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Translations: Gintama 515 (2)
I looked over the topics and I didn't found something similar to this, so maybe a little discussion about Yagi's source of inspiration
I watched yesterday anime movie from 1989, that English title is "Blood Reign Curse of the Yoma" It can be found in network.
And I seen some similarities to Claymore word. Same title have "Yoma" in name, usually We hear "bakemono" monster, goblin, ghost, phantom, so Yoma is quite rare. In this anime Yomas are like spiders but hidden in humans form, using web to capture victims and eats their guts. There is a king of this "monsters" and He was born from the soil stained with blood of humans died during a Shogun war.
Maybe somebody, who better knows Japan mythology will try to explain, why Yagi used Yoma?
Then a swords, from it names Claymore are named. Long, thick, unbreakable, almost like in Berserk, but made with finesse and style.
It is not just a piece of metal used to kill, but also an unique to every user thing that helps to identify Him and after death is used as His tombstone. And it is not a Japan Katana Sword, so Yagi was not use Japan samurai style of weaponry and armory.
Where We can find this kind of similarity? Middle Ages? Vikings? Germans Vandals?
Then appearance of characters. I put a link here:
It is a side dedicated to cycle of books written by Polish author Andrzej Sapkowski about world of a Witcher. A warrior created by organization, which purpose is to fight against a monsters threaded to humans. His eyes changes to yellow when He uses a power implanted to Him by transformation process. I see in this similarity to Claymore behavior, and this Witchers also have forbidden to kill humans. And He for opposite use in fight Japan Katana Sword. I don't know maybe Yagi reads some of this books, and it gives Him inspiration to create similar characters? Of course He did it on His unique style, and here is once again question, is there is something similar to Japan or any others mythology?
My point is, that when We found sources of author inspirations, maybe We can better understand His work and maybe have some better predictions about ongoing and future events?
Maybe I wrote this with a lot of gaps and there is a lot of things to say and write, so I invite You to discussion
Have a good day
Last edited by colonywars; March 13, 2011 at 04:41 AM. Reason: english, english, once again rusted english...
Well, there's LOTS of art references, especially anything related to France as well
(I'll leave it open for you to find them all, hehe, I don't want to spoil the fun of it for whoever is interested)
err... the Claymores' claymore swords are real world historical claymore swords, lol
1. a military explosive (well known by call-of-duty and/or like war/combat/military video/computer games, hehe. type in claymore for a search on youtube.com, and you get lots of vids of claymore kills by players, lol)
2. a 4-5 foot scottish gaelic (braveheart/william wallace) 2-handed dual/double-bladed sword (type of sword: a longsword/greatsword)
3. a manga/anime, and the title for its main type of characters, hehe
Yoma translate specifically into the word "demon" or less specifically "monster"
"Yoma" (Asian/Japanese) = "demon" (english) or more loosely "monster" (english)
*demons are a type of monster, as monster is a very broad word, that can pretty much mean anything, non-human and non-animal.
Claymores are very *valkyrie-like (norse/viking mythology), tall, strong, and beautiful blonde/light hair warrior babes hehe, like Freya, Brunhilde, and others, except that the Claymores wear armor like the paladin class does in RPGs (light/lighter armor)
*technically, valkyries are somewhat like angels in christianity, except a bit different, in that they come to take only the most "worthy" (violent, battle-lustful, or battle-glorious) warriors to Valhalla (viking's/norse's "heaven": a place where they can do endless combat/battles/fights, lol)**
**google+wiki: valkyrie and/or norse mythology
Spoiler: excellent TV show 2 part series of an excellent and hot display of Brunhilde by Kristanna Loken. Awesome axe, sword, and spear choreography done by Loken show
Last edited by HegemonKhan; March 13, 2011 at 06:00 AM.
Regarding the etymology of Clare's name in relation to the swords:
"Clare" derives from three sources: the French feminine name "Claire" (derived from the French word for "clear" or "light"), the British-Irish "Clare" derived from the Latin "clarus" (famous). And the Irish county Clare (Anglicization of the Irish-Gaelic "an Clár"), meaning "a plain or flat place."
