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Thread: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

  1. #181
    Intl Translator MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted juUnior's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    I agree with kkck - its one way to escape genjutsu in general, and its another way to escape genjutsu cast by none other than Itachi himself. That's a big difference, imo
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  2. #182
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by juUnior View Post
    I agree with kkck - its one way to escape genjutsu in general, and its another way to escape genjutsu cast by none other than Itachi himself. That's a big difference, imo
    I agree to but using Naruto as a gauging meter is wrong. Naruto has 0 feats when it comes to genjutsu. So he used the worse example he could have find :P
    Now Kurenai... Well let's just say compared to the big boys she is nothing even in genjutsu.
    Sasuke was able to brake tsukiyomi with nothing but his normal sharingan eye (he would count as a one of the "big boys").
    Now a normal genjutsu from Itachi used on Kakashi should not work.
    Still Naruto has the best there is vs genjutsu, clones. As long as he has 100 of those out its imposible to get him. Hell Itachi got tricked from 1 clone of Kakashi's. I would say its not imposible to get around this.

  3. #183
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member MonsterEnvy's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    So how is Gedo Mazo any diferent then Amaterasu? Personaly i belive Amaterasu is even better as it does not make you immobile. What if they distract the dragon with a clone and then they sneak up on Nagato?

    So Gedo Mazo is not allowed but Amaterasu is? How is Gedo Mazo harder to dodge then Amaterasu? How is Gedo Mazo even better then Amaterasu?
    because it can summon more then One Dragon at a time


    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    I agree to but using Naruto as a gauging meter is wrong. Naruto has 0 feats when it comes to genjutsu. So he used the worse example he could have find :P
    Now Kurenai... Well let's just say compared to the big boys she is nothing even in genjutsu.
    Sasuke was able to brake tsukiyomi with nothing but his normal sharingan eye (he would count as a one of the "big boys").
    Now a normal genjutsu from Itachi used on Kakashi should not work.
    Still Naruto has the best there is vs genjutsu, clones. As long as he has 100 of those out its imposible to get him. Hell Itachi got tricked from 1 clone of Kakashi's. I would say its not imposible to get around this.
    Orochimaru was going to break out of Itachi's genjutsu as well before Itachi ended it and chopped his hand off
    Last edited by MonsterEnvy; April 03, 2011 at 02:06 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  4. #184
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member MonsterEnvy's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jdw View Post
    Was going to break out? That implies success. Orochimaru would have tried. Can't say he would have been successful at it.
    Oro has a 5 in genjutsu and that Genjutsu was fairly weak he was going to break out but got his hand sliced off first so it really does not change anything
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  5. #185
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    I actually think Orochimaru did attempt to break out, but simply wasn't skilled enough/powerful enough to do so. We see while paralyzed he starts to struggle (squiggly lines all around his body), but the most he can manage is lifting a hand.

  6. #186
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MonsterEnvy View Post
    because it can summon more then One Dragon at a time<hr noshade size="1">


    Orochimaru was going to break out of Itachi's genjutsu as well before Itachi ended it and chopped his hand off
    I sugest you go back and look for the links i posted. It can only summon 1 dragon. This is not the first time i had to addres this.

    Also in Oro's case it was a normal genjutsu so it was not that impresive.

  7. #187
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member MonsterEnvy's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    I actually think Orochimaru did attempt to break out, but simply wasn't skilled enough/powerful enough to do so. We see while paralyzed he starts to struggle (squiggly lines all around his body), but the most he can manage is lifting a hand.
    but he was going to break out of it as he is raising his hands Itachi just cut one off its how he won the fight
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  8. #188
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    You don't know that. All you know is he was TRYING to break out. When Naruto was Genjutsu'd by Itachi, he lifted his hands inorder to focus chakra, and it didn't do anything. For all you know, the same thing would've happened to Orochimaru.

