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Thread: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

  1. #1981
    Registered User 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member jdw's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by zerocooldx View Post
    Why would he have to close his eye? Amaterasu burns on its own. Besides Itachi basically set a good portion of a forest on fire in one sweep of Amaterasu while "chasing" Sasuke. And Sasuke set the Hachibi on fire in one burst as well. Point being that a single burst of Amaterasu can cover a very large surface area. So I don't think a bundle of hair, no matter what shape it takes, is going to do anything against Amaterasu.
    The forest didn't have defensive jutsu and an the ability to try to prevent the fire from spreading by removing trees. If Jiraiya is capable of defending with growing hair, all he would have to do is cut off the part on fire and grow more as needed. Even if Amaterasu keep burning the hair after it is cut off, who cares?

    He can use a kunai, or maybe he can "grind" it off with Rasengan, lol.

    Naruto War Tracker: 2 days of combat, 63 chapters, 40,000 alliance soldiers lost (50%). Significant alliance characters lost: 0

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    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bhasty View Post
    That's really the problem is, itachi has the tsukuyomi to cast on jiraiya and yet he just using a babe, jiraiya's weakness, to lure jiraiya out..

    If itachi isn't afraid fighting jiraiya then why the heck he never fight him head on.? He can use his tsukuyomi to break jiraiya's spirit, and yet he just using a safe attack to lure jiraiya..
    Yet Itachi only used one backup. Itachi is the kind of man to be very cautious, he wouldn't just leave one trap for Jiraiya and risk Jiraiya's interference.



    [quote]Itachi can break jiraiya's spirit in an instant and yet he never done that.. He just using a sexy babe to lure jiraiya out of their way.. Itachi admitted that jiraiya is stronger than him and kisame, infact, itachi's strategy/plan is to use a sexy babe because that's jiraiya's weakness.. That's the weakness on the man for whom they admitted as stronger than the both of them..[/quote
    He only used a woman to lure Jiraiya out of the way. Why not have her attack Jiraiya or have more women lure Jiraiya? Why not have someone else attack Jiraiya or keep him busy?

    Kisame repeated that again, and Itachi never denied nor confirmed that he could beat Jiraiya, he just indicated Jiraiya would be a very tough challenge. Kisame indicated that Itachi could take on Jiraiya when they were running away, but Itachi never denied that like he did before they met Jiraiya.

    If Itachi wanted, he could have just used Amaterasu on Jiraiya, he could have used Tsukuyomi, he could have even put Jiraiya under genjutsu, which Jiraiya couldn't break out of easy since he admitted to be bad at genjutsu. Jiraiya had no knowledge about Mangekyo Sharingan or Amaterasu at the time, and Itachi could have had Kisame distract Jiraiya.


    Quote Quote:
    AS in immediately.? that's an accidental fight.. Itachi doesn't want to fight them because he don't want to kill them. But when kurenai use his genjutsu on kisame and itachi, itachi was on the "killing intent" on kurenai, infact, kurenai is suppose to be dead if he wasn't biten his lipz.
    We have no idea where Itachi was going to slash Kurenai. It could have been a nonkilling slash, or Itachi could have done what Haku did and put her in a deathlike trance. If Itachi wanted to kill Kurenai and Asuma, he wouldn't have talked, he'd have gone straight to action, and he wouldn't have pleaded for Kurenai and Asuma to go away or tried to avoid fighting. If Itachi could slash off Orochimaru's hand quickly, then he could have cut off Kurenai's head quickly.




    Quote Quote:
    Tsukuyomi isn't a one-shot kill jutsu.. and i think you're the one who failed to notice that after itachi's tsukuyomi, his left eye was hurt. He cover his left eye the way he cover at his fight against sasuke when sasuke broke his tsukuyomi.. Itachi can't kill kakashi at that time because he feel the side effect of tsukuyomi.. nothing more, nothing less..
    The English translation had Kisame saying he was shocked Kakashi was still alive, I think.

