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Thread: does anyone else dislike allen?

  1. #16
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Mango-chan's Avatar
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    Re: does anyone else dislike allen?

    Quote Originally Posted by ying_su View Post
    (You guys know how hard is to present this manga to new people that will surely like it as it is now but need to read the poor art and all the initial cliché ruling in the first chapters??
    Please, dont blame me because of what i just said, when i started to read it years ago i simply loved it, but now i read too few mangas and I only continue reading DGM and 2 others.
    But DGM has won A LOT and matured --together with Hoshino-sensei, i guess--, since the beginning and Allen is the real proof of it.)
    All too well do I know that feeling. The early chapters are like a filter that weeds out people that can't survive the occasional sloppy chapter that don't make any sense. #takescover




    @Teeba: But if the Noah of destruction and Neah are separate, what is the name of the Noah of destruction? Unless by some odd chance it's Allen. D:

  2. #17
    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Teeba's Avatar
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    Re: does anyone else dislike allen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mango-chan View Post
    All too well do I know that feeling. The early chapters are like a filter that weeds out people that can't survive the occasional sloppy chapter that don't make any sense. #takescover

    @Teeba: But if the Noah of destruction and Neah are separate, what is the name of the Noah of destruction? Unless by some odd chance it's Allen. D:

    LOL I thought the first chapters were kind of sucky too. The pilot was so misleading, the only thing that made me go on to read more was because, holy cow, that's how akuma are made?!?

    Well, all the Noah have two names. They have a Noah name, which comes from their genes/memories of their past lives, and they have a human name. Wisely says himself that Tyki and Sheryl repress the Noah genes, which is why they still retain their original names. They are too attached to their human personalities, so to speak.

    I guess that for the sake of the story, it doesn't really matter anymore if the 14th Noah and Neah are two separate entities because they have merged and been presented as one. However, because I think the 14th and Neah used to be separate (like the rest of the Noah), Allen's struggle for his body is unique to what everyone else had to go through. Neah, as the host to a new and treachorous Noah, could not guarantee he would be reborn into a new body like the other 13 Noah would be, so he had to imprint someone manually.

    Personally, I don't think Allen's past will ever be explained to the point where we know who he is. At most he'll probably have to accept that he loves his individuality too much to merge with anything - The Noah, the Apocryptos, even to himself (if people believe that he and Neah are the same person).

    Sorry, I feel like my opinions change every five seconds. >_<

  3. #18
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity ca12nag3's Avatar
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    Re: does anyone else dislike allen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Teeba View Post
    Considering Kanda ended up being an exorcist "refitted" into a younger body, I wouldn't be surprised if the story was something similar with Allen. :P

    And yes, you are right about Tyki and Skin, they had two distinct entities that sort of merge together. Allen's Noah is different because to me, it seems like the 14th and Neah are more unified than all the other Noah members we have seen, besides the Earl. It can be argued that because the 14th and Neah have merged together, taking over Allen's body is purely for the sake of coming back from beyond the grave to finish what he started.

    I guess my logic is a bit odd, I consider the 14th (or, Noah of Destruction) as noah genes, and Neah as its former host. The two of them combined to form what we consider "the 14th" who is trying to gain control of Allen's body....I've never thought of Neah and Allen being the same person, and if they were the same person, then I don't see how that kind of plotline would resolve itself without Allen erasing his existence as Neah.

    I hope that makes sense. :S How I've seen Allen's progression in this manga is a bit personal, it would deeply upset me to find Allen realizing his persona was a lie and then suddenly have to own up to who he was previously (as Neah).
    You forget 1 thing, thats this:

    Tyki Mik (noah name:joido) noah of pleasure
    Cheryl (noah name: Dezaiasu) noah of desires
    Jasdevi (noah name: bondemu) noah of bonds
    Slin boric (noah name: Raasura) noah of wrath

    The only exceptions here are the earl and road, both of them dont seem to have a host name or we dont know it yet. Even tho we have seen them in action.

    Now about Nea we only know Nea + noah of destruction... Im just saying its like this

    Allen Walker (noah name: nea) noah of destruction.

    We also dont know how the noah show themselves inside the hosts minds , weve only seen this with Allen.

    (dont bug me bout name spellings btw i just took m from the Viz media translation)

    My initial thought is that Allen Walker is not the boy, but the 14th. That the boy is dead. And that thats what Allen was almost seeing and why he went into shock (as in regaining his memories). But thats just a theory ^^
    Last edited by ca12nag3; March 17, 2011 at 01:22 PM.