According to The Gaelic Etymology of the Languages of Western Europe by Charles Mackay, "claidheamh" can be pronounced "claire," the Scottish Gaelic word for "sword," and more specifically a "claymore" (claidheamh mór). Possibly a homophone for the "Clare" above.
In short, Clare's name can be seen as a pun for "Claymore."
Real Claymore swords were actually a lighter basket-hilted sword, first appearing in 18th century Scotland. Later, "Claymore" went generic and was used for any large Scottish sword. The big, Scottish Highland sword that appeared in the 15th century were actually called "claidheamh dà làimh" (pronounced "claire-de-lay").
These big-bladed swords were invented in Germany in the late 13th century when mail/chain armor was being replaced with plate armor. They were used throughout Europe during the late Middle Ages and beyond and not confined to Scotland.
And the uniforms of the Claymore warriors differ quite a bit from the Norse armor of the Valkyries, as Hege noted. What's depicted in the manga is an Art Deco version of a Roman army-type uniform. From the Claymore Wikia:
It consists of a gray two-piece suit, with a mock-neck dickie marked with the Claymore's identification symbol, which appears at the base of the throat.
Over this they wear pieces of armor: shin high, slightly high-heeled metal boots (Sabatons), large wrist-guards (Vambraces), shoulder pieces (Spaulders) and a partial skirt (Fauld).
While Valkyries appear as to have great freedom of action in Norse mythology, Claymore warriors live the life of conscripted soldiers. Any warrior showing Valkyrie-like tendencies would likely be purged (like Teresa). Unless she killed off any witnesses, like Ophelia.
It's possible Yagi was originally inspired by Valkyries. But the Org depicted certainly doesn't regard their half-Yoma warriors as goddesses!
The current "Zettai Ryouiki" outfits of the Ghosts do resemble the Witcher's. You could be on to something here, colonywars!
Last edited by jamie95403; March 13, 2011 at 08:11 AM.
Thank You very much for taking party in this discussion
I know, that claymore as an sword was historically used weapon, but in manga it looks different from historical design, thus it is Yagi conception to make it look like that, and We still debate from what place they are come and from what they are made. Not to mention that Org used it as an spare things. That is why manga introduce to Us a new way to adjust historical facts to literally fantasy.
Thank You for founding translation to Yoma, but this word is not originally come from Japan language. I search where I can (thus my limited Japan language knowledge, and there for I can be wrong to that!) and I did not found direct translation. Maybe somebody from Japan will try to better explain this?
And about "Ring of the Nibelungs" it is one from My best fantasy films I had watched, and I think that Kristanna Loken will be great in movie adaptation of Claymore as Clare, or maybe She is to tall?
I see that You are very wise in language genesis and nuances there for Yours explanations are very useful My language knowledge is not that high as Yours, but I try my best
Your armory description is outstanding We know that in fighting against Yoma or AB speed is everything, so the lighter is armor then better. And We have seen that Yoma pierced Galks Breast Plate, like hot knife butter, so for Claymore there is no need to wear heavy kind of armor. Then AB never used any armor due the special abilities of their bodies. Your compare to uniform of Rome Legions, except breast plate, swords, shields and helms is very interesting I think that Greek armors can be compared to this to, generally light infantry units with high mobility and without restrain movements.
To both of You:
Comparison to Scandinavian mythology is rather obviously, but once again We see adaptation of historical facts to literal fantasy. That is why this manga have quite unique conceptions, on which We still debate and dispute
Valkyries, as can be seen in Valkyries Profile project or mythology were (are) totally different from Claymores, thus physical similarities, but than there were male Claymores, Riful had dark hair, and Miata has naturally different color of hair than the rest. Witcher from polish novel loose color of hair due transformation, and Claymore loose it to in that process, so in that case maybe Yagi was reading this books
And about Ghosts outfit, it rather look like that Alicia and Beth were wearing, so from where Ghosts take it? And than Witcher was wearing typical Middle Aged light infantry suit except breast plate, metal shoes, shield and helm. Mobility over defensive. Ghosts uniforms had not any kind of reinforcement like normal Claymore suits. Not even yoke for sword, and Tabita made one from belt given to Her from Deneve.