    Granted, Orochimaru has far better genjutsu expertise, meaning he can escape easier. But still, you don't know enough about Orochimaru's situation to guarantee he was gonna escape.
    Last edited by ninjabot; April 03, 2011 at 04:56 PM.

  9. #189
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member MonsterEnvy's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    You don't know that. All you know is he was TRYING to break out. When Naruto was Genjutsu'd by Itachi, he lifted his hands inorder to focus chakra, and it didn't do anything. For all you know, the same thing would've happened to Orochimaru.
    yes but unlike Naruto Orochimaru is good at genjutsu
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  10. #190
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    But how good? He has a 5 in genjutsu, meaning his potential is maxed when it comes to it. Even with his genjutsu expertise being at it's peak he was still struggling.

    That either means Itachi's genjutsu is so powerful that even experts pale in comparison to him... or that Naruto and Orochimaru have the same level of Genjutsu escaping ability. Which one makes more sense? Keep in mind the difference in the Genjutsu that was cast on Naruto and the one cast on Orochimaru. Itachi didn't even need his Sharingan to cast genjutsu on Naruto. Just a finger.

  11. #191
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member MonsterEnvy's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    But how good? He has a 5 in genjutsu, meaning his potential is maxed when it comes to it. Even with his genjutsu expertise being at it's peak he was still struggling.

    That either means Itachi's genjutsu is so powerful that even experts pale in comparison to him... or that Naruto and Orochimaru have the same level of Genjutsu escaping ability. Which one makes more sense? Keep in mind the difference in the Genjutsu that was cast on Naruto and the one cast on Orochimaru. Itachi didn't even need his Sharingan to cast genjutsu on Naruto. Just a finger.
    but there was nothing to show that Oro was stuggling he did not even get a chance to lift his hands up before Itachi took it off

    and honestly the 1st choice makes more sense to me Itachi so far has been shown to be on a diffrent level then other genjutsu users with a 5 in it
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  12. #192
    Vintage Reboot 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity vintagemistakes's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    To be perfectly honest guys, I wouldn't put much stock in the databook values. They are a nice supplemental thing, but in reality, carry no weight in the actual story. I think the only time I remember anything remotely close to these states was in the Chunin exam when Kabuto flashed those cards? Going off the actual manga seems to be the better route when discussing character strengths and weaknesses. Oro, for all intents and purposes, utterly fails against the Sharingan. It doesn't matter whether or not his stat is 'off the charts' or not... he is going to fail. It's just his built in weakness... a kin to Deidara being weak against people with lightning based affinities.

    Though, even with that said, I would agree that Itachi's genjutsu abilities are far superior to anyone else i.e. harder to deal with and on a different level.

  13. #193
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by chilibun View Post
    1) I'm specifically talking about Itachi's Tsukiyomi. Its effects are instantaneous because it controls the perception of time. You can't break out of it unless you are Sasuke who has an anti-genjustsu weapon, the sharingan, can engage in genjutsu battle, and an unbreakable will to kill his brother. Anybody else will most likely be KO'd in 1 second if they don't have knowledge of it. Also, the I only remember Tsukiyomi being able to KO anybody. Basic sharingan genjutsus can create illusions but not damage the mind. I'm pretty sure of this, but correct me if I'm wrong.
    All Sharingan genjutsus are instantaneous. The difference with Itachi's Tsukuyomi is that he can make the effect seemly last longer then real time. Even if it can't be broken out of, a strong enough opponent could endure it to some measure. We saw Kakashi and Danzo do so. Technically, we have never seen any Tsukuyomi take out a person in one shot. As for the normal Sharingan taking someone out, Sasuke took Shi out in an instant. Kakashi also took two Root ninjas out in an instant. So for all intents and purpose, the danger of Tsukuyomi is already present with the normal Sharingan's genjutsu.