  4. #19
    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Teeba's Avatar
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    Re: does anyone else dislike allen?

    Quote Originally Posted by ca12nag3 View Post
    You forget 1 thing, thats this:

    Tyki Mik (noah name:joido) noah of pleasure
    Cheryl (noah name: Dezaiasu) noah of desires
    Jasdevi (noah name: bondemu) noah of bonds
    Slin boric (noah name: Raasura) noah of wrath

    The only exceptions here are the earl and road, both of them dont seem to have a host name or we dont know it yet. Even tho we have seen them in action.

    Now about Nea we only know Nea + noah of destruction... Im just saying its like this

    Allen Walker (noah name: nea) noah of destruction.

    We also dont know how the noah show themselves inside the hosts minds , weve only seen this with Allen.

    (dont bug me bout name spellings btw i just took m from the Viz media translation)

    My initial thought is that Allen Walker is not the boy, but the 14th. That the boy is dead. And that thats what Allen was almost seeing and why he went into shock (as in regaining his memories). But thats just a theory ^^
    I understand what you're saying. I guess it makes sense, but it sort of simplifies everything for me. Allen is a Noah and an exorcist, and unlike the other Noah members, Allen REALLY doesn't want to accept it. But if Allen is Neah, then how do you explain how the 14th/Neah implanted his memories into...himself? And regressed back into a child?

    Essentially what you're saying is that, Allen is not willing to accept that he actually IS Neah, right? Again, what I see happening is that, if this were the case, then Neah would have to accept that he is Allen just as much as Allen is Neah. You cannot say that Allen is "not that boy, but the 14th" without saying that the 14th is Allen too.

    Even purely in a theoretical sense, Allen still identifies as being a separate human being, and will continue to do so. Even if his whole existence is just a split personality created by Neah to deal with the trauma of that boy dying, Allen will push himself as being the dominant personality regardless, unless D.Gray-man ends in pure tragedy (which I have a hard time believing). This is because Allen values his personality much more than he has before, and he was willing to go as far as to starve himself just to maintain some level of control on his body. He doesn't want to give up his personality to the 14th Noah, much like how Tyki is reluctant to give him his. Actually, Allen being a split personality to Neah doesn't really change how he's been acting up until now, at least to me. The development of the Allen personality stays exactly the same.

    (Though I completely disagree with your theory. With Kanda, we got images of him remembering himself....as himself. Hoshino did this to show that Kanda was remembering who he used to be, not just that it happened. If Allen's case was also related to him having amnesia or not being able to remember who he really was, I think the hints for it would have been more explicit.)

    Again, I hope I make sense. xD

  5. #20
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity ca12nag3's Avatar
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    Re: does anyone else dislike allen?

    Im saying that Neah or Nea is the noah essence, and that Allen = the 14th. your seeing Neah as a person yet i see him as the essence.

    What makes matters more complicated is that all the noah used to be living beings like humans. Yet they died and reincarnate.

    Allen in this case = the 14th. Cross is the only one that talked about eroding and he would become the 14th. Well he never said how and why about the implantation. So its asumable that the boy is aready dead and all that remains is the noah.

    What many people want to believe is that the boy (Red) is still Allen. But you do realize that the name Allen comes from the dog mana had. and Allen took on the name Allen after the dog died.

    Cross even referenced to it in that flash, he didnt himself Allen *this is a significant clue to who he realy is*

    That sentence alone is a mayor clue. The boy, Allen didnt call himself Allen when they first met, and thats correct acording to the novel. In wich he is known as Red-redarm w/e. The dog that was with Mana was named Allen ^^.

    What i believe is the mistake Cross is talking about is that he mistook Allen for just a boy with the noah implanted in him, but he might actualy already be the 14th for a while now but suffering from amnesia or w/e.

    refr. p17 ch 203
    Last edited by ca12nag3; March 18, 2011 at 04:17 AM.

  6. #21
    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Teeba's Avatar
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    Re: does anyone else dislike allen?

    That really cleared up a lot with me. xD I guess we won't know until Hoshino decides to reveal more.

    But if you say Neah is the Noah essence/memory of whatever, similar to Skin and Tyki's encounters....how do you separate the Noah memory from the Noah host they occupy? Are you saying that Allen is becoming a Noah just like everyone else - born as the reincarnation of the 14th Noah, but just has forgotten his memories until now?