    Where did he cover his left eye? Both of his eyes were still open, but Itachi was tired. He never gave any indication his left eye hurt, that was only against Sasuke, and when Sasuke broke out of his Tsukuyomi. He never felt any side effect from Tsukuyomi other than being tired, but either he or Kisame could have still killed Kakashi without much problem, as well as the other two. Or, Itachi could have done Mangekyo Sharingan, which no one would have expected.



    Quote Quote:
    yes you are.. You're thinking so deep to satisfy your imagination/assumption..

    and from the bold part, So we're incapable of thinking deeper, looking underneath the underneath just to satisfied our imagination.?

    Well, maybe i'm incapable in thinking deeper and looking underneath the underneath just like the way your assumption is, but the thing is, mine is different from yours..
    Right. Imagination/assumption like Itachi covering his eye after using Tsukuyomi against Kakashi? Here's the proof Itachi's eyes were open and not covered. And while I do assume on some stuff, I can at least back it up with the manga.

    Yep. No one who says Itachi's telling the truth is looking at why he said what he did. They just think he said it because he really believed it when it could be for other reasons. Itachi also indicated Jiraiya would be a major challenge, not that he'd lose after Kisame said Itachi could have taken on Jiraiya. You assume way more than I do, many which are ridiculous and almost can't be backed up, like window being Amaterasu'd and not the flesh. Some of your assumptions actually go against manga facts.

    At least with Itachi, it can be backed up by what we saw. Jiraiya had no knowledge of Amaterasu or Mangekyo, Itachi could have taken him out if he chose to. Jiraiya also was bad at genjutsu, which he himself said, so Itachi could have done basic genjutsu or even Tsukuyomi, which Jiraiya most likely couldn't break out of. If Kakashi, a Sharingan wielder whose genjutsu skills are good, couldn't do it, Jiraiya wouldn't be able to either. I said Itachi could (not is) be a sensor and backed it up with feats in the manga.

    Plus, why deny what Shi said about Raikage's speed in comparison to Minato's, who'd have no reason to lie, but accept Itachi's statement about how he and Kisame would do against Jiraiya, when Itachi was known to be a liar?

    Quote Originally Posted by hakuthehedgehog View Post
    Of course Amaterasu burns through everything, but if Jiraya could anticipate that Itachi would do something, he could go on the defensive and create a hair lion and use to defend himself: Amaterasu would take time to burn through it, and Itachi eventually would have to close his eye.
    If Sasuke was staring at Jiraiya's hair, I don't think it'd take much time at all. Most of the time when we saw Amaterasu burn something slowly, it was when the wielder wasn't focusing on it. If Sasuke focused on the samurai who got hit with Amaterasu, then Amaterasu would have probably taken him out.

    Quote Originally Posted by DementedKirby View Post
    If your clothes catch fire, you can take them off before you get consumed in the fire yourself. Jiraiya can use his hair, and just extend it and cut it and extend it again to regain the length. My argument was Jiraiya's superior experience and skill against Sasuke. However, if it was Jiraiya against Itachi, as much as I love the old, pervy bastard, he doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell against Itachi. Itachi's always two steps ahead of his opponent. Itachi humiliatingly owned Orochimaru. And Orochimaru ain't a dumb ninja. If it were Jiraiya vs. Itachi then it's a whole 'nother story. Itachi ain't just some crony wielding a Mangekyou Sharingan. He's frickin' Itachi wielding the Mangekyou.

    As for Itachi holding his eye after using Tsukoyomi and then getting weakened after using Amaterasu shortly afterward, we don't know for exactly how long Itachi's been ill. He could've been sick during that period in time already and his sickness limited his stamina. If Itachi eliminated the entire Uchiha clan (even if he had the help of a decrepit Madara), he no doubt spammed his Mangekyou to do so. He even used Tsukoyomi against Sasuke in the end and he didn't even so much as flinch afterwards. So a battle weary Itachi, after eliminating the final members of his clan, still had enough juice left to Tsukoyomi Sasuke and then flee. Clearly, if Itachi had to clutch his eyes that day he visited Konoha, then he must've surely been ill then.

