets a pass because he can fire 1000.
    I don't he can. Everything was reveresed against aizen. And then during the combo with the other captains, he activated sakanade again right as hitsu attacked. So i don't think he can change it

  10. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
  11. #54
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Jackk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Yoruichi
    Country
    United States
    Age
    24
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    791
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Zaraki Kenpachi vs Hirako Shinji

    Quote Originally Posted by UchihaHunter View Post
    You clearly missed my point.
    No, you clearly missed my point.

    Quote Originally Posted by UchihaHunter View Post
    Again, all that proves is that it wasn't active until that moment. You can argue that Shinji can chose who is affected and when, but there's no proof that Sakanade was even active until the moment Hitsugaya stabbed Aizen.
    Wrong. Seriously...

    Hitsugaya was behind Aizen. http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...4-page-19.html

    Then Aizen sees hitsugaya (not upside down) charging at him from the front. Then he notices Shinji swinging his sakanade and realizes that things must be inverted http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...4-page-20.html

    True enough, Aizen realized that Hitsugaya was actually behind him, but it was too late and he got stabbed from behind. http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...4-page-21.html (Aizen didn't actually get stabbed due to LOLillusions, but Shinji using sakanade in such a way and the others attacking was all real).


  12. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
  13. #55
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Country
    United States
    Age
    26
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    804
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Zaraki Kenpachi vs Hirako Shinji

    Quote Originally Posted by ShootToKill View Post
    Kenpachi never "figured out" anything regarding Tousen's Bankai, he was just able to use his incredible reactions to his advantage. As I have said in a previous post, here his reactions will totally screw him over, since he will be unable to prevent himself from reacting the way he does to conventional strikes, which will result in him not landing a hit when Sakenade is being used. So unless Kenpachi is able to ignore his instinctive abilities and think his way around Shinji's Shikai fast enough to be able to counterattack - a very unlikely scenario in my opinion, he won't stand a chance against Shinji.
    He figured out how to get himself out of it. He didn't totally understand if grabbing Tousen or grabbing his sword was the key, but he knew he needed to tank an attack.

    And let's clear this up as well. Someone that has used sight and hearing to fight for hundreds of years will be accustomed to using those senses. When these are all removed, they will also lose whatever instincts they had regarding those senses, and that's part of how Tousen's Bankai works. Most people can't go around fighting blindfolded after fighting with sight, even when having hearing to rely on. Now remove hearing and it gets harder as well. You're going to tell me that Kenpachi wouldn't be able to strike the middle of Shinji (since that's really all that's necessary to negate most of the reversals) before Shinji kills him? Despite Shinji + Mask not being able to kill Grimmjaw in the time he had? Despite him not putting a scratch on Gin, who we know wasn't taking much of anything seriously?

    Quote Originally Posted by exacta View Post
    Grimmjow was in a weakened state since he was mssing his arm, but he was clearly losing. You can't say Shinji couldn't've wasted Grimmjow in that scenario. He pwned Grimmjow, then before Grimmjow got to release Ulquiorr stepped in. Shinji likely would've won there because he still had a shikai and a bankai in that scenario. We may not know what his Bankai is, but if Grimmjow had to release just to keep up with his mask, the boost in power from a shikai or a Bankai should be enough for that battle. If Grimmjow had his other arm I suppose you could argue he could win, but I don't see Grimmjow coming out on top.
    I'm not arguing that Shinji would lose, that would be stupid. I'm arguing that he didn't pwn someone that a Captain should've been able to pwn, especially one with a Mask. If that's Kenpachi, Grimmjaw probably gets Tesla'd. Dude wasn't in the Espada, he wasn't in the top 10 of reiatsu, apparently losing his arm dropped him quite a bit.

    Quote Quote:
    Shinji was somewhat overconfident, but it looked like he was going in for the kill when he was going to perform his second attack, whereas Tousen played around alot more. And Kenpachi won't figure Sakanade out as fast as Aizen did, if he can. Plus Kenpachi is primarily CQC so he's going to rely heavily on visual information and reflexes, which is bad for him in this case. Coupled with the fact that Shinji can take care of himself in CQC and his physical abilities should get a nice increase from the mask, I'd give it to Shinji.
    Somewhat overconfident? Explaining your ability to freaking Aizen is more than somewhat overconfident, it's stupid. And again, Kenpachi has little figuring to do since Shinji is cocky! If you're getting that cocky against someone you know is dangerous (and after your (gf?) got cut in half?!?!) At the least, he should've been MUCH more serious against Gin.