    I still think the mirror looks to both ways. Whether or not Allen was the boy or not, or simply the 14th with a case of amnesia...that still doesn't detract from him being Allen. I know you're saying that, because he never called himself Allen at first, this suggests that the 14th has been there the whole time, but, I guess I don't see how that would impact Allen's personality much? Either way, the 14th is going to have to realize that he has been having these strong Messiah feelings that have totally screwed up his plan for revenge. Again, just as much as Allen needs to accept that he's really the 14th, the 14th is going to accept that at one point, he was Allen, messiah-wannabee.

    Ca1nag3, can I ask, how does your theory on who Allen is relate to whether or not Allen's personality change makes him unlikable? I think its really interesting. xD

  7. #22
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity ca12nag3's Avatar
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    Re: does anyone else dislike allen?

    if Allen is realy the 14th all along, and he either forgot or reset. Then it will surely affect his personality, it kinda makes him a infiltrator in the order. It also takes away any posibility of him being stuck in the middle. as a victim.

    If hes the boy thats getting taken over by the noah inside him that would clearly mark him as a victim. This might gain him sympathy from some readers that will find it sad/tragical.

    (another part of fact is from Hoshinos oneshot, Zone. wich is the prototyp for DGM,

    In Zone Robin who is the hero. Is Allen in DGM. She is actualy the akuma inside her brother. Her brother signed a contract with the earl and took him over. Therefor the shell you see is not the boy but his sister inside ^^.

    This is partialy played out in the Alma arc where Almas soul is that of the girl. And it might be that the initial part of the person not realy being that person is still in place for Allen. Thus Allen realy is the noah and no longer that boy)

  8. #23
    MH Senpai MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Asclepius's Avatar
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    Re: does anyone else dislike allen?

    I still think of Neah as only the musician, not the Noah of destruction.
    I have this feeling that he is a second tier Noah, cause those images of the past only show us 12 or 13 noahs (when the Earl is with them), never 14. He is always apart.

    But, well, to show some love for Allen, i'm gonna use him in my avatar. And i love him with curly hair (and bandages), so sexy!

    Discuss the yaoi side of Shingeki no Kyojin and Kuroko no Basket at the Boys Love section.

  9. #24
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member chilibun's Avatar
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    Re: does anyone else dislike allen?

    Yes. I usually hate the prototypical hero characters like Allen, Naruto, etc. Its just feels so unrealistic and irrational at times. They'll jeopardize the world for the sake of self-imposed morals and just can't do what needs to be done. Of course, since its just a manga, everything always works out perfectly. But still, its so irrational and stupid. I much prefer the anti-hero characters like Kanda, Lelouch, Light Yagami (though he can be considered anti-villian depending on how you look at it), etc.

  10. #25
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member ying_su's Avatar
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    Re: does anyone else dislike allen?

    I'm feeling curious now: DOES anyone actually dislike Allen?
    I think we need a poll...


    TIMCANPY FOR THE WIN!!!

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  12. #26
    MH's Most High Quality Poster 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member earthforge's Avatar
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    Re: does anyone else dislike allen?

    First page is all the evidence you need. I liked Allen from the Suman Arc to before the Alma Arc. He was hardening, but then he suddenly fell back to being much more generous. That puzzled me. Why would a character be changing slowly and then suddenly pull back, with no rationale? It culminated in him sending away Kanda and Alma to die. It didn't seem to me as a strong choice, only as naivety.

    I understand why people like him. Who doesn't love a guy with a lovely chest who is kind and gentle and yet has the capacity to be such a bad ass over and over? But I just feel like his pull back into being kind and gentle from hardening ruined it for me. Only for me it seems, though.
    Avatar © Chelsea Gordon, author of Not Quite Normal.

  13. #27
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: does anyone else dislike allen?

    I think that it's pretty much visible. Compared to what Allen was like when the series started it is safe to say that he still was very naive (considering the things that he had already gone through).
    He looked at the war in a much too plain way, considering the Order to be the absolute good and the Noahs the seed of evil (which I did at first too ^^; ).
    But as the serie progresses he begins to get deeper into those dark secrets of the Order, he sees the suffering around him and was most affected I think by Suman's transformation, his near-death experience, the truth about Neah and Mana (Duh, what else?), the attack on the old HQ, Kanda's past and how the Order or rather Central treated him because of their fear of him.

    That doesn't mean that it is totaly the other way around but he understands that there are two sides of a coin. Just like Central has it's sick experiments, the Noah-Clan appears like a family.

    And Allen is now beginning to look at those two sides. No matter if Noah or member of the BO.

    I don't really think he has that much changed. He just matured.

  14. #28
    MH's Most Beautiful Member 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Naomidee's Avatar
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    Re: does anyone else dislike allen?

    Allen Walker from the early chapters is worlds different from these most recent chapters. I like the current Allen worlds better than the old one to be perfectly honest.

    Some people say that Allen is "flat" now and that he has less personality than in the first half? I think it's the opposite way around. Allen's initial unwavering politeness was (as the manga itself states) more of a mask than anything else. I do believe that Allen approves of having manners, but I think his gentleman act is just a guise. Underneath, Allen is just a down-to-Earth guy with a hero complex.

    I think his hero complex comes from not having any true, lasting friendships up until he joined the Order. He never really had parents, so that leaves a huge possibility for becoming detached... I think the undying and almost annoying politeness from the beginning is a sign of that inability to deeply connect with anyone. As Allen develops (or perhaps, just reveals) his true character, we see him become less formal and more comfortable with his friends like Lenalee and Johnny... Hell, even Kanda. And that's where the hero complex comes in. Now that he's finally found companionship torn down a bit of his shield, he feels a overcoming need to protect the people that are precious to him.

    For some reason, I haven't REALLY seen Allen let his guard down around Lavi. (I don't count the fight in the Ark as really connecting with Lavi...) I think the reason being is that Allen realizes Lavi has ulterior motives, being a Bookman. I'm hoping to see their wall come down in the future chapters.

    Ultimately, I think Allen has many dimensions now as opposed to this initial "nice guy" gig. We see him fighting and eventually trying to understand the so-called evil Noah inside his head. We see him emotionally exploding at the Apocrypho when he learns what happened to Cross. In the end, Allen always stands his own ground reguardless of what the Order believes and what the Noah believe. That's what makes him the best candidate for the third side: not letting The Black Order or the Noah Clan dictate his thought any longer.

    Sorry. Loooooooooong x_x
    Last edited by Naomidee; March 26, 2011 at 11:24 AM. Reason: left an idea unfinished. XD

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  16. #29
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member yukilove21's Avatar
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    Re: does anyone else dislike allen?

    Allen, personally, is my favorite character, after Kanda.
    I agree with Naomidee.

    You really can't keep your personality intact when you are in a war. It changes you.

    Allen is wearing a 'mask'. A mask that hides his true self. That's what Lena was pointing out in volume 17. (Is that right?)

    He has been through a lot too. (So has Kanda, Lavi, and Lenalady, but still .) Living without parents, living in the circus where no one liked him, living with a crazy Mana who thought he was a dog, Having seen Mana die, then having to go live with Cross, then he joined the Order. Yeah, it's just FINE for his personality to change.

    (Sorry if I am snarky, I just woke up.)


    Current obsessions: One Piece and D.Gray-man.

  17. #30
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
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    Frown Re: does anyone else dislike allen?

    I definitely agree with you all the way. I had exactly the same feeling. When I started with the series, I was really obsessed. Infact, I'm still obsessed with the earlier part of the series. But after the part where Crown Clown was innovated , I instantly lost my interest. Allen has really changed, in my opinion, he isn't unique anymore like he was when he was really kind and gentle. He is just another typical-badass-manga-protagonist now. I wouldn't call this change character development. It's more like character distortion. I even hate the change in his appearance. I feel his initial design was really decent and pretty.
    I really wish, we could have our real Allen back.....

    ---------- Post added at 12:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:09 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by clamche View Post
    Yeah, Allen is not the same anymore after the Kanda arc. I liked his personality and character in the beginning of the series, when things were simple and there was no 14th. Allen was strong and all, but his recent changes...,well , I don't like the way he is acting or thinking. The 14th makes thing even more complicated for Allen, i don't even know which traits of Allen's character are his own and which are from the !4th's influence. Allen was very sweet and funny and serious till the 14th came out. I mean now everything is messed and Allen is a martyr, acting so not-knowing-what-is -the-right-thing-to-do and so drama. I mean it is as if Allen has lost everything he had gained throughout the series.
    I still like him, but it is not the same. i hope Allen soon changes and begins to act all cool again. I just want him to do something more Allenish now. I think that the 14th is becoming the main character and Hoshino prefers to develop him more than Allen, who is put on the background.
    I loved Allen and I still do, but the thrill is gone. He still remains my N1 and most favorite anime character, but only the old one.
    Same here! I love the 'old' Allen. But I can't say much about the 'new' one. Damn I really miss the old Allen...

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