    A healthy Itachi in this tournament is a top class contender who I have a hard time seeing fall to some non-astrally epically broken ninja.
    I don't think Itachi spammed his Mangekyo otherwise he'd have been blinder than he was against Sasuke. Sasuke spammed his Mangekyo and was just as blind as Itachi, if not more or less. Plus, we saw Itachi tired after using Tsukuyomi on Kakashi, if he really did spam his Mangekyo then he'd have been very exhausted. It could be likely that Tobi did most of the work.

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  4. #1983
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    Why would Jiraiya use the hair jutsu as a defense against Amaterasu, if he doesn't have knowledge of it?

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    Registered User 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member jdw's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    People can prepare to use defenses even if they do not know of amaterasu. If you are a shinobi in a fight, you kinda have to be aware that attacking exists, right? If someone is standing across from you with the intent to kill, preparation could be useful. hakuthehedgehog said that Jiraiya could prepare his defense in anticipation of Itachi doing "something"

    Quote Originally Posted by hakuthehedgehog View Post
    Of course Amaterasu burns through everything, but if Jiraya could anticipate that Itachi would do something, he could go on the defensive and create a hair lion and use to defend himself: Amaterasu would take time to burn through it, and Itachi eventually would have to close his eye.

    Naruto War Tracker: 2 days of combat, 63 chapters, 40,000 alliance soldiers lost (50%). Significant alliance characters lost: 0

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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    Itachi can do anything, the hair jutsu isn't an appropriate defense against certain jutsu. It's unlikely IMO Jiraiya would just use it in preparation for something if he doesn't know what the nature of that something is.
    Last edited by En Yang Ji; July 05, 2011 at 07:21 PM.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted zerocooldx's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jdw View Post
    The forest didn't have defensive jutsu and an the ability to try to prevent the fire from spreading by removing trees. If Jiraiya is capable of defending with growing hair, all he would have to do is cut off the part on fire and grow more as needed. Even if Amaterasu keep burning the hair after it is cut off, who cares?

    He can use a kunai, or maybe he can "grind" it off with Rasengan, lol.
    This is the only place where an argument that hair is going to be a defense for fire can be created and somehow entertained. So what Jiraiya is going suddenly going to pull an A and become fast and quick enough to react to Amaterasu and grow his hair out enough to avoid getting trapped? No one besides A has been able to react quickly enough as to not get hit with it. Sasuke fight exuded, unless you wanna make an argument that Itachi really meant to kill him and whatnot. Which i hear you like to do now. Anyways I'm sure for this debate Jiraiya will become fast and quick enough to "defend" against a blast of Amaterasu with his hair, i can't believe i even just typed those words. But moving on.

    So then what happens then? Itachi keeps launching Amaterasu while Jiraiya keeps regrowing his hair? Yeah thats going to work. I mean its not like Itachi can take control of the flames from the cut off parts of the hair and completely surround Jiraiya while hes playing hair dresser. Or better yet he could just poke that hairball with his sword of Totsuka. Or even close the gap after launching an Amaterasu and get Jiraiya in a gen-jutsu either via Sharingan or hand gen-jutsu. The list goes on and on about how easily Jiraiya's hair defense would be shattered. But like i said this is the only place where such an argument can be debated. The force of troll is just too great.

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    Registered User 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member jdw's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by zerocooldx View Post
    This is the only place where an argument that hair is going to be a defense for fire can be created and somehow entertained. So what Jiraiya is going suddenly going to pull an A and become fast and quick enough to react to Amaterasu and grow his hair out enough to avoid getting trapped? No one besides A has been able to react quickly enough as to not get hit with it. Sasuke fight exuded, unless you wanna make an argument that Itachi really meant to kill him and whatnot. Which i hear you like to do now. Anyways I'm sure for this debate Jiraiya will become fast and quick enough to "defend" against a blast of Amaterasu with his hair, i can't believe i even just typed those words. But moving on.