So in that case is something unnaturally, or maybe it is made special to underline differences between Claymores and Ghosts?
Have a nice afternoon
Regarding the Claymore swords: they are pure fantasy designs (as you know), modernized by the same Art Deco stylization we see in the Roman army-like uniforms of the warriors. Historically, as much as 15 centuries or more separate the uniforms from the Scottish swords. Anachronisms galore!
Regarding "Yoma", here's what I wrote in the Claymore Wikia:
Original name: 妖魔 (Yōma). Pronounced in English as in Japanese
Nickname, variant: Monster, Voracious Eater, Youma, Demon, Démon (French), Demoni (Italian)
Regarding dark hair changing color: we've seen it in countless horror/sci-fi movies, the hair usually going white, rather than blond (there's the Sci-fi 1963 The Damned, but the children were already born blond). The eye color usually change to yellow or white. Cliches or tropes of numerous genres. Specific to Claymore, see: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Claymore
But perusing the Witcher Wikia, the similarities of the hero, Geralt (childhood transformation, hair going white, super-human powers, hunting monsters, Medieval-like world), to Claymore are rather plain to see. "Witcher" and "Silver-eyed witch" definitely nails it in the coffin. You've converted me, colonywars! Maybe.
Hope none of the Claymore fundamentalists get mad at me. We're only "speculating," as Miria would say. I do not claim to know anything!
No, there's nothing original about Yagi---or perhaps anyone else. Everything in the series we've all seen elsewhere, done better or worse. But where Yagi succeeds for me is that he emotionally involves me in his world, which no other manga or anime has done. Perhaps this is due to my own limitations and certainly not a reflection on the tastes of anyone else.
Getting back to hair color: some readers speculate that Awakened Beings have more control over their human form than Common Yoma, which includes hair color. So Riffle, Rigardo and that girl in Scene 32 choose to have dark hair. In the case of Clarice, she had no choice in the matter as her Yoma transplant didn't fully take.
All the above is contradicted in Scene 12 and perhaps elsewhere---there appears a "Common Yoma" in human form that has dark brown hair. But maybe it was really an Awakened Being that Teresa killed. I leave this for others to decide.
One question I have for readers of Witcher: is the hero like Isley or the grown-up Lucky?
Regarding those "Zettai Ryouiki" outfits. If Claymore is inspired by Witcher, perhaps the uniforms of the Ghosts are reverting to the original source (speculation only, as I'm only noting the unarmored look, with the belts and straps and leathery looking clothes). Of course, TV Tropes cynically regards the Ghosts' fashion choices as pure "Reader Service."
You're fortunate, colonywars, to be able to read Witcher in the original Polish, unlike us English readers, struggling with bad English scanlations and VIZ translations of Claymore!
Last edited by jamie95403; March 14, 2011 at 06:44 AM.
jamie95403 I am not trying to convert anybody that Witcher was truly Yagi's inspiration and fundamentally adjust Him to Claymore story. I read, when I have time all possible Fantasy and S&F positions I can. That is why I only see some similarities that is all The blob thing is similar to creature created in Dean Koontz novel "Phantoms", some Yoma was similar to the anime I watched and give it title in first post. Also historical, Medieval conceptions and Scandinavian mythology. But Manga have its unique style and conception, as You wrote:
And I fully understand Your point of viewQuote:
Thank You very much for that link there is a lot of useful information Interested one to expand their knowledge about Japan culture should really go there
To answer to Your question, Witcher life was rather hard, He has problems with acceptation Who He Was. His transformation Was not complete, so He had humans emotions. He betray rules of organization when He killed some bandits, but for His lucky this crime was not detected. He even repeatedly was fallen in love. Then He was killed in Total War, resurrected and then maybe (author leave Us with own interpretation, and maybe hope for continuation) He live happy with His true and only love. So I think He was rather like Lucky (Raki) He has a good heart and highly developed sense of justice. He even created His own credo how to live.