    Quote Originally Posted by chilibun View Post
    2) Characters may not have a direct counter to it, but they can fight with caution like using clones, constant movement, put constant pressure, etc. Without knowledge, opponents would just burst into flames without having a chance being able to defend themselves.
    Wouldn't they be fighting that way anyway? Even still, knowing about Amaterasu isn't gonna make it any easier to dodge as oppose to seeing the signs.

    Quote Originally Posted by chilibun View Post
    3) Same thing. Characters might not have a direct counter to being warped, but they can try to avoid close range combat, use clones, etc. I'd just hate to see "Madara wins by phasing through punch, grab from behind, and warped" in every fight, even though thats probably what will happen.
    Most of ninjas would employ those methods in a fight anyway. Madara would still need to get close to his target and we have seen it's not that easy in the few fights we have witness.

    Quote Originally Posted by chilibun View Post
    7) You don't need to be cut by Hanzou's weapon to be poisoned. He is phyiscally toxic and breathes poison. Thats why he has to wear that mask. Without knowledge, opponents can die from making physical contact (like punching him) or breathing the same air if he takes off his mask. Also, Hanzo and co. were chasing the Allies. The Salamander was able to gas them from a distance so must travel relatively fast.
    Well Hanzou wouldn't take off his mask because of the risk it poses to himself. As far as we have seen of his fighting style, he prefers to use his kama and salamander to do the poisoning as oppose to the risk of removing his mask. The salamander released a pretty big cloud of gas, so they still could have been some distances away. Not to mention that Hanzou didn't seem to be in that much of a rush considering he was relaying on his salamander to move and I can't imagine his salamander moving that fast.

  14. #194
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MonsterEnvy
    but there was nothing to show that Oro was stuggling he did not even get a chance to lift his hands up before Itachi took it off

    and honestly the 1st choice makes more sense to me Itachi so far has been shown to be on a diffrent level then other genjutsu users with a 5 in it

    Yeah, there was. When he hits him with the Genjutsu he staggers, and we see him with squiggly lines around his body, showing him struggling to move. And throughout his struggling, the only thing he could manage is to (slowly) lift one hand.



    Quote Originally Posted by vintagemistakes
    To be perfectly honest guys, I wouldn't put much stock in the databook values. They are a nice supplemental thing, but in reality, carry no weight in the actual story. I think the only time I remember anything remotely close to these states was in the Chunin exam when Kabuto flashed those cards? Going off the actual manga seems to be the better route when discussing character strengths and weaknesses. Oro, for all intents and purposes, utterly fails against the Sharingan. It doesn't matter whether or not his stat is 'off the charts' or not... he is going to fail. It's just his built in weakness... a kin to Deidara being weak against people with lightning based affinities.

    I agree that the databooks aren't the end-all beat-all of power ranking, but I also don't think they should be ignored. The statistics are to be held as proof of a ninja's skill in a certain area relative to themselves. For example, if we wanted to look at how much faster Sasuke's gotten, we could look at databook 2 speed stats and compare then to the databook 3 speed stats to know just how much faster he's really gotten.

    We could even compare his stats to other ninja to a small extent. If both ninja are on the same "level", then using databook stats to differentiate them actually works. Since the two ninja are on the same level, it makes sense to assume that their speed, strength, intelligence, and stamina are all pretty close. The databook however, tells us more accurately who's stronger in what area. Now, if we compared a Genin's stats to a Jounin, that's a different story. Until that Genin shows feats that places him on the level of a jounin, his stats can't be compared to a Jounin because they're on a far different level.

    Long story short, that 5 in Genjutsu that Orochimaru has means that he, a sannin and Kage level opponent has reached his limit in Genjutsu expertise. Itachi, also a Kage level opponent with a 5, has reached his limit in Genjutsu expertise. It just so happens his limit was higher than Orochimaru's.

  15. #195
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    I don't understant what is so import if Oro got out of genjutsu or not... If Itachi has enough time to chop off you head before you get out what does it matters?

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