    Quote Originally Posted by Takahashi View Post
    I'm well aware of Kenpachi's track record. Problem is, he doesn't take things seriously, he lets himself get SEVERELY hurt before doing anything to end the fight, and Shinji can easily take advantage of that. That being said very few people have an easy win against Kenpachi, he doesn't go down easily, and he hits hard. But if I were to bet, I'd bet on Shinji, although I can already see Kenpachi winning this, so no worries.
    ...not against Tesla, lol. When the fight gets boring, he finishes it. He let himself get cut against Ichigo and Nnoitra because they were fighting his style of fight. Against Tousen and Tesla, he was bored and finished it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jackk View Post
    No, you clearly missed my point.
    Sigh.

    Quote Quote:
    Wrong. Seriously...

    Hitsugaya was behind Aizen. http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...4-page-19.html

    Then Aizen sees hitsugaya (not upside down) charging at him from the front. Then he notices Shinji swinging his sakanade and realizes that things must be inverted http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...4-page-20.html

    True enough, Aizen realized that Hitsugaya was actually behind him, but it was too late and he got stabbed from behind. http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...4-page-21.html (Aizen didn't actually get stabbed due to LOLillusions, but Shinji using sakanade in such a way and the others attacking was all real).
    ...Hitsugaya was behind him from the beginning, seeing as he attacked from behind and Aizen looked behind him.

    The point at which Aizen messed up was that he was turning around to counter Hitsugaya (which would make Hitsugaya face him), but since Shinji then activated Sakanade, he showed up behind him.
    Last edited by UchihaHunter; March 16, 2011 at 01:06 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  14. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
  15. #56
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Gourmet World
    Country
    Mariejoa
    Age
    26
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    4,427
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Zaraki Kenpachi vs Hirako Shinji

    I go with Kenpachi in this fight. He is tank and reiatsu moster. Sorry, if people don't like these frases, but still it is a fact. Even without knowing the name of his Zan, hence not being posible to get in poper Shikai he can match Bankai Captain's reiatsu. He is also damn strong physically, hence his actual attacking power is pretty great, even though he is a close range fighter.
    On the other hand Shinji is pretty weak overall. I can understand why and for what feats people consider him as the strongest among the Vaizards? He is the weakest physically with Rose and his actual attacking abilities are limited to Cero that he can't spam, cause his mask has a clear limit. He also didn't show any defending abilities, so Ken will just slice him in one blow as he did to Nnoitora when he got serious.
    Also I don't by that Shinji's Shikai is hax. It's not his Shikai that is hax. Its people who make his Shikai hax.
    Ken managed to overcome Tousen's Shikai, so there won't be any problem for him to overcome Shinji's Shikai in the same way and Shinji isn't physically better than Tousen without a mask and in mask Tousen actually was better than Shinji with mask.
    Ken can be hit once by Shinji's sword, but the next time he will grab his hand and the fight will be over.

  16. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
  17. #57
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Country
    United States
    Age
    26
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    804
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Zaraki Kenpachi vs Hirako Shinji

    Also, @Takahashi.

    Up until just now, I was pretty much debating 3 or 4 people on my own. It seems that Shinji has got quite the fan club, so I wouldn't count him out. That would be why I'm still debating this, lol

  18. #58
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Buzz Killington's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    220
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Zaraki Kenpachi vs Hirako Shinji

    Quote Originally Posted by UchihaHunter View Post
    My point is that he didn't kill Grimmjaw. Despite saying he wasn't taking it easy on him. Do you get what I'm saying? Grimmjaw wasn't even in top form, and Shinji couldn't waste him with his mask on. And now people are saying that by flipping some directions around (remember that his Shikai doesn't seem to give him any strength, speed, etc.) he's going to pwn Kenpachi? If that's your argument, you're going to have to show me how Shinji inflicts more damage than released Nnoitra in HM.
    So because Shinji didn't 1 shot Grimmjow he's somehow incapable of defeating Zaraki?

    Re-read the Grimmjow/Shinji fight, see how pathetically outclassed Grimmjow was and why Shinji donned his mask to begin with. Grimmjow survived by reflexively firing his own Cero to dilute the damage from Shinji's.