    So then what happens then? Itachi keeps launching Amaterasu while Jiraiya keeps regrowing his hair? Yeah thats going to work. I mean its not like Itachi can take control of the flames from the cut off parts of the hair and completely surround Jiraiya while hes playing hair dresser. Or better yet he could just poke that hairball with his sword of Totsuka. Or even close the gap after launching an Amaterasu and get Jiraiya in a gen-jutsu either via Sharingan or hand gen-jutsu. The list goes on and on about how easily Jiraiya's hair defense would be shattered. But like i said this is the only place where such an argument can be debated. The force of troll is just too great.
    Itachi cannot keep launching Amaterasu even if he wanted to. For him that is basically committing Seppuku. His meager chakra will not permit it. Furthermore, I am not sure if, outside of Sasuke, A is the only person to react fast enough to prevent Amaterasu. The manga seemed to indicate that Gaara defended against it quite well using a sand defense. You can take a look at the chapter and come up with your own conclusion, though my suggestion would be to read and view more carefully. Enjoy.


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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted zerocooldx's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jdw View Post
    Itachi cannot keep launching Amaterasu even if he wanted to. For him that is basically committing Seppuku. His meager chakra will not permit it. Furthermore, I am not sure if, outside of Sasuke, A is the only person to react fast enough to prevent Amaterasu. The manga seemed to indicate that Gaara defended against it quite well using a sand defense. You can take a look at the chapter and come up with your own conclusion, though my suggestion would be to read and view more carefully. Enjoy.

    I already gave like 5 ways Itachi beats that. But keep up the troll. It'll work...eventually....maybe.

    ---------- Post added at 08:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:34 PM ----------

    So hair beats Amaterasu and...um...borrowing a pair of sunglasses from the Aburame clan is going to beat Tsukuyomi? Don't be shy, i'm sure you can make that one work as well. You are on a roll. If only the rest of the shinobi world knew that the MS gets countered by fashion.

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  13. #1989
    Registered User 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member jdw's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by zerocooldx View Post
    I already gave like 5 ways Jiraiya wins. But keep up the troll. It'll work...eventually....maybe.
    It is fine if you call me a troll, but stuff you say keeps sounding like you are unfamiliar with the manga. Here I show you someone defending against Amaterasu with a moving external defense, after you said no one but A and Sasuke have been fast enough to avoid being hit, and at best you come up with "troll." Again, it is fine if you call me a troll, but I think the truth is that I just know more than you so it is hard for you to keep up.

    When Amaterasu hit that samurai, it did not burn through his armor instantly and fry him alive, it burned for a while, long enough for him to burn for a while and then escape unharmed, thanks to Kankurou and Temari. Jiraiya's hair jutsu are not just hair you find on the floor after getting a haircut, they are jutsu and have qualities of their own.

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    ---------- Post added at 09:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:38 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by zerocooldx View Post
    So hair beats Amaterasu and...um...borrowing a pair of sunglasses from the Aburame clan is going to beat Tsukuyomi? Don't be shy, i'm sure you can make that one work as well. You are on a roll. If only the rest of the shinobi world knew that the MS gets countered by fashion.

    BTW, shades won't work for Tsukuyomi, Sasuke v. Bee proved that, but you are not that familiar with the manga.
    Last edited by jdw; July 05, 2011 at 08:52 PM.

    Naruto War Tracker: 2 days of combat, 63 chapters, 40,000 alliance soldiers lost (50%). Significant alliance characters lost: 0

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  15. #1990
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    Even after a minute or so, the samurai wasn't burned, just his armor, and he showed no signs of being hurt. However, Itachi managed to burn a big hole in a toad's stomach, who breathes fire and has a fire resistant stomach, according to JIriaya, in less than a minute. It can be assumed that one needs to focus where his Amaterasu is in order for it to actually burn, like what Itachi did to the toad and to Sasuke's body (although that's questionable since we didn't see Itachi until after the Amaterasu went out and Sasuke was using kawarimi).

    Anyway, it's not like it matters. Jiraiya has the most fans, he's very likely to win.

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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    Sasuke knew Amaterasu was coming the moment Itachi used it, it's the only reason why he was able to avoid being hit for a short time.

    A pushed Sasuke to use his MS thus revealing he had such arsenal, which is when A purged into his V2 Cloak, had Sasuke not been pushed to use Susano prior to this, Raikage would have had likely been hit with Amaterasu.

    And Itachi used Amaterasu for a quite longer period of time than Sasuke, he burned through a 360 degree arc of forest.... wether it's his chakra efficiency or chakra pool, Itachi is on par with Sasuke in terms of the amount of times he can use his MS before running low.

    This was clearly shown in the manga.

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    Registered User 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member jdw's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by insid3rkill3r View Post
    Sasuke knew Amaterasu was coming the moment Itachi used it, it's the only reason why he was able to avoid being hit for a short time.

    A pushed Sasuke to use his MS thus revealing he had such arsenal, which is when A purged into his V2 Cloak, had Sasuke not been pushed to use Susano prior to this, Raikage would have had likely been hit with Amaterasu.

    And Itachi used Amaterasu for a quite longer period of time than Sasuke, he burned through a 360 degree arc of forest.... wether it's his chakra efficiency or chakra pool, Itachi is on par with Sasuke in terms of the amount of times he can use his MS before running low.

    This was clearly shown in the manga.
    Itachi didn't burn a 360 degree arc of a forest. The flame caught a tree and fire did what fire does, burn. It even continued after Itachi's death, unless he was shooting amaterasu in the forest from the grave. Or better yet, maybe he implanted Tensha Fuuin Amaterasu in squirrels.


    WTF?




    Last edited by jdw; July 05, 2011 at 09:31 PM.

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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jdw
    When Amaterasu hit that samurai, it did not burn through his armor instantly and fry him alive, it burned for a while, long enough for him to burn for a while and then escape unharmed, thanks to Kankurou and Temari. Jiraiya's hair jutsu are not just hair you find on the floor after getting a haircut, they are jutsu and have qualities of their own.

    You forget that the flames were moved back by wind so that chakra strings could be attached to the armor inorder to remove it. Jiraiya doesn't get to move his hair away so that he can cut the burning hair off and has not shown an ability to grow it faster than it Amaterasu burns. Metal armor>hair when it comes to enduring fire.

    As for "qualities" of Jiraiya's hair, none of those qualities are "fire proof" or "grows faster than Amaterasu can burn". Likewise, Gaara already had sand around him inorder to block Amaterasu so moving it an inch or two isn't half as impressive as you'd like it to be. Jiraiya's gotta grow his hair first, and the fact that his hair hasn't shown an ability to be stretch any significant length in the blink of an eye bodes well for the "all Jiraiya's hair is gonna disappear before he can stretch it far enough" strategy.

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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    That is the method of removal, but whatever. The point is that the flame did not reach the man, because if it had the wind would not have mattered. The armor didn't grow at all and he was fine. The armor wasn't "fire proof," as Amaterasu burns anything, even fire. Even if Gaara's method was not impressive to you, he is alive despite Amaterasu, which is the point, no? Not the distance his sand moved. But it doesn't matter if you were impressed really, Sasuke was. That is enough for me. If you think the fire will burn faster than Jiraiya's hair can grow, I respect your opinion but politely do not share it.

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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Even after a minute or so, the samurai wasn't burned, just his armor, and he showed no signs of being hurt. However, Itachi managed to burn a big hole in a toad's stomach, who breathes fire and has a fire resistant stomach, according to JIriaya, in less than a minute. It can be assumed that one needs to focus where his Amaterasu is in order for it to actually burn, like what Itachi did to the toad and to Sasuke's body (although that's questionable since we didn't see Itachi until after the Amaterasu went out and Sasuke was using kawarimi).

    Anyway, it's not like it matters. Jiraiya has the most fans, he's very likely to win.
    That seems to be your response to any outcome when things don't go your way. Its sad.
    It is not about just fans but rather how they interpret event and skills.
    Saying things like that is a sad cop-out

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