About Ghosts suits, My only question was, from where they get it? But it is not a matter that is so important. Its style is common and even worse detailed than normal Claymore suits. That is all
And for American readers, as You, I am really jealousy about licensing some Japan stuff, which in Poland We can only have hope someday to get in native language. For example Berserk, and not even mention about Claymore
Have a nice day Thank You for cooperation
I just watched yesterday anime: Twilight of the Dark Master from 1997.
In this anime there was single-horned Male Demon, which in some details remind Me awakened form of Priscilla. Maybe anybody, who saw this anime has the same association? Or maybe it is just coincidence and My imagination?
Have a good day
Last edited by colonywars; March 24, 2011 at 04:57 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
I saw this commercial on TV yesterday, but the only difference is that the one I saw on TV, the angels had yellow golden eyes. It looked very majestic. But the youtube version didn't have the awesome golden eyes that made you look in even more awe. I'm disappointed.
Anyways, here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NA5tvCyjRpc
It reminded me of Claymore. I mean the way people were circulating them. And they were heading for one guy. If they had swords, it would be a perfect match.
Moderator message by: HegemonKhanHaha, it's an AXE commercial, lol. Good commercial, hehe. They do look like battle angels (and the dark haired ones 'somewhat' convey Priscilla) and that's close to Claymore, except not the angel part, as Claymores/Awakeneds aren't quite angels...hehe
Last edited by HegemonKhan; March 27, 2011 at 07:42 PM.
Speaking of Frankenstein... Yagi's Claymore and Mary Shelley's Frankenstein are near mirrors to each other in terms of their similarity, especially in their themes (what is: Human vs monster and good vs evil and in relation to each other: human vs monster vs good vs evil), grins. And... guess who is the Wretch equivalent in Claymore! Priscilla! Wretch = Priscilla ! Innocent poor Priscilla helplessly fated to be evil, hehe. Dr. Frankenstein = Dae/Rubel !
Last edited by HegemonKhan; April 01, 2011 at 02:37 AM.
I think Rubel would be more along the lines of Robert Walton only not just as narrator but participcant as well. Dae would indeed be equivalent to Victor Frankenstein and Priscilla to the monster or Wretch. Not too sure about any other parallels though.
As I mentioned in different post, in extra chapter no. 4 We saw, like trainee Clare is hitting into the wall to fix Her pulled out arm socket and She did this twice.
That kind of behavior We maybe could saw in many others kung-fu and action movies, but the best performance is made by Mel Gibson in "Lethal Weapon" quad-trilogy Due first movie was made in 1987 and last one in 1998 We can assume, that Yagi was inspired by this scene
Have a good Day
for me, from a literary (what was the purpose of Yagi doing this extra-special ch) perspective:
It was just to show how BAD-ASS and DETERMINED/RESOLVED she was to become a powerful Claymore so that she may kill Priscilla.
It also shows that while, she seemingly was weak getting her arm ripped from her socket, she's dammmmed "tough" (as we really already knew this from her as a Human child/pre-teen/early teen, lol),
AND it shows how FAST she improved... from being laughed at with her shoulder pulled out of its socket, to being the only one to truly pass the final test/trial as a Trainee, even SAIVNG the very Trainee Claymore who had the spar with her and laughed at her when her arm was pulled out of its socket.
This was to show that our Clare, even as a Trainee, had learned well from Rubel, able to deceive everyone with how weak she was, when actually she was very powerful OR she could and would RAPIDLY become very powerful, hehe. She'd continue to deceive others as being the "weak rank 47"... like Deneve+Helen+"spidy" initially, hehe
Last edited by HegemonKhan; April 06, 2011 at 10:28 AM.