    My argument was never what you claimed it was, so I don't have to show he inflicts more damage than Released Nnoitra, however, I'd oblige you a bit and show you how Shinji's cero does more than Base Ulquiorra's, who's a rank higher than Nnoitra's for comparison. I could also ask you what makes you think Kenny's gonna pwn Shinji, seeing as he couldn't even take out Tousen with a wide open attack.. But I won't

    Anyway, point is, Shinji isn't 1-shotting Kenny by any means. He'd take him down after a nice amount of attacks while masked

    Quote Quote:
    So he removes the effects...and pwns Kenpachi? Again, all it takes is an attack to realize that it's on, and we've NEVER seen him rapidly switching it on and off in combat, so to assume he can do otherwise a la Aizen is, in your terms, a hasty generalization.
    I never claimed the bolded.

    Also, while it only takes an attack to know your senses are inverted, it takes more to know to what extent. Your attempt at calling me out on a hasty generalization applies to the argument you made below, which is essentially that since Aizen figured it out quickly so could Kenpachi
    Quote Quote:
    It's not intelligence, it's that Shinji freaking explained it because he's a cocky guy. Also, let's not act like Kenpachi is dumb as rocks, he figured out what to do to get out of Tousen's Bankai pretty easily, considering he got attacked ~3 times and didn't take any attack in its entirety outside of the first. Not to mention his counter attacks were getting better, despite only having touch!
    Kenpachi didn't figure out Tousen's Bankai except the obvious, which was that he lost all his senses. He knew he had touch because he could still feel his sword. He just tanked his way through it by his own reflexes, and when he came to the conclusion of allowing Tousen to stab him to get a hit, he realized he could see if he touched Tousen's blade

    I dunno what you're trying to prove here. Either way, Kenny's intelligence is a far cry from Aizen's, who didn't even figure out the ability the after Shinji told him a bit about it

    Aside from that, there's also the implication that Aizen used Kyoka Suigetsu to get a hit on Shinji during their encounter, even the anime portrayed this as being the case, so again, Aizen isn't a crutch you can use for Kenpachi


    Quote Quote:
    Except that he wasn't an Espada. He was removed from the Espada. Forget what the analysis said, Ichigo apparently had Captain-class reiatsu from the fight with Kenpachi on, that didn't mean he could defeat Bankai captains (or even Kenpachi if he actually fought seriously from the beginning). Apparently Ikkaku could have been a Captain (notice he was approached by Renji, who also has Bankai). He barely beat a Fraccion. Does that mean the Fraccion was Espada-level?

    Grimmjaw was removed from the Espada, thus, he wasn't Espada level. He wasn't even allowed to stay in the Espada to knock another Espada out, so he dropped at least 4 ranks. So I don't see your point.
    I've already proved you're wrong on the point that Grimmjow wasn't "Espada level", otherwise his reiatsu wouldn't have come up as "Espada level" on SS's radar. You're gonna have to try a different route

    It's a rule that losing an arm kicks you out of the Espada, hence why Yammy had to get his re-attached. Nothing about suddenly becoming weaker than the other Espada

    So, as I said, try another route. Telling me to "Forget the analysis" is telling me to deny manga canon in favor of your opinion, I'd rather not

  19. Thanks 2 Member(s) thanked this post
  20. #59
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Jackk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Yoruichi
    Country
    United States
    Age
    24
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    791
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Zaraki Kenpachi vs Hirako Shinji

    Quote Originally Posted by UchihaHunter View Post
    ...Hitsugaya was behind him from the beginning, seeing as he attacked from behind and Aizen looked behind him.

    The point at which Aizen messed up was that he was turning around to counter Hitsugaya (which would make Hitsugaya face him), but since Shinji then activated Sakanade, he showed up behind him.
    No, wrong. Quit denying manga canon.

    Aizen saw Hitsugaya charging from the front in that scan. Then on the last page, he said to himself: "He's behind me!" realizing that he was really behind him, but it was too late. http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...4-page-21.html


  21. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
  22. #60
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Takahashi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Country
    Canada
    Age
    25
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,050
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Zaraki Kenpachi vs Hirako Shinji

    Quote Originally Posted by UchihaHunter View Post
    Also, @Takahashi.

    Up until just now, I was pretty much debating 3 or 4 people on my own.
    Yeah... I've only been skimming, so I'm not even really sure what the main issues are. I'll have no problem giving support to Kenpachi though either, I could have gone either way with this one. Not right now though, I'm supposed to be studying for my test today, which I may do.


    Quote Quote:
    It seems that Shinji has got quite the fan club, so I wouldn't count him out. That would be why I'm still debating this, lol
    Well, it's also the same people arguing with you although I foresee a flood of votes from people that never post.

Thread Closed
Page 4 of 17 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 6 14 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts