Yamamoto Genryūsai Shigekuni vs Suì-Fēng

[Deicide]

Yamamoto stomps, no explanation needed.

[freshseth83]

He'd get a headache from having to chase her around. Probably call her a kid and give her a timeout or something. Yama's to the extreme where him facing against ordinary captains is like captains facing against ordinary seated members. he wouldn't have to go so far as kill her. He'd knock her out. As fast as she is, I believe Yama is as fast or faster. He is after all the captain commander. If my theory is right, since he started the academy, he might have chosen who the first captains were. They might not have been the first shinigami- but as far as captains go, for divisions, I think he established that. Since it says he founded the academy. I donno. But I believe he's the master in every area, except maybe the kido class and the technology and the stealth arts, whatever it's called.

[Jackk]

Considering that there were more captain commanders before Yamamoto, I seriously doubt that Yama was the one who choose the first captains for each division....

[freshseth83]

That was an error that said he was the such and such number captain commander. So there's no proof of that.

EDIT- in the bleach book of souls, it says the Gotei 13 was founded by Yama. And in chapter 394, it states that he's been the captain commander for the last 1000years at least. http://ju-ni.net/gallery/index.php?d...h-ch394-06.png

[Buzz Killington]

Yes but at the same time, this kinda directly contradicts that Yama's the sole Captain Commander does it not?

http://ju-ni.net/gallery/index.php?d...-vol25-178.png

[freshseth83]

Where in my comment do you see "sole captain commander"?

Again, I said in the bleach book of souls it says that Yama was the FOUNDER of the Gotei 13. I didn't say he was the first captain commander. The only thing that can explain that is Kubo messed up or the gotei 13 was something before Yama. Why would it say Yama founded the gotei 13 and the academy then say "passed through generations of the commander of the Gotei 13? It's weird to say the least. Then there's no book on how to make the royal key, but Aizen found out how to by a reference from when the key was made, which is when? Currently there's little to go by to say that there was an organized squad of 13 courts before Yama. There could have been, but was it the 'gotei 13' or was it just a group of high ranking shinigami headed by one person- the captain commander?

[Buzz Killington]

Where in my comment do you see "sole captain commander"?

Considering that there were more captain commanders before Yamamoto, I seriously doubt that Yama was the one who choose the first captains for each division....

That was an error that said he was the such and such number captain commander. So there's no proof of that.

You pretty much implied there was no proof there were Captain Commanders before Yamamoto, so I provided evidence to the contrary. As far as semantics go, I don't think you need to have said specifically "sole" Captain Commander, seeing as the comment you responded to, Jackk's, didn't say anything about "Such and such number CC's", just that there were more. So it essentially boils down to the same thing whether you pay attention to pedantics or not

Could Kubo have forgot and/or retconned this detail? Possibly. We have proof that he's done it before.

Anyway, more evidence seems to suggest that yeah, Kubo kinda messed that up as far as CC's go. Why would Aizen refer to Yama as the very history of Soul Society, for example?

[Jackk]

That was an error that said he was the such and such number captain commander. So there's no proof of that.

Except I wasn't referring to that.

I was referring to this: http://ju-ni.net/gallery/index.php?d...-vol25-178.png

Yama said that the location of the royal key is passed by through successive generations of the gotei 13's commander via oral tradition. And he was the captain commander for the past 1000 years. There were others before that. You know, it's hard to pass down something like the location of an all powerful key to the Royal realm without more than one Captain commander...

EDIT- in the bleach book of souls, it says the Gotei 13 was founded by Yama. And in chapter 394, it states that he's been the captain commander for the last 1000years at least. http://ju-ni.net/gallery/index.php?d...h-ch394-06.png

I know Yama founded the shinigami academy about 2100 years ago, but can you link where it was stated that he founded the Gotei 13? It would not make a whole lot of sense for the first databook to say that... unless, of course, it's a mistranslation in the databook or Kubo did a LOLretcon in the manga because there were clearly other captain commanders before Yama. As pointed out already, this link kinda contradicts Yama being the founder.... http://ju-ni.net/gallery/index.php?d...-vol25-178.png

Then there's no book on how to make the royal key, but Aizen found out how to by a reference from when the key was made, which is when?

Huh? Aizen found out because there was a document in Soul Society's library with that information; it was actually documented apparently. http://ju-ni.net/gallery/index.php?d...-vol25-175.png

[Henry J. Gloval]

I belive Aizen used his bankai powers and Edo Tensei-ed the first CC and a bunch of other legendary ninjas, I mean shinigami. Then he put them under KS and them about the Key.
Seriously, I read at the Bleach wiki that he founded the Academy and G13. Given that he is around 2k years old, I was like WTF? Did people die before that time and be purified, or there was just no official military forces. The Soul King is older than that, and who would have garded him? Some random shinigami? No way.:-| Also there is the question of the noble houses. Kuchiki is traditionaly given the 6 division? Given that Ginrei is at least a 1k old given his looks, and Byakuya inherited his position as captain, and he is the 27th(?) head of Kuchiki family how come Yama made the G13? Or what was the purpose of the Noble families in the past? Let us say each Head lived for 500 years. That makes a 13k years of Kuchiki history. Probably all the houses have that much or at least half of that time worth of existence. Kubo should really tie all the loose ends. I'm dying to know this! Maybe there is an another databook on the way...