I'm 100% sure that Yagi got some inspirations from Xena: Warrior Princess
It was a TV series aired from 1995–2001. After the show ended, Claymore (the manga) was became published in the year of 2001.
A pretty interesting coincidence, if I say so myself.
The same year one ends, another begins.
Xena: Warrior Princess had 7 seasons, so there were probably a numerous of episodes that Yagi looked at to form his ideas in place. Just to say, Xena: Warrior Princess was a very popular series back in the day. It was truly hard to miss if you had a television at home, especially if you had cable.
Here is the OP for Xena: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yg3t7iezS0w
At the ages of 6-8, this show was one of the reasons why I fell in love with violence more than most girls at a young age. Any movie, television, cartoon, anime, manga, or comic series that contained a woman fighting - I would definitely be the first to be in the know how.
So, I guess that would explain my reasons for loving Claymore. If it wasn't for Xena on TV shows and comic series, I wouldn't have been as interested as I am now for Claymore. So you could say that even if Xena wasn't Yagi's inspirations, it became my inspiration for liking what Yagi created.
I apologize that I'm going off track but I could never see Lucy Lawless as Xena again. She'll forever be Lucretia/Domina. She plays such a convincing evil character.
Someone must have interviewed Yagi as Claymore gained popularity. Surely he would have divulged some of his secrets and inspirations for the story. He definitely has an affinity for a European setting. It's been so long since I took art in college but there is a french artist Henri de Toulouse-Lautrec. It could be more than coincidence that those names feature in Claymore with Yagi practicing a similar craft.
I'm glad that Yagi chose a Claymore instead of the Katana that has become almost ubiquitous in movies and animes. It's an unexpected change from the mundane doldrums. Six to Eight years old when you first saw Xena, good Lord, now I know I belong in the geriatrics section.
wickedsmile, I don't know about you, but I could definitely see her as Xena still. For a known warrior type actor to perform so excellently as an evil rich maiden, you begin to question if she still has the spunk for Xena as she did in the past. I say she still does.
It was said in one of the casting interviews that she gave guidance to many of those who were having trouble in action scenes. Even gave the directors an idea on what they should do when they film a scene in place.
Gave her experience on how to use the sword without looking un-real.
I believe what all of this proves is that she is an actor that can perform any role given to her. Whether it be a sex-teaser, fighter, or singer. She knows her stuff. Sure, she played her role on the Spartacus TV show well, but I think she performed better as Xena.
ah, my teenage years... Xena... though actually the first set of episodes of Hercules (Kevin Sorbo), which came out before Xena, were better, as it had lots of hot girls dropping their clothes to the ground (of course no actual nudity is seen)... or were very scantily clad, lol. Though, this disappeared after those first N number of episodes.
for me, Xena was too corny... no offense... but the plot and episodes were lame for me.
though, her yell-thingy was funny and the flying magical ring/disk weapon of hers was kinda neat, lol.
Hercules, actually had some decent story-plot episodes, surprisingly, but most were almost as bad as the uber corny xena episodes, meh...
the only real appeal for me when I was watching Xena, wasn't Lucy Lawless .. I don't like "giantesses" who aren't really that hot actually, but rather whoever was the girl who played Gabriell, in that tight-stiff green top, hoping for some cleavage shots of her as it made her "chest" look bigger than it actually was, lol. I hate how clothes do that... argh!
if you want, the closest preliminary to Claymore:
Disney's old cartoon series:
Demona* (Wingfang - my fan-created last name for her, hehe), Angela, and Gargoyle Elisa Mazda
*Due to a spell, she actually changes between Human (during the day) and a Gargoyle (during the night).
very Claymore-Awakened like, female monsters with strong roles, grins
it's Xena-Teresa, the Warrior Princess-Queen!
Xena: ...no it's not me... its Gabriell, my side-kick, ... but Gabriell, what have you been eating?!
keep investigating... there's soooo much more references to France+Art to be found, grinsOriginally Posted by wickesmile
Last edited by HegemonKhan; April 13, 2011 at 02:50 AM.