[freshseth83]

Except I wasn't referring to that.

I was referring to this: http://ju-ni.net/gallery/index.php?d...-vol25-178.png

Yama said that the location of the royal key is passed by through successive generations of the gotei 13's commander via oral tradition. And he was the captain commander for the past 1000 years. There were others before that. You know, it's hard to pass down something like the location of an all powerful key to the Royal realm without more than one Captain commander...



I know Yama founded the shinigami academy about 2100 years ago, but can you link where it was stated that he founded the Gotei 13? It would not make a whole lot of sense for the first databook to say that... unless, of course, it's a mistranslation in the databook or Kubo did a LOLretcon in the manga because there were clearly other captain commanders before Yama. As pointed out already, this link kinda contradicts Yama being the founder.... http://ju-ni.net/gallery/index.php?d...-vol25-178.png



Huh? Aizen found out because there was a document in Soul Society's library with that information; it was actually documented apparently. http://ju-ni.net/gallery/index.php?d...-vol25-175.png

Why are you replying to me? I didn't state anything against you. I said the databook says he founded the gotei 13, then I said there was no proof that there was 13 or such odd number captain commanders before him. I didn't say he was the first. I said the error in the translation was that he said he was the 13th captain commander. What the correct translation was stating, was that he is the captain commander of the gotei 13. the link shows you that. And what are you talking about with Aizen? I just said the same damn thing and you wanna rehash it like you're correct and I was wrong. You tend to do that alot. This is why I don't reply to your comments usually. You always wanna make it seem like you were right and someone else was wrong.

This is what I said- Then there's no book on how to make the royal key, but Aizen found out how to by a reference from when the key was made, which is when? You see I asked a question of WHEN? As in WHEN was the royal key made, from what time period. How is that statement not the same thing you just said?

I said my theory was that he fouded the Gotei 13, I never said he was the first captain commander. What is your reply about? To prove what? That Jacck knows everything whatever freshseth says is wrong? Cus that's all I see from you. I don't have a link currently to the book of souls, but it was mentioned that the captain commander was the founder of the gotei 13. You're stating that either it was a translation error or he went back on what he previously stated... this is what I said The only thing that can explain that is Kubo messed up or the gotei 13 was something before Yama. Why would it say Yama founded the gotei 13 and the academy then say "passed through generations of the commander of the Gotei 13? It's weird to say the least. How does that warrant a reply from you when I just said the same thing you did? I get it. If Jacck doesn't say it, it's not correct.

You can have anyone you want agree with your post, I posted the facts and said the same shit you just did. And when I find a link to the databook I'll show you what it says.

[ShootToKill]

My guess is that initially the heads of the noble households were the original "Captain Commanders" - I mean nobility must have meant something more at some point... now it just seems to mean you're rich and have a slightly higher probability of being born powerful (Byakuya, Kaien, Yoruichi). Over time leadership developed into something more "strength" based, and Yama founded the Shinigami Academy, and the whole system became structured differently. I don't know whether the Gotei 13 existed before Yama, or whether it was some different system entirely. This is just a theory by the way, I'm not going by any facts. But I definitely don't believe there was no organized militia in SS before Yama came along.

[freshseth83]

I found it on Bleach wikia- and before you go off and say 'it's a fan modified site' just look at the link- it's from the databook itself which states- First Company Captain Genryusai Shigenkuni Yamamoto is the founder and Captain-General of the Thirteen Companies http://images.wikia.com/bleach/en/im..._of_souls_.png

I'm not trying to brag, but I knew what I read. I had this book a long time ago, back in 2007 I think. Bought it from the book store, it's lost now but I knew what I read.

[Henry J. Gloval]

@Shoot to kill
I agree with you on all points, but this is just a guessing game right now. I wonder if Kubo will ever elaborate on the history of SS. To me it seems that they are an integral part of all existance. They are death gods after all. They should be as old as humanity, if not older. Their purpose seems a tad bit important, so a great level of organized shinigami must have existed from the start. Noble houses may well originate from the Soul King, they were given the responsibility of making sure things work. Like one house is assigned to protecting humans from hollows, other for maintaining order and such. Then a crisis happened and Yama approached the Head houses with a proposal. He makes the G13 but gives them some power too. 2. division goes to Shinhoin, 6. to Kuchiki... Dont really know. Wild guesses.
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Freshseth, I would have believed you even without wikia citing. No need for you to get annoyed and search for proof. You have no reason to lie, I also think I've read something along those lines, all is cool. I still applaud your effort and the way you stand up for your opinions, even if you do sound somewhat harsh. Keep it on! B-)

[freshseth83]

Nah I'm not annoyed, that's for amateurs! hah, I was just stating in my other post that I would find the link and post it here. So I found it, and posted it! That's all. I even said I wasn't trying to brag or nothing. I just remembered reading it when I had the book, so I was trying to find the page to prove that's what it says.

[Henry J. Gloval]

Cool. It seemed at first that you would rub it into our face once you find it.
We belive you! Just dont shoot! JK, you weren't that scary.:-D Great find by all means.
Now, what are the chances Kubo was hyping Yama and overdid it with all that data. Now he sits in his room and thinks of a way how to fix it...:-/
Seriously, as if the strongest zan, highest reiatsu, wisdom, huge physical power, his age, founding the Academy was not enough? What is next? He wins the Tournament with just shikai? Actually, yes Go old man!